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Post by spitthedog on Jul 20, 2020 9:42:53 GMT
www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/barnsley-chairman-threatens-efl-slams-18624517?fbclid=IwAR2CoFib8nZBdqA2A1h57KPFPEUsW71tMkwn5qrjyOtC2F0fxbWLyL0FM3EBarnsley co-chairman Paul Conway has slammed the English Football League for their inability to regulate Derby County, Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham City, labelling their actions as 'cheating'. The Championship relegation picture remains unclear with one full round of fixtures left to play this season. Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are still awaiting the verdicts from their trials over financial misconduct charges, with both clubs vigorously denying the charges, which could lead to a points deduction of up to 21 points. Equally, Birmingham were found guilty of breaching an EFL financial plan early this year, upon appeal, although no sanctions were issued. It was reported earlier this year that Barnsley, who sit bottom of the Championship and on the brink of an immediate return to League One, were prepared to sue the EFL for loss of earnings, if the outstanding legal cases against Wednesday and Derby are not concluded. Conway has reiterated that the club remains committed to that stance, whilst blasting the EFL for their inability to exact correct punishment for those found guilty of breaching financial regulations. “You have scam stadium deals, fake sponsorship contracts, delinquent financials, not paying players on time, huge debts and no action," Conway told The Telegraph. "It’s really not good for English football and not encouraging investment. “If little old Barnsley and its supporters have to lead the way to clean up English football then we’ll do it by any means necessary. If that has to be litigation, so be it.” He added: “We’ve invested in four football clubs in four countries, and been at the highest level in the Champions League, and frankly England is the worst place to operate. “Many teams cheat and the league is so weak enforcing its own rules. In most other leagues, not paying players on time is automatic relegation. Administration in France and Spain is relegation by two divisions.
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Post by miggoscfc on Jul 20, 2020 9:45:51 GMT
www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/barnsley-chairman-threatens-efl-slams-18624517?fbclid=IwAR2CoFib8nZBdqA2A1h57KPFPEUsW71tMkwn5qrjyOtC2F0fxbWLyL0FM3EBarnsley co-chairman Paul Conway has slammed the English Football League for their inability to regulate Derby County, Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham City, labelling their actions as 'cheating'. The Championship relegation picture remains unclear with one full round of fixtures left to play this season. Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are still awaiting the verdicts from their trials over financial misconduct charges, with both clubs vigorously denying the charges, which could lead to a points deduction of up to 21 points. Equally, Birmingham were found guilty of breaching an EFL financial plan early this year, upon appeal, although no sanctions were issued. It was reported earlier this year that Barnsley, who sit bottom of the Championship and on the brink of an immediate return to League One, were prepared to sue the EFL for loss of earnings, if the outstanding legal cases against Wednesday and Derby are not concluded. Conway has reiterated that the club remains committed to that stance, whilst blasting the EFL for their inability to exact correct punishment for those found guilty of breaching financial regulations. “You have scam stadium deals, fake sponsorship contracts, delinquent financials, not paying players on time, huge debts and no action," Conway told The Telegraph. "It’s really not good for English football and not encouraging investment. “If little old Barnsley and its supporters have to lead the way to clean up English football then we’ll do it by any means necessary. If that has to be litigation, so be it.” He added: “We’ve invested in four football clubs in four countries, and been at the highest level in the Champions League, and frankly England is the worst place to operate. “Many teams cheat and the league is so weak enforcing its own rules. In most other leagues, not paying players on time is automatic relegation. Administration in France and Spain is relegation by two divisions. He is right. Regardless of if you believe the rules are correct or not its pointless having them if clubs do not abide them and the league do not enforce them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2020 9:50:30 GMT
On the flip side you have our owners, who are prepared to invest (however misguided the spend has been thus far) but now can't, and as such our club will be dragged down to the lowest common denominator.
Tony Scholes spoke some rare sense recently when he mentioned that the Championship is one of the largest attended leagues in Europe, higher than most, and that it is bizarre that you have a set of rules that is limiting the power of the league rather than allowing good owners and investors to invest money to grow clubs, in order to ultimately grow the league, rather than some weird race to the bottom.
I agree with him and the counter argument to that would be all of the clubs that have gone bust recently - of which the counter argument to that has got to be a better fit and proper persons test and tighter ownership regulation, rather than FFP.
Ultimately though, what does it all mean when you have Manchester City getting a 10M 'slap' on the finger nails for breaking FFP? Surely all litigation goes out of the window?
As for Barnsley - similar club to Brentford. Shut your mouths and do it better.
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Post by neddy on Jul 20, 2020 9:50:52 GMT
I agree with him so long as we don’t get done 😏
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 20, 2020 10:04:32 GMT
On the flip side you have our owners, who are prepared to invest (however misguided the spend has been thus far) but now can't, and as such our club will be dragged down to the lowest common denominator. Tony Scholes spoke some rare sense recently when he mentioned that the Championship is one of the largest attended leagues in Europe, higher than most, and that it is bizarre that you have a set of rules that is limiting the power of the league rather than allowing good owners and investors to invest money to grow clubs, in order to ultimately grow the league, rather than some weird race to the bottom. I agree with him and the counter argument to that would be all of the clubs that have gone bust recently - of which the counter argument to that has got to be a better fit and proper persons test and tighter ownership regulation, rather than FFP. Ultimately though, what does it all mean when you have Manchester City getting a 10M 'slap' on the finger nails for breaking FFP? Surely all litigation goes out of the window? As for Barnsley - similar club to Brentford. Shut your mouths and do it better. The issue is about breaking the existing rules and if Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday and Derby are found to have broken those rules they should be penalised not have them get the rules changed when it doesn't suit them. Barnsley have every right to complain as should every other club that have stuck by the rules. The rules may well need a review but I thats a completely different matter.
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Post by lordb on Jul 20, 2020 11:50:52 GMT
The EFL is too weak This is because it's essentially a trade body and not a genuine sporting regulator
Too much power in the hands of clubs
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Post by nott1 on Jul 21, 2020 11:21:12 GMT
Friggin Farcical Policy
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 21, 2020 11:35:49 GMT
Erm, hang on a minute. He added: “We’ve invested in four football clubs in four countries, and been at the highest level in the Champions League, and frankly England is the worst place to operate. “Many teams cheat and the league is so weak enforcing its own rules. In most other leagues, not paying players on time is automatic relegation. Administration in France and Spain is relegation by two divisions. Are Barnsley involved in one of those weird intercontinental football club collecting consortia? You'd think they might not be so quick to accuse others of bad ownership practice.
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Post by werrington on Jul 21, 2020 11:42:58 GMT
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Post by nottsover60 on Jul 21, 2020 11:43:22 GMT
Please see my post in the Wigan thread re my friend who is a retired accountant who sometimes gives advice to Derby. Everything they have done was by the book and had approval by the EFL but he says so many clubs are desperate to get others in trouble instead of looking at farcical EFL rules that he fears a penalty for Derby.
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 21, 2020 11:48:37 GMT
Please see my post in the Wigan thread re my friend who is a retired accountant who sometimes gives advice to Derby. Everything they have done was by the book and had approval by the EFL but he says so many clubs are desperate to get others in trouble instead of looking at farcical EFL rules that he fears a penalty for Derby. If everything was by the book, they’ve got nothing to fear, have they? The EFL won’t have a case and that’ll be that. They can’t get a penalty if they’ve done nothing wrong.
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Post by thebet365 on Jul 21, 2020 11:59:25 GMT
Please see my post in the Wigan thread re my friend who is a retired accountant who sometimes gives advice to Derby. Everything they have done was by the book and had approval by the EFL but he says so many clubs are desperate to get others in trouble instead of looking at farcical EFL rules that he fears a penalty for Derby. Ammortising your players completely different to every other club in the country is hardly by the book. Found a loophole ? Possibly but certainly not your normal done by the book method, and if the "Independent" valuers turn out to have connections to the owners then that won't be by the book either.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jul 21, 2020 12:02:24 GMT
Let's say the sale of the ground was done by the book when it was done and resulted in a rule change. Now there are several clubs who he despises (mostly Middlesbrough but obviously from this Barnsley amongst the majority of clubs) who are desperate to get Derby done under FFP because they can't now do the same thing. They continually push the league to punish Derby and he fears this will result in a punishment. As I said in the Wigan thread my friend says Stoke and Coates are the only club who have stuck up for Derby, the rest to a greater or lesser extent want to see Derby punished.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jul 21, 2020 12:06:54 GMT
Please see my post in the Wigan thread re my friend who is a retired accountant who sometimes gives advice to Derby. Everything they have done was by the book and had approval by the EFL but he says so many clubs are desperate to get others in trouble instead of looking at farcical EFL rules that he fears a penalty for Derby. Ammortising your players completely different to every other club in the country is hardly by the book. Found a loophole ? Possibly but certainly not your normal done by the book method, and if the "Independent" valuers turn out to have connections to the owners then that won't be by the book either. Found a loophole perhaps but if it's there wouldn't we all? The independent valuers had no connection to Derby, were from London and they and their valuation were given FL approval and Derby have only followed Stoke's lead in putting the ground in a different company to the club (Stoke Holdings I believe). If Morris sells the club he also sells the ground not like Coventry.
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Post by markby on Jul 21, 2020 12:26:28 GMT
Let's say the sale of the ground was done by the book when it was done and resulted in a rule change. Now there are several clubs who he despises (mostly Middlesbrough but obviously from this Barnsley amongst the majority of clubs) who are desperate to get Derby done under FFP because they can't now do the same thing. They continually push the league to punish Derby and he fears this will result in a punishment. As I said in the Wigan thread my friend says Stoke and Coates are the only club who have stuck up for Derby, the rest to a greater or lesser extent want to see Derby punished. There is no doubt that other clubs are "gunning for" Derby - presumably because while they feel they are constrained by observing both the spirit and the letter of the law, Derby are gaining a relative advantage by flouting/manipulating the rules, at least in spirit.
But that should be no concern of the EFL, who should treat Derby's case strictly on its own merits. And in a whole number of respects, Derby's activities have been very questionable, eg: 1. Rooney's contract - 50% of his enormous salary remunerates him as a player, with the other 50% as a coach, which doesn't count towards FFP. He has never coached before, while he's an ever present in the team when fit; 2. Other contracts which looked, shall we say, "unusual" eg google Sam Rush, Tom Ince's mother and a whole load more: link ; 3. The unusual player-contract amortisation accounting policy, which deviates from the industry norm; 4. The sale and lease-back of Pride Park.
Re this last one, there is no doubt that the "book" (rulebook) permits clubs to carry out such transactions, and other clubs have taken advantage of same. But that is not the question. Rather it is whether Pride Park is genuinely worth the £80m valuation accorded to it by Derby. A valuation which was supplied by a surveyor who was selected by Mel Morris, reported to Mel Morris and was paid by Mel Morris.
Further, such transactions are meant to be between "related parties" i.e. to ensure that such a transaction cannot be used to separate ownership of the stadium from ownership of the club/directors.
But who really owns Pride Park now?
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Post by thebet365 on Jul 21, 2020 12:34:32 GMT
Ammortising your players completely different to every other club in the country is hardly by the book. Found a loophole ? Possibly but certainly not your normal done by the book method, and if the "Independent" valuers turn out to have connections to the owners then that won't be by the book either. Found a loophole perhaps but if it's there wouldn't we all? The independent valuers had no connection to Derby, were from London and they and their valuation were given FL approval and Derby have only followed Stoke's lead in putting the ground in a different company to the club (Stoke Holdings I believe). If Morris sells the club he also sells the ground not like Coventry. Yeah I'm not saying what they've done is wrong, just that it's not by the book. I don't think they will get any punishment unlike Sheff Wed who will have to fake a legal document to get out of their predicament. The sooner FFP is ripped up and re-written the better. A club owner should be able to inject cash into their club whenever they want, as long as it's via shares issued not loans.
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Post by march4 on Jul 21, 2020 12:36:43 GMT
FFP needs binning now.
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Post by jzime on Jul 21, 2020 12:58:42 GMT
The EFL is a weak and pathetic body that cannot properly enforce its own rules. FFP is not fit for purpose, holding some clubs back while not actually protecting other clubs from being loaded with debts. The 'fit and proper person' test is wholly inadequate and doesn't have anywhere near the remit necessary to properly investigate potential buyers of football clubs, which is the single most decisive factor in the awful situations at clubs like Wigan and Bury.
All of these things are obviously true and I don't think anybody really disputes them anymore. But it's truly despicable to see clubs like Barnsley (and other clubs at various periods of recent history) to turn on other clubs and demand points deductions or financial punishments, especially when they are only doing so out of completely transparent self-interest.
Now is the time when clubs in all three EFL divisions should start to demand real and concrete change in the EFL, and they should invite PL clubs and conference clubs to join them in such a campaign. They should also invite fan groups, including supporters' councils and supporters' trusts. Together, these groups could absolutely win concessions; the game primarily belongs to fans and always has done. It is clubs who generate wealth and an entertainment package for the EFL to sell across the world. But it is the fans who generate wealth for clubs, and it's fans who outlast boardrooms and continue to pump money into clubs for successive generations - we clearly have the power if they wanted to use it. This period especially is one where many clubs could face real financial pressure because of the COVID-crisis. The worst-case scenario really is a significant number of clubs going under, and potentially being replaced in the third and fourth divisions with PL B teams, and the game needs to protect itself from that.
But they won't. Because chairmen and boardrooms have too much political self-interest. It's honestly absolutely tragic and farcical.
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Post by smiler_andy on Jul 21, 2020 19:53:49 GMT
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Post by neddy on Jul 21, 2020 20:01:50 GMT
Would this cap be good or bad for us?
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 25, 2020 22:59:26 GMT
Some interesting allegations in here. One ownership group, (which was approved by the EFL), failed in their duty to provide the requisite support to their respective Championship organisation. One other ownership group completed a takeover and provided funding to a club without ever being approved by the EFL to become owners of that club. Another competitor has yet to pay a transfer fee to Barnsley Football Club that was due in August of 2019. Several clubs have been delinquent in payment to contracted players.Our club, on a substantially smaller budget, has paid every professional player under contract 100 per cent of their wages this season, one of the few Sky Bet Championship clubs to do so.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 26, 2020 5:34:31 GMT
Absolute crap idea The teams coming down would have a dispensation They already have a unfair advantage This will give them even more
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Post by desman2 on Jul 26, 2020 6:21:24 GMT
FFP is not FFP
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 6:27:33 GMT
Makes you wonder what Paul Conway and his chums are really up to.
The last time he was in the press was at the start of the Coronavirus pandemic, moaning that he/they couldn't buy a club in Scotland due to dual ownership rules.
Now he's in the press moaning about fair play in the EFL. They already own a number of clubs around the world.
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Post by devondumpling on Jul 26, 2020 7:09:48 GMT
Makes you wonder what Paul Conway and his chums are really up to. The last time he was in the press was at the start of the Coronavirus pandemic, moaning that he/they couldn't buy a club in Scotland due to dual ownership rules. Now he's in the press moaning about fair play in the EFL. They already own a number of clubs around the world. "Our new investors include Pacific Media Group, Chien Lee, Partners Path Capital and Krishen Sud." Alongside Barnsley, the Pacific Media Group (PMG) also owns Swiss club FC Thun - who are currently bottom of the Swiss Super League - and failed in a bid to buy Championship Partick Thistle last year. The group's bid to buy Thistle was thwarted due to guidelines put in place by the Scottish Football Association preventing the ownership of multiple clubs. Also own Ostende
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Post by neddy on Jul 26, 2020 7:49:22 GMT
Some interesting allegations in here. One ownership group, (which was approved by the EFL), failed in their duty to provide the requisite support to their respective Championship organisation. One other ownership group completed a takeover and provided funding to a club without ever being approved by the EFL to become owners of that club. Another competitor has yet to pay a transfer fee to Barnsley Football Club that was due in August of 2019. Several clubs have been delinquent in payment to contracted players.Our club, on a substantially smaller budget, has paid every professional player under contract 100 per cent of their wages this season, one of the few Sky Bet Championship clubs to do so.Can’t believe it’s us that hasn’t paid Barnsley? We did have a couple off them though...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 8:00:06 GMT
Some interesting allegations in here. One ownership group, (which was approved by the EFL), failed in their duty to provide the requisite support to their respective Championship organisation. One other ownership group completed a takeover and provided funding to a club without ever being approved by the EFL to become owners of that club. Another competitor has yet to pay a transfer fee to Barnsley Football Club that was due in August of 2019. Several clubs have been delinquent in payment to contracted players.Our club, on a substantially smaller budget, has paid every professional player under contract 100 per cent of their wages this season, one of the few Sky Bet Championship clubs to do so.Can’t believe it’s us that hasn’t paid Barnsley? We did have a couple off them though... I'd say they are having a pop at Wigan re. Kieffer Moore.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jul 26, 2020 12:53:00 GMT
Absolute crap idea The teams coming down would have a dispensation They already have a unfair advantage This will give them even more Relegated teams have an advantage with parachute payments, salary caps would reduce their advantage by their limiting wage offers to new signings. Probably good for us too as existing contracts will most likely still be honoured so we can continue to pay high earners like Clucas and Allen
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 7, 2020 16:55:15 GMT
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-wait-goes-on-for-derby-county-but-sanctions-look-likely-qm6qjzh7pThe noises around Derby County’s protracted disciplinary case for allegedly breaching the English Football League’s financial rules do not sound good for the Championship club. An independent commission has been hearing the case since mid-July to judge firstly whether the charges have been proven, and if so to hold another hearing to determine the sanction. Although neither outcome has yet been confirmed, it appears that the case is heading towards Derby being sanctioned despite the club’s furious insistence that the EFL’s actions in charging them were “unlawful and unfair” and that it was the league itself which had made a mistake in signing off their financial declarations. If it does end with a points deduction for Derby — a transfer embargo or fines are other possible punishments — then, as with Sheffield Wednesday, the sanction would be applied to next season
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 8, 2020 7:52:16 GMT
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