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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 14, 2020 20:47:14 GMT
Football is a fast moving ruthless business - once a player is of no use they're disposed of quite often - why shouldn't it be the same for those at the top? Fuller was fantastic for us in the prem, I don't think he'd be as good now. Scholes was with us on the rise and he's also presided over the demise. As CEO some of the decisions must have crossed his path. Covid is a convenient excuse for him. I'd be more forgiving if he could accept some responsibility for the situation we find ourselves in. How do you know what he accepts responsibility for and what he doesn't ? The owners are presumably happy about his performance in running the business they own. Without being a member of the Board, it's very difficult for the rest of us to judge. There have clearly been very significant mistakes in player recruitment and player contracts, and also in manager recruitment, but none of us on here knows who decided what (although Jon Coates clearly took the 'credit' for hiring Nathan Jones), but the working assumption must be that the player recruitment decisions were taken by the managers taking advice from the recruitment team. In the Macari/Moxey time fans got angry about what they perceived to be CEO "interference" in the football side. What evidence is there that TS has done what Moxey was accused of doing, given that both the owners and the CEO have said that we are a manager-led club ? And if he has, why have the owners allowed it ? You can't have your cake and eat it, by giving the CEO no credit for getting into the PL and the good years there, but blaming him for the relegation and our poor showing in the Championship last season. I don't think the Fuller analogy works because an athlete's ability inevitably declines in their 30s, which obviously doesn't apply to executives. Without repeating what I said above, I think there have been a lot of off-field things in which the Club's performance has been very good. And the counsel for Mr Scholes rests!
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 14, 2020 21:38:44 GMT
If the owners had sacked the chief executive instead of Mark Hughes do you think we would have been relegated Yes we would. The disaster signings of Imbula, Berahino, and Wimmer are all the fault of Hughes in my opinion. The owners and CEO were at fault for putting too much faith in his ability to spot and develop players. There will be a time when you get your wish and Scholes will leave his position. From behind the anonymity if your keyboard, tell me who would you like to step in and take his position, and more specifically, what would you like to see him/her do in the role. A chief executive with proven gravitas and leadership skills in a similar environment , who is capable of delivering the product the owners investment deserves on and off the pitch , who can create a culture of meritocracy and openness and achievement , who recognised this ownership can carry us way beyond where we’ve been to date m who is comfortable and is willing to engage with supporters, Who surrounds themselves with capable people of diverse skills and lets them manage , who recognises the principal of challenge and the limits of their own expertise , a moderniser and one who can be the credible face of stoke city in and outside the game . Southampton , Leicester , villa , wolves , Like a
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Post by bagnallboothen on Nov 14, 2020 21:40:58 GMT
This thread shows exactly why he's still in a job. It's worth 800k a year of billionaires money for their puppet to take the criticism.
For what it's worth, I don't blame him for the 150m wasted or the unsuccessful managerial appointments. But the off field things which he has to be responsible for should have seen him moved on years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2020 21:59:37 GMT
If the owners had sacked the chief executive instead of Mark Hughes do you think we would have been relegated Without doubt. Hughes had lost the plot and by all accounts the dressing room. He signed players with undoubted natural talent but very questionable attitude who weren't upto a fight at the wrong end of the table. I think he got bored and knew he had taken us as far as he could without massive investment, which the board weren't prepared to make.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2020 22:11:01 GMT
This thread shows exactly why he's still in a job. It's worth 800k a year of billionaires money for their puppet to take the criticism. For what it's worth, I don't blame him for the 150m wasted or the unsuccessful managerial appointments. But the off field things which he has to be responsible for should have seen him moved on years ago. Off field things like freezing season ticket prices for years, paying for away travel, enviable work in the local community etc.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 14, 2020 22:15:49 GMT
Yes we would. The disaster signings of Imbula, Berahino, and Wimmer are all the fault of Hughes in my opinion. The owners and CEO were at fault for putting too much faith in his ability to spot and develop players. There will be a time when you get your wish and Scholes will leave his position. From behind the anonymity if your keyboard, tell me who would you like to step in and take his position, and more specifically, what would you like to see him/her do in the role. A chief executive with proven gravitas and leadership skills in a similar environment , who is capable of delivering the product the owners investment deserves on and off the pitch , who can create a culture of meritocracy and openness and achievement , who recognised this ownership can carry us way beyond where we’ve been to date m who is comfortable and is willing to engage with supporters, Who surrounds themselves with capable people of diverse skills and lets them manage , who recognises the principal of challenge and the limits of their own expertise , a moderniser and one who can be the credible face of stoke city in and outside the game . Southampton , Leicester , villa , wolves , Like a What utter utter arse gravy. Where have you copied and pasted that from? You’ve just responded with a list of cliches and listed the four flavour of the month teams who were dreaming of where our current CEO helped to take us not long ago.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Nov 14, 2020 22:18:52 GMT
Football is a fast moving ruthless business - once a player is of no use they're disposed of quite often - why shouldn't it be the same for those at the top? Fuller was fantastic for us in the prem, I don't think he'd be as good now. Scholes was with us on the rise and he's also presided over the demise. As CEO some of the decisions must have crossed his path. Covid is a convenient excuse for him. I'd be more forgiving if he could accept some responsibility for the situation we find ourselves in. How do you know what he accepts responsibility for and what he doesn't ? The owners are presumably happy about his performance in running the business they own. Without being a member of the Board, it's very difficult for the rest of us to judge. There have clearly been very significant mistakes in player recruitment and player contracts, and also in manager recruitment, but none of us on here knows who decided what (although Jon Coates clearly took the 'credit' for hiring Nathan Jones), but the working assumption must be that the player recruitment decisions were taken by the managers taking advice from the recruitment team. In the Macari/Moxey time fans got angry about what they perceived to be CEO "interference" in the football side. What evidence is there that TS has done what Moxey was accused of doing, given that both the owners and the CEO have said that we are a manager-led club ? And if he has, why have the owners allowed it ? You can't have your cake and eat it, by giving the CEO no credit for getting into the PL and the good years there, but blaming him for the relegation and our poor showing in the Championship last season. I don't think the Fuller analogy works because an athlete's ability inevitably declines in their 30s, which obviously doesn't apply to executives. Without repeating what I said above, I think there have been a lot of off-field things in which the Club's performance has been very good. He's passed comments on before, remember "what left back problem?" If he's happy to comment on it then he must be aware of the situation. People seem happy to comment on his part in our promotion - why the double standards then when we talked about where we are today. You asked a question earlier, which I quoted you on - do you have an opinion on that?
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Post by liathroid on Nov 14, 2020 22:27:51 GMT
Yes we would. The disaster signings of Imbula, Berahino, and Wimmer are all the fault of Hughes in my opinion. The owners and CEO were at fault for putting too much faith in his ability to spot and develop players. There will be a time when you get your wish and Scholes will leave his position. From behind the anonymity if your keyboard, tell me who would you like to step in and take his position, and more specifically, what would you like to see him/her do in the role. A chief executive with proven gravitas and leadership skills in a similar environment , who is capable of delivering the product the owners investment deserves on and off the pitch , who can create a culture of meritocracy and openness and achievement , who recognised this ownership can carry us way beyond where we’ve been to date m who is comfortable and is willing to engage with supporters, Who surrounds themselves with capable people of diverse skills and lets them manage , who recognises the principal of challenge and the limits of their own expertise , a moderniser and one who can be the credible face of stoke city in and outside the game . Southampton , Leicester , villa , wolves , Like a years in which clubs were taken over Soton 2017 ,Leic 2010 ,Wolves 2016 and Villa 2018 ,STOKE are still owned by THE COATES FAMILY
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 14, 2020 22:32:25 GMT
A chief executive with proven gravitas and leadership skills in a similar environment , who is capable of delivering the product the owners investment deserves on and off the pitch , who can create a culture of meritocracy and openness and achievement , who recognised this ownership can carry us way beyond where we’ve been to date m who is comfortable and is willing to engage with supporters, Who surrounds themselves with capable people of diverse skills and lets them manage , who recognises the principal of challenge and the limits of their own expertise , a moderniser and one who can be the credible face of stoke city in and outside the game . Southampton , Leicester , villa , wolves , Like a years in which clubs were taken over Soton 2017 ,Leic 2010 ,Wolves 2016 and Villa 2018 ,STOKE are still owned by THE COATES FAMILY It makes no difference. The narrative has been set. The funny thing is, if the club gets promoted this year he will be spamming the board predicting relegation and impending doom anyway!
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 14, 2020 22:38:12 GMT
years in which clubs were taken over Soton 2017 ,Leic 2010 ,Wolves 2016 and Villa 2018 ,STOKE are still owned by THE COATES FAMILY It makes no difference. The narrative has been set. The funny thing is, if the club gets promoted this year he will be spamming the board predicting relegation and impending doom anyway! Assuming your right and the club gets promoted Rather depends on the backing O’Neil receives and more importantly. the way it’s executed . But I agree my narrative is set I think the business has failed for the last four years , on the field , longer off it , squandering billionaire backing unthinkable for clubs our size and I believe the senior executive director should have bern held responsible . You clearly don’t which I’d fair enough , I neither mock ,insult or deride you for holding that view .
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 14, 2020 22:45:46 GMT
It makes no difference. The narrative has been set. The funny thing is, if the club gets promoted this year he will be spamming the board predicting relegation and impending doom anyway! Assuming your right and the club gets promoted Rather depends on the backing O’Neil receives and more importantly. the way it’s executed . But I agree my narrative is set I think the business has failed for the last four years , on the field , longer off it , squandering billionaire backing unthinkable for clubs our size and I believe the senior executive director should have bern held responsible . You clearly don’t which I’d fair enough , I neither mock ,insult or deride you for holding that view . But you are judging our “failure” against levels that the club has never reached before. In over 150 years we’ve never finished in the top half of the top league for three years running. A tail off in performance was inevitable at some stage wasn’t it?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2020 22:47:28 GMT
It makes no difference. The narrative has been set. The funny thing is, if the club gets promoted this year he will be spamming the board predicting relegation and impending doom anyway! Assuming your right and the club gets promoted Rather depends on the backing O’Neil receives and more importantly. the way it’s executed . But I agree my narrative is set I think the business has failed for the last four years , on the field , longer off it , squandering billionaire backing unthinkable for clubs our size and I believe the senior executive director should have bern held responsible . You clearly don’t which I’d fair enough , I neither mock ,insult or deride you for holding that view . I ask again, why would billionaire backers still support someone so clearly incompetent (in your view) unless they themselves are incompetent?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 14, 2020 22:52:18 GMT
Assuming your right and the club gets promoted Rather depends on the backing O’Neil receives and more importantly. the way it’s executed . But I agree my narrative is set I think the business has failed for the last four years , on the field , longer off it , squandering billionaire backing unthinkable for clubs our size and I believe the senior executive director should have bern held responsible . You clearly don’t which I’d fair enough , I neither mock ,insult or deride you for holding that view . But you are judging our “failure” against levels that the club has never reached before. In over 150 years we’ve never finished in the top half of the top league for three years running. A tail off in performance was inevitable at some stage wasn’t it? Absolutely not the investment we were prepared to make suggests we should be crossing swords with Southampton and Leicester now not Barnsley and Rotherham .We are more than entitled to judge against the highest standards in the clubs history, we’ve never ever had such opportunity , we sat in the top 32 richest clubs in the world with owners prepared to invest more than a number of those above us and any in our heels , wolves , Sheffield United , palace our execution saw us collapse .
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Post by liathroid on Nov 14, 2020 22:54:32 GMT
years in which clubs were taken over Soton 2017 ,Leic 2010 ,Wolves 2016 and Villa 2018 ,STOKE are still owned by THE COATES FAMILY It makes no difference. The narrative has been set. The funny thing is, if the club gets promoted this year he will be spamming the board predicting relegation and impending doom anyway! according to Benji Scholes missed the peno against Brighton
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 14, 2020 22:56:05 GMT
Assuming your right and the club gets promoted Rather depends on the backing O’Neil receives and more importantly. the way it’s executed . But I agree my narrative is set I think the business has failed for the last four years , on the field , longer off it , squandering billionaire backing unthinkable for clubs our size and I believe the senior executive director should have bern held responsible . You clearly don’t which I’d fair enough , I neither mock ,insult or deride you for holding that view . I ask again, why would billionaire backers still support someone so clearly incompetent (in your view) unless they themselves are incompetent? They have proved themselves far from competent on a lot of football matters.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 14, 2020 22:59:39 GMT
But you are judging our “failure” against levels that the club has never reached before. In over 150 years we’ve never finished in the top half of the top league for three years running. A tail off in performance was inevitable at some stage wasn’t it? Absolutely not the investment we were prepared to make suggests we should be crossing swords with Southampton and Leicester now not Barnsley and Rotherham .We are more than entitled to judge against the highest standards in the clubs history, we’ve never ever had such opportunity , we sat in the top 32 richest clubs in the world with owners prepared to invest more than a number of those above us and any in our heels , wolves , Sheffield United , palace our execution saw us collapse . What makes you think that the picture won’t change again over the next few years and the clubs you have listed above won’t be behind us again? It’s the ebb and flow of football below the elite clubs I’m afraid.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 14, 2020 23:10:09 GMT
Absolutely not the investment we were prepared to make suggests we should be crossing swords with Southampton and Leicester now not Barnsley and Rotherham .We are more than entitled to judge against the highest standards in the clubs history, we’ve never ever had such opportunity , we sat in the top 32 richest clubs in the world with owners prepared to invest more than a number of those above us and any in our heels , wolves , Sheffield United , palace our execution saw us collapse . What makes you think that the picture won’t change again over the next few years and the clubs you have listed above won’t be behind us again? It’s the ebb and flow of football below the elite clubs I’m afraid. We shall see Leicester for example have cemented themselves at a far different level arguably wolves too
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2020 23:11:48 GMT
I ask again, why would billionaire backers still support someone so clearly incompetent (in your view) unless they themselves are incompetent? They have proved themselves far from competent on a lot of football matters. So direct your ire at them then. Scholes is not going to sack himself. They will know if our failings are down to their own bad judgements.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 14, 2020 23:15:20 GMT
What makes you think that the picture won’t change again over the next few years and the clubs you have listed above won’t be behind us again? It’s the ebb and flow of football below the elite clubs I’m afraid. We shall see Leicester for example have cemented themselves at a far different level arguably wolves too Unless you are one of the elite there’s no such thing as cementing a place in the top flight. Far bigger clubs than us will testify to that.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 14, 2020 23:31:45 GMT
We shall see Leicester for example have cemented themselves at a far different level arguably wolves too Unless you are one of the elite there’s no such thing as cementing a place in the top flight. Far bigger clubs than us will testify to that. It’s not about size we had and potentially still have an opportunity to be a real disruptor as Leicester have been , we’ve owners willing and capable and desiring to do just that we just need a manager and executive team to execute it
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 14, 2020 23:41:58 GMT
Unless you are one of the elite there’s no such thing as cementing a place in the top flight. Far bigger clubs than us will testify to that. It’s not about size we had and potentially still have an opportunity to be a real disruptor as Leicester have been , we’ve owners willing and capable and desiring to do just that we just need a manager and executive team to execute it I’m afraid it is. Aside from the Leicester miracle the biggest and richest clubs will always be at the top and the rest of us will trade places. History shows us this.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 14, 2020 23:44:29 GMT
One question. If he is as useless as you repeatedly say, why does Coates not sack him? I think the reason is Scholes did not agree with a lot of the ridiculous deals done under Hughes and Rowett but was tasked to make them happen. He is not a director of football, he is a glorified accountant and Coates' mouthpiece. That's a very pertinent question. Ultimately all the bucks stop with the Board i.e the owners. The CEO cannot keep himself in a job if the owners, who are not exactly inexperienced in such matters, decided that he isn't performing at the required level. We wouldn't want a CEO who is not qualified to do so taking football decisions i.e which players to sign and how much they are worth, and I don't think there is evidence that he has done so. He’s on the board.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 14, 2020 23:47:39 GMT
It appears that some people think it's OK for TS to do a shocking job because other clubs have failed. Very odd. What is more odd is people who know nothing about the inner workings of the club trying to pin our demise on Scholes. The owners clearly don't agree and blame the managers they appointed. It would have been much easier, cheaper and less disruptive to sack one CEO than four managers and all their staff. The owners have a lot to answer for too. They have been a massive part of the decline with their dismal decisions. And again now instead of club structure we seem to be relying on getting lucky with a manager. It’s an awful way to run a club in this day and age.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 14, 2020 23:48:35 GMT
It’s not about size we had and potentially still have an opportunity to be a real disruptor as Leicester have been , we’ve owners willing and capable and desiring to do just that we just need a manager and executive team to execute it I’m afraid it is. Aside from the Leicester miracle the biggest and richest clubs will always be at the top and the rest of us will trade places. History shows us this. m Last one from me but I honestly don’t think anyone still comprehend how much the family are prepared to invest indeed next time Shoukd the opportunity arise k think their resolve will be hardened not to let this happen again and the opportunity slip away Hughes for all his faults had the right players in his sights and they slipped away
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 14, 2020 23:49:54 GMT
Assuming your right and the club gets promoted Rather depends on the backing O’Neil receives and more importantly. the way it’s executed . But I agree my narrative is set I think the business has failed for the last four years , on the field , longer off it , squandering billionaire backing unthinkable for clubs our size and I believe the senior executive director should have bern held responsible . You clearly don’t which I’d fair enough , I neither mock ,insult or deride you for holding that view . I ask again, why would billionaire backers still support someone so clearly incompetent (in your view) unless they themselves are incompetent? They are incompetent.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 14, 2020 23:51:04 GMT
I ask again, why would billionaire backers still support someone so clearly incompetent (in your view) unless they themselves are incompetent? They are incompetent. We’d be completely and utterly fucked without them
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 14, 2020 23:56:36 GMT
We’d be completely and utterly fucked without them We would but they’re still incompetent and still haven’t learned from their mistakes. Putting all their eggs in the MON basket and not actually changing the way club operates. MON bringing his people etc. It should be the other way around.
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Post by bagnallboothen on Nov 15, 2020 20:03:24 GMT
Unless you are one of the elite there’s no such thing as cementing a place in the top flight. Far bigger clubs than us will testify to that. It’s not about size we had and potentially still have an opportunity to be a real disruptor as Leicester have been , we’ve owners willing and capable and desiring to do just that we just need a manager and executive team to execute it Who's appointing them?
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Post by lordb on Nov 15, 2020 20:17:46 GMT
What is more odd is people who know nothing about the inner workings of the club trying to pin our demise on Scholes. The owners clearly don't agree and blame the managers they appointed. It would have been much easier, cheaper and less disruptive to sack one CEO than four managers and all their staff. The owners have a lot to answer for too. They have been a massive part of the decline with their dismal decisions. And again now instead of club structure we seem to be relying on getting lucky with a manager. It’s an awful way to run a club in this day and age. Understood Thing is we have got lucky. Suspect he feels the same way about Stoke too.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 15, 2020 21:26:51 GMT
The owners have a lot to answer for too. They have been a massive part of the decline with their dismal decisions. And again now instead of club structure we seem to be relying on getting lucky with a manager. It’s an awful way to run a club in this day and age. Understood Thing is we have got lucky. Suspect he feels the same way about Stoke too. But we need to make sure unlike with TP and Hughes we futureproof. Appointing MON’s man for recruitment was a poor start.
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