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Post by muggleton on Aug 24, 2020 20:05:10 GMT
I started posting on here as I'm (still) looking to buy a house in Stoke, and have had some great local advice from posters.
The reason for this thread is that I've been staying in the area recently and have seen a bit too much grimness for my liking, and am genuinely worried about the place. Hanley is well known as a dump, but it never really bothered me on previous vists. Walking through there on Saturday afternoon though it seemed to have deteriorated badly over lockdown. .
So the question is, how do you see Stoke faring over the next decade or so - will it be a better or worse place to live, or stay about the same? I'd be particularly interested in the rationale for either view as being an outsider looking in I'm only basing my opinion on what I see, and don't know the future plans for the place.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Aug 24, 2020 20:56:31 GMT
It won't get any better. There's quite a lot of interesting housing development planned around Hanley but whether it happens over the next 10 years I'll be surprised.
I haven't spent any significant time or money in Hanley for about 10 years or more, it holds utterly zero appeal. I imagine I'm not the only person who feels that way. The Internet and Brighter Futures has killed it.
Stoke in general will probably be fine, there's far worse places to live and you can get some decent property for your money.
Nothing happens quickly around here.
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Post by muggleton on Aug 24, 2020 21:07:54 GMT
It won't get any better. There's quite a lot of interesting housing development planned around Hanley but whether it happens over the next 10 years I'll be surprised. I haven't spent any significant time or money in Hanley for about 10 years or more, it holds utterly zero appeal. I imagine I'm not the only person who feels that way. The Internet and Brighter Futures has killed it. Stoke in general will probably be fine, there's far worse places to live and you can get some decent property for your money. Nothing happens quickly around here. Fair points, and one of the main attractions is the affordability. I've dealt with Brighter Futures professionally and wasn't impressed, but if they didn't exist it'd be a similar organisation dealing with intractable problems of poverty and addiction. Walking through Hanley on Saturday was the first time I felt like it was somewhere I didn't want to be - a real feel of a place going in the wrong direction. Which prompted my question.
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Post by spiderpuss on Aug 24, 2020 21:18:40 GMT
I think Stoke is at a bit of disadvantage with the 6 towns. Some are in such a shambolic state, compared to what I remember of them in the 80s, that the area facility wise is shrinking by the day. I'm thinking Burslem here, which used to have some great boozers and shops. It still has the boozers, but as a place to pop into, it's gone. I can't imagine anyone wanting to go there in the daytime. It all depends what you want from an area, parts of Stoke are really good and offer a great community coupled with a decent area. Some are struggling for sure. In the next decade or so I see some shopping areas wiped out, they won't survive and that even applies to Hanley. The demolished area around the Argos/Bus station I believe still remains undeveloped. It's a massive area of brown land. I'm not sure if anyone wants to build there right now. Newcastle isn't immune and the land that used to be Sainsbury's and the council offices are still unused. There's no real history or anything really going to help bring anyone in. It's an ever decreasing cycle unfortunately. It's not a just a Stoke thing though, it's affecting every town, bar a few. There's some quite well off town centres that have seen their M&S, House of Fraser and Debenhams just closed for good. Massive shops never to open again. As I mentioned Stoke has 6 of these areas, not just 1.
I will be rebasing myself in Stoke, but I have the leg-up of already knowing people here. I think I will be fine, but I get your apprehension. Choose reasonable areas you like when you visit and take it from there.
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Post by muggleton on Aug 24, 2020 21:40:44 GMT
I think Stoke is at a bit of disadvantage with the 6 towns. Some are in such a shambolic state, compared to what I remember of them in the 80s, that the area facility wise is shrinking by the day. I'm thinking Burslem here, which used to have some great boozers and shops. It still has the boozers, but as a place to pop into, it's gone. I can't imagine anyone wanting to go there in the daytime. It all depends what you want from an area, parts of Stoke are really good and offer a great community coupled with a decent area. Some are struggling for sure. In the next decade or so I see some shopping areas wiped out, they won't survive and that even applies to Hanley. The demolished area around the Argos/Bus station I believe still remains undeveloped. It's a massive area of brown land. I'm not sure if anyone wants to build there right now. Newcastle isn't immune and the land that used to be Sainsbury's and the council offices are still unused. There's no real history or anything really going to help bring anyone in. It's an ever decreasing cycle unfortunately. It's not a just a Stoke thing though, it's affecting every town, bar a few. There's some quite well off town centres that have seen their M&S, House of Fraser and Debenhams just closed for good. Massive shops never to open again. As I mentioned Stoke has 6 of these areas, not just 1. I will be rebasing myself in Stoke, but I have the leg-up of already knowing people here. I think I will be fine, but I get your apprehension. Choose reasonable areas you like when you visit and take it from there. Appreciate you taking the time to respond mate. Definitely some specific disadvantages in Stoke's make-up alright - I've been in all of the town centres and none of them are great. When major centres are struggling, then smaller dispersed ones like those have little chance. The worry would be the local ones are entering a difficult period from an already weakened position (which I suppose is nothing new for those of you who've seen out previous recessions here). This recession looks like it'll be the biggest of my lifetime, and it scares the life out of me to see places and people struggling so badly before it's properly hit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2020 21:47:21 GMT
As soon as this shit's settled down, I'm getting the hell out. Well, that's the plan. I'd have probably done it a few years ago, but have been tied here until recent changes in circumstances.
Literally, the only slight saving grace for me, is the low cost of property, which is among the lowest in the UK, and it is so, for good reason.
The place is getting worse year on year. There are flickers of hope, bits of investment in Hanley, etc, but what's required to get Stoke on Trent back on the map, requires someone to tear up the blueprint and start again. Along with the money to deliver it.
It's maybe not too dissimilar to lots of 'nothing' towns and cities to be fair; but I've seen enough to tell me that the time is right for a change.
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Post by bucknall67 on Aug 24, 2020 22:59:51 GMT
As soon as this shit's settled down, I'm getting the hell out. Well, that's the plan. I'd have probably done it a few years ago, but have been tied here until recent changes in circumstances. Literally, the only slight saving grace for me, is the low cost of property, which is among the lowest in the UK, and it is so, for good reason. The place is getting worse year on year. There are flickers of hope, bits of investment in Hanley, etc, but what's required to get Stoke on Trent back on the map, requires someone to tear up the blueprint and start again. Along with the money to deliver it. It's maybe not too dissimilar to lots of 'nothing' towns and cities to be fair; but I've seen enough to tell me that the time is right for a change. I was saying something along the same lines the other day to the wife. We need a council that is forward thinking and ready to get some investment into the city. Unfortunately we don't appear to have that council and haven't for many years.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 0:26:01 GMT
The council appear to be some wierd semi business entity in stoke and not some place you go and pay bills now and again.
Their major plan seems to be moving council offices now and again and fucking up investment projects like city sentral or whatever it was meant to be which turned out to be a cinema and a fucking nandos. Down the road from a cinema and a fucking nandos.
I was looking at spode the other day and thinking if it could be bought turned into seething decent like old cains brewery in Liverpool.
But then what would be the point as there no money in stoke Town centre and on sunny days it looks like some spice/zombie appocolypse....
So 6 towns, incompetent council, lack of ideas, obvious lack of policing, lack of investment as lack of disposable income.
So back to the original point move to the best place you can for the money you have. Go Hanley once a year at Xmas and swear to never go again, go the town centre on match days and go brum, Liverpool or Manchester if you want to do something/eat/shop.
Yet I've moved away a few times and always end up oddly missing it and coming back.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 7:58:11 GMT
If you want to see a microcosm of what Stoke has become, go over to SOTLive and read the latest gushing review of Longton. Sadly, Longton's the closest 'town' to me, and I go into it probably once a month - always because I need something specific like the Bank, and I'm straight in and out. It's a fucking dump. It's probably still in better nick than Tunstall or Burslem, but christ, it's a joke of a place.
Loads of people I know are the same; "when was the last time you went into Hanley for a non-neccesity? 3 years ago" etc...
As mentioned before, buy what you can afford. If you can afford to 'not have' to live in SOT, then imo, look elsewhere.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 25, 2020 8:13:36 GMT
If you want to see a microcosm of what Stoke has become, go over to SOTLive and really the latest gushing review of Longton. Sadly, Longton's the closest 'town' to me, and I go into it probably once a month - always because I need something specific like the Bank, and I'm straight in and out. It's a fucking dump. It's probably still in better nick than Tunstall or Burslem, but christ, it's a joke of a place. Loads of people I know are the same; "when was the last time you went into Hanley for a non-neccesity? 3 years ago" etc... As mentioned before, buy what you can afford. If you can afford to 'not have' to live in SOT, then imo, look elsewhere. Been reading it this morning, the local news is awash with this kind of stuff every day. It’ll only get worse. The decline in the city over the last 10 years is stark. Like you say, Stoke isn’t alone in the degradation of English cities. The drug abuse and homelessness is blighting the whole country at the moment and I don’t see any way back at the moment. The reason I’ve stayed in England and specifically Stoke is the people but that is slowly being eroded. So how is it solved? I’m not sure it can be or ever will. There are plenty of pleasant respectable areas still where house prices are very low but how long before these are taken over as well. I’m seriously considering emigrating which is a shame because there’s no place like home. Unfortunately home is becoming a lawless, drug riddled pit of despair! I think I’ll miss the pubs though😳
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 25, 2020 8:15:32 GMT
I started posting on here as I'm (still) looking to buy a house in Stoke, and have had some great local advice from posters. The reason for this thread is that I've been staying in the area recently and have seen a bit too much grimness for my liking, and am genuinely worried about the place. Hanley is well known as a dump, but it never really bothered me on previous vists. Walking through there on Saturday afternoon though it seemed to have deteriorated badly over lockdown. . So the question is, how do you see Stoke faring over the next decade or so - will it be a better or worse place to live, or stay about the same? I'd be particularly interested in the rationale for either view as being an outsider looking in I'm only basing my opinion on what I see, and don't know the future plans for the place. Get ye sen down Caverswall we have a great Castle , The Red House Pub , and the stocks in the square to put ya Mrs in when she pisses you off , also the knocks pub up the road and Caverswall Cricket club to , surrounded by countryside everywhere, 5 min from A50 and Tesco’s , Maccys etc , brilliant place to live
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Post by flea79 on Aug 25, 2020 8:53:25 GMT
i love it here but its the people that keep me about, i was rescued as a boy by stoke people, they took me in and made me one of them, its home for me
although i remember one of the saddest days i remember being in Hanley on the final day of trading for Woolworths when it was being picked apart for shelving units, its never been the same
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 25, 2020 9:12:58 GMT
i love it here but its the people that keep me about, i was rescued as a boy by stoke people, they took me in and made me one of them, its home for me although i remember one of the saddest days i remember being in Hanley on the final day of trading for Woolworths when it was being picked apart for shelving units, its never been the same Like the woolys in Longton that was taken over by those nice Asian ppl who grew there exotic herbal plants just a stones throw from Longton nick 😎
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 25, 2020 9:13:23 GMT
i love it here but its the people that keep me about, i was rescued as a boy by stoke people, they took me in and made me one of them, its home for me although i remember one of the saddest days i remember being in Hanley on the final day of trading for Woolworths when it was being picked apart for shelving units, its never been the same Like the woolys in Longton that was taken over by those nice Asian ppl who grew there exotic herbal plants just a stones throw from Longton nick 😎 🤣 Never mind a stones throw. I reckon I could lob a dwarf that far! Unbelievable
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 25, 2020 9:58:54 GMT
Like the woolys in Longton that was taken over by those nice Asian ppl who grew there exotic herbal plants just a stones throw from Longton nick 😎 🤣 Never mind a stones throw. I reckon I could lob a dwarf that far! Unbelievable 😂😂 isn’t Dwarf throwing banned now 😎
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 25, 2020 10:00:21 GMT
🤣 Never mind a stones throw. I reckon I could lob a dwarf that far! Unbelievable 😂😂 isn’t Dwarf throwing banned now 😎 Seemingly anything goes in Longton😏
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Post by spiderpuss on Aug 25, 2020 10:44:41 GMT
An issue we have now is these shiny new retail parks are also becoming under threat. I read this morning that DW sports is closing down - it's a brand new store. If we can't get shops into these new areas then the writing is on the wall for a lot of it. You only have to drive up the M1 corridor to find out where our high streets have vanished to. Monster (and I mean M O N S T E R) warehouses for the Internet giants. Every time Northampton & Bedfordshire council agree a new aircraft hanger development, you can bank on another high street going to the wall.
It's what we do with the space that is being freed up by the traditional shops is the key here. As was mentioned last night on Newsnight, it's better not to persist with something, but what you do with the resources once they are available. It would appear Stoke council are overwhelmed here and cannot cope with so many disparate areas that are now becoming available.
As has been mentioned Stoke is about the people and that is the ONLY thing that means I will have a base here. If that goes the way of the Dodo then it will have to be pastures new. Thankfully it looks like that is sound right now.
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Post by muggleton on Aug 25, 2020 11:14:36 GMT
Sobering stuff lads, but appreciate your input.
I've lived in half a dozen towns/cities and have never come across one where the outlook of the locals themselves is so bleak. Coming from folk with an obvious affinity with the place and its people is really concerning.
I've never felt threatened in S-O-T, and have drank in some of the less salubrious ends of town, but there just feels like there's a general malaise about the place that drags people down. More power to anyone doing their bit to address this, but it's a big job and needs a serious plan and massive investment.
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Post by muggleton on Aug 25, 2020 11:16:55 GMT
The council appear to be some wierd semi business entity in stoke and not some place you go and pay bills now and again. Their major plan seems to be moving council offices now and again and fucking up investment projects like city sentral or whatever it was meant to be which turned out to be a cinema and a fucking nandos. Down the road from a cinema and a fucking nandos. I was looking at spode the other day and thinking if it could be bought turned into seething decent like old cains brewery in Liverpool. But then what would be the point as there no money in stoke Town centre and on sunny days it looks like some spice/zombie appocolypse.... So 6 towns, incompetent council, lack of ideas, obvious lack of policing, lack of investment as lack of disposable income. So back to the original point move to the best place you can for the money you have. Go Hanley once a year at Xmas and swear to never go again, go the town centre on match days and go brum, Liverpool or Manchester if you want to do something/eat/shop. Yet I've moved away a few times and always end up oddly missing it and coming back. The Cains Brewery site is great, but don't see it transferring to Stoke unfortunately. Piccadilly looks the best bet for anyone local into that kind of thing.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 25, 2020 11:18:46 GMT
It is difficult to imagine what will happen to Stoke on Trent over the next decade or generation. The city created by the industrial revolution of ceramics, coal, and steel. That era is over with a small amount of ceramics left. The reason that remains is the talent of the people. Hanley benefitted from the growth of shopping and entertainment in the post war era, but that has declined with firstly "out of town" shopping centres, home entertainment, and nowadays the demise of the highstreet due to online shopping. Things have declined further with cheap booze from supermarkets and the indoors smoking ban severely damaging public houses, which will suffering another downturn in trade due to the pandemic.
Unfortunately whilst this has occurred over the past half century, there has been little entrepreneurship to build the future. The only real success being bet365 over the last 20 years.
Stoke position is not unique, but there have been areas of the country that have reinvented themselves. County Durham used to be full of grotty little mining villages. The mines and other industries have gone and now Co D is full of beautiful little rural villages which are commuter residential areas for the connurbations of Tyneside, Wearside, and Teesside.
So looking to the future. The first thing that needs to happen is to tidy up the city. This needs a huge injection of cash and it incumbent on the new Tory MPs to get Boris Johnson to the city and get a major capital injection to improve roads, parks, demolish what isn't needed etc. The future for town centres is tea roome/coffee shops, night clubs, antique shops, hairdressers/nail bars/tattooists, etc.
There is a need to generate long term employment. Stoke is well placed logistically, hence the transport businesses in the area. With the growth of home shopping is going to lead to a need for more major distribution centres. I can see the possibility of automated shopping centres where robotic systems make up buyers grocery orders which are then loaded into vans for distribution to homes. With more home working almost everywhere can become a residential area like those villages in Co.D., but the prerequisite is to make areas attractive, with plenty of open spaces and park land. A concerted effort to remove all the redundant derelict premises in Stoke on Trent does make that possible.
But all that will not happen without the desire, ambition, and effort of the people. That requires leadership, finance, and hard work. Stand up the new Tory MPs, stand up the entrepreneurs, stand up the philanthropists. It will only happen if there are the people to make it happen and the support of the community.
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Post by muggleton on Aug 25, 2020 11:20:24 GMT
As soon as this shit's settled down, I'm getting the hell out. Well, that's the plan. I'd have probably done it a few years ago, but have been tied here until recent changes in circumstances. Literally, the only slight saving grace for me, is the low cost of property, which is among the lowest in the UK, and it is so, for good reason. The place is getting worse year on year. There are flickers of hope, bits of investment in Hanley, etc, but what's required to get Stoke on Trent back on the map, requires someone to tear up the blueprint and start again. Along with the money to deliver it. It's maybe not too dissimilar to lots of 'nothing' towns and cities to be fair; but I've seen enough to tell me that the time is right for a change. I was saying something along the same lines the other day to the wife. We need a council that is forward thinking and ready to get some investment into the city. Unfortunately we don't appear to have that council and haven't for many years. I'd be interested in how many on here vote in council elections, and whether they've noticed a difference from Labour domination through the BNP horror show to the Tory/Independent control now. I suspect the size of the task is beyond ANY council or political party, so they end up tinkering around the edges to look busy. I'm solidly Labour, but not sure of any achievements from their years in power locally?
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Post by tonythefox on Aug 25, 2020 11:24:06 GMT
I think the high street not just in Stoke-On-Trent but most cities and towns similar to Stoke will get worse unfortunately, Internet shopping being the main culprit plus increasing crime / anti social behaviour and the reasons behind it are keeping folk away, Amazon has a massive effect on shopping and footfall on the high street, they apparently pay no tax and are poor employers so they give nothing back , unbelievable..
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Post by muggleton on Aug 25, 2020 11:31:53 GMT
I think the high street not just in Stoke-On-Trent but most cities and towns similar to Stoke will get worse unfortunately, Internet shopping being the main culprit plus increasing crime / anti social behaviour and the reasons behind it are keeping folk away, Amazon has a massive effect on shopping and footfall on the high street, they apparently pay no tax and are poor employers so they give nothing back , unbelievable.. You're preaching to the choir on the evils of Amazon mate, but the effects of the coming changes won't be felt equally across the country. I think Stoke's make up puts it at a particular disadvantage though with each of the town centres being hollowed out, instead of having one city centre that'd be in a better position to survive.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Aug 25, 2020 11:38:13 GMT
I think the high street not just in Stoke-On-Trent but most cities and towns similar to Stoke will get worse unfortunately, Internet shopping being the main culprit plus increasing crime / anti social behaviour and the reasons behind it are keeping folk away, Amazon has a massive effect on shopping and footfall on the high street, they apparently pay no tax and are poor employers so they give nothing back , unbelievable.. You're preaching to the choir on the evils of Amazon mate, but the effects of the coming changes won't be felt equally across the country. I think Stoke's make up puts it at a particular disadvantage though with each of the town centres being hollowed out, instead of having one city centre that'd be in a better position to survive. I think if it had a bigger city centre it would just be an amplified version of the shocking states the 6 are in. The concept of a city centre needs to move away from a shopping hub to an entertainment/arts venue.
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Post by muggleton on Aug 25, 2020 11:58:04 GMT
You're preaching to the choir on the evils of Amazon mate, but the effects of the coming changes won't be felt equally across the country. I think Stoke's make up puts it at a particular disadvantage though with each of the town centres being hollowed out, instead of having one city centre that'd be in a better position to survive. I think if it had a bigger city centre it would just be an amplified version of the shocking states the 6 are in. The concept of a city centre needs to move away from a shopping hub to an entertainment/arts venue. Possibly, though businesses (retail/entertainment/whatever) would have more chance of getting the footfall needed to survive, and the influx of normal people would dilute the impact of the more problematic visitors. The walk I had through Hanley on Saturday afternoon was as grim as I've ever seen anywhere. For that to be classed as the 'city centre' for somewhere with the population of S-o-T is really poor. Through in the population of the wider area and there's plenty of people to support a vibrant urban centre. As others gave said in this thread though, anyone with the means to get to Brum/Liverpool/Manchester goes there to get what Stoke can't give them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 12:39:18 GMT
I started posting on here as I'm (still) looking to buy a house in Stoke, and have had some great local advice from posters. The reason for this thread is that I've been staying in the area recently and have seen a bit too much grimness for my liking, and am genuinely worried about the place. Hanley is well known as a dump, but it never really bothered me on previous vists. Walking through there on Saturday afternoon though it seemed to have deteriorated badly over lockdown. . So the question is, how do you see Stoke faring over the next decade or so - will it be a better or worse place to live, or stay about the same? I'd be particularly interested in the rationale for either view as being an outsider looking in I'm only basing my opinion on what I see, and don't know the future plans for the place. You moaned about about the price of breakfast and granary toast at a place where they are trying to make Hanley a bit different 🙂
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Post by neworleanstokie on Aug 25, 2020 13:16:29 GMT
I left in 84 but plan on spending summers there when I retire in 2030. There's a lot to like if you are retired and can afford to live outside of the 6 towns. Wonderful countryside, affordable golf, proximity to MAN, friendly locals (for the most part) and very affordable property.
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Post by tonythefox on Aug 25, 2020 13:17:19 GMT
I think the high street not just in Stoke-On-Trent but most cities and towns similar to Stoke will get worse unfortunately, Internet shopping being the main culprit plus increasing crime / anti social behaviour and the reasons behind it are keeping folk away, Amazon has a massive effect on shopping and footfall on the high street, they apparently pay no tax and are poor employers so they give nothing back , unbelievable.. You're preaching to the choir on the evils of Amazon mate, but the effects of the coming changes won't be felt equally across the country. I think Stoke's make up puts it at a particular disadvantage though with each of the town centres being hollowed out, instead of having one city centre that'd be in a better position to survive. Yep a distinct town centre would be good I would personally make that town centre Stoke itself to save the confusion, a merger with N U L would be beneficial for all too ..
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Post by desman2 on Aug 25, 2020 13:27:27 GMT
You're preaching to the choir on the evils of Amazon mate, but the effects of the coming changes won't be felt equally across the country. I think Stoke's make up puts it at a particular disadvantage though with each of the town centres being hollowed out, instead of having one city centre that'd be in a better position to survive. Yep a distinct town centre would be good I would personally make that town centre Stoke itself to save the confusion, a merger with N U L would be beneficial for all too .. NUL is at least trying to progress. Stoke looks like a working museum from the blitz. No thanks.
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Post by danceswithclams on Aug 25, 2020 13:31:50 GMT
Yep a distinct town centre would be good I would personally make that town centre Stoke itself to save the confusion, a merger with N U L would be beneficial for all too .. NUL is at least trying to progress. Stoke looks like a working museum from the blitz. No thanks. Are you sure about that? There's great swathes of crumbling land where the old Sainsbury's was demolished, the old council offices and Police station are still boarded up, there's a half finished new development next to Jubilee Baths that's been stuck in a state of arrested development for nearly 2 years, and there's been a noted increase of anti-social behaviour perpetrated by drug-addled scumbags on the Iron Market/Sunken Roundabout. It might look a bit better aesthetically but the same problems are there.
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