|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 8, 2020 12:58:51 GMT
The Sentinel article and the soon to be published Council minutes will likely lead to further fans suggestions. All of these have been and will be passed on to the Club. No idea is a bad idea whilst the ground rules for fans being allowed back are being established. The Council feel that it is too early to pass judgement or debate without the full facts. However as I said the club were very open regarding ideas and collaboration. As we all realise, this is a very challenging problem to deal with and managing everyone’s expectations will be difficult. What puzzles me about this, Angela, is that I wrote to the Club about consultation on this and received the following reply on 21 July. In relation to crowds returning, we will work as hard as we can to ensure as many fans as possible can return (safely) at the very earliest opportunity. However, we don’t think that it’s workable to consult the wider fan-base on the matter which is very different to what is said in the Sentinel article and what you say here. For most fans I don't think The Sentinel is (or should be) the go-to source for information about the Club. For example, I only found out about the Supporters Council meeting on 30 July discussing this topic by accident. I am mystified that it wasn't on the Club website, which seems an obvious place to start. Most of the health and safety stuff will be laid down for the Club by the Government, the SGSA and the local SAG, although there will be still some scope for supporters suggestions on how this is done, such as Lakeland's idea that if we have staggered arrival times, the distance someone has to travel should be a factor in allocating slots ( which may or may not be a controversial suggestion for locally-based fans). The key issue of how tickets are allocated if demand exceeds supply will however be a decision for the club. It is interesting that the Council has received many suggestions, which it has passed on to the club. It's nice to know that the Club have thanked supporters for these but as I stated above, I think they should be published by the Council or the Club ( just as people have posted ideas on here) without the identity of the proposer (which is irrelevant). As you rightly say, this is a very challenging problem to deal with and managing everyone’s expectations will be difficult. That is precisely why maximum transparency is essential if supporters' confidence in the Club and the Council is to be retained.
|
|
|
Post by bridget on Aug 8, 2020 13:26:07 GMT
I have asked the club to clarify a number of times how many season tickets were sold before the deadline in April but have yet to receive a response.
As you say you would think the club would use their own media outlet to communicate with fans and not rely on the local newspaper. I feel that they are only giving lip service to any consultation process and will infact simply implement whichever option provides the grestest return for the club.
The loyalty shown by many fans over many years will most likely be completely disregarded.
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on Aug 8, 2020 13:37:50 GMT
I have asked the club to clarify a number of times how many season tickets were sold before the deadline in April but have yet to receive a response. As you say you would think the club would use their own media outlet to communicate with fans and not rely on the local newspaper. I feel that they are only giving lip service to any consultation process and will infact simply implement whichever option provides the grestest return for the club. The loyalty shown by many fans over many years will most likely be completely disregarded. Why should loyalty come in to it and how are you measuring loyalty? Tattoo Naming a child after stoke player Most expenditure at the club I hate these type of I'm a better fan than you threads. Anyway if you are stupid enough to think going to a football stadium is a good idea in the current environment, then good luck to you. Seriously anyone thinking this is a good idea has a total disregard for anyone other than themself
|
|
|
Post by bridget on Aug 8, 2020 13:43:28 GMT
Loyalty is measured by the current loyalty point scheme as instigated by the club and run by them for about the last 10 years.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 8, 2020 14:26:18 GMT
I have asked the club to clarify a number of times how many season tickets were sold before the deadline in April but have yet to receive a response. As you say you would think the club would use their own media outlet to communicate with fans and not rely on the local newspaper. I feel that they are only giving lip service to any consultation process and will infact simply implement whichever option provides the grestest return for the club. The loyalty shown by many fans over many years will most likely be completely disregarded. Why should loyalty come in to it and how are you measuring loyalty? Tattoo Naming a child after stoke player Most expenditure at the club I hate these type of I'm a better fan than you threads. Anyway if you are stupid enough to think going to a football stadium is a good idea in the current environment, then good luck to you. Seriously anyone thinking this is a good idea has a total disregard for anyone other than themself I think that's unfair. It's perfectly legitimate to have the view that the purchase of a season card over a number of years should count for something. A bit like say Boots loyalty points if you like. It's not a view I personally hold because I don't think new or relatively new season card holders should be disadvantaged, but to try to ridicule it by reference to tattoos or children's names or characeture it as I'm a better fan than you doesn't help respectful debate. Neither is it fair to say that anyone deciding to go is showing disregard for others. The Government and the SGSA decide what are appropriate restrictions and prohibitions on public health grounds, and as we have seen these can change very quickly based on the spread of the virus. That might well happen with football. But if and when crowds are allowed, so long as people obey whatever rules are in place, it's not reasonable to castigate them for going to games.
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on Aug 8, 2020 14:38:08 GMT
Why should loyalty come in to it and how are you measuring loyalty? Tattoo Naming a child after stoke player Most expenditure at the club I hate these type of I'm a better fan than you threads. Anyway if you are stupid enough to think going to a football stadium is a good idea in the current environment, then good luck to you. Seriously anyone thinking this is a good idea has a total disregard for anyone other than themself I think that's unfair. It's perfectly legitimate to have the view that the purchase of a season card over a number of years should count for something. A bit like say Boots loyalty points if you like. It's not a view I personally hold because I don't think new or relatively new season card holders should be disadvantaged, but to try to ridicule it by reference to tattoos or children's names or characeture it as I'm a better fan than you doesn't help respectful debate. Neither is it fair to say that anyone deciding to go is showing disregard for others. The Government and the SGSA decide what are appropriate restrictions and prohibitions on public health grounds, and as we have seen these can change very quickly based on the spread of the virus. That might well happen with football. But if and when crowds are allowed, so long as people obey whatever rules are in place, it's not reasonable to castigate them for going to games. Ok I'll bite So you are basically ignore common sense, ignore science. If the government says it's ok, it's ok. This is absolute bull@@@@. As you correctly note they will pivot at the drop of a hat. It is clear that this winter will be a serious threat to the vulnerable. I'd like to think as a society we behave accordingly. Visiting the ground is not essential no matter what anybody here says. For sure donate the money but zero requirement to be there other than for personal selfish reasons. Same as holidays, etc etc.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 8, 2020 14:50:40 GMT
I think that's unfair. It's perfectly legitimate to have the view that the purchase of a season card over a number of years should count for something. A bit like say Boots loyalty points if you like. It's not a view I personally hold because I don't think new or relatively new season card holders should be disadvantaged, but to try to ridicule it by reference to tattoos or children's names or characeture it as I'm a better fan than you doesn't help respectful debate. Neither is it fair to say that anyone deciding to go is showing disregard for others. The Government and the SGSA decide what are appropriate restrictions and prohibitions on public health grounds, and as we have seen these can change very quickly based on the spread of the virus. That might well happen with football. But if and when crowds are allowed, so long as people obey whatever rules are in place, it's not reasonable to castigate them for going to games. Ok I'll bite So you are basically ignore common sense, ignore science. If the government says it's ok, it's ok. This is absolute bull@@@@. As you correctly note they will pivot at the drop of a hat. It is clear that this winter will be a serious threat to the vulnerable. I'd like to think as a society we behave accordingly. Visiting the ground is not essential no matter what anybody here says. For sure donate the money but zero requirement to be there other than for personal selfish reasons. Same as holidays, etc etc. For what it's worth, I wouldn't defend the consistency of the Government on this, far from it. I don't think anyone has claimed that going to a football match is essential. Everybody will take their own personal decisions. But I just don't think it's reasonable to castigate people who follow the rules as they are at the time in football or any other activity. The main threat to public health has come from people who have ignored the rules. I would agree that such people are selfish.
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on Aug 8, 2020 14:55:22 GMT
Ok I just feel disregarding common sense on the basis that you are following government guidance is a bit of a cop out.
This is a government that said they were surprised social distancing was not followed once people were drunk in pubs..... Bananas
|
|
|
Post by chad on Aug 8, 2020 15:29:55 GMT
I’ve got my ticket for next season and I’m as keen as anyone to get back in the Boothen End. But I’ve got a wife kids and grandkids so I can’t see me attending any games until this thing is cleared up or we have a vaccine. I’m coming to the opinion that this might not be until the 21/22 season. Which I think we could survive but there will be lot of clubs who can’t Hope I’m wrong
|
|
|
Post by Scouse on Aug 8, 2020 16:07:42 GMT
Working class ..as chad says many people will have decisions to make ..including myself
Information , allowing informed choice is key , to help people make the decision that suits their individual circumstances..for many monetary concerns will be high up in their concerns , others health matters and still others attendance arrangements if demand exceeds supply and indeed if it doesn’t
It’s not unreasonable that supporters want those aspects that most concern them as individuals to be aired and put to the club .. and if at all possible to be answered ( allowing hopefully a right of reply , appeal )
The club and indeed the government should be under no illusion that demand exceeding supply creates a black market .( something illegal in football ) .imo many supporters would rather seek the clubs understanding and help on this matter , than being driven down the black market route , As being allocated a game(s) they don’t want to see , whilst excluded from ones they do , or allocated less games than they want will only exasperate matters further
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on Aug 8, 2020 17:05:56 GMT
Fair enough, I just interpreted it as one of those who is the better fan type threads, when to be Frank that should be the least of everyone concerns
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on Aug 8, 2020 17:08:52 GMT
FWIW, I think we are very lucky to have the games played behind closed doors. Kudos to the players and its certainly made my life feel far better since sport came back
|
|
|
Post by sharonbeech21 on Aug 8, 2020 17:36:18 GMT
Arriving 3 hours before a kick pff is taking the piss i think. Its getting ridiculous now. If we cant watch football at stadiums like we used to then.dont start it up until we can
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 8, 2020 18:43:39 GMT
I have asked the club to clarify a number of times how many season tickets were sold before the deadline in April but have yet to receive a response. As you say you would think the club would use their own media outlet to communicate with fans and not rely on the local newspaper. I feel that they are only giving lip service to any consultation process and will infact simply implement whichever option provides the grestest return for the club. The loyalty shown by many fans over many years will most likely be completely disregarded. Why should loyalty come in to it and how are you measuring loyalty? Tattoo Naming a child after stoke player Most expenditure at the club I hate these type of I'm a better fan than you threads. Anyway if you are stupid enough to think going to a football stadium is a good idea in the current environment, then good luck to you. Seriously anyone thinking this is a good idea has a total disregard for anyone other than themself I think a lot of people may take exception to your last two sentences. Surely it’s about individual freedoms to assess the risk and comply with current guidance and best practice. Many years ago children were taught the green cross road to reduce the risk of accidents when crossing a road. It would be much safer never to cross a road, there’s a balance. There’s a lifestyle balance of hazard-risk when getting out of bed, driving, riding a bike, swimming, playing any sport etc etc. the list is endless. Would you/do you abstain from any of those? No you wouldn’t. Life’s balance is hazard-v-risk!! Is doing any of those “a total disregard for anyone else other than themselves”? If you believed it was unsafe for yourself or family to attend a football match in a controlled and low risk (outdoor) environment that’s your choice and no one has the right to criticise Personally I won’t hesitate to attend a game, I’ll remain aware of my environment, the actions of others, the rules. etc. At the end of the day it’s a personal choice. I’m neither stupid nor disrespectful of others, in particular to mine and another's safety and health.
|
|
|
Post by WorkingclassHero on Aug 8, 2020 19:07:41 GMT
Why should loyalty come in to it and how are you measuring loyalty? Tattoo Naming a child after stoke player Most expenditure at the club I hate these type of I'm a better fan than you threads. Anyway if you are stupid enough to think going to a football stadium is a good idea in the current environment, then good luck to you. Seriously anyone thinking this is a good idea has a total disregard for anyone other than themself I think a lot of people may take exception to your last two sentences. Surely it’s about individual freedoms to assess the risk and comply with current guidance and best practice. Many years ago children were taught the green cross road to reduce the risk of accidents when crossing a road. It would be much safer never to cross a road, there’s a balance. There’s a lifestyle balance of hazard-risk when getting out of bed, driving, riding a bike, swimming, playing any sport etc etc. the list is endless. Would you/do you abstain from any of those? No you wouldn’t. Life’s balance is hazard-v-risk!! Is doing any of those “a total disregard for anyone else other than themselves”? If you believed it was unsafe for yourself or family to attend a football match in a controlled and low risk (outdoor) environment that’s your choice and no one has the right to criticise Personally I won’t hesitate to attend a game, I’ll remain aware of my environment, the actions of others, the rules. etc. At the end of the day it’s a personal choice. I’m neither stupid nor disrespectful of others, in particular to mine and another's safety and health. It's like smoking, I dont give 2 shits what you choose to do. What I care about is you doing it and endangering others. As an individual you dont properly price your actions. What if I said if you get Covid and transmit it and te person you transmit too dies you are effectively a murderer and you go to prison for life. Get it yet?
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 8, 2020 20:43:45 GMT
I think a lot of people may take exception to your last two sentences. Surely it’s about individual freedoms to assess the risk and comply with current guidance and best practice. Many years ago children were taught the green cross road to reduce the risk of accidents when crossing a road. It would be much safer never to cross a road, there’s a balance. There’s a lifestyle balance of hazard-risk when getting out of bed, driving, riding a bike, swimming, playing any sport etc etc. the list is endless. Would you/do you abstain from any of those? No you wouldn’t. Life’s balance is hazard-v-risk!! Is doing any of those “a total disregard for anyone else other than themselves”? If you believed it was unsafe for yourself or family to attend a football match in a controlled and low risk (outdoor) environment that’s your choice and no one has the right to criticise Personally I won’t hesitate to attend a game, I’ll remain aware of my environment, the actions of others, the rules. etc. At the end of the day it’s a personal choice. I’m neither stupid nor disrespectful of others, in particular to mine and another's safety and health. It's like smoking, I dont give 2 shits what you choose to do. What I care about is you doing it and endangering others. As an individual you dont properly price your actions. What if I said if you get Covid and transmit it and te person you transmit too dies you are effectively a murderer and you go to prison for life. Get it yet? OK. I and others will/would respect your life’s choices. It’s probably best to retire into sanitised bubble , excluding all forms of life’s hazards, contacts with other persons etc to remain completely safe. Enjoy. Don’t deny others the opportunity to act and make responsible life decisions.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 10, 2020 17:14:33 GMT
I have asked the club to clarify a number of times how many season tickets were sold before the deadline in April but have yet to receive a response. As you say you would think the club would use their own media outlet to communicate with fans and not rely on the local newspaper. I feel that they are only giving lip service to any consultation process and will infact simply implement whichever option provides the grestest return for the club. The loyalty shown by many fans over many years will most likely be completely disregarded. I see no good reason why that number should not be released by the Club, although it would have to be interpreted in the light of the fact that the national lockdown was introduced before the early bird closing date. It would appear from the minutes of the Supporters Council meeting held on 30 July which have appeared on the club website today, that the Council wasn't given that information. As I stated above, I think the Council or the Club should publish the many ideas which Angela says have been submitted to the club via the Supporters Council, anonymised of course to exclude the identity of the proposer.
|
|
|
Post by wearestoke80 on Aug 10, 2020 17:30:20 GMT
I just don’t see it happening. Imagine going for a piss at half time while trying to social distance with everyone?
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Aug 10, 2020 17:30:21 GMT
I have asked the club to clarify a number of times how many season tickets were sold before the deadline in April but have yet to receive a response. As you say you would think the club would use their own media outlet to communicate with fans and not rely on the local newspaper. I feel that they are only giving lip service to any consultation process and will infact simply implement whichever option provides the grestest return for the club. The loyalty shown by many fans over many years will most likely be completely disregarded. I see no good reason why that number should not be released by the Club, although it would have to be interpreted in the light of the fact that the national lockdown was introduced before the early bird closing date. It would appear from the minutes of the Supporters Council meeting held on 30 July which have appeared on the club website today, that the Council wasn't given that information. As I stated above, I think the Council or the Club should publish the many ideas which Angela says have been submitted to the club via the Supporters Council, anonymised of course to exclude the identity of the proposer. Do you think the government will allow crowd's at non league football when it resumes with the fa Cup mid Sept My local side has a 3000 capacity and average around 230 So personally I see plenty of room to socially distance
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on Aug 10, 2020 17:45:13 GMT
I see no good reason why that number should not be released by the Club, although it would have to be interpreted in the light of the fact that the national lockdown was introduced before the early bird closing date. It would appear from the minutes of the Supporters Council meeting held on 30 July which have appeared on the club website today, that the Council wasn't given that information. As I stated above, I think the Council or the Club should publish the many ideas which Angela says have been submitted to the club via the Supporters Council, anonymised of course to exclude the identity of the proposer. Do you think the government will allow crowd's at non league football when it resumes with the fa Cup mid Sept My local side has a 3000 capacity and average around 230 So personally I see plenty of room to socially distance Same at my local non league team Stafford Rangers. How are these clubs going to pay the players wages without any gate revenue?
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 10, 2020 19:37:29 GMT
I just don’t see it happening. Imagine going for a piss at half time while trying to social distance with everyone? I did hear that there was discussion about closing the toilets at half time to avoid this problem ( seriously ! ) but that would probably only bring the problem forward to the period before half-time and increase what they call the "brush past" factor in the seated areas. The SGSA guide appears remarkably silent on this. The only bit I've noticed says For example, it is likely that spectators will spend longer in toilet areas owing to the need to wash their hands thoroughly, as recommended by public health authorities to prevent the spread of COVID-19. To avoid excessive queues in this scenario, it may therefore be necessary to provide additional hand washing facilities away from toilet areas. This approach is particularly recommended if those facilities can be located out of doors, thereby reducing the COVID-19 health risks associated with crowded indoor facilitiesI assume that there will be appropriate markings and maybe controlled entry on the number in at one time. In the gents probably alternate urinals taken out of use.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 10, 2020 19:41:01 GMT
I see no good reason why that number should not be released by the Club, although it would have to be interpreted in the light of the fact that the national lockdown was introduced before the early bird closing date. It would appear from the minutes of the Supporters Council meeting held on 30 July which have appeared on the club website today, that the Council wasn't given that information. As I stated above, I think the Council or the Club should publish the many ideas which Angela says have been submitted to the club via the Supporters Council, anonymised of course to exclude the identity of the proposer. Do you think the government will allow crowd's at non league football when it resumes with the fa Cup mid Sept My local side has a 3000 capacity and average around 230 So personally I see plenty of room to socially distance As you say, it ought to be much easier in that situation but I will try to find out exactly what the position is.
|
|
Macc
Youth Player
Posts: 334
|
Post by Macc on Aug 10, 2020 20:55:16 GMT
Do you think the government will allow crowd's at non league football when it resumes with the fa Cup mid Sept My local side has a 3000 capacity and average around 230 So personally I see plenty of room to socially distance As you say, it ought to be much easier in that situation but I will try to find out exactly what the position is. One other point on crowd sizes, surely clubs will also need to be reasonably sure of a minimum attendance to avoid making even more losses due to match day costs - stewards, catering, additional cleaning required etc etc ? Not sure what this would be at Stoke and that might not be an issue for us but it will be for some clubs that were barely staying afloat before all of this
|
|
|
Post by SamB_SCFC on Aug 10, 2020 20:56:33 GMT
Can't wait till the phrase social distancing is gone forever. Probably going to be years if ever though. Life is just an absolute nightmare.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 10, 2020 20:58:12 GMT
As you say, it ought to be much easier in that situation but I will try to find out exactly what the position is. One other point on crowd sizes, surely clubs will also need to be reasonably sure of a minimum attendance to avoid making even more losses due to match day costs - stewards, catering, additional cleaning required etc etc ? Not sure what this would be at Stoke and that might not be an issue for us but it will be for some clubs that were barely staying afloat before all of this Absolutely. The covid crisis will undoubtedly threaten the survival of some clubs
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 10, 2020 21:10:30 GMT
One other point on crowd sizes, surely clubs will also need to be reasonably sure of a minimum attendance to avoid making even more losses due to match day costs - stewards, catering, additional cleaning required etc etc ? Not sure what this would be at Stoke and that might not be an issue for us but it will be for some clubs that were barely staying afloat before all of this Absolutely. The covid crisis will undoubtedly threaten the survival of some clubs And surely this is where they need to feck ffp off? If a club has an owner that is willing to prop it up then that has to happen without sanction surely?
|
|
|
Post by jebbstuart on Aug 10, 2020 21:12:51 GMT
Do you think the government will allow crowd's at non league football when it resumes with the fa Cup mid Sept
My local side has a 3000 capacity and average around 230 So personally I see plenty of room to socially distance
*From the FA is no spectators down to level 7, any game must be played to FA social distancing guidelines. leagues and FA cup begin in Sept. but no crowd. May change in future but this is what we were informed for a non league pre season friendly played on 8/8.
|
|
|
Post by Royal Donut on Aug 10, 2020 22:03:56 GMT
I have asked the club to clarify a number of times how many season tickets were sold before the deadline in April but have yet to receive a response. As you say you would think the club would use their own media outlet to communicate with fans and not rely on the local newspaper. I feel that they are only giving lip service to any consultation process and will infact simply implement whichever option provides the grestest return for the club. The loyalty shown by many fans over many years will most likely be completely disregarded. The deadline in April was postponed, so there is no figure,I for one couldn't buy mine before hand, don't have a bank account and couldn't pay in cash as this was stopped weeks before. Had a season ticket for 22years be gutted if I was left out (but this won't happen because the club rightly will put early bird sale on at a later date). The club can't make any decisions like any other club until goverment guidelines are put in place.
|
|
|
Post by spiderpuss on Aug 10, 2020 22:22:45 GMT
Do you think the government will allow crowd's at non league football when it resumes with the fa Cup mid Sept My local side has a 3000 capacity and average around 230 So personally I see plenty of room to socially distance *From the FA is no spectators down to level 7, any game must be played to FA social distancing guidelines. leagues and FA cup begin in Sept. but no crowd. May change in future but this is what we were informed for a non league pre season friendly played on 8/8. I find it hard to believe that crowds will be allowed, when pubs and restaurants are threatened with closure to allow schools to reopen. The announcement of October I think was a bit of a "Trumpism" from Johnson, just to butter the crowds but no real substance behind it. It will be interesting to see what is closed when schools do reopen. In my mind, not much has changed with this virus, it's still there and has to be respected. It's also worth noting that Theatres and the like are talking well into next year before reopening. Why should football stadia think any different?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 10, 2020 23:17:35 GMT
Do you think the government will allow crowd's at non league football when it resumes with the fa Cup mid Sept My local side has a 3000 capacity and average around 230 So personally I see plenty of room to socially distance *From the FA is no spectators down to level 7, any game must be played to FA social distancing guidelines. leagues and FA cup begin in Sept. but no crowd. May change in future but this is what we were informed for a non league pre season friendly played on 8/8. I find it hard to believe that crowds will be allowed, when pubs and restaurants are threatened with closure to allow schools to reopen. The announcement of October I think was a bit of a "Trumpism" from Johnson, just to butter the crowds but no real substance behind it. It will be interesting to see what is closed when schools do reopen. In my mind, not much has changed with this virus, it's still there and has to be respected. It's also worth noting that Theatres and the like are talking well into next year before reopening. Why should football stadia think any different? They’re outside?
|
|