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Post by PotterLog on Aug 27, 2020 17:23:42 GMT
When you correct for other factors like rates of apprehension/arrest, white people who find themselves in an interaction with police in the US are slightly more likely to end up dead than blacks. Of course there are many other factors to consider like the fact that a disproportionate number of stops are conducted on black people. Non-lethal force seems to come into play more frequently when the subject is black. Then there's the criminal justice and prison system which is an absolute disaster in the States, and disproportionately affects poor black Americans. It's a complicated picture, but the narrative that an institutionally racist US police force is routinely gunning down innocent black people in the streets is wildly and dangerously inaccurate. I would agree, but i don't think that narrative has actually been pushed by anyone, anywhere has it? I'll just assume that's a joke mick
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2020 19:00:55 GMT
When you correct for other factors like rates of apprehension/arrest, white people who find themselves in an interaction with police in the US are slightly more likely to end up dead than blacks. Of course there are many other factors to consider like the fact that a disproportionate number of stops are conducted on black people. Non-lethal force seems to come into play more frequently when the subject is black. Then there's the criminal justice and prison system which is an absolute disaster in the States, and disproportionately affects poor black Americans. It's a complicated picture, but the narrative that an institutionally racist US police force is routinely gunning down innocent black people in the streets is wildly and dangerously inaccurate. Interesting post. Do you have a source for the "[adjusted] likelihood of an interaction turning fatal" stat? I'd like to read more. Thanks.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 27, 2020 19:29:16 GMT
When you correct for other factors like rates of apprehension/arrest, white people who find themselves in an interaction with police in the US are slightly more likely to end up dead than blacks. Of course there are many other factors to consider like the fact that a disproportionate number of stops are conducted on black people. Non-lethal force seems to come into play more frequently when the subject is black. Then there's the criminal justice and prison system which is an absolute disaster in the States, and disproportionately affects poor black Americans. It's a complicated picture, but the narrative that an institutionally racist US police force is routinely gunning down innocent black people in the streets is wildly and dangerously inaccurate. Interesting post. Do you have a source for the "[adjusted] likelihood of an interaction turning fatal" stat? I'd like to read more. Thanks. I knew someone would ask me that It's based on sound research, I'll try and dig it out
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 27, 2020 20:32:56 GMT
The footage looks horrific !, what I can not understand is why Jacob did not stop when told to , given the nature of the American Police I am pretty damn sure I would have stopped whatever colour my skin was, armed Police officers who have a tendency to be on high alert pointing a deadly weapon usually has that effect, has there been any credible explanation why he failed to comply ?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 28, 2020 6:19:23 GMT
If only people who trotted out "stats" had any fucking clue whatsoever how to actually analyse them eh? "Here, i've got some numbers....no context or analysis surrounding them, but they're numbers and if i shout them enough times it proves something". Facebook and twitter are full of thick fuckers who have no idea of what the "stats" actually show at all, just whatever they're told it MUST mean by equally thick fuckers who also don't realise that numbers on their own prove literally nothing. They don't even realise the stats they're trotting out actually stengthen the point they're apparently arguing against (as you correctly point it, it's the disproportion that's the salient piece of information in the stats). When you correct for other factors like rates of apprehension/arrest, white people who find themselves in an interaction with police in the US are slightly more likely to end up dead than blacks. Of course there are many other factors to consider like the fact that a disproportionate number of stops are conducted on black people. Non-lethal force seems to come into play more frequently when the subject is black. Then there's the criminal justice and prison system which is an absolute disaster in the States, and disproportionately affects poor black Americans. It's a complicated picture, but the narrative that an institutionally racist US police force is routinely gunning down innocent black people in the streets is wildly and dangerously inaccurate. That's interesting, because it doesn't tally with mattyd2's figures, although I wouldn't trust him to find his way out of his own bedroom, let alone put some accurate figures up! I'd like to see how you reached your conclusion too. If your assertion is correct, perhaps non-whites know that, generally, they need to be a lot more careful when interacting with the police than do whites, so despite being stopped disproportionately more often they end up being shot less than whites who are less cautious? Still doesn't explain mattyd2's stats though. Who knows. I'd like to read your research.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 28, 2020 6:33:08 GMT
When you correct for other factors like rates of apprehension/arrest, white people who find themselves in an interaction with police in the US are slightly more likely to end up dead than blacks. Of course there are many other factors to consider like the fact that a disproportionate number of stops are conducted on black people. Non-lethal force seems to come into play more frequently when the subject is black. Then there's the criminal justice and prison system which is an absolute disaster in the States, and disproportionately affects poor black Americans. It's a complicated picture, but the narrative that an institutionally racist US police force is routinely gunning down innocent black people in the streets is wildly and dangerously inaccurate. That's interesting, because it doesn't tally with mattyd2's figures, although I wouldn't trust him to find his way out of his own bedroom, let alone put some accurate figures up! I'd like to see how you reached your conclusion too. If your assertion is correct, perhaps non-whites know that, generally, they need to be a lot more careful when interacting with the police than do whites, so despite being stopped disproportionately more often they end up being shot less than whites who are less cautious? Still doesn't explain mattyd2's stats though. Who knows. I'd like to read your research. mattyd's appear to be shootings rather than fatal shootings. It still wouldn't be incongruous though, I'm talking about deaths as a proportion of incidents of police apprehension (by race).
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 28, 2020 6:39:53 GMT
When you correct for other factors like rates of apprehension/arrest, white people who find themselves in an interaction with police in the US are slightly more likely to end up dead than blacks. Of course there are many other factors to consider like the fact that a disproportionate number of stops are conducted on black people. Non-lethal force seems to come into play more frequently when the subject is black. Then there's the criminal justice and prison system which is an absolute disaster in the States, and disproportionately affects poor black Americans. It's a complicated picture, but the narrative that an institutionally racist US police force is routinely gunning down innocent black people in the streets is wildly and dangerously inaccurate. That's interesting, because it doesn't tally with mattyd2's figures, although I wouldn't trust him to find his way out of his own bedroom, let alone put some accurate figures up! I'd like to see how you reached your conclusion too. If your assertion is correct, perhaps non-whites know that, generally, they need to be a lot more careful when interacting with the police than do whites, so despite being stopped disproportionately more often they end up being shot less than whites who are less cautious? Still doesn't explain mattyd2's stats though. Who knows. I'd like to read your research. Interesting stuff. I guess ultimately there could a whole load of reasons but I’m not sure that non-whites being more careful is one of them from some of the stuff that’s been on the the TV.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 28, 2020 7:02:41 GMT
I'm trying to understand the apparent disparity between mattyd2's figures which appear to show a disproportionate killing of non-whites by police when compared to Potterlog's comment that whites are more likely to end up dead at the hands of the police. I could do with seeing Potterlog's research to try to understand.
I don't know - I think if you were non-white you might have a very different feeling towards the police than white folk do, especially in America. And as a result a different way of behaving.
Remember, the incident in Central Park where a girl called the police because a black man was asking her to put her dog on a leash as the regulations required? Her thinking, as a white person, was immediately that the police would assume he was the source of the problem/a criminal/acting aggressively etc purely because he was black - she even said so! That being the case, unless you've lived in a society where that appears to be the general level of understanding of how the police will react to non-whites in a situation, I suspect you wouldn't think that non-whites need to react differently when interacting with the police.
But irrespective of colour, the fundamental issue is one of guns. If you're a law enforcement officer trying to deal with someone who may be armed with a weapon that could end your life in an instant, it's hardly surprising that you're going to be on edge all the time during that interaction, with the tragic reaction that often results (see Squeekster's examples of ridiculous over-reaction towards two entirely innocent people).
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 28, 2020 7:15:02 GMT
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Post by mattyd2 on Aug 28, 2020 7:17:55 GMT
Very well put together article, and pulls no punches.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 28, 2020 7:24:23 GMT
Very well put together article, and pulls no punches. Indeed. Interesting stuff. What made me smile was No.3 which highlights how those on the right of the political spectrum generally don't see any problems with policing and non-whites, while those not on the right side generally do. Which is pretty much 100% borne out on this board!
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Post by mattyd2 on Aug 28, 2020 7:32:16 GMT
Very well put together article, and pulls no punches. Indeed. Interesting stuff. What made me smile was No.3 which highlights how those on the right of the political spectrum generally don't see any problems with policing and non-whites, while those not on the right side generally do. Which is pretty much 100% borne out on this board! Slightly disagree. I'm definitely right wing, look at my avtar, but I absolutely hate Police brutality towards anyone regardless of colour. But what I hate even more is the thought of The Police being hamstrung when dealing with non whites for fear of being labelled a racist. All criminals, or even suspects, should be dealt with fairly, regardless of colour, creed, age or sex. I'm sure im not alone when i say it makes my piss boil when you see these " Police Camera Action" type shows when at the end the narrator says " So and So was let off with a warning, or given community service"
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 28, 2020 7:48:27 GMT
Indeed. Interesting stuff. What made me smile was No.3 which highlights how those on the right of the political spectrum generally don't see any problems with policing and non-whites, while those not on the right side generally do. Which is pretty much 100% borne out on this board! Slightly disagree. I'm definitely right wing, look at my avtar, but I absolutely hate Police brutality towards anyone regardless of colour. But what I hate even more is the thought of The Police being hamstrung when dealing with non whites for fear of being labelled a racist. All criminals, or even suspects, should be dealt with fairly, regardless of colour, creed, age or sex. I'm sure im not alone when i say it makes my piss boil when you see these " Police Camera Action" type shows when at the end the narrator says " So and So was let off with a warning, or given community service" Well said. As always whether you’re white, black or police it’s always the minority that let the majority down. The problem is that the minority can have a huge impact if the issues a big one. I think at the moment the media are highlighting on anything negative and focussing on it. When was the last time that they’ve put anything positive in the news about anything never mind the Police. It doesn’t fit their agenda.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 28, 2020 7:54:40 GMT
Slightly disagree. I'm definitely right wing, look at my avtar, but I absolutely hate Police brutality towards anyone regardless of colour. But what I hate even more is the thought of The Police being hamstrung when dealing with non whites for fear of being labelled a racist. All criminals, or even suspects, should be dealt with fairly, regardless of colour, creed, age or sex. I'm sure im not alone when i say it makes my piss boil when you see these " Police Camera Action" type shows when at the end the narrator says " So and So was let off with a warning, or given community service" Well said. As always whether you’re white, black or police it’s always the minority that let the majority down. The problem is that the minority can have a huge impact if the issues a big one. I think at the moment the media are focussing on anything negative and focussing on it. When was the last time that they’ve put anything positive in the news about anything never mind the Police. It doesn’t fit their agenda. It’s the way a shooting in America is so magnified by our own media that does my head in. They make out as though it’s comparable to what’s happening over here. The British police are nothing like the American police, why can’t people understand that
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 28, 2020 8:04:05 GMT
Well said. As always whether you’re white, black or police it’s always the minority that let the majority down. The problem is that the minority can have a huge impact if the issues a big one. I think at the moment the media are focussing on anything negative and focussing on it. When was the last time that they’ve put anything positive in the news about anything never mind the Police. It doesn’t fit their agenda. It’s the way a shooting in America is so magnified by our own media that does my head in. They make out as though it’s comparable to what’s happening over here. The British police are nothing like the American police, why can’t people understand that I think the majority do as the stats 100 percent back it up in relation to firearms related deaths. The problem is there are certain Activists and media that want to make out it is to fit their agenda. Yes look at equality if it needs to be addressed whether it’s in the workplace or on the streets but no way can we be compared to a country where there are shoot outs on a daily basis involving police. That said there does appear to be a worrying rise in gun crime in the major cities especially Birmingham and London from what I’ve seen. If all Officers were armed you could probably multiply those incidents by 10
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 28, 2020 8:14:07 GMT
Indeed. Interesting stuff. What made me smile was No.3 which highlights how those on the right of the political spectrum generally don't see any problems with policing and non-whites, while those not on the right side generally do. Which is pretty much 100% borne out on this board! Slightly disagree. I'm definitely right wing, look at my avtar, but I absolutely hate Police brutality towards anyone regardless of colour. But what I hate even more is the thought of The Police being hamstrung when dealing with non whites for fear of being labelled a racist. All criminals, or even suspects, should be dealt with fairly, regardless of colour, creed, age or sex. I'm sure im not alone when i say it makes my piss boil when you see these " Police Camera Action" type shows when at the end the narrator says " So and So was let off with a warning, or given community service" I'm sure you do disagree, as will everyone who is broadly or definitely right wing, since no-one wants to consider themselves unable to see discrimination of any kind. However, that doesn't negate the point I made. If you look across the various threads on this board which deal with race issues (or are hijacked into race issues!) it is almost always the posters with rightwing sympathies who are arguing against the existence of discrimination, or trying to claim that protesting is just stirring things up, or shit-stirring, or trying to pick holes in any movement which seeks to highlight discrimination etc etc. I've often thought that folk on the right are generally not that aware or interested in discrimination/problems for others/call it what you will until it happens to directly affect them. I suspect question number 3 in that research is indicative of that approach to life. You can see examples of this on the Coronavirus thread - the broadly rightwing lot are up in arms about having to wear a mask, having their civil liberties infringed, over-reacting governments, hyperbolic media stories, scaremongering etc because it impacts on them, with much less interest in close to a million dead people worldwide, hundreds of dead frontline NHS workers and a potential collapse of healthcare if the virus was just allowed to run riot until herd immunity was achieved. I would guarantee you that if, by some bizarre quirk, the tables were suddenly turned and whites were the subject of discrimination rather than non-whites, you'd hear no end of complaining from the right. If you don't agree with this, look at how much the rightwingers on here already moan about positive anti-discrimination measures for non-whites and soon kick off about the poor, oppressed white man being the victim, when he clearly isn't! I freely accept that there are exceptions to this on here and in 'real life' but the broad generalisation holds up.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 28, 2020 10:23:54 GMT
Indeed. Interesting stuff. What made me smile was No.3 which highlights how those on the right of the political spectrum generally don't see any problems with policing and non-whites, while those not on the right side generally do. Which is pretty much 100% borne out on this board! Slightly disagree. I'm definitely right wing, look at my avtar, but I absolutely hate Police brutality towards anyone regardless of colour. But what I hate even more is the thought of The Police being hamstrung when dealing with non whites for fear of being labelled a racist. All criminals, or even suspects, should be dealt with fairly, regardless of colour, creed, age or sex. I'm sure im not alone when i say it makes my piss boil when you see these " Police Camera Action" type shows when at the end the narrator says " So and So was let off with a warning, or given community service" I am pretty sure that ethnicity played a large part in the predominantly Muslim paedo gangs getting away with their vile crimes for the amount of time they did, these people were reported to the authorities on numerous occasions but no action was taken, the Police are petrified to deal with these types of incidents for fear of being branded racist which is not acceptable, more recently we have seen BLM protesters defacing and destroying monuments etc. whilst the Police stood back and took no action why?, we have had BLM actavists dressed in paramilitary uniform marching on our streets breaking the law openly again no Police action taken why ? The law is the law if it is not abided by whoever they should not be absolved of criminal behaviour for any reason !, if that is the case we will become as we have witnessed a lawless society where the Police become a laughing stock, so many precedents have been set is it right that Police officers are ordered to "take the knee" in front of a crowd of BLM protesters ? it makes a mockery of our law.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 28, 2020 10:44:51 GMT
I rest my case!
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 28, 2020 10:53:25 GMT
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Post by thevoid on Aug 28, 2020 11:04:08 GMT
Well said. As always whether you’re white, black or police it’s always the minority that let the majority down. The problem is that the minority can have a huge impact if the issues a big one. I think at the moment the media are focussing on anything negative and focussing on it. When was the last time that they’ve put anything positive in the news about anything never mind the Police. It doesn’t fit their agenda. It’s the way a shooting in America is so magnified by our own media that does my head in. They make out as though it’s comparable to what’s happening over here. The British police are nothing like the American police, why can’t people understand that They're more like social workers in the UK. Have you noticed that we have a police 'service' rather than a 'force' these days? I must be one of those right wingers who doesn't have an issue with the police, but I think the main reason for this is that I don't really go out and commit any crimes, ergo I have no reason to dislike them 😊 They're not perfect (who is?) - especially when on football duty - but they're better than the alternatives of anarchy and vigilatism. And the UK police are now more diverse than ever, surely?
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Aug 28, 2020 12:05:36 GMT
So far this year 215 White people have been shot by the police in The USA, compared to 111 Black, 71 Hispanic, 15 Other & 146 Unknown. NOT ONE OF THE SHOOTINGS OF ANY GROUPS OTHER THAN THE BLACKS HAS RESULTED IN ANY RIOTS OR PUBLIC DISORDER WHATSOEVER. Stop shouting! 2017 - 73% of US population is classified as White, 27% non-White. By your figures - 54% of shootings are of Whites, 46% are of non-Whites. (I've excluded Others and Unknowns). Hmmm...perhaps non-Whites are "starting" to get a bit fed up of this disproportionate tally of shootings against them? You may as well mate
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 28, 2020 17:10:05 GMT
I'm trying to understand the apparent disparity between mattyd2's figures which appear to show a disproportionate killing of non-whites by police when compared to Potterlog's comment that whites are more likely to end up dead at the hands of the police. I could do with seeing Potterlog's research to try to understand. edit- I'll just preface this by repeating that there is no disparity between mine and mattyd's figures. You're taking the numbers as a % of the whole population, I am looking at proportions of encounters/arrests. Ok so here are some raw figures, it's nowhere near the whole story but it's a starting point. These are based on arrests. 2017 5,626,140 white people arrested. 461 killed = 1 person killed per 12000 arrests 2,221,697 black people arrested. 224 killed = 1 person killed per 10000 arrests 2018 5,319,654 white people arrested. 456 killed = 1 person killed per 11600 arrests 2,115,381 black people arrested. 228 killed = 1 person killed per 9000 arrests So there, there is a slight over-representation of deaths of black people. But if you just take the figures for violent crime, which is where you might expect most fatalities to occur, you get: 2017 236,590 white people arrested. 461 killed = 1 person killed per 513 arrests 151,744 black people arrested. 224 killed = 1 person killed per 677 arrests 2018 230,299 white people arrested. 456 killed = 1 person killed per 505 arrests 146,734 black people arrested. 228 killed = 1 person killed per 644 arrests So when being arrested for a violent crime, a white suspect is a bit more likely to end up dead. It should also be noted that in the vast majority of all these cases, the killing will be legally justified (i.e. they drew a weapon, were fleeing, whatever). As I said before it's an incredibly complicated picture and there are all sorts of other things you can do with the data, some of it will fall one way and some the other, but none of it paints a crystal clear picture of racial discrimination on the part of the police when you break it down. Using total population as a measure is completely meaningless because black people are massively over-represented in almost every variable when it comes to crime in the US. Finally, if you want any evidence of how harmful the BLM and media narrative is (particularly to black Americans), look no further than point #10 from that link you posted: That's three quarters of US cops who believe tensions are raised, and are less likely to engage when they see suspicious behaviour, because of high-profile (i.e. splashed across the headlines, cynically mischaracterised and with the racial element placed front and centre as in the case of Jacob Blake) fatalities involving black suspects. If young black men are being fed a narrative that tells them every interaction with a cop is a potentially life-threatening situation, more of them are going to end up dead. Both at the hands of criminals police are less likely to apprehend, and at the hands of the police because the perceived racist motive ratchets up tensions, puts police on edge, could make suspects less compliant and generally makes routine stops much more hazardous.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 28, 2020 17:34:03 GMT
It is obviously more complicated than putting up raw statistics can show.
That said, while I accept your figures about violent crime arrests, what stands out for me from your figures is the disproportionate number of arrests of non-whites generally. Remember that the 2017 population figures were approximately 3:1 white to non-white. The arrests do not bear that ratio out, and on top of that there is a disproportionate number of non-whites killed during those arrests.
Not a great look.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 28, 2020 17:55:01 GMT
It is obviously more complicated than putting up raw statistics can show. That said, while I accept your figures about violent crime arrests, what stands out for me from your figures is the disproportionate number of arrests of non-whites generally. Remember that the 2017 population figures were approximately 3:1 white to non-white. The arrests do not bear that ratio out, and on top of that there is a disproportionate number of non-whites killed during those arrests. Not a great look. Depends what you mean by "not a great look"... I mean non-white people commit way, way more crimes in the US than white people do (proportionally). Particularly violent crimes. There's all sorts of societal factors that contribute to that not being "a great look" for America, for sure, but that's the way it is. It's no surprise that arrest statistics are similarly skewed.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 28, 2020 18:10:42 GMT
It is obviously more complicated than putting up raw statistics can show. That said, while I accept your figures about violent crime arrests, what stands out for me from your figures is the disproportionate number of arrests of non-whites generally. Remember that the 2017 population figures were approximately 3:1 white to non-white. The arrests do not bear that ratio out, and on top of that there is a disproportionate number of non-whites killed during those arrests. Not a great look. Depends what you mean by "not a great look"... I mean non-white people commit way, way more crimes in the US than white people do (proportionally). Particularly violent crimes. There's all sorts of societal factors that contribute to that not being "a great look" for America, for sure, but that's they way it is. It's no surprise that arrest statistics are similarly skewed. They're certainly convicted of more that's for sure! And killed disproportionately more during arrests. But I agree, the societal aspects of black lives generally in a predominantly white country like the US is significant in that.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 28, 2020 18:41:58 GMT
Depends what you mean by "not a great look"... I mean non-white people commit way, way more crimes in the US than white people do (proportionally). Particularly violent crimes. There's all sorts of societal factors that contribute to that not being "a great look" for America, for sure, but that's they way it is. It's no surprise that arrest statistics are similarly skewed. They're certainly convicted of more that's for sure! And killed disproportionately more during arrests. But I agree, the societal aspects of black lives generally in a predominantly white country like the US is significant in that. Considering you said it's "more complicated than putting raw statistics" (I agree) you seem to be remarkably quick to use them to conclude black people are "killed disproportionately more during arrests". That's on the basis of 1 in 10000 vs 1 in 12000 - a difference of 0.002%. On the other hand you seem reluctant to accept the raw statistics when the data fall a different way. You want to highlight other things like overall arrest rates, and prefer phrases like "get convicted of" rather than "commit" crimes. If you're going to accept that the raw statistics show that "black people are killed disproportionately more during arrests", I'm afraid there is an awful lot of data in those links that could be summarised by somebody uncharitable in a way which is "not a good look" for black Americans.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 28, 2020 20:28:13 GMT
Depends what you mean by "not a great look"... I mean non-white people commit way, way more crimes in the US than white people do (proportionally). Particularly violent crimes. There's all sorts of societal factors that contribute to that not being "a great look" for America, for sure, but that's they way it is. It's no surprise that arrest statistics are similarly skewed. They're certainly convicted of more that's for sure! And killed disproportionately more during arrests. But I agree, the societal aspects of black lives generally in a predominantly white country like the US is significant in that. Here's a radical thought maybe they get convicted more because wait for it.................... they commit more crimes just a wild stab in the dark
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 28, 2020 21:38:09 GMT
I'm trying to understand the apparent disparity between mattyd2's figures which appear to show a disproportionate killing of non-whites by police when compared to Potterlog's comment that whites are more likely to end up dead at the hands of the police. I could do with seeing Potterlog's research to try to understand. edit- I'll just preface this by repeating that there is no disparity between mine and mattyd's figures. You're taking the numbers as a % of the whole population, I am looking at proportions of encounters/arrests. Ok so here are some raw figures, it's nowhere near the whole story but it's a starting point. These are based on arrests. 2017 5,626,140 white people arrested. 461 killed = 1 person killed per 12000 arrests 2,221,697 black people arrested. 224 killed = 1 person killed per 10000 arrests 2018 5,319,654 white people arrested. 456 killed = 1 person killed per 11600 arrests 2,115,381 black people arrested. 228 killed = 1 person killed per 9000 arrests So there, there is a slight over-representation of deaths of black people. But if you just take the figures for violent crime, which is where you might expect most fatalities to occur, you get: 2017 236,590 white people arrested. 461 killed = 1 person killed per 513 arrests 151,744 black people arrested. 224 killed = 1 person killed per 677 arrests 2018 230,299 white people arrested. 456 killed = 1 person killed per 505 arrests 146,734 black people arrested. 228 killed = 1 person killed per 644 arrests So when being arrested for a violent crime, a white suspect is a bit more likely to end up dead. It should also be noted that in the vast majority of all these cases, the killing will be legally justified (i.e. they drew a weapon, were fleeing, whatever). As I said before it's an incredibly complicated picture and there are all sorts of other things you can do with the data, some of it will fall one way and some the other, but none of it paints a crystal clear picture of racial discrimination on the part of the police when you break it down. Using total population as a measure is completely meaningless because black people are massively over-represented in almost every variable when it comes to crime in the US. Finally, if you want any evidence of how harmful the BLM and media narrative is (particularly to black Americans), look no further than point #10 from that link you posted: That's three quarters of US cops who believe tensions are raised, and are less likely to engage when they see suspicious behaviour, because of high-profile (i.e. splashed across the headlines, cynically mischaracterised and with the racial element placed front and centre as in the case of Jacob Blake) fatalities involving black suspects. If young black men are being fed a narrative that tells them every interaction with a cop is a potentially life-threatening situation, more of them are going to end up dead. Both at the hands of criminals police are less likely to apprehend, and at the hands of the police because the perceived racist motive ratchets up tensions, puts police on edge, could make suspects less compliant and generally makes routine stops much more hazardous. Interesting stuff. I’d love to see the figures for the U.K. I’d imagine they’re practically zero in relation to deaths per arrests despite what some would let you think.
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Post by redacted on Aug 29, 2020 7:06:42 GMT
NOT ONE OF THE SHOOTINGS OF ANY GROUPS OTHER THAN THE BLACKS HAS RESULTED IN ANY RIOTS OR PUBLIC DISORDER WHATSOEVER.[/quote]
Perhaps that's an issue in itself? BLM is a front for something that needs to happen to bring humanity back into the centre of the ring. However, it's also a stitch up. If it should fail in its mission the black man becomes the scapegoat for the collateral damage. All lives matter, like it or not, there's nothing you or anybody else can do or say to change that.
Why are we all wedded to the idea that capitalism or communism are the only options? They are constructs. The world has changed immeasurably over the years, in the sense that we as a species have unlocked and continue to unlock knowledge of the universe that we are a part of. We aren't existing within the universe, we are organic organisms that have grown with it not in it. Combining science and faith, I believe would be a great starting point. One church in which you can practice any form of faith of your choosing alongside others that do the same without fear of any sort of recriminations. Tolerance is the wrong word by design. Tolerance has a breaking point, acceptance is something else and that's why it's a word we dont see or hear all that often, unlike the word 'submit' which is everywhere. Take from that what you will.
To summarise, we are better than what we are told we are. The world we live in right now is designed to limit us, to make us servile to the great machine Messiah in the sky. If we could lay down our swords, shut our mouths, foster self respect, self love and self restraint in ourselves and others we could be bathing in the stars in no time. No hunger, no impotent rage, no thirst, no ego trip, no reason to do another man's bidding. Nothing but humanity.
It's time to re-think what life is and what it could be if we were to allow it, if we wede to give ourselves and others the permission to live.
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Post by steve66 on Aug 29, 2020 7:57:14 GMT
Number of people shot to death by the police in the United States from 2017 to 2020, by race
2017 2018 2019 2020* White 457 399 370 215 Black 223 209 235 111 Hispanic 179 148 158 71 Other 44 36 39 15
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