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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 10:54:28 GMT
Cartwright was the boo boy for a long time, but he's gone and honestly our transfers have probably been even worse since his leaving. This witch hunting is going to continue until there is some transparency about the roles of those in the senior management of the club. It seems quite insane that we are in such a mess yet we can only speculate as to who is to blame, because we literally do not know the roles people have at this club. Can the Supporters Council push to understand the positions of those at the club, and if they already have then can they relay us exactly what is known?  |
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Post by iglugluk on Jul 10, 2020 11:00:37 GMT
Absolutely right!
The level of mismanagement over the past 3/4 seasons has been spectacular. The amount of money spent to get where we now find ourselves is mindblowing.
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Post by DC1863 on Jul 10, 2020 11:04:59 GMT
Does Jon Coates have any experience running anything at all?
Was he simply given control of the club from his dad with absolutely no relevant experience whatsoever?
How can they (Coates Jr and Scholes) not wonder if they are themselves part of the problem and employ people to work between themselves and the coaching staff, its rank incompetence.
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Post by miggoscfc on Jul 10, 2020 11:11:33 GMT
Does Jon Coates have any experience running anything at all? Was he simply given control of the club from his dad with absolutely no relevant experience whatsoever? How can they (Coates Jr and Scholes) not wonder if they are themselves part of the problem and employ people to work between themselves and the coaching staff, its rank incompetence. He has been his Dads apprentice in everything for the last 40 years and clearly has learned nothing. We don't need an enquiry into who does what. We need a chairman who knows how to run a business and manage his employees. Thats it. Get that one thing right and the whole culture of the club will change. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 11:12:36 GMT
We can clearly sign good players.
Butland
Shawcross
Faye
Whelan
Pieters
NZonzi
Bojan
Munesia
Shaqiri
Arnautovic
Crouch
I just can't work out why every player he have signed in the last 3/4 years has been garbage
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Post by iglugluk on Jul 10, 2020 11:13:37 GMT
Does Jon Coates have any experience running anything at all? Was he simply given control of the club from his dad with absolutely no relevant experience whatsoever? How can they (Coates Jr and Scholes) not wonder if they are themselves part of the problem and employ people to work between themselves and the coaching staff, its rank incompetence. I cannot help but wonder if John is only running the club because he's not trusted with running the 'real' family business. Similar to the way landed gentry families got their less talented sons to join the clergy or the army in order that they couldn't damage the family fortune, in days gone by? |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 10, 2020 11:17:03 GMT
As much as I want it to happen we've been banging our heads against the wall for years. Don't see it happening though sadly so I will keep butting that wall. I actually reckon all they need to do is get a respected football director with pedigree in and the tanker will start turning. But they just seem happy with the jobs for the boys mentality whatever the state of the club.
Its so obvious that we are clueless. It actually beggars belief.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jul 10, 2020 11:20:16 GMT
Cartwright was the boo boy for a long time, but he's gone and honestly our transfers have probably been even worse since his leaving. This witch hunting is going to continue until there is some transparency about the roles of those in the senior management of the club. It seems quite insane that we are in such a mess yet we can only speculate as to who is to blame, because we literally do not know the roles people have at this club. Can the Supporters Council push to understand the positions of those at the club, and if they already have then can they relay us exactly what is known? I think I can help out here? The BoD: Peter Coates..himself John Coates.. daddy Peter’s son Tony Scholes..daddy Peter’s adopted son Richard Smith..daddy in law Peter’s son Owner: Denise.. .daddy Peter’s daughter. Pity, Jeremy Kyle doesn’t broadcast anymore? Otherwise, the milkman might get on the Board? |
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Post by miggoscfc on Jul 10, 2020 11:29:54 GMT
Does Jon Coates have any experience running anything at all? Was he simply given control of the club from his dad with absolutely no relevant experience whatsoever? How can they (Coates Jr and Scholes) not wonder if they are themselves part of the problem and employ people to work between themselves and the coaching staff, its rank incompetence. I cannot help but wonder if John is only running the club because he's not trusted with running the 'real' family business. Similar to the way landed gentry families got their less talented sons to join the clergy or the army in order that they couldn't damage the family fortune, in days gone by? John had no hand in creating or running Bet365 it was all Denise supported by Petes cash from the sale of the betting shops. John has done nothing of any substance his whole life, as far as I am aware he has never had a real job other than be his dads right hand enabled by the fact he has been given a token share in Bet365 and handed the reigns of a football club because of his last name. The problems at the club start and end with the man at the very top not having a sodding clue what to do other than write checks and ask his mates in the pub what manager to employ. Is it any wonder the club is such a mess. |
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Post by questionable on Jul 10, 2020 11:31:07 GMT
Look no further than Oct 2016, obviously Peters one man crusade by dealing with small fry agents:
Stoke City chairman Peter Coates wants a Premier League cap on agents' fees but admits he is fighting a losing battle.
Recent figures showed clubs paid a total of £46.5m to agents between last October and February.
"I wish we did it better but it doesn't look as though there's anything in sight," Coates told The Sentinel.
"I'd like to have an agreement among all clubs about how much agents got paid, so a percentage or whatever, but we can't reach an agreement.
"It's a big chunk of money they get and that's going out of the game, but there's no change in sight.
"You'd have to get the clubs to agree and that can be difficult because they want to be flexible to do their own thing and believe the less interference the better.
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Post by hcstokie on Jul 10, 2020 11:31:25 GMT
Cartwright was the boo boy for a long time, but he's gone and honestly our transfers have probably been even worse since his leaving. This witch hunting is going to continue until there is some transparency about the roles of those in the senior management of the club. It seems quite insane that we are in such a mess yet we can only speculate as to who is to blame, because we literally do not know the roles people have at this club. Can the Supporters Council push to understand the positions of those at the club, and if they already have then can they relay us exactly what is known? I may have mentioned it during our Prem relegation season but can’t remember now, but I think that given the prolonged level of failure over the last few years it wouldn’t be unreasonable for the council to request job descriptions for the senior management positions e.g. chief exec, recruitment, etc. This would allow supporters to have a bit of clarity on the structure and responsibilities within the club and then carry out a more informed appraisal of performance instead of constant finger pointing and confusing regarding who exactly should be responsible. |
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Post by questionable on Jul 10, 2020 11:36:44 GMT
I cannot help but wonder if John is only running the club because he's not trusted with running the 'real' family business. Similar to the way landed gentry families got their less talented sons to join the clergy or the army in order that they couldn't damage the family fortune, in days gone by? John had no hand in creating or running Bet365 it was all Denise supported by Petes cash from the sale of the betting shops. John has done nothing of any substance his whole life, as far as I am aware he has never had a real job other than be his dads right hand enabled by the fact he has been given a token share in Bet365 and handed the reigns of a football club because of his last name. The problems at the club start and end with the man at the very top not having a sodding clue what to do other than write checks and ask his mates in the pub what manager to employ. Is it any wonder the club is such a mess. I was told of one deal he tried to negotiate and people were slating a previous kit supplier when in fact they basically gave Stoke the V’s and moved on, embarrassing isn’t the word from what I was told. |
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Post by potterpaul on Jul 10, 2020 11:40:21 GMT
We can clearly sign good players. Butland Shawcross Faye Whelan Pieters NZonzi Bojan Munesia Shaqiri Arnautovic Crouch I just can't work out why every player he have signed in the last 3/4 years has been garbage And when we get the right players we let them go for peanuts. It's bad business no matter what happens |
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 10, 2020 11:58:44 GMT
Haven’t the supporters council raised this before before being met with one of Scholes ferocious backhands that made it categorical that they weren’t going to share business information like this?
I don’t know, I might be thinking of something else but either way I doubt they’d share it if it meant someone was proven to be at fault - continuously...
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Post by hcstokie on Jul 10, 2020 12:19:45 GMT
Haven’t the supporters council raised this before before being met with one of Scholes ferocious backhands that made it categorical that they weren’t going to share business information like this? I don’t know, I might be thinking of something else but either way I doubt they’d share it if it meant someone was proven to be at fault - continuously... If that’s the case the you may as well disband the council now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 12:21:38 GMT
What transfer process problem?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 10, 2020 12:24:14 GMT
Haven’t the supporters council raised this before before being met with one of Scholes ferocious backhands that made it categorical that they weren’t going to share business information like this? I don’t know, I might be thinking of something else but either way I doubt they’d share it if it meant someone was proven to be at fault - continuously... If that’s the case the you may as well disband the council now. I respect what the supporters council try and do but to be fair its like trying to get accurate information out of the CCP. |
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Post by Little Gary Patel on Jul 10, 2020 12:35:51 GMT
we buy players that the manager wants, and when we've changed manager so frequently we get left with a load of shit that doesn't fit the next manager.
if we actually had a solid plan for recruitment, we should be able to hire managers who will fit with what we have. but we don't, and the way they seem to run the club, I can't see it happening.
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Post by flea79 on Jul 10, 2020 12:42:33 GMT
Haven’t the supporters council raised this before before being met with one of Scholes ferocious backhands that made it categorical that they weren’t going to share business information like this? I don’t know, I might be thinking of something else but either way I doubt they’d share it if it meant someone was proven to be at fault - continuously... If that’s the case the you may as well disband the council now. the council do a great job representing fans views and requests but they meet a brick wall when it comes to commercial and business discussion, they are only a group of fans and not members of the board, this is why the german system works where actual fans sit on the board of a club and things are more transparent we all understand the major issue is Scholes, in any other business the loss of a contract worth over a 100 million a year which is what the PL is would be met with a request for resignation, not here though, give the cunt a pay rise and let him carry on |
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Post by hcstokie on Jul 10, 2020 12:42:56 GMT
If that’s the case the you may as well disband the council now. I respect what the supporters council try and do but to be fair its like trying to get accurate information out of the CCP. Same here - fair play to them for giving up their time to act on the supporter’s behalf. If the club don’t wish to be held to account at such forums then it’s a fairly pointless exercise. Perhaps some messaging to clarify the role of the council would be useful to manage people’s expectations of what they can / can’t ask. I just think that the club simply supplying some job descriptions and clarity around structure and responsibilities would be beneficial. The club wouldn’t be sharing sensitive information or be in breach of data protection so is it really that much to ask? |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 10, 2020 12:49:43 GMT
I respect what the supporters council try and do but to be fair its like trying to get accurate information out of the CCP. Same here - fair play to them for giving up their time to act on the supporter’s behalf. If the club don’t wish to be held to account at such forums then it’s a fairly pointless exercise. Perhaps some messaging to clarify the role of the council would be useful to manage people’s expectations of what they can / can’t ask. I just think that the club simply supplying some job descriptions and clarity around structure and responsibilities would be beneficial. The club wouldn’t be sharing sensitive information or be in breach of data protection so is it really that much to ask? It shouldn't be too much to ask at all. But nothing will change because that's exactly how they like it. |
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Post by ange1 on Jul 10, 2020 17:01:18 GMT
Just to clarify, we do ask, we will ask again and whatever the result of the last four games we will be pressing for more information, but as already stated in this thread, if the owners and CEO do not wish to explain anything regarding the business operations of the club, then they are not obliged to do so. Everything crossed for Sunday.
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Post by iglugluk on Jul 10, 2020 17:04:50 GMT
Just to clarify, we do ask, we will ask again and whatever the result of the last four games we will be pressing for more information, but as already stated in this thread, if the owners and CEO do not wish to explain anything regarding the business operations of the club, then they are not obliged to do so. Everything crossed for Sunday. When you have the chance to put questions to the decision makers do you get any impression that they have an understanding of how badly managed the last few seasons have been and subsequently have any clue how to fix whatever it is they're doing wrong? |
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Post by iglugluk on Jul 10, 2020 17:47:27 GMT
Just to clarify, we do ask, we will ask again and whatever the result of the last four games we will be pressing for more information, but as already stated in this thread, if the owners and CEO do not wish to explain anything regarding the business operations of the club, then they are not obliged to do so. Everything crossed for Sunday. When you have the chance to put questions to the decision makers do you get any impression that they have an understanding of how badly managed the last few seasons have been and subsequently have any clue how to fix whatever it is they're doing wrong? Need to know basis only it seems 😁 |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 10, 2020 18:00:33 GMT
Just to clarify, we do ask, we will ask again and whatever the result of the last four games we will be pressing for more information, but as already stated in this thread, if the owners and CEO do not wish to explain anything regarding the business operations of the club, then they are not obliged to do so. Everything crossed for Sunday. Just tell them they need a high quality director of football to come up with a coherent plan and help them get out of this mess. Oh and ask them why a someone in a van outside the ground can knock up better snapping than they can with acres of catering facilities inside the ground. Cheers. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jul 10, 2020 22:36:28 GMT
Just to clarify, we do ask, we will ask again and whatever the result of the last four games we will be pressing for more information, but as already stated in this thread, if the owners and CEO do not wish to explain anything regarding the business operations of the club, then they are not obliged to do so. Everything crossed for Sunday. It's a matter of interpretation The relevant EFL regulation states 118.1 Clubs shall hold at least two meetings/fans forums per Season to which its supporters (or representatives) are to be invited in order to discuss significant issues relating to the Club. They are obliged by rule to discuss 'significant issues'. That is a relatively vague phrase which can be open to interpretation but there is no exclusion within the rule for 'business operations', whatever that might be said to mean. I certainly think that there is no good reason why job descriptions and who has responsibility for what at the club, as requested above, shouldn't be disclosed. I would go further than that and say that any reasonable interpretation of 'significant issues' would include the overall financial situation of the club and future projections. |
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 10, 2020 23:00:16 GMT
Haven’t the supporters council raised this before before being met with one of Scholes ferocious backhands that made it categorical that they weren’t going to share business information like this? I don’t know, I might be thinking of something else but either way I doubt they’d share it if it meant someone was proven to be at fault - continuously... If that’s the case the you may as well disband the council now. Disagree. The supporters council do a good job considering their position. They do a lot for the match day experience and should be applauded for their efforts. Unfortunately the club is a business and they're not going to give away any of their "secrets" (imagine that as a book) just because a customer is a bit upset. This is football now. Tesco might send you an email asking for feedback on the shopping experience but they ain't going to invite you to a board meeting to explain why butter sales are down this month. Your loyalty probably neans the same them to as it does to the hierarchy at Stoke unfortunately. |
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Post by citynickscfc on Jul 10, 2020 23:33:45 GMT
If that’s the case the you may as well disband the council now. Disagree. The supporters council do a good job considering their position. They do a lot for the match day experience and should be applauded for their efforts. Unfortunately the club is a business and they're not going to give away any of their "secrets" (imagine that as a book) just because a customer is a bit upset. This is football now. Tesco might send you an email asking for feedback on the shopping experience but they ain't going to invite you to a board meeting to explain why butter sales are down this month. Your loyalty probably neans the same them to as it does to the hierarchy at Stoke unfortunately. Disagree that the supporters council do anything beyond what should already be done by the club. It's a bit like politics, the supporters council keep the tiny proportions of improved experiences going, and they are essentially controlled, authorised and organised by the club as a private council, and the supporters feel that they are "winning" or "having a say" (sound familiar yet??). That's generally how power relations work and how populations are governed, football fandom isn't that different. They need us but we are but an expendable resource drained for economic reasons. The disconnect between the club and the fans has rarely been greater in my opinion. Stoke city has absolutely zero football culture. |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 10, 2020 23:33:49 GMT
We can clearly sign good players. Butland Shawcross Faye Whelan Pieters NZonzi Bojan Munesia Shaqiri Arnautovic Crouch I just can't work out why every player he have signed in the last 3/4 years has been garbage The managers picking them haven't been much cop. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 6:36:45 GMT
Disagree. The supporters council do a good job considering their position. They do a lot for the match day experience and should be applauded for their efforts. Unfortunately the club is a business and they're not going to give away any of their "secrets" (imagine that as a book) just because a customer is a bit upset. This is football now. Tesco might send you an email asking for feedback on the shopping experience but they ain't going to invite you to a board meeting to explain why butter sales are down this month. Your loyalty probably neans the same them to as it does to the hierarchy at Stoke unfortunately. Disagree that the supporters council do anything beyond what should already be done by the club. It's a bit like politics, the supporters council keep the tiny proportions of improved experiences going, and they are essentially controlled, authorised and organised by the club as a private council, and the supporters feel that they are "winning" or "having a say" (sound familiar yet??). That's generally how power relations work and how populations are governed, football fandom isn't that different. They need us but we are but an expendable resource drained for economic reasons. The disconnect between the club and the fans has rarely been greater in my opinion. Stoke city has absolutely zero football culture. Maybe when our CEO awakes from his slumber and looks at the bottom line during this period, he can and will realise the true value of bums on seats and will start about a true change of the relationship between club and fans. Just throwing us a bone of free transport and frozen ST prices won't cut it in League One, or even the Championship when trying to rebuild. It sounds ungrateful, and maybe it is, but there needs to be more direct interaction in and around the stadium as a minimum. More needs to be done about the matchday experience ranging from facilities in and around the stadium to the, at times, over zealous stewarding outside the turnstiles. When you go away to, now basement division and ex non league, Tranmere Rovers in pre season and find they have a fan zone (for example) and when talking to their staff about contactless payment that had been there for years(just as we were releasing ours under a fanfare of achievement) then you know just how out of touch the club are. We aren't in the PL anymore where you can do the bare minimum because Manchester United at home will drag people in through the doors regardless. If we end up in League One then people will need attracting in. Accrington Stanley at home on a Wednesday night won't have people rushing to the stadium straight from work without having anything to eat for their tea/dinner, with very little to subsidise it at the stadium. Lazy, arrogant leadership that will simply have to change. |
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