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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 15, 2020 17:07:47 GMT
If its not breaking the law its none of their business for me, people and sponsors can judge them on what they choose to wear and not buy the tat they sell / promote if it offends them. Provided it's only breaking the law in a very specific and limited way it's absolutely fine... And their lies the problem. What about if one of the other drivers came out wearing a shirt saying All lives matter. It’s not breaking the law but clearly it could be classed as controversial and you can imagine the furore.
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Post by mattador78 on Sept 15, 2020 17:43:43 GMT
Opinions are like arseholes everyone’s got one you just don’t have to examine all of them if you don’t want to
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 15, 2020 17:45:29 GMT
Opinions are like arseholes everyone’s got one you just don’t have to examine all of them if you don’t want to You’re right and there’s arseholes all over Twitter unfortunately
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 15, 2020 19:45:00 GMT
Another precedent set another rule broken law breaker ignored becoming a thing nowadays To be fair none of the fuckers stick to the speed limit so whats a t-shirt in the scheme of things F1 is wank anyway but regardless provided you are not breaking the actual law people should be free to wear what the fuck they want, its no business of governments so its certainly no business of FIA or FIFA or anyone. I wonder if the reaction would be the same if a driver turned up in a Mandela was a murderer t-shirt.
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Sept 15, 2020 19:52:00 GMT
To be fair none of the fuckers stick to the speed limit so whats a t-shirt in the scheme of things F1 is wank anyway but regardless provided you are not breaking the actual law people should be free to wear what the fuck they want, its no business of governments so its certainly no business of FIA or FIFA or anyone. I wonder if the reaction would be the same if a driver turned up in a Mandela was a murderer t-shirt. So just to be clear you’re comparing plain clothes police who killed someone while they were sleeping, with nelson Mandela?
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 15, 2020 20:02:39 GMT
I wonder if the reaction would be the same if a driver turned up in a Mandela was a murderer t-shirt. So just to be clear you’re comparing plain clothes police who killed someone while they were sleeping, with nelson Mandela? I agree That it's a touch harsh comparing police officers allegedly doing there job And a man who sanctioned mass murder of innocent people by terrorism
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 15, 2020 20:23:05 GMT
I wonder if the reaction would be the same if a driver turned up in a Mandela was a murderer t-shirt. So just to be clear you’re comparing plain clothes police who killed someone while they were sleeping, with nelson Mandela? Mandela had the blood of many more people on his hands than these police officers, the vast majority targeted because they just happened to have white skin all massacred in premeditated terrorist attacks you ok with that fact ?
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Sept 15, 2020 20:35:09 GMT
Ok bare with me as I wasn’t around in what I will call peak Mandela. I’ll do some reading tomorrow and get back to you
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Sept 15, 2020 20:56:25 GMT
So just to be clear you’re comparing plain clothes police who killed someone while they were sleeping, with nelson Mandela? Mandela had the blood of many more people on his hands than these police officers, the vast majority targeted because they just happened to have white skin all massacred in premeditated terrorist attacks you ok with that fact ? Ok so just done a small amount of reading and from what I can tell he got as good as he gave from a racist government but yes he did kill more than one person I wouldn’t agree with the message should that ever be displayed ( it won’t be) but if it was again I’d probably just ignore it
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Post by foster on Sept 15, 2020 21:02:26 GMT
Opinions are like arseholes everyone’s got one you just don’t have to examine all of them if you don’t want to That's true. My gripe with all this bullshit is that it's difficult to ignore opinions when they're thrust in your face. Especially by those who have absolutely nothing in common with normal everyday people. It's nothing more than jumping on a bandwagon and typical of celeb culture today. Wait for the next fad and then display faux outrage rather than actually give up some of your time and money to help those affected. It's fucking pathetic. Yeah look at me. I'll stick a jumper or cap on with a slogan on it showing how outraged I am, and make the front/back pages, giving me more 'likes' and twitter followers.... whoop di fucking doo. A simple tribute would have fine, but not something suggesting some kind of retaliatory action.
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Sept 15, 2020 21:11:28 GMT
Opinions are like arseholes everyone’s got one you just don’t have to examine all of them if you don’t want to That's true. My gripe with all this bullshit is that it's difficult to ignore opinions when they're thrust in your face. Especially by those who have absolutely nothing in common with normal everyday people. It's nothing more than jumping on a bandwagon and typical of celeb culture today. Wait for the next fad and then display faux outrage rather than actually give up some of your time and money to help those affected. It's fucking pathetic. Yeah look at me. I'll stick a jumper or cap on with a slogan on it showing how outraged I am, and make the front/back pages, giving me more 'likes' and twitter followers.... whoop di fucking doo. A simple tribute would have fine, but not something suggesting some kind of retaliatory action. I think some issues need a celebrity pushing them along, from example David Attenborough does a great job in highlighting environmental issues that may not get highlighted otherwise Hamilton does seem to enjoy lobbing in his 2 penneth but then I guess you can take from it what you want
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Post by foster on Sept 15, 2020 21:20:11 GMT
That's true. My gripe with all this bullshit is that it's difficult to ignore opinions when they're thrust in your face. Especially by those who have absolutely nothing in common with normal everyday people. It's nothing more than jumping on a bandwagon and typical of celeb culture today. Wait for the next fad and then display faux outrage rather than actually give up some of your time and money to help those affected. It's fucking pathetic. Yeah look at me. I'll stick a jumper or cap on with a slogan on it showing how outraged I am, and make the front/back pages, giving me more 'likes' and twitter followers.... whoop di fucking doo. A simple tribute would have fine, but not something suggesting some kind of retaliatory action. I think some issues need a celebrity pushing them along, from example David Attenborough does a great job in highlighting environmental issues that may not get highlighted otherwise Hamilton does seem to enjoy lobbing in his 2 penneth but then I guess you can take from it what you want Attenborough states facts and is a wildly recognised and respected expert in his field and in the subject of which he proclaims an opinion. Indeed, what he says is based on facts rather than opinion. Hamilton wears jumpers with slogans suggesting that police get arrested.
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 15, 2020 21:20:42 GMT
Mandela had the blood of many more people on his hands than these police officers, the vast majority targeted because they just happened to have white skin all massacred in premeditated terrorist attacks you ok with that fact ? Ok so just done a small amount of reading and from what I can tell he got as good as he gave from a racist government but yes he did kill more than one person I wouldn’t agree with the message should that ever be displayed ( it won’t be) but if it was again I’d probably just ignore it More than one FFS ! would you consider him a racist as he targeted white people simply because they were white ? he targeted innocent people including women and children not just a "racist" government is that acceptable because he was a black man ?
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 15, 2020 21:23:44 GMT
Mandela had the blood of many more people on his hands than these police officers, the vast majority targeted because they just happened to have white skin all massacred in premeditated terrorist attacks you ok with that fact ? Ok so just done a small amount of reading and from what I can tell he got as good as he gave from a racist government but yes he did kill more than one person I wouldn’t agree with the message should that ever be displayed ( it won’t be) but if it was again I’d probably just ignore it I take it you are ok with targeting people because of their skin colour then, he targeted innocent white people including women and children as did his wife ?
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Sept 15, 2020 21:43:36 GMT
I think some issues need a celebrity pushing them along, from example David Attenborough does a great job in highlighting environmental issues that may not get highlighted otherwise Hamilton does seem to enjoy lobbing in his 2 penneth but then I guess you can take from it what you want Attenborough states facts and is a wildly recognised and respected expert in his field and in the subject of which he proclaims an opinion. Indeed, what he says is based on facts rather than opinion. Hamilton wears jumpers with slogans suggesting that police get arrested. If police do something wrong they should get arrested I don’t believe in qualified immunity ( I think that’s what it’s called) without being there in person I can’t comment too much, but shooting an emt certainly doesn’t sound good.
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Sept 15, 2020 21:46:18 GMT
Ok so just done a small amount of reading and from what I can tell he got as good as he gave from a racist government but yes he did kill more than one person I wouldn’t agree with the message should that ever be displayed ( it won’t be) but if it was again I’d probably just ignore it More than one FFS ! would you consider him a racist as he targeted white people simply because they were white ? he targeted innocent people including women and children not just a "racist" government is that acceptable because he was a black man ? I’ll have to do much more reading before I can give you a considered answer to this but like I said people can wear whatever they want, even if I didn’t I wouldn’t freak out about it
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Post by mattyd2 on Sept 16, 2020 8:05:02 GMT
I wonder if the reaction would be the same if a driver turned up in a Mandela was a murderer t-shirt. So just to be clear you’re comparing plain clothes police who killed someone while they were sleeping, with nelson Mandela? I dont think she was sleeping. Pretty sure the sound of her drug dealing boyfriend opening fire and shooting at the officers, hitting one in the stomach, might have woken her.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 16, 2020 8:14:27 GMT
So just to be clear you’re comparing plain clothes police who killed someone while they were sleeping, with nelson Mandela? I dont think she was sleeping. Pretty sure the sound of her drug dealing boyfriend opening fire and shooting at the officers, hitting one in the stomach, might have woken her. Sshhhh you should know better than to allow facts to get the better of agendas
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Sept 16, 2020 9:37:43 GMT
I dont think she was sleeping. Pretty sure the sound of her drug dealing boyfriend opening fire and shooting at the officers, hitting one in the stomach, might have woken her. Sshhhh you should know better than to allow facts to get the better of agendas I don’t have an agenda ( other than being against anyone being allowed to own a gun) Just reporting what I’ve heard. I don’t know for sure as I wasn’t there, nor I’m guessing were you
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Post by mattyd2 on Sept 16, 2020 9:46:14 GMT
Sshhhh you should know better than to allow facts to get the better of agendas I don’t have an agenda ( other than being against anyone being allowed to own a gun) Just reporting what I’ve heard. I don’t know for sure as I wasn’t there, nor I’m guessing were you I doubt any oatcake posters were there, but the facts are 3 officers came under fire executing a no knock entry warrant and in the line of duty returned fire, wounding the drug dealing shooter, and sadly killing his girlfriend. If they are arresred and charged with murder, as Mr Hamilton is demanding, then the backlash from rank and file officers could be huge, and recruitment of future officers seriously cut. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a USA police control room should Mr Hamilton require police assistance in the future.
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Sept 16, 2020 9:56:04 GMT
I don’t have an agenda ( other than being against anyone being allowed to own a gun) Just reporting what I’ve heard. I don’t know for sure as I wasn’t there, nor I’m guessing were you I doubt any oatcake posters were there, but the facts are 3 officers came under fire executing a no knock entry warrant and in the line of duty returned fire, wounding the drug dealing shooter, and sadly killing his girlfriend. If they are arresred and charged with murder, as Mr Hamilton is demanding, then the backlash from rank and file officers could be huge, and recruitment of future officers seriously cut. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a USA police control room should Mr Hamilton require police assistance in the future. I doubt it will effect recruitment in the future, it seems quite a rare case. I’m not one of those who believes all American coppers get in the job to kill people so hopefully it won’t effect recruitment
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 16, 2020 10:23:47 GMT
So just to be clear you’re comparing plain clothes police who killed someone while they were sleeping, with nelson Mandela? I dont think she was sleeping. Pretty sure the sound of her drug dealing boyfriend opening fire and shooting at the officers, hitting one in the stomach, might have woken her. Don't be silly the Police are not allowed to return fire if the drug dealing gunman is black FFS.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 16, 2020 10:24:28 GMT
I have a lot of respect for Lewis Hamilton and think he does his best for issues he believes are important, and his ultimate aim surrounding BLM is a more inclusive world for everyone. He is great for F1 and sport in general. It's good that people with his profile raise awareness about important issues. I hadn't heard of the case referred to on Hamilton's shirt until I saw it so don't know about the intricacies of that, but he does give me the impression he considers things carefully before he does them, which wasn't always the case in his younger days. No one is perfect of course, and he could be wrong in this instance. However, at a time when parts of the world were forgetting about BLM, Hamilton has brought it to everyone's attention again. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable taking the knee in support of BLM, though I do support BLM and any group of people who have faced and continue to be undermined and face injustice. I didn't clap for the NHS - these things can be empty gestures to me. It doesn't mean I don't respect NHS and key workers massively. People should be free to support things in their own way without people going OTT about it. I wouldn't criticise anyone who takes the knee or clapped for the NHS, though criticism can be important of course. If I was an F1 driver, I'd speak with Lewis Hamilton, ask what he thinks I could do to help, and I'm pretty sure he'd respect that whether I took the knee or not. As Osi Umenyiora said in the BBC segment mentioned in this thread, BLM can be an uncomfortable subject for anyone to talk about, so I did disagree slightly with Lewis Hamilton's comments seemingly criticising all other F1 drivers when this season started, though he'd know better than me of course. thevoid BLM protests were happening in the UK years before George Floyd's death e.g. www.buzzfeednews.com/article/susiearmitage/2016-was-the-year-black-lives-matter-went-globalThe battheader chronicles This may be the most liberal time to be alive but that doesn't mean there isn't a long way to go. Homosexuality wasn't actually made legal across the UK in 1967. It was still illegal in the Isle of Man until the 90s, for example. The age of consent wasn't lowered to 16 (to be the same as male-female) until 2001, a time when sex between more than two males was also illegal. And when was homosexuality made illegal in the UK? Maybe there was a time before when the UK (or whatever it was called at the time) was more tolerant of homosexuality and certain things but not others (like trying women as witches). I'd also argue the Internet is making people more divided. On the Internet, you can believe anything you want to and find your group of people (flat-earthers, for example). There is still a lot of intolerance and divide (that people like Trump are making worse), and people are probably 'less liberal' in the hidden away places and their own groups rather than normal conversation you mention. Even in not-so-hidden places, black people are regularly racially abused with words like nigger - social media and online gaming, for example. So while in the "real world," obvious racist abuse seems less, online it certainly isn't - suggesting the problem isn't really improving. Yes, I remember the 2016 protest at London City airport. They were predominantly white and highlighting "the UK's environmental impact on the lives of black people locally and globally" (quoted from BBC News). Well that was tin foil hat lunacy right up there with their bizarre views on suffragettes. It's hardly going to get people on side, especially when some would have missed important meetings - no doubt some of these people would've been BAME. That protest seemed to tie in more with XR, or BLM's anti-capitalist agenda which later came to light, and was an isolated rather than nationwide protest though. Still, for a BuzzFeed article, it was quite highbrow. Last time I looked on there the articles included 'Pick a Pizza Topping and We'll Tell You Which Disney Character You Are' 😀 (Pepperoni and Pocahontas of anyone wants to know 😎)
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Post by walstoke on Sept 16, 2020 10:29:09 GMT
100 percent agree. I guess at the moment it just all feels very unbalanced as to who has a voice. I get what you’re saying but it depends who you listen to I suppose. Personally I find disengagement with social media and media in general helps Most people regardless of thier views are reasonable people and I find too much stuff at the minute is just designed to piss people off over something pointless to generate clicks. Take Brexit as an example ( dangerous i know 😂) The media and social media particularly has more of less broken 33 million odd people into 2 groups Remain- hates everything about this country and wants to see it fail, that’s clearly untrue ( full disclosure I voted remain) Leave- bunch of racists who didn’t have the first clue what they voted for and probably did it because they didn’t like the foreign family down the road, again completely untrue most people I’ve met who voted leave are lovely people did so after careful consideration, even if I don’t agree with thier conclusions it doesn’t make them racist or bad people or whatever well said 👍
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 16, 2020 10:46:03 GMT
I don’t have an agenda ( other than being against anyone being allowed to own a gun) Just reporting what I’ve heard. I don’t know for sure as I wasn’t there, nor I’m guessing were you I doubt any oatcake posters were there, but the facts are 3 officers came under fire executing a no knock entry warrant and in the line of duty returned fire, wounding the drug dealing shooter, and sadly killing his girlfriend. If they are arresred and charged with murder, as Mr Hamilton is demanding, then the backlash from rank and file officers could be huge, and recruitment of future officers seriously cut. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a USA police control room should Mr Hamilton require police assistance in the future. This is a bit of an eye opener re the case. I’m no expert but I do think the likes of Hamilton need to get a more balanced view before making judgement. Now I’m not for a minute saying that what happened was right or justified because sadly someone died but labelling officers murderers is wrong. There’s a huge difference between an officer accidentally killing someone in the heat of a very difficult situation and a person going out with the intention of murdering someone. Murder is when the act is premeditated. I don’t think in either the Brianna Taylor or George Floyd cases the officers have got up in the morning with the intention of killing anyone. I think the biggest issue for me in the US Isn’t racism it’s the number of guns on the streets. When you’re policing not knowing when someone’s going to shoot you then you’re naturally going to look on people very differently than if guns aren’t on the streets. This was very obvious in the George Floyd incident when - the officer stopping Floyd was quite robust because Floyd was behaving quite erratically. Not knowing whether Floyd was going to reach for a weapon or not. Hindsight is a great thing but when your dealing with potentially armed people day in day out you can’t take chances or you could end up dead. 50 Officers have been killed in the US this year. - George Floyd according to his friend had been around guns a lot in his life both as a victim and perpetrator so didn’t react mentally well when the officer drew his weapon.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 16, 2020 10:52:11 GMT
Attenborough states facts and is a wildly recognised and respected expert in his field and in the subject of which he proclaims an opinion. Indeed, what he says is based on facts rather than opinion. Hamilton wears jumpers with slogans suggesting that police get arrested. If police do something wrong they should get arrested I don’t believe in qualified immunity ( I think that’s what it’s called) without being there in person I can’t comment too much, but shooting an emt certainly doesn’t sound good. Spot on and that does happen. The IPCC do that in the U.K. Often for offences that the general public may not even be dealt with for and that’s how it should be. Things have moved on since Hillsborough when things were dealt with very differently. Thankfully things have moved on since then.
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Post by mattyd2 on Sept 16, 2020 11:20:48 GMT
I doubt any oatcake posters were there, but the facts are 3 officers came under fire executing a no knock entry warrant and in the line of duty returned fire, wounding the drug dealing shooter, and sadly killing his girlfriend. If they are arresred and charged with murder, as Mr Hamilton is demanding, then the backlash from rank and file officers could be huge, and recruitment of future officers seriously cut. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a USA police control room should Mr Hamilton require police assistance in the future. This is a bit of an eye opener re the case. I’m no expert but I do think the likes of Hamilton need to get a more balanced view before making judgement. Now I’m not for a minute saying that what happened was right or justified because sadly someone died but labelling officers murderers is wrong. There’s a huge difference between an officer accidentally killing someone in the heat of a very difficult situation and a person going out with the intention of murdering someone. Murder is when the act is premeditated. I don’t think in either the Brianna Taylor or George Floyd cases the officers have got up in the morning with the intention of killing anyone. I think the biggest issue for me in the US Isn’t racism it’s the number of guns on the streets. When you’re policing not knowing when someone’s going to shoot you then you’re naturally going to look on people very differently than if guns aren’t on the streets. This was very obvious in the George Floyd incident when - the officer stopping Floyd was quite robust because Floyd was behaving quite erratically. Not knowing whether Floyd was going to reach for a weapon or not. Hindsight is a great thing but when your dealing with potentially armed people day in day out you can’t take chances or you could end up dead. 50 Officers have been killed in the US this year. - George Floyd according to his friend had been around guns a lot in his life both as a victim and perpetrator so didn’t react mentally well when the officer drew his weapon. Very interesting facts about the case. Lewis...Over to you...
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Post by mattador78 on Sept 16, 2020 12:05:01 GMT
So just to be clear you’re comparing plain clothes police who killed someone while they were sleeping, with nelson Mandela? I dont think she was sleeping. Pretty sure the sound of her drug dealing boyfriend opening fire and shooting at the officers, hitting one in the stomach, might have woken her. This is where it gets iffy though they were looking for her ex boyfriend at that address. Her boyfriend who fired on the police had a permit/licence for the firearm he used and was phoning the police to say there was a break in at the property. It’s more a tragic accident than murder but due to the current climate it’s being analysed more critically and perhaps in the wrong directions than it should be.
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 16, 2020 15:12:54 GMT
I dont think she was sleeping. Pretty sure the sound of her drug dealing boyfriend opening fire and shooting at the officers, hitting one in the stomach, might have woken her. This is where it gets iffy though they were looking for her ex boyfriend at that address. Her boyfriend who fired on the police had a permit/licence for the firearm he used and was phoning the police to say there was a break in at the property. It’s more a tragic accident than murder but due to the current climate it’s being analysed more critically and perhaps in the wrong directions than it should be. The Police had a permit for her arrest, seems all is not as some would have us believe.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 16, 2020 16:00:20 GMT
This is where it gets iffy though they were looking for her ex boyfriend at that address. Her boyfriend who fired on the police had a permit/licence for the firearm he used and was phoning the police to say there was a break in at the property. It’s more a tragic accident than murder but due to the current climate it’s being analysed more critically and perhaps in the wrong directions than it should be. The Police had a permit for her arrest, seems all is not as some would have us believe. Which is exactly why people shouldn’t judge when they only have half the story. They need to look beyond the headlines. Any loss of life is tragic but often things aren’t as straight forward as the MSM would want you to think.
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