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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 12:38:38 GMT
Pretty much every other shot on target has resulted in us conceding this season.......
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 10, 2020 12:40:05 GMT
Pretty much every other shot on target has resulted in us conceding this season....... Jaysus H Christ. That's it you've sent me under  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 12:46:09 GMT
I'm not even sure what to deduce from those stats. It suggests that we must be doing something right, but:
We're not a 'hard team to play against'.
It cannot be that we are defending well.
It cannot be that our CDM shield is that good, that it strangles the life out of other midfields.
We rarely look solid.
Weird.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 12:48:09 GMT
It simply means that we are conceding chances of good quality and/or the goalkeeper just isn't doing his job.
Horrific stats.
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 10, 2020 12:49:02 GMT
So basically our keeper and defence are crap.
Not enough pressure in and around the box meaning opponents can be more accurate with their shooting.
Poor goalkeeping letting too many on target shots in.
What a combination.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 12:52:38 GMT
It simply means that we are conceding chances of good quality and/or the goalkeeper just isn't doing his job. Horrific stats. When you look at the other teams on that list though it’s clearly a massive statistical anomaly. Doesn’t paint Butland and the defence in a good light that’s for sure..... |
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Post by xchpotter on Jul 10, 2020 13:02:49 GMT
Poor defending it suggests to me where every chance we offer there isn't a defender within a hundred yards so Johnny Striker can take his time, have a fag, check Twitter and then casually roll the ball into the net. It certainly isn't bad luck, it's just one of the many shit things we do.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 10, 2020 13:09:58 GMT
Poor defending it suggests to me where every chance we offer there isn't a defender within a hundred yards so Johnny Striker can take his time, have a fag, check Twitter and then casually roll the ball into the net. It certainly isn't bad luck, it's just one of the many shit things we do. Yeah, Butland clearly a big influence on this number but has to be down to quality of chance at work as well. It does throw up the question of commitment and attitude again for me. |
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Post by greenhuff on Jul 10, 2020 14:32:54 GMT
Although I have no stats to back it up it does seem that time and time again this season defenders have made catastrophic errors in many matches,Butland set the template for this with his early season goofs but again and again we have suffered for this. Frankly I was gobsmacked by yestersday's attempted tackle that brought the pen It was the tackle of a frustrated 14 year old. Totally unneeded when the defender should have stayed on his feet and shepherded the attacker away and poor football intelligence .In fact I am being unfair to 14 year old's and I coached a few ."Stay on your feet don't dive in " .Its not hard and its taught at basic football coaching levels.
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 10, 2020 14:51:35 GMT
May aswell not have a keeper🤷🏼♂️😂
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Post by Fred Merger on Jul 10, 2020 15:10:41 GMT
And that he's been made captain on such consistently bad performances. I will never forget that Preston away performance!
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Post by femark on Jul 10, 2020 15:12:19 GMT
Our defense has been social distancing all season. Do we ever block shots/crosses? (Apart from the excellent blocks against leeds I cant think of any)
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Post by wilcopotter on Jul 10, 2020 15:14:10 GMT
Pretty much every other shot on target has resulted in us conceding this season....... Can’t believe that, everyone knows Jack’s a good shot stopper👍 |
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Post by leicspotter on Jul 10, 2020 15:22:26 GMT
Notwithstanding the 2 defensive blocks last night Leeds were able to get pretty close in and pick their spots...suggesting our defenders were not close enough to their forwards. Even then, the first chance was a 1 v 1 between Bamford and Butland (who got a vital touch) before Baath and Mc Clean made their clearances. At times I'm sure they were in different postcodes  Opposing teams are given time and space to then be clinical in front of goal, they don't need to resort to long shots so often, whilst we are usually living off scraps in comparison. |
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jul 10, 2020 15:54:05 GMT
It shows that the defence is OK but the keeper is absolute dog shite
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Post by lordb on Jul 10, 2020 16:07:33 GMT
So basically our keeper and defence are crap. Not enough pressure in and around the box meaning opponents can be more accurate with their shooting. Poor goalkeeping letting too many on target shots in. What a combination. indeed tactics not the issue |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 10, 2020 16:13:30 GMT
Makes it even stranger that you'd try and play a defencive set up with this lot when its clear they aren't capable.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 10, 2020 16:13:55 GMT
So basically our keeper and defence are crap. Not enough pressure in and around the box meaning opponents can be more accurate with their shooting. Poor goalkeeping letting too many on target shots in. What a combination. indeed tactics not the issue As its stands they're the biggest issue. |
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jul 10, 2020 16:24:10 GMT
So basically our keeper and defence are crap. Not enough pressure in and around the box meaning opponents can be more accurate with their shooting. Poor goalkeeping letting too many on target shots in. What a combination. indeed tactics not the issue I'm not a fan of xG but would love to see where we fared against the other teams in the top 10 with this. I think back to our recent glory days where we'd often concede many shots but protect the areas that needed protecting. While it was frustrating to see 4 centre backs line up it certainly solved a problem we're seeing now*. * I'm not advocating playing 4 centre backs. I found it interesting that Lambert, Rowett and Jones all had periods where they tried to make us more defensive with varying degrees of success often just before they were sacked. The usual pattern being they think the players aren't as bad as the results suggest. See how bad they are. Tell the players they need to take responsibility. After this doesn't work attempt to be much more defensive. Get the boot. |
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Post by lordb on Jul 10, 2020 16:27:48 GMT
indeed tactics not the issue As its stands they're the biggest issue. I'm 100% convinced that TP/Allardyce/any defensive supremo you could care to name would not be able to stop the shower of shit we have at the back from regularly conceding lots of stupid goals why? because a ridiculous percentage of goals we conceded are down o mind bogging errors or 'non defending' like Chester for Leeds second can drill them all day very day,play the cage do wherever nothing is going to stop them fucking up |
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jul 10, 2020 16:41:37 GMT
I'm 100% convinced that TP/Allardyce/any defensive supremo you could care to name would not be able to stop the shower of shit we have at the back from regularly conceding lots of stupid goals why? because a ridiculous percentage of goals we conceded are down o mind bogging errors or 'non defending' like Chester for Leeds second can drill them all day very day,play the cage do wherever nothing is going to stop them fucking up I can't disagree, it certainly feels like that. It also feels like this issue goes back to the tail end of Hughes' time here. I think if we were conceding a high xG it could be argued that it's tactical and could possibly be solved by a defensive coach. I say this while also having to acknowledge that any coach will struggle because I'm not sure the fans or players would be massively happy sitting in to get results due to our recent spend and wage bill in this league. |
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Post by Fred Merger on Jul 10, 2020 16:46:40 GMT
I have been saying for a while. Its obvious that this set up has goals in it as we have scored a lot more goals since MON came in. The fundamental reason that we haven't won more games is because we cannot defend full stop. If the whole back 5 is replaced this summer with the quality required. We could quite easily be a top 10 side next year, if we scrape survival!
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jul 10, 2020 17:47:50 GMT
It was worse under Jones. I pointed it out a few times to try and get people to give Jones some slack! We were the most unlucky team ever for a period under Jones. Pretty much every individual mistake a player made was punished by an opposition goal. Of course Jones had to go in the end, and hopefully it doesn't turn out to be too late.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 10, 2020 18:53:33 GMT
As its stands they're the biggest issue. I'm 100% convinced that TP/Allardyce/any defensive supremo you could care to name would not be able to stop the shower of shit we have at the back from regularly conceding lots of stupid goals why? because a ridiculous percentage of goals we conceded are down o mind bogging errors or 'non defending' like Chester for Leeds second can drill them all day very day,play the cage do wherever nothing is going to stop them fucking up Playing them in a way they aren't comfortable with isn't helping but when they were played in a way they are not only do they not concede but they go up the other end and score four, it may be that they are awful at the back and I agree they are so why are we setting up to rely on them instead of relying on the what we are good at. |
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Post by tachyon on Jul 11, 2020 7:40:41 GMT
Our current xG figures are that we've created 56.9 xG and scored 54 (slight under performance). Defensively, we've allowed 52.5 xG, but 66 actual goals (huge under performance). If you want to isolate the keeper performance you have to look at so called xG2. xG2 only looks at shots and headers that are on target & estimates how likely a goal is to be scored based on the shot location and
where on the frame of the goal the shot is headed for, how well it was struck, if it has swerve and if it was deflected. Based on this metric Jack has faced the fifth most difficult xG2 per attempt of regular keepers in the Championship this season. On average, the on target attempts faced by JB have an 38% chance of being scored based on the quality of the post shot characteristics & pre shot location. By contrast, Brentford's David Raya has faced attempts that have only a 28% chance of turning into goals. This degradation of xG by the time it reaches the keeper (xG2) is most noticeable for Liverpool. Players shooting tend to have defenders leaning all over them. By contrast, we've seen our xG allowed rise by around 10% by the time it reaches the capable hands of our keepers (who haven't been blameless in the shot stopping department), but part of the big under performance is also down to fundamentals, such as lack of defensive pressure. Here's the full list of frequently used keepers and the quality of on shot chances they've faced in the Championship this season. Attachment DeletedOverall we rank JB's shot stopping this season as 23rd out of the 32 most used keepers. |
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Post by basingstokie on Jul 11, 2020 8:47:39 GMT
That to me reads as defence is really good, but once you've got past them you may as well start celebrating ....
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Post by tachyon on Jul 11, 2020 9:26:15 GMT
Our defence is actually the WORST in the league at allowing location based shots and headers against us to turn into difficult to save attempts on target over the season as a whole.
Based on where shots are taken from against us, they are "worth" nearly six extra goals by the time they need saving by our two keepers compared to where they originate.
It's not even particularly close between us and the next two poorest defensive performers, QPR and Reading.
Overall, the league's least efficient defense at supressing dangerous attempts, coupled with the 23rd best shot stopper....is not good.
Derby are the league's best at degrading location based opportunities.
Their location based xG allowed is higher than ours, but they are doing much better than us at preventing dangerous attempts getting on target. That's part of the reson they are dicing with the playoffs and we're dicing with League One.
If I wanted to see what was happening, I'd look at how we defend shots and headers and how Derby do. But obviously I'm not going to do that.
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Post by butlerstbob on Jul 11, 2020 9:32:15 GMT
I would imagine without looking at other stats they are mostly against us, for instance how many times in the last 4-5 years how many times have we gone a goal behind before going on to win?
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jul 11, 2020 9:40:08 GMT
Our defence is actually the WORST in the league at allowing location based shots and headers against us to turn into difficult to save attempts on target over the season as a whole. Based on where shots are taken from against us, they are "worth" nearly six extra goals by the time they need saving by our two keepers compared to where they originate. It's not even particularly close between us and the next two poorest defensive performers, QPR and Reading. Overall, the league's least efficient defense at supressing dangerous attempts, coupled with the 23rd best shot stopper....is not good. Derby are the league's best at degrading location based opportunities. Their location based xG allowed is higher than ours, but they are doing much better than us at preventing dangerous attempts getting on target. That's part of the reson they are dicing with the playoffs and we're dicing with League One. If I wanted to see what was happening, I'd look at how we defend shots and headers and how Derby do. But obviously I'm not going to do that. Superb analysis. I think one reason could be that at the back we are constantly changing, disorganised, and you could see against Leeds when a man picks up space between two defenders neither knows if the other is going to pick him up and there is a lack of pace to compensate that lack of understanding to get in the blocks, take the striker wide making their shot 'less' dangerous. We should have settled on Collins, and sadly Batth at the centre of the back four with smith and bruno the full backs. That's the best we can do for now. Buy a new defence in the summer |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 9:42:17 GMT
I would imagine without looking at other stats they are mostly against us, for instance how many times in the last 4-5 years how many times have we gone a goal behind before going on to win? Not sure, but 3 times under MON. Wigan and Sheff Wed at home, Huddersfield away. I’d hazard a guess it’s not many more than that over the previous 4 years. EDIT I’ve just checked. The 3 times previous to MON’s reign wereboth the Swansea home and away games in our Premier League relegation season, and West Ham at home on the last day of the 2015-16 season. Pretty pathetic...... |
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