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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 16, 2020 22:59:51 GMT
At last the Whelan replacement Threads like this make me sure he's a Whelan replacement. I love how Whelan’s reputation has got better since he left. I think it’s completely wrong btw. He was overall good for us. But he was inconsistent which is fine but he needed replacing for a reason.
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Mikel
Sept 16, 2020 23:12:12 GMT
Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Sept 16, 2020 23:12:12 GMT
Threads like this make me sure he's a Whelan replacement. I love how Whelan’s reputation has got better since he left. I think it’s completely wrong btw. He was overall good for us. But he was inconsistent which is fine but he needed replacing for a reason. The same's happened with a few players, particularly the battling kind like Walters, Whelan and Bardsley - none who I thought were appreciated as much as they should have been during their time at Stoke. People don't know what we've got till it's gone. Oddly, some players reputations have got worse, like Affelay and Cameron (both excellent during the Stokealona times). Maybe they stayed around too long, but there are probably other examples that didn't.
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Post by datguy on Sept 16, 2020 23:16:48 GMT
I love how Whelan’s reputation has got better since he left. I think it’s completely wrong btw. He was overall good for us. But he was inconsistent which is fine but he needed replacing for a reason. The same's happened with a few players, particularly the battling kind like Walters, Whelan and Bardsley - none who I thought were appreciated as much as they should have been during their time at Stoke. People don't know what we've got till it's gone. Oddly, some players reputations have got worse, like Affelay and Cameron (both excellent during the Stokealona times). Maybe they stayed around too long, but there are probably other examples that didn't. Personally have a newfound respect and admiration for Afellay after finding out he got banned from Clayton Wood for calling Geoff Cameron shit. But yes, the players you’ve named were probably all underrated. The decision to move them on though wasn’t necessarily the wrong decision though. We just never replaced them in the way we should. Especially Whelan. Solid player but he couldn’t do it anymore. A player 10-12 years younger would’ve been ideal but we ended up with Fletcher... There’s an argument to suggest getting rid of Bardsley in favour of Glen Johnson was the wrong decision but ultimately they both should’ve gone.
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Mikel
Sept 16, 2020 23:22:28 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 16, 2020 23:22:28 GMT
I love how Whelan’s reputation has got better since he left. I think it’s completely wrong btw. He was overall good for us. But he was inconsistent which is fine but he needed replacing for a reason. The same's happened with a few players, particularly the battling kind like Walters, Whelan and Bardsley - none who I thought were appreciated as much as they should have been during their time at Stoke. People don't know what we've got till it's gone. Oddly, some players reputations have got worse, like Affelay and Cameron (both excellent during the Stokealona times). Maybe they stayed around too long, but there are probably other examples that didn't. I think Whelan when he was here was generally appreciated correctly. We always needed better because he was so damn inconsistent. He could look good one game and look total shit the next and not find a Stoke player. Bardsley once Johnson legs had gone definitely got more valued. Walters was always loved by most. I still can’t abide him. There was Afellay stuff recently and he was gushed about. Cameron left pretty acrimoniously didn’t he. But he was always dogshit 😂 and throughout his time I think people generally were grateful for him trying but wanted an actual right back.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Sept 16, 2020 23:32:14 GMT
The same's happened with a few players, particularly the battling kind like Walters, Whelan and Bardsley - none who I thought were appreciated as much as they should have been during their time at Stoke. People don't know what we've got till it's gone. Oddly, some players reputations have got worse, like Affelay and Cameron (both excellent during the Stokealona times). Maybe they stayed around too long, but there are probably other examples that didn't. Personally have a newfound respect and admiration for Afellay after finding out he got banned from Clayton Wood for calling Geoff Cameron shit. But yes, the players you’ve named were probably all underrated. The decision to move them on though wasn’t necessarily the wrong decision though. We just never replaced them in the way we should. Especially Whelan. Solid player but he couldn’t do it anymore. A player 10-12 years younger would’ve been ideal but we ended up with Fletcher... There’s an argument to suggest getting rid of Bardsley in favour of Glen Johnson was the wrong decision but ultimately they both should’ve gone. I still think Whelan was good enough, even if he only started half the games a season. I was excited about Fletcher's signing but he didn't turn out to be a good replacement. Bardsley's proving he's still a decent Premier League player. Johnson was excellent at times, especially in his first season. Not much was right about the relegation season, so I wouldn't single Johnson out as a bad re-signing. His last season was odd, as I remember him looking excellent in a couple of games but past it in most of the others. The same's happened with a few players, particularly the battling kind like Walters, Whelan and Bardsley - none who I thought were appreciated as much as they should have been during their time at Stoke. People don't know what we've got till it's gone. Oddly, some players reputations have got worse, like Affelay and Cameron (both excellent during the Stokealona times). Maybe they stayed around too long, but there are probably other examples that didn't. I think Whelan when he was here was generally appreciated correctly. We always needed better because he was so damn inconsistent. He could look good one game and look total shit the next and not find a Stoke player. Bardsley once Johnson legs had gone definitely got more valued. Walters was always loved by most. I still can’t abide him. There was Afellay stuff recently and he was gushed about. Cameron left pretty acrimoniously didn’t he. But he was always dogshit 😂 and throughout his time I think people generally were grateful for him trying but wanted an actual right back. Walters and Whelan were slated on here regularly when they were here. I suppose I've seen Affelay equally praised and slated recently, though my general impression is overall he's not respected for being as good as he was. I agree on that last part about Cameron, but I still think many have forgotten he was very good and even seemingly pivotal at times in the best Stoke team (football-wise) I've seen. However, I don't consider the Oatcake a representative view of Stoke fans.
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Mikel
Sept 16, 2020 23:38:29 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 16, 2020 23:38:29 GMT
Personally have a newfound respect and admiration for Afellay after finding out he got banned from Clayton Wood for calling Geoff Cameron shit. But yes, the players you’ve named were probably all underrated. The decision to move them on though wasn’t necessarily the wrong decision though. We just never replaced them in the way we should. Especially Whelan. Solid player but he couldn’t do it anymore. A player 10-12 years younger would’ve been ideal but we ended up with Fletcher... There’s an argument to suggest getting rid of Bardsley in favour of Glen Johnson was the wrong decision but ultimately they both should’ve gone. I still think Whelan was good enough, even if he only started half the games a season. I was excited about Fletcher's signing but he didn't turn out to be a good replacement. Bardsley's proving he's still a decent Premier League player. Johnson was excellent at times, especially in his first season. Not much was right about the relegation season, so I wouldn't single Johnson out as a bad re-signing. His last season was odd, as I remember him looking excellent in a couple of games but past it in most of the others. I think Whelan when he was here was generally appreciated correctly. We always needed better because he was so damn inconsistent. He could look good one game and look total shit the next and not find a Stoke player. Bardsley once Johnson legs had gone definitely got more valued. Walters was always loved by most. I still can’t abide him. There was Afellay stuff recently and he was gushed about. Cameron left pretty acrimoniously didn’t he. But he was always dogshit 😂 and throughout his time I think people generally were grateful for him trying but wanted an actual right back. Walters and Whelan were slated on here regularly when they were here. I suppose I've seen Affelay equally praised and slated recently, though my general impression is overall he's not respected for being as good as he was. I agree on that last part about Cameron, but I still think many have forgotten he was very good and even seemingly pivotal at times in the best Stoke team (football-wise) I've seen. However, I don't consider the Oatcake a representative view of Stoke fans. They were slated but overall I think more liked then than not 70/30 at least. I will continue to slag Walters for instance 😂again another poor footballer that was overplayed and loved because he ran a lot. I actually think he had some talent but generally for us he was playing on injections and was overtired and wasn’t allowed to show that quality. And Whelan was no where near good enough to be of any help in the relegation season and was let go at exactly the right time. Cameron pivotal? How? He couldn’t play football. He was utter utter dogshit.
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Post by PotterLog on Sept 17, 2020 0:53:52 GMT
Whelo in his prime would have probably worked his way back into the team and seen off Mikel just like he saw off all the other Whelan replacements we signed down the years.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 4:49:45 GMT
Whelo in his prime would have probably worked his way back into the team and seen off Mikel just like he saw off all the other Whelan replacements we signed down the years. I very much doubt that and I was always a member of the staunchest Whelo supporters. But Mikel's a different class. Plus he would have been in his prime years too.
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Mikel
Sept 17, 2020 7:16:10 GMT
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Post by hooftastic on Sept 17, 2020 7:16:10 GMT
A lot of rewriting history in here. Whelan was good, every 3 or 4 games or so.
As with most, the problem wasn't needing a replacement but the replacements themselves.
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Mikel
Sept 17, 2020 7:23:26 GMT
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Post by femark on Sept 17, 2020 7:23:26 GMT
Threads like this make me sure he's a Whelan replacement. I love how Whelan’s reputation has got better since he left. I think it’s completely wrong btw. He was overall good for us. But he was inconsistent which is fine but he needed replacing for a reason. I think his reputation got better because we never replaced him properly. Players like Whelan will always be under appreciated because they do the dirty work and don’t tend to stand out. People notice the attacking skilful midfielders more.
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Post by nott1 on Sept 17, 2020 7:41:05 GMT
Never understood the Whelan love in myself.... a very ordinary, unexciting player, shuffling around like a crab with a sore leg, who had the odd moment here and there but nowhere near capable of being better than the level Mikel has shown over many years.
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Mikel
Sept 17, 2020 7:54:40 GMT
Post by partickpotter on Sept 17, 2020 7:54:40 GMT
The same's happened with a few players, particularly the battling kind like Walters, Whelan and Bardsley - none who I thought were appreciated as much as they should have been during their time at Stoke. People don't know what we've got till it's gone. Oddly, some players reputations have got worse, like Affelay and Cameron (both excellent during the Stokealona times). Maybe they stayed around too long, but there are probably other examples that didn't. Personally have a newfound respect and admiration for Afellay after finding out he got banned from Clayton Wood for calling Geoff Cameron shit. But yes, the players you’ve named were probably all underrated. The decision to move them on though wasn’t necessarily the wrong decision though. We just never replaced them in the way we should. Especially Whelan. Solid player but he couldn’t do it anymore. A player 10-12 years younger would’ve been ideal but we ended up with Fletcher... There’s an argument to suggest getting rid of Bardsley in favour of Glen Johnson was the wrong decision but ultimately they both should’ve gone. Weird to see Bardsley named alongside Whelan and Walters as players we may or not appreciate. Whelan and Walters were mainstays of our club for many years; 10 years, 300+ games, 7 years and not far short of 300 games respectively. They reached their peak at Stoke. Bardsley, on the other hand, was here late in his career, on the way down and played just 50 games. I hardly think of him as a Stoke player. Just one of many who pass through our gates without leaving much of a mark.
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Post by foxysgloves on Sept 17, 2020 8:00:27 GMT
I still think Whelan was good enough, even if he only started half the games a season. I was excited about Fletcher's signing but he didn't turn out to be a good replacement. Bardsley's proving he's still a decent Premier League player. Johnson was excellent at times, especially in his first season. Not much was right about the relegation season, so I wouldn't single Johnson out as a bad re-signing. His last season was odd, as I remember him looking excellent in a couple of games but past it in most of the others. Walters and Whelan were slated on here regularly when they were here. I suppose I've seen Affelay equally praised and slated recently, though my general impression is overall he's not respected for being as good as he was. I agree on that last part about Cameron, but I still think many have forgotten he was very good and even seemingly pivotal at times in the best Stoke team (football-wise) I've seen. However, I don't consider the Oatcake a representative view of Stoke fans. They were slated but overall I think more liked then than not 70/30 at least. I will continue to slag Walters for instance 😂again another poor footballer that was overplayed and loved because he ran a lot. I actually think he had some talent but generally for us he was playing on injections and was overtired and wasn’t allowed to show that quality. And Whelan was no where near good enough to be of any help in the relegation season and was let go at exactly the right time. Cameron pivotal? How? He couldn’t play football. He was utter utter dogshit. More Walters drivel. A poor footballer? Hmmmmm. I remember how poor he looked tearing David Luiz a new one before cracking home a glorious finish. Or when he owned Bolton in the FA Cup Semi scoring arguably Stoke’s best ever Wembley goal. Inconsistent I’ll give you. At a push. But a poor footballer? Drivel.
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Mikel
Sept 17, 2020 8:12:28 GMT
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nott1 likes this
Post by chiswickpotter on Sept 17, 2020 8:12:28 GMT
Whelan was average at best. No pace, limited ability to pass forward and inconsistent. Spurs away when they ripped us apart in the first half was the low point. And Bardsley was a poor full back, the problem was not selling him but the failure to sign a replacement as we decided on wing backs.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 17, 2020 8:14:14 GMT
Personally have a newfound respect and admiration for Afellay after finding out he got banned from Clayton Wood for calling Geoff Cameron shit. But yes, the players you’ve named were probably all underrated. The decision to move them on though wasn’t necessarily the wrong decision though. We just never replaced them in the way we should. Especially Whelan. Solid player but he couldn’t do it anymore. A player 10-12 years younger would’ve been ideal but we ended up with Fletcher... There’s an argument to suggest getting rid of Bardsley in favour of Glen Johnson was the wrong decision but ultimately they both should’ve gone. Weird to see Bardsley named alongside Whelan and Walters as players we may or not appreciate. Whelan and Walters were mainstays of our club for many years; 10 years, 300+ games, 7 years and not far short of 300 games respectively. They reached their peak at Stoke. Bardsley, on the other hand, was here late in his career, on the way down and played just 50 games. I hardly think of him as a Stoke player. Just one of many who pass through our gates without leaving much of a mark. I think the fact that Bardsley is still playing Premier League football 3 years after he left us and 2 years after we got relegated, shows that he was/is a better player than many fans (or the Manager) gave him credit for. I think Bardsley was a decent full back - not a world beater but decent. One problem he faced was that his mistakes (and like most players he made mistakes) seemed to get pounced on by the manager and by some fans and he would be frozen out of the side for a while afterwards. Other players seemed to make mistakes and not pay such a high penalty. I'm not saying we'd have survived if we had not let him go but I will say we have never satisfactorily replaced him in the years since his departure - certainly letting Bardlsley go and retaining Johnson, who was by then a considerably less effective player, was a travesty.
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Post by questionable on Sept 17, 2020 8:18:05 GMT
We shouldn’t forget the off field influence that Whelan had, he wasn’t frightened to voice his opinion on and off the field. You could see that the players responded to him, yes he lacked ability with a football but Christ he was a cracking leader and a fantastic signing, somehow we’ve spent a fortune on absolute dross trying to replace his spirit and influence on the pitch.
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Mikel
Sept 17, 2020 8:21:37 GMT
Post by pmjh on Sept 17, 2020 8:21:37 GMT
Whelan was pretty average at the start. He then had a couple of seasons where he should have been the first name on the team sheet. we let him go at the right time, just never adequately replaced him. Cameron suffered from his versatility and being played out of position at right back. Ironically I think a younger fitter Cameron could have prospered in this squad as a defensive midfielder or RCB in a back 3. Walters was a his best when at centre forward or as a no 10 who dropped in to help the Midfield when defending. He wasn't half as effective on the wing. Affeley I thought was a superb player. For the short time he was fit he was the best, most consistent player in the team. Unfortunately injuries caught up with him again.
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Post by foxysgloves on Sept 17, 2020 8:41:32 GMT
Whelan was average at best. No pace, limited ability to pass forward and inconsistent. Spurs away when they ripped us apart in the first half was the low point. And Bardsley was a poor full back, the problem was not selling him but the failure to sign a replacement as we decided on wing backs. Average at best? But an integral part of our most successful team in the modern era. An average Premier League player. Agreed. But very much a Premier League player. Always amazes me how quick some are to belittle the likes of Walters and Whelan. The dedication and determination they showed for the club somehow becomes a stick to beat them with. Weird shit.
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Mikel
Sept 17, 2020 10:25:32 GMT
Post by iglugluk on Sept 17, 2020 10:25:32 GMT
Mikel is definitely a class player, of that there is no doubt, and we've needed a player to replace Whelan since he was let go. We certainly dont have another player on the books, in that position, anywhere near his level if he gets his fitness up to the level the manager wants. If he's committed he will be a very good signing as far as I'm concerned. What we were trying to do with Fletcher, except his legs were gone.
In respect to Whelan ( and Walters for that matter ) they were valuable assets because of their respective attitudes and total commitment rather than their skill levels, which were journeyman Premier League level. Whelan was reliable in the main but used to regularly slow down play by passing sideways and backwards so if Mikel already looks a significantly better passer of the ball and if he keeps getting better that bodes very well for a couple of seasons or so, I reckon.
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Sept 17, 2020 10:39:47 GMT
Amazing to think Whelo was once an attacking midfielder with an eye for goal!
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Mikel
Sept 17, 2020 10:50:10 GMT
Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 17, 2020 10:50:10 GMT
Amazing to think Whelo was once an attacking midfielder with an eye for goal! Odd how his ability to score from long range almost completely deserted him in his later years. Scored some great goals in our early days in the Prem though. Villa away and Spurs away spring to mind. Happy days!
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Post by PotterLog on Sept 17, 2020 11:04:57 GMT
Amazing to think Whelo was once an attacking midfielder with an eye for goal! I always remember how when we signed him his reputation was one of a progressive young player with a good range of passing. I also think he probably has TP to thank for changing his game and confining him to the cage because there’s no chance he would have had a decade in the PL trying to ply his trade as a more advanced midfielder.
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Post by lordb on Sept 17, 2020 11:08:48 GMT
Amazing to think Whelo was once an attacking midfielder with an eye for goal! I always remember how when we signed him his reputation was one of a progressive young player with a good range of passing. I also think he probably has TP to thank for changing his game and confining him to the cage because there’s no chance he would have had a decade in the PL trying to ply his trade as a more advanced midfielder. Sheffield Wednesday fans I knew at the time was adamant he wouldn't go to Stoke, so when he was sold 5 minutes before the window closed that was a good moment 😁. Anyway he described him then as 'Mr Sideways' which I think was an accurate description, Whelan struggled to see the forward pass. He did score goals though and Weds wanted to keep him. I thought he played his best football under Hughes.
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Post by walrus on Sept 17, 2020 11:18:20 GMT
Personally have a newfound respect and admiration for Afellay after finding out he got banned from Clayton Wood for calling Geoff Cameron shit. But yes, the players you’ve named were probably all underrated. The decision to move them on though wasn’t necessarily the wrong decision though. We just never replaced them in the way we should. Especially Whelan. Solid player but he couldn’t do it anymore. A player 10-12 years younger would’ve been ideal but we ended up with Fletcher... There’s an argument to suggest getting rid of Bardsley in favour of Glen Johnson was the wrong decision but ultimately they both should’ve gone. Weird to see Bardsley named alongside Whelan and Walters as players we may or not appreciate. Whelan and Walters were mainstays of our club for many years; 10 years, 300+ games, 7 years and not far short of 300 games respectively. They reached their peak at Stoke. Bardsley, on the other hand, was here late in his career, on the way down and played just 50 games. I hardly think of him as a Stoke player. Just one of many who pass through our gates without leaving much of a mark. Bardsley was 28 when we signed him and six years later is still playing regularly in a team that finished in the top half of the Prem. The reason it feels like he left us without making a mark is because we made the questionable decision to favour Johnson over him, not because he was past it.
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Mikel
Sept 17, 2020 11:22:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by lordb on Sept 17, 2020 11:22:29 GMT
Weird to see Bardsley named alongside Whelan and Walters as players we may or not appreciate. Whelan and Walters were mainstays of our club for many years; 10 years, 300+ games, 7 years and not far short of 300 games respectively. They reached their peak at Stoke. Bardsley, on the other hand, was here late in his career, on the way down and played just 50 games. I hardly think of him as a Stoke player. Just one of many who pass through our gates without leaving much of a mark. Bardsley was 28 when we signed him and six years later is still playing regularly in a team that finished in the top half of the Prem. The reason it feels like he left us without making a mark is because we made the questionable decision to favour Johnson over him, not because he was past it. That has to be a Hughes decision Can't see Johnson being cheaper than Bardsley
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Mikel
Sept 17, 2020 11:32:00 GMT
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Post by walrus on Sept 17, 2020 11:32:00 GMT
Bardsley was 28 when we signed him and six years later is still playing regularly in a team that finished in the top half of the Prem. The reason it feels like he left us without making a mark is because we made the questionable decision to favour Johnson over him, not because he was past it. That has to be a Hughes decision Can't see Johnson being cheaper than Bardsley Whoever made it, it’s a decision that looks awful in hindsight but was justifiable at the time on the grounds that Johnson had displaced Bardsley in the first team and been pretty decent for us, especially in his first year. But his standard dropped horribly after that.
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Mikel
Sept 17, 2020 17:12:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2020 17:12:56 GMT
One thing that Whelan and Mikel do share is that they both put aside their own ambitions of taking attacking positions in order to fill a hole in the team that needed filling. Whelan, once a wide player, and Mikel the number 10 for Nigeria, never complained that their own ambitions weren't fulfilled. They just took the job and got on with it, and became subject of much criticism in the process. I can almost certainly predict that we will soon have an anti-Mikel brigade on here - as well as a Mikel diehard section...
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 1, 2021 8:20:13 GMT
Some odd stories in the middle east about him joining a Kuwaiti club....
The management of the Kuwait Club has decided the deal of Nigerian star John Obi Mikel to officially strengthen the ranks of the club's first football team next season, to be the second Al-Abyad professional after Moroccan Mahdi Rahma.
Mikel (34 years old), who occupies the central position like Mahdi Rahma, played the last season with Stoke City in the English Premier League, during which he played 39 games and did not score any goal.
Signing with Mikel is a high-caliber deal for Kuwait, especially as he is one of the famous stars in the world football and has previously represented Nigeria in 91 matches and scored 6 goals, and was one of the contributors to Chelsea winning the Premier League title on two occasions and crowning him as well as the title First in the Champions League.
In addition, the Kuwaiti administration is expected to conclude 3 other deals of high caliber in the two centers of defense and the offensive line, after dispensing with all the professionals of the last season for not appearing at the level that satisfies the ambitions of the Al-Abyad fans.
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Post by LGH87 on Jul 1, 2021 8:24:02 GMT
Some odd stories in the middle east about him joining a Kuwaiti club.... The management of the Kuwait Club has decided the deal of Nigerian star John Obi Mikel to officially strengthen the ranks of the club's first football team next season, to be the second Al-Abyad professional after Moroccan Mahdi Rahma. Mikel (34 years old), who occupies the central position like Mahdi Rahma, played the last season with Stoke City in the English Premier League, during which he played 39 games and did not score any goal. Signing with Mikel is a high-caliber deal for Kuwait, especially as he is one of the famous stars in the world football and has previously represented Nigeria in 91 matches and scored 6 goals, and was one of the contributors to Chelsea winning the Premier League title on two occasions and crowning him as well as the title First in the Champions League. In addition, the Kuwaiti administration is expected to conclude 3 other deals of high caliber in the two centers of defense and the offensive line, after dispensing with all the professionals of the last season for not appearing at the level that satisfies the ambitions of the Al-Abyad fans. This would tie in with something I heard the other day about him having not returned to training. I asked Pete Smith about it but he wasn't aware of anything other than he'd been on a political mission in Nigeria.
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Mikel
Jul 1, 2021 8:24:03 GMT
Post by FullerMagic on Jul 1, 2021 8:24:03 GMT
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