|
Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 5:43:35 GMT
That's the problem with you, Bayern, you think you have the answer all the time. As you might have noticed a lot of people on this board disagree with you, you also think your opinion counts more than managers at the highest level! Has it ever occured to you that you might be the one to be wrong?? In fact I'm not very impressed by your assessment of our players, but sometimes I might be wrong anyhow! At least I have the ability to go back and see that, yes, I was wrong here, but have you got that in you, Bayern!? Because you seem to think you have the answer to everything, but in fact your assessment isn't that impressive time after time in many people's opinion. This doesn't seem to stop you anyhow, because you almost seem obsessed by being right, even if everything else seems to say you're wrong! Get down from your high horse and stop going on forever as your opinion counts more than others. I don't know if you have any badges in football, but you seem determined you know best whatever it is football related! If you don’t think Shawcross is decent on the ball then you are wrong. It’s as simple as that. Shawcross is one of the best defenders that has played for the club in recent years. Sadly, one of the worst on the ball too. A chipped, hopeful ball forward is all he has.
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on Sept 19, 2020 6:00:43 GMT
Surely the fee would be paid on weekly terms We'd have to pass a credit check first from that well known outfit FFP.
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on Sept 19, 2020 6:03:21 GMT
If you don’t think Shawcross is decent on the ball then you are wrong. It’s as simple as that. Shawcross is one of the best defenders that has played for the club in recent years. Sadly, one of the worst on the ball too. A chipped, hopeful ball forward is all he has. More often than not reaching it's target with it bouncing off the recipients knee!
|
|
|
Post by bgreen13 on Sept 19, 2020 9:07:56 GMT
Shawcross was/is not good on the ball.
Excellent blood and thunder defender.
|
|
|
Post by tomcmod on Sept 19, 2020 10:21:10 GMT
I rarely agree with Bayern but he is right on this. Shawcross is very underrated on the ball, his long and short passing are good. I've also seen him do more accurate cross field balls to our player than Charlie Adam did and he is lauded for it. One of the main ones I remember is him switching it across to Arnie, you don't put it on Arnie's toe that many times by accident.
|
|
|
Post by mrpickles on Sept 19, 2020 10:39:28 GMT
Shawcross is more than capable with the ball at his feet, always has been. He was under instruction to knock it long at every opportunity under Pulis, but he did that superbly well, and there was a reason that HE was the centre half trusted to do that.
On the rare occasion he was able to show his 'footballing' ability, he showed that he was actually pretty bloody good. He was never going to be a defender who would step out of defence with the ball but his technical ability is as underrated as his pace is (was).
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 19, 2020 10:42:40 GMT
Can anyone produce the stats on Shawcross's passing accuracy/completion? I don't recall it being too bad at all.
OK he didn't have the ability to produce the killer pass that some of the best players have - but (probably because of that) he rarely attempted passes which were beyond him. He was a defender first and foremost who kept his short passes simple but was prepared to mix it up with a few long forward punts - obviously under orders from TP.
|
|
|
Post by bgreen13 on Sept 19, 2020 10:49:09 GMT
Can anyone produce the stats on Shawcross's passing accuracy/completion? I don't recall it being too bad at all. OK he didn't have the ability to produce the killer pass that some of the best players have - but (probably because of that) he rarely attempted passes which were beyond him. He was a defender first and foremost who kept his short passes simple but was prepared to mix it up with a few long forward punts - obviously under orders from TP. Yes he's more than adequate but he's not 'good on the ball', he's not one of these ball playing defenders
|
|
|
Post by reddipotter on Sept 19, 2020 10:59:23 GMT
Can anyone produce the stats on Shawcross's passing accuracy/completion? I don't recall it being too bad at all. OK he didn't have the ability to produce the killer pass that some of the best players have - but (probably because of that) he rarely attempted passes which were beyond him. He was a defender first and foremost who kept his short passes simple but was prepared to mix it up with a few long forward punts - obviously under orders from TP. Yes he's more than adequate but he's not 'good on the ball', he's not one of these ball playing defenders The trouble is that most 'ball playing defenders' can't actually defend.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 19, 2020 11:11:07 GMT
If you don’t think Shawcross is decent on the ball then you are wrong. It’s as simple as that. Shawcross is one of the best defenders that has played for the club in recent years. Sadly, one of the worst on the ball too. A chipped, hopeful ball forward is all he has. I thought this nonsense was left behind in 2015?
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 19, 2020 11:24:02 GMT
Can anyone produce the stats on Shawcross's passing accuracy/completion? I don't recall it being too bad at all. OK he didn't have the ability to produce the killer pass that some of the best players have - but (probably because of that) he rarely attempted passes which were beyond him. He was a defender first and foremost who kept his short passes simple but was prepared to mix it up with a few long forward punts - obviously under orders from TP. You don't recall it being too bad because it wasn't. It's not worth bothering with those who criticise Ryan's game when he was at his best. He didn't give a kick to many of the best strikers in the country. The only one to consistently trouble him was Suarez.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Sept 19, 2020 11:25:21 GMT
Can anyone produce the stats on Shawcross's passing accuracy/completion? I don't recall it being too bad at all. OK he didn't have the ability to produce the killer pass that some of the best players have - but (probably because of that) he rarely attempted passes which were beyond him. He was a defender first and foremost who kept his short passes simple but was prepared to mix it up with a few long forward punts - obviously under orders from TP. You don't recall it being too bad because it wasn't. It's not worth bothering with those who criticise Ryan's game when he was at his best. He didn't give a kick to many of the best strikers in the country. The only one to consistently trouble him was Suarez. Pelle at Southampton dominated him as well, shocking because it was so rare.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 19, 2020 11:27:55 GMT
You don't recall it being too bad because it wasn't. It's not worth bothering with those who criticise Ryan's game when he was at his best. He didn't give a kick to many of the best strikers in the country. The only one to consistently trouble him was Suarez. Pelle at Southampton dominated him as well, shocking because it was so rare. Maybe in 1 game. Whenever someone had a good game against us/ryan and won the battle on the day, the next time he always responded with a superb performance. Only Suarez consistently got the better of him in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Sept 19, 2020 11:33:43 GMT
Pelle at Southampton dominated him as well, shocking because it was so rare. Maybe in 1 game. Whenever someone had a good game against us/ryan and won the battle on the day, the next time he always responded with a superb performance. Only Suarez consistently got the better of him in my opinion. No he did it in a few games However no one else did apart from Suarez as you say Aguero spent a few games in Ryan's back pocket
|
|
|
Post by likemondays on Sept 19, 2020 11:34:42 GMT
Pelle at Southampton dominated him as well, shocking because it was so rare. Maybe in 1 game. Whenever someone had a good game against us/ryan and won the battle on the day, the next time he always responded with a superb performance. Only Suarez consistently got the better of him in my opinion. Don’t forget Huth. I saw him put Suarez in his pocket at Anfield. So much so,in the second half he did that ridiculous throwing himself on the floor dive.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 19, 2020 11:39:34 GMT
Maybe in 1 game. Whenever someone had a good game against us/ryan and won the battle on the day, the next time he always responded with a superb performance. Only Suarez consistently got the better of him in my opinion. Don’t forget Huth. I saw him put Suarez in his pocket at Anfield. So much so, in the second half he did that ridiculous throwing himself on the floor dive.That was one of the funniest things I ever saw on a pitch. There were three Stoke players in a triangle with Suarez in the middle. Each Stoke player was at least a metre from him when he hit the deck in front of the Kop - even the ref had a laugh - although he bottled out and didn't book him. Happy days.
|
|
|
Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Sept 19, 2020 11:40:38 GMT
Can anyone produce the stats on Shawcross's passing accuracy/completion? I don't recall it being too bad at all. OK he didn't have the ability to produce the killer pass that some of the best players have - but (probably because of that) he rarely attempted passes which were beyond him. He was a defender first and foremost who kept his short passes simple but was prepared to mix it up with a few long forward punts - obviously under orders from TP. You don't recall it being too bad because it wasn't. It's not worth bothering with those who criticise Ryan's game when he was at his best. He didn't give a kick to many of the best strikers in the country. The only one to consistently trouble him was Suarez. This. And when Cahill threw him under the bus against Sweden and Ibrahimovic, Suarez ripped every prem defender a new one in his pomp. Some supporters have veey short bloody memories concerning Ryan.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 19, 2020 13:01:36 GMT
You don't recall it being too bad because it wasn't. It's not worth bothering with those who criticise Ryan's game when he was at his best. He didn't give a kick to many of the best strikers in the country. The only one to consistently trouble him was Suarez. This. And when Cahill threw him under the bus against Sweden and Ibrahimovic, Suarez ripped every prem defender a new one in his pomp. Some supporters have veey short bloody memories concerning Ryan. Funnily enough, his performance against zlatan at old Trafford (1-1) was arguably his best ever performance in a stoke shirt. He was clearly determined to redeem himself and he did just that. At his best, he was magnificent. Pointless even arguing with people who can't see that.
|
|
|
Post by tachyon on Sept 19, 2020 13:56:36 GMT
Can anyone produce the stats on Shawcross's passing accuracy/completion? I don't recall it being too bad at all. OK he didn't have the ability to produce the killer pass that some of the best players have - but (probably because of that) he rarely attempted passes which were beyond him. He was a defender first and foremost who kept his short passes simple but was prepared to mix it up with a few long forward punts - obviously under orders from TP. Championship season 2018/19, on average, central defenders added 0.4 xG per 100 pass attempts and turned over 0.7 xG per 100 pass attempts. RS's numbers came in at almost exactly those averages. He was neither outstanding nor terrible. Best combination of creativity & security via passes from central defence that season was Mike van der Hoorn. Most wayward combo of creativity/turnovers with at least 300 attempts was Michael Ihiekwe. Most creative, if profligate, was Charlie Mulgrew Least creative was Cameron Carter-Vickers at Swansea.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 19, 2020 14:03:29 GMT
Can anyone produce the stats on Shawcross's passing accuracy/completion? I don't recall it being too bad at all. OK he didn't have the ability to produce the killer pass that some of the best players have - but (probably because of that) he rarely attempted passes which were beyond him. He was a defender first and foremost who kept his short passes simple but was prepared to mix it up with a few long forward punts - obviously under orders from TP. Championship season 2018/19, on average, central defenders added 0.4 xG per 100 pass attempts and turned over 0.7 xG per 100 pass attempts. RS's numbers came in at almost exactly those averages. He was neither outstanding nor terrible. Best combination of creativity & security via passes from central defence that season was Mike van der Hoorn. Most wayward combo of creativity/turnovers with at least 300 attempts was Michael Ihiekwe. Most creative, if profligate, was Charlie Mulgrew Least creative was Cameron Carter-Vickers at Swansea.
Carter-Vickers' lack of creativity comes as no surprise! Cheers for the stats.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Sept 19, 2020 14:48:22 GMT
Short memories on this thread. Shawcross was decent on the ball, and better than average for a big man. He also had the ability to carry the ball into the opposite half on rare occasions. He would not have been at Man U if he couldn't play with the ball. When Hughes arrived, he wanted defenders to play with the ball more instead of "Pulis ball". He kept Shawcross and let Huth go.
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Sept 19, 2020 14:58:02 GMT
Can anyone produce the stats on Shawcross's passing accuracy/completion? I don't recall it being too bad at all. OK he didn't have the ability to produce the killer pass that some of the best players have - but (probably because of that) he rarely attempted passes which were beyond him. He was a defender first and foremost who kept his short passes simple but was prepared to mix it up with a few long forward punts - obviously under orders from TP. I think he way too often chose just to get the ball out of play instead of trying to pass it to a team mate. Not saying he has the worst long ball in him, but always chose to play it out of the pitch when I would say he could have kept it in play by a backpass or been a bit more cold blooded. Very good defender though. I actually think his ability on the ball was the reason why none of the big clubs came in for him.
|
|
|
Post by cheadlestokie on Sept 19, 2020 14:58:46 GMT
The fact is he wasn’t allowed to be better on the ball. Remember he was a Pulis centre half.
|
|
|
Post by boydcrowder on Sept 19, 2020 14:59:29 GMT
The problem is that everyone is thinking of Shawcross's ability with the ball at a Premier League level against top level players as that's where the vast majority of his appearances have been. I think we can probably file him under 'steady but unspectacular' at that level. However comparing his ability on the ball with Championship defenders shows him in a much more favourable light, we just haven't had the chance to see him play under a proper manager with an actual system for any stretch for him to be able to show it.
Compared to Danny Batth, Shawcross looks like Franco Baresi with the ball at his feet.
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Sept 19, 2020 15:00:48 GMT
This. And when Cahill threw him under the bus against Sweden and Ibrahimovic, Suarez ripped every prem defender a new one in his pomp. Some supporters have veey short bloody memories concerning Ryan. Funnily enough, his performance against zlatan at old Trafford (1-1) was arguably his best ever performance in a stoke shirt. He was clearly determined to redeem himself and he did just that. At his best, he was magnificent. Pointless even arguing with people who can't see that. Everybody here agree he was a good defender, but he wasn't very good on the ball! Just average I'd say!
|
|
|
Post by BuzzB on Sept 19, 2020 15:05:06 GMT
So, this right back.................
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 19, 2020 15:50:45 GMT
Funnily enough, his performance against zlatan at old Trafford (1-1) was arguably his best ever performance in a stoke shirt. He was clearly determined to redeem himself and he did just that. At his best, he was magnificent. Pointless even arguing with people who can't see that. Everybody here agree he was a good defender, but he wasn't very good on the ball! Just average I'd say! I don't agree at all. Not in the slightest
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Sept 19, 2020 16:04:50 GMT
So, this right back................. Nice try!
|
|
|
Post by mattythestokie on Sept 19, 2020 16:13:40 GMT
Can anyone produce the stats on Shawcross's passing accuracy/completion? I don't recall it being too bad at all. OK he didn't have the ability to produce the killer pass that some of the best players have - but (probably because of that) he rarely attempted passes which were beyond him. He was a defender first and foremost who kept his short passes simple but was prepared to mix it up with a few long forward punts - obviously under orders from TP. You don't recall it being too bad because it wasn't. It's not worth bothering with those who criticise Ryan's game when he was at his best. He didn't give a kick to many of the best strikers in the country. The only one to consistently trouble him was Suarez. Think Crouchie troubled him in the few games he played against him. Remember Shawcross saying in an interview that he was one of the tougher strikers he came up against. Shawcross Souttar and Collins in a back 3 is enough to give me an erection so I’m all for it.
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Sept 19, 2020 16:18:32 GMT
Everybody here agree he was a good defender, but he wasn't very good on the ball! Just average I'd say! I don't agree at all. Not in the slightest You don't think Shawcross has been a great defender???
|
|