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Post by jzime on Jul 13, 2020 15:54:48 GMT
I was honestly quite surprised that Davies was not signed to be our number one in the first place. After all, why would a Welsh international in his mid-20s, who was the clear and undisputed number one at his current club, come here to be second (or even third) choice?
It would have been in the best interests of everybody to sell Butland last summer too. I honestly think it would have done Butland's confidence a lot of good to have a fresh start in the PL, and it clearly effected him mentally when he was dropped from the England side and then he made two big errors at Preston. And it would have been beneficial for Stoke to cash in for FFP purposes when we had just signed a decent Football League goalkeeper on a Bosman.
The fact that we didn't do that, the most obvious and financially prudent thing, is another stunning indictment of the way this club has been mismanaged right from the very top in the last few years. This is an error we should correct this summer. We obviously won't get anything close to the sort of fee we could have got over the last two years, but Jack Butland should have played his last game in a Stoke shirt. Regardless of if Davies is our number one or our second choice next year, he should play the final three games.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 13, 2020 16:02:51 GMT
The thing that worries me, or at least confuses me, is the fact he's not been able to remotely get a sniff of the first team under successive managers, even when our first choice keepers were either in completely garbage form (Butland) or at best minimally satisfactory (Federici). He couldn't even get on the bench last season, which seems very odd given he was signed as our new #1. It just seems like there might be some issue there - either personal or football-related - that is not evident to the fans.
Hopefully just overthinking it, or he's past whatever issue he might have had. He was decent yesterday, great to see him communicating so confidently with the defence.
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Post by lordb on Jul 13, 2020 16:05:10 GMT
I was honestly quite surprised that Davies was not signed to be our number one in the first place. After all, why would a Welsh international in his mid-20s, who was the clear and undisputed number one at his current club, come here to be second (or even third) choice? It would have been in the best interests of everybody to sell Butland last summer too. I honestly think it would have done Butland's confidence a lot of good to have a fresh start in the PL, and it clearly effected him mentally when he was dropped from the England side and then he made two big errors at Preston. And it would have been beneficial for Stoke to cash in for FFP purposes when we had just signed a decent Football League goalkeeper on a Bosman. The fact that we didn't do that, the most obvious and financially prudent thing, is another stunning indictment of the way this club has been mismanaged right from the very top in the last few years. This is an error we should correct this summer. We obviously won't get anything close to the sort of fee we could have got over the last two years, but Jack Butland should have played his last game in a Stoke shirt. Regardless of if Davies is our number one or our second choice next year, he should play the final three games. I think Stoke intended to sell Butland that summer, presumably n one came in for him (or not at the right price)
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Post by jzime on Jul 13, 2020 16:32:22 GMT
I was honestly quite surprised that Davies was not signed to be our number one in the first place. After all, why would a Welsh international in his mid-20s, who was the clear and undisputed number one at his current club, come here to be second (or even third) choice? It would have been in the best interests of everybody to sell Butland last summer too. I honestly think it would have done Butland's confidence a lot of good to have a fresh start in the PL, and it clearly effected him mentally when he was dropped from the England side and then he made two big errors at Preston. And it would have been beneficial for Stoke to cash in for FFP purposes when we had just signed a decent Football League goalkeeper on a Bosman. The fact that we didn't do that, the most obvious and financially prudent thing, is another stunning indictment of the way this club has been mismanaged right from the very top in the last few years. This is an error we should correct this summer. We obviously won't get anything close to the sort of fee we could have got over the last two years, but Jack Butland should have played his last game in a Stoke shirt. Regardless of if Davies is our number one or our second choice next year, he should play the final three games. I think Stoke intended to sell Butland that summer, presumably n one came in for him (or not at the right price) But if you intend to sell a player, and get as far down the road as signing his replacement, surely you just have to cut your losses and sell him to the highest bidder? Even if it doesn't match you initial asking price. No wonder Jack has been error-prone and in a weird place mentally for large periods of the season, if he spent the entire summer presuming he would be off. What a terrible way to run a football club, and to man-manage a player.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 13, 2020 16:34:10 GMT
I think Stoke intended to sell Butland that summer, presumably n one came in for him (or not at the right price) But if you intend to sell a player, and get as far down the road as signing his replacement, surely you just have to cut your losses and sell him to the highest bidder? Even if it doesn't match you initial asking price. No wonder Jack has been error-prone and in a weird place mentally for large periods of the season, if he spent the entire summer presuming he would be off. What a terrible way to run a football club, and to man-manage a player. Who says there were *any* bidders?
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Post by jzime on Jul 13, 2020 16:39:37 GMT
But if you intend to sell a player, and get as far down the road as signing his replacement, surely you just have to cut your losses and sell him to the highest bidder? Even if it doesn't match you initial asking price. No wonder Jack has been error-prone and in a weird place mentally for large periods of the season, if he spent the entire summer presuming he would be off. What a terrible way to run a football club, and to man-manage a player. Who says there were *any* bidders? I was under the impression that Palace and Villa both wanted him, but Stoke were demanding over £20m? It was in quite a few places, especially the local news in Brum?
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Post by torquaypotter on Jul 13, 2020 16:48:44 GMT
If he can dive to his left when a pen it taken I would give him the shirt
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Post by liathroid on Jul 13, 2020 17:20:23 GMT
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 13, 2020 17:23:44 GMT
But if you intend to sell a player, and get as far down the road as signing his replacement, surely you just have to cut your losses and sell him to the highest bidder? Even if it doesn't match you initial asking price. No wonder Jack has been error-prone and in a weird place mentally for large periods of the season, if he spent the entire summer presuming he would be off. What a terrible way to run a football club, and to man-manage a player. Who says there were *any* bidders? Villa I’m sure potter
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Post by ursemboys on Jul 13, 2020 17:31:09 GMT
I am sure I read Butland turned down Villa and Bournmouth because he thought he would get a better option, that then snookered Davies playing 1st team and he then threw his toys out so was dropped to third choice.
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Post by OldStokie on Jul 13, 2020 17:32:14 GMT
So very sorry for Jack, but he's lost it. Don't know why, he really was top class, then he just went downhill. We owe you a lots, Jack,you really were up amongst some of Stoke's best and O will never bad mouth you, but Davis is now my first choice. This. What Jack needs now is a new club, a new GK coach, and a top, top sports psychologist. With those things in place he could still go on to recapture the form he's capable of. Unless Davies goes completely to pieces at Brizzle, he should keep the jersey until the end of the season so Michael O'Neil can assess him properly. OS.
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Post by rambo61 on Jul 13, 2020 19:01:49 GMT
Being a g.k is all about confidence...Butlands got fuck all. His neck injury is whiplash from watching goals go past him. His idea of taking the knee is pretending to stop a penalty!! Give Davies the shirt has to be the way forward!!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 13, 2020 20:07:09 GMT
So very sorry for Jack, but he's lost it. Don't know why, he really was top class, then he just went downhill. We owe you a lots, Jack,you really were up amongst some of Stoke's best and O will never bad mouth you, but Davis is now my first choice. This. What Jack needs now is a new club, a new GK coach, and a top, top sports psychologist. With those things in place he could still go on to recapture the form he's capable of. Unless Davies goes completely to pieces at Brizzle, he should keep the jersey until the end of the season so Michael O'Neil can assess him properly. OS. Yes, we learn absolutely bugger all by putting Jack back in for the final three games but we could learn a ton of valuable information by keeping Davies in-between the sticks. Davies didn't have a lot to do by way of dealing with shots yesterday but that certainly wont be the case when play Brentford on Saturday. Let's see how he performs against the highest scorers in the league.
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Post by Boothen on Jul 13, 2020 20:16:09 GMT
Absolutely he should. Give him the the final games and see if he's consistent against better teams than Brum. And if he is, and seeing as how we're in need of a major overhaul, I can't see any problem starting that overhaul at the back with Davies. After all, a decent keeper who can also command his box is a major bonus when reorganising a team.
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Post by boothenender on Jul 14, 2020 14:35:59 GMT
Davies SHOULD get the number 1 spot.... But he will not. Jack Butland is going to remain in the shop window. He wants away and Stoke want him gone and some money from him. Birmingham City have also got a sell on clause for Jack Butland. I think it was mentioned at 20% of his sell on fee, dont quote me on that. Scholes/Jon Boy need to try to rake some money back to pay for Premiership wages for Sunday League level players. We are still that shit.
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Post by marylandstoke on Jul 14, 2020 15:20:56 GMT
Davies SHOULD get the number 1 spot.... But he will not. Jack Butland is going to remain in the shop window. He wants away and Stoke want him gone and some money from him. Birmingham City have also got a sell on clause for Jack Butland. I think it was mentioned at 20% of his sell on fee, dont quote me on that. Scholes/Jon Boy need to try to rake some money back to pay for Premiership wages for Sunday League level players. We are still that shit. The Stoke City Transfer Control Room Somewhere deep in a disused mine (probably in Bentilee) with no internet service. A pizza box lies on the table.......a fax machine, curiously quite, in the corner. A voice is heard.. “But if we sell him we have to give Birmingham the percentage” ”I’ve got an idea. What if we sold him to Birmingham” ”That’s it, he’s still for sale, but only to Birmingham” ”Genius, now lets go to the pub and see if anyone knows what a left back is, buggered if do”
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Post by salopstick on Jul 14, 2020 15:50:48 GMT
Butland needs resting then selling/loaning out - heads gone and I dont think he can get it back He does need a change of scenery. He’s still young in GK terms. His form dropped as he got lauded and included with england IMO. Was it because he was expecting a massive move? Don’t know but Ben foster is proving you can come back and have further success as a GK
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Post by Goonie on Jul 14, 2020 18:10:09 GMT
Butland needs resting then selling/loaning out - heads gone and I dont think he can get it back He does need a change of scenery. He’s still young in GK terms. His form dropped as he got lauded and included with england IMO. Was it because he was expecting a massive move? Don’t know but Ben foster is proving you can come back and have further success as a GK I think you nailed it there - relegation season saw a drop in form and he's just got worse in a gradual decline that must have reached rock bottom by now
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Post by pushon on Jul 14, 2020 18:31:15 GMT
I think it's time for Butland to go and Davies has earned his chance to claim the number 1 spot. What concerns me though, is that he's short for modern goalkeeper at a smidge over 6 feet tall, about the same as Chester. So does he have the presence to command his area?
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 15, 2020 2:31:26 GMT
Not sure if Davy should keep the shirt BUT if he does he should have to pay for it. We can't keep giving shirts away nilly willy.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 15, 2020 4:54:04 GMT
I think it's time for Butland to go and Davies has earned his chance to claim the number 1 spot. What concerns me though, is that he's short for modern goalkeeper at a smidge over 6 feet tall, about the same as Chester. So does he have the presence to command his area? Pretty sure he's way taller than that. Listed as 6'3" on Wiki but I even thought that was on the low side from looking at him. He's listed as 6'1" on some sites but I don't think that's right.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 15, 2020 9:56:17 GMT
I think it's time for Butland to go and Davies has earned his chance to claim the number 1 spot. What concerns me though, is that he's short for modern goalkeeper at a smidge over 6 feet tall, about the same as Chester. So does he have the presence to command his area? Pretty sure he's way taller than that. Listed as 6'3" on Wiki but I even thought that was on the low side from looking at him. He's listed as 6'1" on some sites but I don't think that's right. 6' 3" would put him just 2" shorter than Butland, which I would have thought was about right. 6' 3" is not huge for a keeper but it isn't over small either. On current form, I'd say Butland's (current) poor and erratic reactions more than wipe out his extra 2 inches of height. If anything a slightly smaller than average keeper is possibly quicker to get off his line to narrow the angles. When I was a lad keepers were tiny compared to nowadays. Our own Gordon Banks was small but made up for it with superb positioning and reactions.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 15, 2020 12:11:42 GMT
Pretty sure he's way taller than that. Listed as 6'3" on Wiki but I even thought that was on the low side from looking at him. He's listed as 6'1" on some sites but I don't think that's right. 6' 3" would put him just 2" shorter than Butland, which I would have thought was about right. 6' 3" is not huge for a keeper but it isn't over small either. On current form, I'd say Butland's (current) poor and erratic reactions more than wipe out his extra 2 inches of height. If anything a slightly smaller than average keeper is possibly quicker to get off his line to narrow the angles. When I was a lad keepers were tiny compared to nowadays. Our own Gordon Banks was small but made up for it with superb positioning and reactions. Think of Foxy, he was one of the shortest players in the team photo most of the time. 6’3” is probably about the minimum now although you do still get exceptions like Pickford and Pepe Reina...
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jul 15, 2020 13:15:12 GMT
If he doesn't and butland plays it will prove how bad things are behind the scenes
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Post by rorymscfc on Jul 15, 2020 19:56:10 GMT
Another very decent outing for the lad. Dealt well with crosses, distributetion on the whole was good, quick off his line when needed and any keeper in the world would have been happy with the save in the 1 on 1. Couldn’t do much about the goal.
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Post by jeycov on Jul 15, 2020 20:12:34 GMT
Keep more or less the same starting 11 if all are fit - controversial, but I would play Diouf instead of Gregory
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Jul 15, 2020 20:18:14 GMT
Keep more or less the same starting 11 if all are fit - controversial, but I would play Diouf instead of Gregory I’d play my Gran instead of Gregory!
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Post by boltonstokie on Jul 15, 2020 20:23:35 GMT
Another very decent outing for the lad. Dealt well with crosses, distributetion on the whole was good, quick off his line when needed and any keeper in the world would have been happy with the save in the 1 on 1. Couldn’t do much about the goal. Absolutely. On 1 v 1 the keeper should always rush out like that! Butland.........simply stands on his line and we concede there. I’ve not once seen him do that!
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Post by thisisouryear on Jul 15, 2020 20:51:13 GMT
Still think we need to strengthen but he's ok as a backup. In this squad he should be number 1 for the rest of the season.
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