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Post by mattyd2 on Aug 22, 2020 10:15:28 GMT
Always been something of a debate.
Traditionally the 6 towns were Hanley, Stoke, Burslem, Fenton, Longton & Tunstall
But in Arnold Bennett's novels he never wrote about Fenton, people often refer to Fenton as the forgotten town, for many reasons, And dotted around the Potteries you do see businesses carrying the name 5 Towns, 5 Towns Lettings, 5 Towns Antiques etc etc etc.
Interestingly ( well I think so ) Bennett changed the names of the 5 towns in his novels to Tunstall.. Turnhill
Burslem... Bursley
Hanley.. Hanbridge
Stoke. Knype
Longton. Longshaw
Stoke to Knype is an interesting one, must elude to Knypersly.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 22, 2020 10:19:31 GMT
Always been something of a debate. Traditionally the 6 towns were Hanley, Stoke, Burslem, Fenton, Longton & Tunstall But in Arnold Bennett's novels he never wrote about Fenton, people often refer to Fenton as the forgotten town, for many reasons, And dotted around the Potteries you do see businesses carrying the name 5 Towns, 5 Towns Lettings, 5 Towns Antiques etc etc etc. Interestingly ( well I think so ) Bennett changed the names of the 5 towns in his novels to Tunstall.. Turnhill Burslem... Bursley Hanley.. Hanbridge Stoke. Knype Longton. Longshaw Stoke to Knype is an interesting one, must elude to Knypersly. Actually, it’s 7! Hanley and Shelton merged in the middle of the 19th century to form one town Hanley!
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Post by elystokie on Aug 22, 2020 10:48:16 GMT
I read somewhere that Fenton, the forgotten town, is actually the largest geographically.
Doesn't really have much of a town centre unfortunately, worth going just for the Art Bay tho.
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 27, 2020 7:21:44 GMT
I always remember Burslem as being Bosley, rather than Bursly, but that might have just been a result of local pronunciation.
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 27, 2020 7:26:29 GMT
Ppl now refer Longton to shithole
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 27, 2020 7:34:05 GMT
I also think it is interesting, if you are in the area, how many local districts can be reasonably identified with an identity of their own, such as Blurton and Talke. Foley for example was a part of Longton that in the 19th century was significant enought to be the home of several potteries carrying the Foley name in their title. I have never thought about it as such but presumably Trentham is another area in its own right.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Aug 27, 2020 8:44:03 GMT
Foley is in Fenton I believe?
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Post by PotteringThrough on Aug 27, 2020 9:05:56 GMT
Foley is in Fenton I believe? The borderlands between Longton and Fenton?
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 27, 2020 10:06:08 GMT
Foley is a small district, alongside King Street in Fenton, and yes I suppose it is in Fenton, near the border with Longton.
In the late 1800's there were at least 5 factories in the area making pottery and using the Foley name as part of their title, such as The Foley China.This situation led to legal disputes amongst the manufacturers, from about 1910 onwards, over titles and branding, with the result being that the Wileman Foley China concern, for example, being relaunched in 1925 to become the eventually much more famous Shelley, after Joseph B Shelley, one of the former partners in the Wileman company.
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Post by AlliG on Aug 27, 2020 11:31:12 GMT
I also think it is interesting, if you are in the area, how many local districts can be reasonably identified with an identity of their own, such as Blurton and Talke. Foley for example was a part of Longton that in the 19th century was significant enought to be the home of several potteries carrying the Foley name in their title. I have never thought about it as such but presumably Trentham is another area in its own right. Even as recently as the end of World War 2 there was very little housing and plenty of farmland between "old" Blurton and Trentham, so Trentham was very definitely a place in its own right. Trentham Road used to be a fairly minor road before it was straightened. (Even in the early 1960s I can remember a number of accidents where people hit the lamppost at the bottom of my grandparents garden. Fortunately I was not there the morning they found a dead motorcyclist in the hedge). My great grandfather used to farm what is now the Newstead side of Trentham Road and his family built a lot of the houses from the Cafe Royal (corner of Rippon Road) down towards what is now Newstead Industrial Estate in the 1920s/30s. (I have a photo of my Gran just before she got married standing by the petrol pumps outside the Cafe Royal. They were selling "Summer Shell" at the time, so presumably there was also a winter version at the time). My Mum can still name probably 30 families who lived in that stretch of Trentham Road and what relation they were.
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 27, 2020 11:47:11 GMT
There was recently a thread about the Cable Car on the Trentham Estate. A view was expressed by a poster that Trentham Gardens was in the borough or district of Stafford and they may be right. But surely if Hem Heath is part of Stoke, then Trentham must be as well.
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Post by neworleanstokie on Aug 27, 2020 12:54:24 GMT
There was recently a thread about the Cable Car on the Trentham Estate. A view was expressed by a poster that Trentham Gardens was in the borough or district of Stafford and they may be right. But surely if Hem Heath is part of Stoke, then Trentham must be as well. Trentham Estate is Stafford Borough.
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Post by deadwait on Aug 27, 2020 13:15:04 GMT
There was recently a thread about the Cable Car on the Trentham Estate. A view was expressed by a poster that Trentham Gardens was in the borough or district of Stafford and they may be right. But surely if Hem Heath is part of Stoke, then Trentham must be as well. Trentham IS in the city of Stoke-on-Trent.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 27, 2020 14:43:42 GMT
Foley is a small distict, alongside King Street in Fenton, and yes I suppose it is in Fenton, near the border with Longton. In the late 1800's there were at least 5 factories in the area making pottery and using the Foley name as part of their title, such as The Foley China.This situation led to legal disputes amongst the manufacturers, from about 1910 onwards, over titles and branding, with the result being that the Wileman Foley China concern, for example, being relaunched in 1925 to become the eventually much more famous Shelley, after Joseph B Shelley, one of the former partners in the Wileman company. In the second half of the 60s, when I was a student, I got a summer holiday job in a pot bank in Fenton (Bute Street I think) which made industrial ceramic products like electrical insulators. Mike Pejic did the temp job the summer before me.
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Post by mattyd2 on Aug 27, 2020 16:00:01 GMT
Foley is a small distict, alongside King Street in Fenton, and yes I suppose it is in Fenton, near the border with Longton. In the late 1800's there were at least 5 factories in the area making pottery and using the Foley name as part of their title, such as The Foley China.This situation led to legal disputes amongst the manufacturers, from about 1910 onwards, over titles and branding, with the result being that the Wileman Foley China concern, for example, being relaunched in 1925 to become the eventually much more famous Shelley, after Joseph B Shelley, one of the former partners in the Wileman company. I bet that is what Shelleys nightclub was named after...What a shithole that place was...JUST THE PITS.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Aug 27, 2020 18:15:52 GMT
Didn't Bennett leave Fenton out because its where his Mother-in-Law came from?
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 27, 2020 18:26:15 GMT
Didn't Bennett leave Fenton out because its where his Mother-in-Law came from? Enoch produced his major works around 1900-1910. If he'd written them 30 years later he could well have left out Bursley, for similar reasons of sentiment, as the damned home of Port Vale fc. I'm pretty sure that being from Hanley he was probably a Stokie.
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Post by deadwait on Aug 27, 2020 19:44:27 GMT
Didn't Bennett leave Fenton out because its where his Mother-in-Law came from? Enoch produced his major works around 1900-1910. If he'd written them 30 years later he could well have left out Bursley, for similar reasons of sentiment, as the dammed home of Port Vale fc. I'm pretty sure that being from Hanley he was probably a Stokie. I do not believe football featured much in any of Bennetts novels. However in Matador of the Five Towns there is several pages referring to a match in which Knype (Stoke City)are playing Manchester Rovers. So, shall we give him the doubt and suggest he was a Stokie !
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Post by cerebralstokie on Aug 27, 2020 19:47:03 GMT
I knew an old lady who lived in Blurton when it was still a village. She remembered hearing corncrakes in the field behind her cottage. Also in 1954 (I think) a film was made of Bennett's "The Card". Black and white with lots of smoking bottle ovens. From the book, I got the impression that Newcastle, a much older settlement, considered itself a cut above the Pottery towns.
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Post by lordb on Aug 27, 2020 20:23:59 GMT
I knew an old lady who lived in Blurton when it was still a village. She remembered hearing corncrakes in the field behind her cottage. Also in 1954 (I think) a film was made of Bennett's "The Card". Black and white with lots of smoking bottle ovens. From the book, I got the impression that Newcastle, a much older settlement, considered itself a cut above the Pottery towns. That's because it is, got trees and everything
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Post by lordb on Aug 27, 2020 20:25:02 GMT
There was recently a thread about the Cable Car on the Trentham Estate. A view was expressed by a poster that Trentham Gardens was in the borough or district of Stafford and they may be right. But surely if Hem Heath is part of Stoke, then Trentham must be as well. Trentham IS in the city of Stoke-on-Trent. Trentham is, Trentham Gardens isn't
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 27, 2020 23:49:37 GMT
Didn't Bennett leave Fenton out because its where his Mother-in-Law came from? Fenton was not classified as a town until 1910,eight years after the book was wrote.It was at the time two districts Great Fenton and Little Fenton.
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Post by somersetstokie on Aug 28, 2020 7:26:45 GMT
I can remember when the Bennett precinct was built in Longton, and named in honour of the great man. Must have been around 1960 and it was one of the very first pedestrianised shopping areas.
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Post by elystokie on Aug 28, 2020 7:43:03 GMT
Didn't Bennett leave Fenton out because its where his Mother-in-Law came from? Fenton was not classified as a town until 1910,eight years after the book was wrote.It was at the time two districts Great Fenton and Little Fenton. I never knew that, I've always believed it was just because he thought it sounded better, no idea where I got that from. Fenton covers a surprisingly big area, any idea which bits the 2 districts were?
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 28, 2020 8:15:01 GMT
Fenton was not classified as a town until 1910,eight years after the book was wrote.It was at the time two districts Great Fenton and Little Fenton. I never knew that, I've always believed it was just because he thought it sounded better, no idea where I got that from. Fenton covers a surprisingly big area, any idea which bits the 2 districts were? Yes Great Fenton was in the area around Heron Cross and Little Fenton was around the city road area. Fenton is the largest geographical area and the most populous in the potteries,with a fascinating history. One thing which a few may not know is that Stokes ground is in Fenton too.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 28, 2020 10:30:46 GMT
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Post by elystokie on Aug 28, 2020 10:43:00 GMT
Interesting, I always thought 'ton' had similar etymology to town, from the Saxon 'tun'.
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Post by Orbs on Aug 28, 2020 10:46:19 GMT
linkMate sent me this the other day. I'd say it was a pretty accurate description of the area.
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Post by deadwait on Aug 28, 2020 11:27:21 GMT
Trentham IS in the city of Stoke-on-Trent. Trentham is, Trentham Gardens isn't Trentham Gardens, Stone Road, Stoke-on-Trent, ST4 8JG.
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Post by elystokie on Aug 28, 2020 11:41:12 GMT
linkMate sent me this the other day. I'd say it was a pretty accurate description of the area. It's very well written with some excellent observations. Interesting comment about making Burslem a centre for all things art and one which I agree with, each town should try and focus on something specific in my opinion, make themselves the local go to place for whatever it may be, art, antiques, pottery etc.
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