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Tom Pope
Jul 24, 2020 17:21:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by EccyStokie on Jul 24, 2020 17:21:51 GMT
The question posed to the Player was “please predict the #WWIII result you king.” To that question the Player replied, “We invade Iran then Cuba then North Korea then the Rothchilds are crowned champions of every bank on the planet 😊😊😊the end 👍👍👍” (“the Statement”)
His comments were more a crap attempt at humour than intentionally offensive I imagine.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Jul 24, 2020 17:42:31 GMT
That pic of him makes it look like someone has drawn a beard and fringe on Karl Pilkington...
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Tom Pope
Jul 24, 2020 19:26:40 GMT
via mobile
tosh likes this
Post by walrus on Jul 24, 2020 19:26:40 GMT
Something about the Rothschild family that was deemed potentially anti-Semitic. It was all a bit of a storm in a teacup in all honesty. That's your opinion. Anti Semitism is akin to Racism. If any professional footballer in this country has not yet grasped the quite simple fact that racist or anti Semitic tweets are going to end up with an FA charge, they deserve the inevitable punishment they get if they are found guilty. He has got form for bloody stupid tweets landing him in hot water - quite why his club is defending him is a mystery. My girlfriend is Jewish and I’d consider myself well attuned to these issues. I’d be surprised if Tom Pope even knew the Rothschilds are Jewish. I agree that footballers need to realise their every move online is scrutinised and that they will end up being punished for transgressions, but I’m also a believer in the “no harm, no foul” philosophy. He didn’t really mean any ill by it, nobody was directly affected, it seems wrong to me to group it with the more heinous racism that is sometimes seen on social media.
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 24, 2020 19:40:33 GMT
I consider this punishment to be extremely disturbing.
There is no conclusive evidence in his post that he his anti-Semitic. For example, how on earth could they conclude that he was not being ironic (jokes aside)? That quote is ambiguous at best. To claim anyone is anti-Semitic because they even mention the power of this dynasty in a post is quite terrifying. Being connected with a specific religion should not make someone beyond criticism for their political actions, regardless of the religion, that is simply not right.
There seems to be huge pressure on organisations to make sure that certain people are absolutely beyond public criticism. These are extremely powerful people and there is plenty of evidence to suggest they have huge influence over Government and influence policies. This is not even a secret. They are being overly protected and I personally think anti-Semitism is sadly being used and misrepresented as a cover to protect them imho. You have to ask why?
I think it is way over the top compared to other acts of racism that are far more prevalent and dangerous.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jul 24, 2020 19:43:54 GMT
Criticising the Rothschilds does not automatically make you anti-Semitic if you consider their Jewishness to be incidental. They are a very powerful and shadowy and sinister family with a highly morally dubious history and yes, they control a significant portion of the world's banking and finances.
Disgraceful that he's been punished for it.
Similarly, there's an element who are always lightning-quick to call anti-Semitism for criticising Israel.
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Tom Pope
Jul 24, 2020 19:58:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by longdistancekiddie on Jul 24, 2020 19:58:28 GMT
The question posed to the Player was “please predict the #WWIII result you king.” To that question the Player replied, “We invade Iran then Cuba then North Korea then the Rothchilds are crowned champions of every bank on the planet 😊😊😊the end 👍👍👍” (“the Statement”) His comments were more a crap attempt at humour than intentionally offensive I imagine. Who does he mean by, we, And what is wrong with his statement
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Post by trincostokie on Jul 24, 2020 20:13:35 GMT
Perhaps he has seen this?
Essential viewing for anyone with an open mind and a healthy dose of cynicism...the truth is out there somewhere, for those willing to seek it out...
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Tom Pope
Jul 24, 2020 20:21:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by RedandWhite90 on Jul 24, 2020 20:21:08 GMT
That's your opinion. Anti Semitism is akin to Racism. If any professional footballer in this country has not yet grasped the quite simple fact that racist or anti Semitic tweets are going to end up with an FA charge, they deserve the inevitable punishment they get if they are found guilty. He has got form for bloody stupid tweets landing him in hot water - quite why his club is defending him is a mystery. I don’t think for one second he was being anti Semitic though. Whether he meant to be or it was just an ignorsnt statement it is absolutely anti-semitic. Economically anti-semitic is probably more accurate and he has rightly been charges and should be punished accordingly. Whether that be financial or more usefully actuslly educating him would be a much better outcome.
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Tom Pope
Jul 24, 2020 20:21:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by EccyStokie on Jul 24, 2020 20:21:37 GMT
The question posed to the Player was “please predict the #WWIII result you king.” To that question the Player replied, “We invade Iran then Cuba then North Korea then the Rothchilds are crowned champions of every bank on the planet 😊😊😊the end 👍👍👍” (“the Statement”) His comments were more a crap attempt at humour than intentionally offensive I imagine. Who does he mean by, we, And what is wrong with his statement According to the charge sheet that the above is from there’s a number of FA rules he’s supposedly broken but I personally think it’s something out of nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2020 20:31:51 GMT
Is this the same fella who tweeted about was it Man City ?
I think footballers really need to stay off social media sometimes. Even the ones I haven't heard of on the pitch.
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Tom Pope
Jul 24, 2020 21:20:46 GMT
via mobile
Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 24, 2020 21:20:46 GMT
I think it's fair to suggest Tom Pope has no idea what he's doing or saying Which is why I think it’s harsh. He would have been mortified (you’d hope and expect) when he found out where it all came from but it’s a mistake. Should he be punished, yes. The fine I agree with but a fine and some form of education and programme and community work, ideally with the Jewish community. But a 6 game ban for being ignorant? Just seems harsh. Most people if they were mortified would apologise and explain that they didn’t understand the consequences of what they were saying. Did he apologise/explain?
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Tom Pope
Jul 24, 2020 21:25:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by EccyStokie on Jul 24, 2020 21:25:07 GMT
Which is why I think it’s harsh. He would have been mortified (you’d hope and expect) when he found out where it all came from but it’s a mistake. Should he be punished, yes. The fine I agree with but a fine and some form of education and programme and community work, ideally with the Jewish community. But a 6 game ban for being ignorant? Just seems harsh. Most people if they were mortified would apologise and explain that they didn’t understand the consequences of what they were saying. Did he apologise/explain? It’s safe to assume he was instructed not to comment further.
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Tom Pope
Jul 24, 2020 21:26:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 24, 2020 21:26:16 GMT
Most people if they were mortified would apologise and explain that they didn’t understand the consequences of what they were saying. Did he apologise/explain? It’s safe to assume he was instructed not to comment further. Why?
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 24, 2020 21:28:38 GMT
I don’t think for one second he was being anti Semitic though. Whether he meant to be or it was just an ignorsnt statement it is absolutely anti-semitic. Economically anti-semitic is probably more accurate and he has rightly been charges and should be punished accordingly. Whether that be financial or more usefully actuslly educating him would be a much better outcome. Please explain precisely why? You cannot just call someone anti-semitic on a whim. That is totally out of order. In addition, those who have handed this punishment should be explaining precisely why and on what basis they have made this interpretation. To me it is more anti-corporate than anti-semitic. How can anyone prove that he is not criticising someone based on their unethical capitalistic approach?
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Post by EccyStokie on Jul 24, 2020 21:30:47 GMT
It’s safe to assume he was instructed not to comment further. Why? You’ll have to ask his lawyers. I’m guessing to stop himself from making a bigger twat of himself, maybe?
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Tom Pope
Jul 24, 2020 21:32:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 24, 2020 21:32:22 GMT
You’ll have to ask his lawyers. I’m guessing to stop himself from making a bigger twat of himself, maybe? Not sure what harm a mea culpa, hands up I got it wrong good old fashioned apology could have done
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 24, 2020 21:33:44 GMT
You’ll have to ask his lawyers. I’m guessing to stop himself from making a bigger twat of himself, maybe? Not sure what harm a mea culpa, hands up I got it wrong good old fashioned apology could have done Maybe he doesn't believe he got it wrong.
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Tom Pope
Jul 24, 2020 21:35:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 24, 2020 21:35:14 GMT
Not sure what harm a mea culpa, hands up I got it wrong good old fashioned apology could have done Maybe he doesn't believe he got it wrong. Well then come out and explain yourself, no?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2020 22:19:37 GMT
When he's not getting pissed in the Sneyd Arms he spends his time looking at 9/11 conspiracy theories it seems.....
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Tom Pope
Jul 24, 2020 22:22:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 24, 2020 22:22:36 GMT
Which is why I think it’s harsh. He would have been mortified (you’d hope and expect) when he found out where it all came from but it’s a mistake. Should he be punished, yes. The fine I agree with but a fine and some form of education and programme and community work, ideally with the Jewish community. But a 6 game ban for being ignorant? Just seems harsh. Most people if they were mortified would apologise and explain that they didn’t understand the consequences of what they were saying. Did he apologise/explain? Not a clue.
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borges
Academy Starlet
Posts: 104
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Post by borges on Jul 24, 2020 23:09:18 GMT
I would argue that someone aware of the conspiracy theories surrounding the Rothschilds would also be aware of the fact that they're Jewish, because that's the detail used to make them seem so insidious. It's not just that they're wealthy, but that they're Jewish too - and here that's used to imply an inherent level of scheming, duplicity and dishonesty beyond anything the good, Christian/European super rich could manage. By extension, it's antisemitic because perpetuates the stereotype that Jewish people are money-obsessed schemers, who manipulate others for their own ends... "Rothschild" is just used as a metonym for "Jew".
Of course, I'd also take it in good faith that someone who didn't have more than a superficial awareness of Rothschild conspiracy theories wouldn't be aware of the antisemitic subtext (Bayern in this thread, for example), but you have to question whether someone sharing them on social media (Pope) would do so with only a passing knowledge of them.
Ultimately, he may not have intended for them to be antisemitic (in fact, he almost certainly didn't), but you can still cause damage without intent and as such he and the Vale should take the punishment meted out to them.
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Post by NassauDave on Jul 25, 2020 5:29:40 GMT
Fuck him and The Fail.
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Tom Pope
Jul 25, 2020 5:53:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by LH_SCFC on Jul 25, 2020 5:53:06 GMT
Ignorance is not an excuse and this is a good opportunity for him to educate himself. The punishment is absolutely proportionate for someone who has regularly breached the FA rules to which he’s signed up to under his playing contract. He’s a repeat offender.
He also bangs on about being on mega money. I’m guessing that’s a maximum of two weeks’ wages. Whilst I appreciate that’s a lot to most, he’s got a shelf life and his earning potential will soon drop off the cliff face.
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Post by felonious on Jul 25, 2020 6:12:16 GMT
I never had a clue what religion they were and I’d suggest neither would most people. For real? I don't know what age you are Lord but as a kid it was a word used without malice to indicate wealth. I've no idea at what age I was before I became aware that this was a Jewish family and after that when I became aware of any links to anything more sinister.
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Tom Pope
Jul 25, 2020 7:52:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by zerps on Jul 25, 2020 7:52:37 GMT
I disagree - more importantly, so do the FA. As I say, Pope has form for tweets which get him into hot water. He should have worked out by now that for a professional footballer to parrot tropes about Jewish bankers is likely to end in tears. I never had a clue what religion they were and I’d suggest neither would most people. Exactly this, the Rothschilds are blamed for all sorts of financial conspiracies over the years. It’s because they’re absolutely minted, not because they’re jewish. This is the same as Akinfenwa playing the race card when someone called him a water buffalo. It sums up the state of this pathetic world, currently.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 25, 2020 7:54:28 GMT
Did Popey vote for Corbyn? 😉
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jul 25, 2020 8:00:02 GMT
Whether he meant to be or it was just an ignorsnt statement it is absolutely anti-semitic. Economically anti-semitic is probably more accurate and he has rightly been charges and should be punished accordingly. Whether that be financial or more usefully actuslly educating him would be a much better outcome. Please explain precisely why? You cannot just call someone anti-semitic on a whim. That is totally out of order. In addition, those who have handed this punishment should be explaining precisely why and on what basis they have made this interpretation. To me it is more anti-corporate than anti-semitic. How can anyone prove that he is not criticising someone based on their unethical capitalistic approach? With pleasure. The wording of his tweet was as follows, “We invade Iran then Cuba then North Korea then the Rothchilds [sic] are crowned champions of every bank on the planet.” This was in response to being asked, "Predict the WWIII result" Now firstly it is important to remember that as part of his charge it was found that he had been watching hundreds of conspiracy theory videos surrounding 9/11 and predictions on invasions of 4 other countries and believed the Rothschilds banking business had somehow funded these attacks. A quick bit of research will show you that this type of material surrounding Jewish bankers was heavily used in 1930's German propoganda in the lead up to mass genocide of 6m Jews. Now economical anti-semitism, which for my money is exactly what this is and will more than likely be due to ignorance than a deliberate attempt to 'preach' has been described best by an American author called Gerald Krefertz. "Gerald Krefetz summarizes the myths as Jews "control the banks, the money supply, the economy, and businesses - of the community, of the country, of the world". He gives as illustrations many slurs and proverbs, in several different languages, suggesting that Jews are stingy, greedy, miserly, or aggressive bargainers. Krefetz suggests that during the 19th century, most of the myths focused on Jews being "scurrilous, stupid, and tight-fisted", but after the Jewish Emancipation and the rise of Jews to the middle and upper classes in Europe the myths evolved and began to assert that Jews were "clever, devious, and manipulative financiers out to dominate" world finances." Now finally the following is from the IHRA* (Internation Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) which, as an extension to its definition on anti-semitism also highlight this key point, "Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions." *you may recall this being the statement(s) that Jeremy Corbyn was opposed to recognising as part of his Labour Leadership that was eventually approved. So, in summary Tom's statement would have been in breach of the IHRA statement describing anti-semitism whereby his ignorance of a Jewish bank ending up in control of all world banks followimg a ficitonal WW3. It is a tried and tested form of anti-semitism at worst or ignorance at best. My personal opinion is the latter when it comes to Tom Pope, but the charge is right, the punishment is right but he needs educating also. Apologies for the long read but it can be a complex and complicated issue and I hope this explains why.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 25, 2020 8:12:05 GMT
Why is someone asking a mediocre lower league footballer questions of this magnitude anyway? It's usually stuff like 'Corrie or Eastenders?'
It's not like Simon Schama's ever been asked to predict the result of Port Fail v Carlisle...
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jul 25, 2020 8:19:11 GMT
It's a nonsense strawman argument conflating non-linked things:
"Tom Pope critices Rothschilds, Neo-Nazis criticise Rothschilds too, the Neo-Nazis are anti-Semitic, therefore Tom Pope is anti-Semitic".
It's pure mental gymnastics to make this one particular family beyond reproach, we're not talking about Jews or the Jewish ethno-religious group, we're talking about a specific family who have, for hundreds of years, travelled the world to establish banks and influence the central banks in every single major capital city and beyond, and who have funded both sides in pretty much every major world conflict since the 1700s. Stereotyping is obviously flawed in many ways, but it is possible for someone to live up to one. It doesn't mean that it's their Jewishness that makes them money-grabbing schemers, that would be ridiculous. But by the same token, it doesn't mean "that's a stereotype" should be used as a cast-iron defence against any behaviour that actually lives up to the stereotype... Which is what we're seeing here, to make them immune to criticism.
It's anti-Semitic to apply these shadowy deeds to all Jews, of course it is, but it's no more anti-Semitic to criticise the Rothschilds for their doing as it would be anti-black to point out that Barack Obama bombed more innocent brown kids than any other President in US history or anti-white to point out that Churchill starved a load of Bangladeshis.
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Post by leicspotter on Jul 25, 2020 9:04:55 GMT
Please explain precisely why? You cannot just call someone anti-semitic on a whim. That is totally out of order. In addition, those who have handed this punishment should be explaining precisely why and on what basis they have made this interpretation. To me it is more anti-corporate than anti-semitic. How can anyone prove that he is not criticising someone based on their unethical capitalistic approach? With pleasure. The wording of his tweet was as follows, “We invade Iran then Cuba then North Korea then the Rothchilds [sic] are crowned champions of every bank on the planet.” This was in response to being asked, "Predict the WWIII result" Now firstly it is important to remember that as part of his charge it was found that he had been watching hundreds of conspiracy theory videos surrounding 9/11 and predictions on invasions of 4 other countries and believed the Rothschilds banking business had somehow funded these attacks. A quick bit of research will show you that this type of material surrounding Jewish bankers was heavily used in 1930's German propoganda in the lead up to mass genocide of 6m Jews. Now economical anti-semitism, which for my money is exactly what this is and will more than likely be due to ignorance than a deliberate attempt to 'preach' has been described best by an American author called Gerald Krefertz. "Gerald Krefetz summarizes the myths as Jews "control the banks, the money supply, the economy, and businesses - of the community, of the country, of the world". He gives as illustrations many slurs and proverbs, in several different languages, suggesting that Jews are stingy, greedy, miserly, or aggressive bargainers. Krefetz suggests that during the 19th century, most of the myths focused on Jews being "scurrilous, stupid, and tight-fisted", but after the Jewish Emancipation and the rise of Jews to the middle and upper classes in Europe the myths evolved and began to assert that Jews were "clever, devious, and manipulative financiers out to dominate" world finances." Now finally the following is from the IHRA* (Internation Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) which, as an extension to its definition on anti-semitism also highlight this key point, "Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions." *you may recall this being the statement(s) that Jeremy Corbyn was opposed to recognising as part of his Labour Leadership that was eventually approved. So, in summary Tom's statement would have been in breach of the IHRA statement describing anti-semitism whereby his ignorance of a Jewish bank ending up in control of all world banks followimg a ficitonal WW3. It is a tried and tested form of anti-semitism at worst or ignorance at best. My personal opinion is the latter when it comes to Tom Pope, but the charge is right, the punishment is right but he needs educating also. Apologies for the long read but it can be a complex and complicated issue and I hope this explains why. I think the above clearly explains why it is dangerous to take the "sound bite" headlines and social media 'shorts' as context for an opinion. On the face of it, based on the headlines and Tom Pope's (known?) perceived lack of brain power, then it is just a storm in a tea cup. Poor Tom Pope, just another thick footballer being badly treated. Dig deeper, understand just how much research went into his comments, then it looks far worse, hence the charge and verdict I would say. It wasn't just an off the cuff remark, or attempt at humour, it was quite a thought out response based on hours of watching material on line. Pope may be an idiot, but he is a well researched idiot. People often fall foul on Twitter for re-tweeting material they receive without really understanding what it is, where it comes from...seemingly they believe it 'cos it's on Twitter...dangerous and naive Think twice before you press send!
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