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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 9:06:29 GMT
Championship goal keeper stats 2019 /2020
Jack butland ...58.4 per cent shots on target saved
Adam federici ...71.0 per cent shots on target saved
Adam Davies ...77.8 per cent shots on target saved
If you Google... FB ref .com championship goal keeper stats ...it comes up with a great table of stats per team ( not that useful ) .If you click the drop down box at the bottom of the table it changes to per player ( more useful )
I have tried to load it , but can't .
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 23, 2020 9:09:32 GMT
Championship goal keeper stats 2019 /2020 Jack butland ...58.4 per cent shots on target saved Adam federici ...71.0 per cent shots on target saved Adam Davies ...77.8 per cent shots on target saved If you Google... FB ref .com championship goal keeper stats ...it comes up with a great table of stats per team ( not that useful ) .If you click the drop down box at the bottom of the table it changes to per player ( more useful ) I have tried to load it , but can't . Are there any catching and kicking stats? That’s really damning re Butland. |
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Post by Afrojack on Jul 23, 2020 9:12:26 GMT
35 games for Butland, including games at start of the season getting battered vs 7 and 4 games. Not really a fair comparison
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 23, 2020 9:14:08 GMT
35 games for Butland, including games at start of the season getting battered vs 7 and 4 games. Not really a fair comparison Why isn’t it? It’s a percentage which makes it pretty fair imo. If it was total then yes. It also back up what we’ve seen with our eyes. Every other shot on target with Butland goes in! That’s appalling. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 9:14:50 GMT
Championship goal keeper stats 2019 /2020 Jack butland ...58.4 per cent shots on target saved Adam federici ...71.0 per cent shots on target saved Adam Davies ...77.8 per cent shots on target saved If you Google... FB ref .com championship goal keeper stats ...it comes up with a great table of stats per team ( not that useful ) .If you click the drop down box at the bottom of the table it changes to per player ( more useful ) I have tried to load it , but can't . Are there any catching and kicking stats? That’s really damning re Butland. goals against per 90 mins Butland ...1.6 Federici...1.43 Davies...0.5 And percentage of penalty kicks saved , we all know the answer to that one ! To answer your question..No ... sorry |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 23, 2020 9:23:02 GMT
35 games for Butland, including games at start of the season getting battered vs 7 and 4 games. Not really a fair comparison If they had all played the same number of games the comparison MIGHT be more trustworthy - then again it might not. Logically, the longer period of games Butland played was just as likely to make his stats look BETTER as it was to make them look WORSE. As bayern suggests, any fan who objectively looks at those stats will not be surprised at the picture they paint. The fact is that Butland (who used to be a stunning shot stopper) has not been even average at shot stopping for several years. And, as bayern also says, if stats were available for kicking and distribution, Butland would certainly come bottom of that table as well. I hope Butland can turn things round - at his age, he ought to be able to do so. But, in my opinion, it is VERY unlikely that he will do so at this club given the long period of his decline. Players, like managers, sometimes need to move to recover their form - that is a fact which I hope Stoke and Butland will recognise this summer. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 23, 2020 9:25:23 GMT
Are there any catching and kicking stats? That’s really damning re Butland. goals against per 90 mins Butland ...1.6 Federici...1.43 Davies...0.5 And percentage of penalty kicks saved , we all know the answer to that one ! To answer your question..No ... sorry No worries! The crosses one is a real difference maker imo. I would expect most goalies to be in the range Davies and Federici with the shots saved (is that the case?). Catching and dominating the area are the main differences now with goalies. Just that with Jack we have a really bad one. |
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 23, 2020 9:26:15 GMT
I imagine that the xG stat would be helpful here?
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Post by bringitondown on Jul 23, 2020 9:53:44 GMT
35 games for Butland, including games at start of the season getting battered vs 7 and 4 games. Not really a fair comparison Even taking out the Nathan Jones era he’s only 63.4% To be honest you only need to watch him to see he’s nowhere near the level he once was. The comedy of errors, the terrible kicking and how he remains routed to his line for the majority of crosses, punching or flapping at those he does come for are why, for me, he shouldn’t be first choice. Fingers crossed we can ship him out. |
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Post by Cast no shadow on Jul 23, 2020 9:56:32 GMT
I imagine that the xG stat would be helpful here? The xg is never useful, fuck it off. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 10:12:49 GMT
35 games for Butland, including games at start of the season getting battered vs 7 and 4 games. Not really a fair comparison Why isn’t it? It’s a percentage which makes it pretty fair imo. If it was total then yes. It also back up what we’ve seen with our eyes. Every other shot on target with Butland goes in! That’s appalling. Yeah of course it does. I have a 100% strike rate for penalties in my 30 year career. So I'm fucking amazing at penalties cus the % says so. I mean I've only ever taken one penalty and spent 25 of those 30 years as a keeper but that doesn't matter right? |
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Post by bringitondown on Jul 23, 2020 10:41:38 GMT
Why isn’t it? It’s a percentage which makes it pretty fair imo. If it was total then yes. It also back up what we’ve seen with our eyes. Every other shot on target with Butland goes in! That’s appalling. Yeah of course it does. I have a 100% strike rate for penalties in my 30 year career. So I'm fucking amazing at penalties cus the % says so. I mean I've only ever taken one penalty and spent 25 of those 30 years as a keeper but that doesn't matter right? Was your % of shots on target saved higher than Butland?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 10:55:28 GMT
Why isn’t it? It’s a percentage which makes it pretty fair imo. If it was total then yes. It also back up what we’ve seen with our eyes. Every other shot on target with Butland goes in! That’s appalling. Yeah of course it does. I have a 100% strike rate for penalties in my 30 year career. So I'm fucking amazing at penalties cus the % says so. I mean I've only ever taken one penalty and spent 25 of those 30 years as a keeper but that doesn't matter right? Except , we are not talking about one shot at goal. Davies has played 4 lots of 90 mins against 4 lots of opposition , Including the highest scorers in the league , Brentford. Besides I don't think Davies is the main issue. There is no reason to believe , he ,or for that matter federici , can't save shots ,from strikers in the championship. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 23, 2020 11:08:34 GMT
Why isn’t it? It’s a percentage which makes it pretty fair imo. If it was total then yes. It also back up what we’ve seen with our eyes. Every other shot on target with Butland goes in! That’s appalling. Yeah of course it does. I have a 100% strike rate for penalties in my 30 year career. So I'm fucking amazing at penalties cus the % says so. I mean I've only ever taken one penalty and spent 25 of those 30 years as a keeper but that doesn't matter right? Butland has been shite for 3 seasons now. |
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Post by RF10 on Jul 23, 2020 11:14:36 GMT
He must be absolutely fucked of confidence in his own ability by now.
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Post by marylandstoke on Jul 23, 2020 11:34:26 GMT
He must be absolutely fucked of confidence in his own ability by now. That. Exactly. |
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 23, 2020 11:55:08 GMT
Why isn’t it? It’s a percentage which makes it pretty fair imo. If it was total then yes. It also back up what we’ve seen with our eyes. Every other shot on target with Butland goes in! That’s appalling. Yeah of course it does. I have a 100% strike rate for penalties in my 30 year career. So I'm fucking amazing at penalties cus the % says so. I mean I've only ever taken one penalty and spent 25 of those 30 years as a keeper but that doesn't matter right? Regardless of what Federici and Davies have, Butland’s feeble 50-odd percent save ratio puts him 24th in the ‘keeper table. So whilst it might not be fair due to sample size to compare him to our other keepers, his figures are pretty damning when compared to all other keepers playing 30+ games. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 12:00:36 GMT
goals against per 90 mins Butland ...1.6 Federici...1.43 Davies...0.5 And percentage of penalty kicks saved , we all know the answer to that one ! To answer your question..No ... sorry No worries! The crosses one is a real difference maker imo. I would expect most goalies to be in the range Davies and Federici with the shots saved (is that the case?). Catching and dominating the area are the main differences now with goalies. Just that with Jack we have a really bad one. Depends where in the table you are ...Leeds,wba , Fulham , Brentford ,approx 75 per cent shots saved The likes of Barnsley and Luton ,65per cent of shots saved 70 per cent is very decent but achievable Obviously, how good your keeper is , effects your league position |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 13:18:14 GMT
Yeah of course it does. I have a 100% strike rate for penalties in my 30 year career. So I'm fucking amazing at penalties cus the % says so. I mean I've only ever taken one penalty and spent 25 of those 30 years as a keeper but that doesn't matter right? Regardless of what Federici and Davies have, Butland’s feeble 50-odd percent save ratio puts him 24th in the ‘keeper table. So whilst it might not be fair due to sample size to compare him to our other keepers, his figures are pretty damning when compared to all other keepers playing 30+ games. It would be completely remiss to suggest our improved form is everything about 10 players and One player has remained as bad. Butland hasn't been brilliant and hes made mistakes but he's made some good saves and had good games |
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Post by kustokie on Jul 23, 2020 13:35:01 GMT
The demise of Jack is truly tragic. He was one of the best goalkeepers in the country until felled by injury, which, let’s not forget, was sustained while training for England. He has totally lost all confidence, which is an essential attribute for keeper and he may never fully recover. I doubt he spends any time on the Oatcake, but let’s not kick the man when he’s down.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 14:03:08 GMT
Hope jack does come back
Maybe a loan move ?
But it's just not working out for him at Stoke
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Jul 23, 2020 14:49:57 GMT
Championship goal keeper stats 2019 /2020 Jack butland ...58.4 per cent shots on target saved Adam federici ...71.0 per cent shots on target saved Adam Davies ...77.8 per cent shots on target saved If you Google... FB ref .com championship goal keeper stats ...it comes up with a great table of stats per team ( not that useful ) .If you click the drop down box at the bottom of the table it changes to per player ( more useful ) I have tried to load it , but can't . And there in lies the problem. I'm sure I read somewhere that we were in the top 6 for conceding shots on target. our goals against stat really does point the finger fairly and squarely at Jacko. |
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 23, 2020 14:54:55 GMT
35 games for Butland, including games at start of the season getting battered vs 7 and 4 games. Not really a fair comparison If they had all played the same number of games the comparison MIGHT be more trustworthy - then again it might not. Logically, the longer period of games Butland played was just as likely to make his stats look BETTER as it was to make them look WORSE. As bayern suggests, any fan who objectively looks at those stats will not be surprised at the picture they paint. The fact is that Butland (who used to be a stunning shot stopper) has not been even average at shot stopping for several years. And, as bayern also says, if stats were available for kicking and distribution, Butland would certainly come bottom of that table as well. I hope Butland can turn things round - at his age, he ought to be able to do so. But, in my opinion, it is VERY unlikely that he will do so at this club given the long period of his decline. Players, like managers, sometimes need to move to recover their form - that is a fact which I hope Stoke and Butland will recognise this summer. They should have recognised it three summers ago |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 23, 2020 15:29:32 GMT
Davies actually plays more inaccurate long balls than Butland (18 a per 90 mins to Butland's 13) but he also succeeds more than Jack when he does (11 per 90 to Jack's 7). I'm looking at WhoScored so I can't tease it out but I would wager a lot more of Davies' passes remain in play and are won by the opposition whereas Butland's will sail straight out of play. Davies also has the highest amount of accurate long balls per 90 of any keeper playing more than 3 games in the league. What is really interesting is Davies hardly plays short passes, he's averaging just 0.5 per 90 minutes compared to Butland's 8. Davies is exclusively kicking long, whereas Butland presumably due to his inability to kick is going short 33% of the time. Which is probably transferring into why we struggle to play up the pitch as we can't pass from the back. Something we have been great at since Davies started is getting the ball up the pitch quickly. Full stats per 90: | Keeper | Total Passes | Accurate Long Passes | Inaccurate Long Passes | Accurate Short Passes | Inaccurate Short Passes | | Butland | 28.9 | 7.7 | 12.9 | 8.3 | 0 | | Davies | 30.3 | 11 | 18.8 | 0.5 | 0 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 17:22:41 GMT
35 games for Butland, including games at start of the season getting battered vs 7 and 4 games. Not really a fair comparison If they had all played the same number of games the comparison MIGHT be more trustworthy - then again it might not. Logically, the longer period of games Butland played was just as likely to make his stats look BETTER as it was to make them look WORSE. As bayern suggests, any fan who objectively looks at those stats will not be surprised at the picture they paint. The fact is that Butland (who used to be a stunning shot stopper) has not been even average at shot stopping for several years. And, as bayern also says, if stats were available for kicking and distribution, Butland would certainly come bottom of that table as well. I hope Butland can turn things round - at his age, he ought to be able to do so. But, in my opinion, it is VERY unlikely that he will do so at this club given the long period of his decline. Players, like managers, sometimes need to move to recover their form - that is a fact which I hope Stoke and Butland will recognise this summer. You wouldn’t need the same number of games, but 4 does make it challenging to justify. Anything greater than 10 would be helpful. You could bootstrap at intervals of four for Butland and see how many of those interval periods resulted in goals per game less than Davies. Federici would be a fairer comparison at seven. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 23, 2020 17:25:46 GMT
35 games for Butland, including games at start of the season getting battered vs 7 and 4 games. Not really a fair comparison Why, because Butland let the team down time after time? He needs to go in this window I'm afraid!  |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 23, 2020 18:07:40 GMT
If they had all played the same number of games the comparison MIGHT be more trustworthy - then again it might not. Logically, the longer period of games Butland played was just as likely to make his stats look BETTER as it was to make them look WORSE. As bayern suggests, any fan who objectively looks at those stats will not be surprised at the picture they paint. The fact is that Butland (who used to be a stunning shot stopper) has not been even average at shot stopping for several years. And, as bayern also says, if stats were available for kicking and distribution, Butland would certainly come bottom of that table as well. I hope Butland can turn things round - at his age, he ought to be able to do so. But, in my opinion, it is VERY unlikely that he will do so at this club given the long period of his decline. Players, like managers, sometimes need to move to recover their form - that is a fact which I hope Stoke and Butland will recognise this summer. You wouldn’t need the same number of games, but 4 does make it challenging to justify. Anything greater than 10 would be helpful. You could bootstrap at intervals of four for Butland and see how many of those interval periods resulted in goals per game less than Davies. Federici would be a fairer comparison at seven. Yes in statistical terms, I am sure you are correct. Doesn't alter the fact that the order the (potentially flawed?) group of stats (for saves on target) rank our 3 keepers, is exactly the order most fans would have predicted having watched them play this season! ;-) Perhaps we can simply agree that Butland's dodgy form is reflected in his season's stats before he was injured, rested, dropped! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 18:19:45 GMT
You wouldn’t need the same number of games, but 4 does make it challenging to justify. Anything greater than 10 would be helpful. You could bootstrap at intervals of four for Butland and see how many of those interval periods resulted in goals per game less than Davies. Federici would be a fairer comparison at seven. Yes in statistical terms, I am sure you are correct. Doesn't alter the fact that the order the (potentially flawed?) group of stats (for saves on target) rank our 3 keepers, is exactly the order most fans would have predicted having watched them play this season! ;-) Perhaps we can simply agree that Butland's dodgy form is reflected in his season's stats before he was injured, rested, dropped! The stats aren't potentially flawed, they are absolutely flawed. Davies has played 4 games. 2 home. 2 away. I'll pick the same for Butland. I'll have West Brom and Brentford away. And I'll have Cardiff and Swansea at home. Thats an automatically promoted side and 3 in the play offs. 49 shots over the 4 games. 10 on target. 10 saves. 100% shot to save ratio. Now that's a fair comparison isn't it? |
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Post by thehoof on Jul 23, 2020 21:36:44 GMT
Yes in statistical terms, I am sure you are correct. Doesn't alter the fact that the order the (potentially flawed?) group of stats (for saves on target) rank our 3 keepers, is exactly the order most fans would have predicted having watched them play this season! ;-) Perhaps we can simply agree that Butland's dodgy form is reflected in his season's stats before he was injured, rested, dropped! The stats aren't potentially flawed, they are absolutely flawed. Davies has played 4 games. 2 home. 2 away. I'll pick the same for Butland. I'll have West Brom and Brentford away. And I'll have Cardiff and Swansea at home. Thats an automatically promoted side and 3 in the play offs. 49 shots over the 4 games. 10 on target. 10 saves. 100% shot to save ratio. Now that's a fair comparison isn't it? Like it Loony! I still think Jack has unfortunately totally lost it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 23:44:59 GMT
The stats aren't potentially flawed, they are absolutely flawed. Davies has played 4 games. 2 home. 2 away. I'll pick the same for Butland. I'll have West Brom and Brentford away. And I'll have Cardiff and Swansea at home. Thats an automatically promoted side and 3 in the play offs. 49 shots over the 4 games. 10 on target. 10 saves. 100% shot to save ratio. Now that's a fair comparison isn't it? Like it Loony! I still think Jack has unfortunately totally lost it. His confidence is shot to bits. Some keepers can just deal with mistakes and move on...Allison for example. Others just don't. Its abundantly clear since his mistakes he has changed the way he plays. He punches more often than catches. He doesnt come for balls he often would. He sits back in his box rather than on the edge of it. It's all psychological. That mental change then forces errors as youre not doing what you naturally would. Ive been there. It's tough. It's even tougher when your team is expected to do well and they aren't. Look at the West Brom game. He did absolutely everything asked of him. He came and commanded, he made good saves. He did what made him an England international. But we were expected to lose. There was no pressure. In contrast look at Wigan. He made a great save one on one early on. He then made a magnificient finger tip save after that. These were good saves. Really good saves. But the first goes in and I think and hell probably agree it was poor keeping on his part and now the pressure is really on and look what happens a terrible piece of keeping for the second. Im times gone by he catches that no problem but now the ball comes at him and his brain is going "shit, I need to catch this, but what if you drop it, fuck, I'll tip it over, get it away, yes get it away".....too late, he's done a bit of everything, fumbled it on to the bar and bang it's Two nil. Like I said I've been there. Given me a shot into the corner of the goal any day of week cus i fucking hate the ones straight at me. I fucking hate loopy corners your expected to come and get cus as above my mind is going "dont drop it, dont drop it, don't drop it". I don't think he's totally gone but he needs away from this club 100% |
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