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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2020 20:27:17 GMT
What a mess. One of the many reasons we were all eager to get ourselves out of the hole we were in, without the need for relying on points deductions. I can see Wigan appealing and I can see it being thrown over the fence to an appeals committee, with any decision being delayed until next year. I can't see Sheffield Wednesday getting their decision this season either. Indeed, I'd be pretty nervous now if we hadn't got a result on Saturday. How does this effect all the bets that have been placed on the relegation spots? They're simply not going to follow through with the punishments if it means that as a result, those teams finish in the bottom three, are they? I'd say one of those tweets is correct, that the EFL will be hoping Wigan have enough points to stay up with a deduction, then it's pretty much case closed and they can all move on - with the others (Derby and Sheffield Wednesday) allowed to carry on ad infinitum. If they don't, I reckon they will allow the appeal to drag on even if the rules state it must be heard within 21 days of an appeal, which squeekster above says has already been submitted. They will simply allow it to drag over to next season - let Wigan start on -12 next season and use extenuating circumstances as a defence for any legal proceedings from other clubs. It's easy for us right now sat where we are but if our own FFP issues start to bite then we'll be stuck in amongst this mess one day in the future and I have absolutely no faith in the EFL and even less faith in our rival clubs who will only be too happy to stick the knife into us.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 20, 2020 20:28:21 GMT
If they don't get the deduction this season its just yet another farce, its ridiculous, just follow the rules and get on with it.
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Post by David Brent on Jul 20, 2020 20:30:49 GMT
That’s good news now we are safe
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 20, 2020 20:30:49 GMT
Worth noting they are appealing different things. Sheff Weds are appealing against the fact they have been charged with misconduct. Wigan appeal is based on the fact that administration was unavoidable due to Covid.May as well save time and not bother, they did the deal while it was going on, incompetence isn't a valid argument/defence.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 20, 2020 20:33:31 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 20, 2020 20:34:52 GMT
Indeed, I'd be pretty nervous now if we hadn't got a result on Saturday. How does this effect all the bets that have been placed on the relegation spots? They're simply not going to follow through with the punishments if it means that as a result, those teams finish in the bottom three, are they? I'd say one of those tweets is correct, that the EFL will be hoping Wigan have enough points to stay up with a deduction, then it's pretty much case closed and they can all move on - with the others (Derby and Sheffield Wednesday) allowed to carry on ad infinitum. If they don't, I reckon they will allow the appeal to drag on even if the rules state it must be heard within 21 days of an appeal, which squeekster above says has already been submitted. They will simply allow it to drag over to next season - let Wigan start on -12 next season and use extenuating circumstances as a defence for any legal proceedings from other clubs. It's easy for us right now sat where we are but if our own FFP issues start to bite then we'll be stuck in amongst this mess one day in the future and I have absolutely no faith in the EFL and even less faith in our rival clubs who will only be too happy to stick the knife into us. I agree with every single word of that mate.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 20, 2020 20:35:49 GMT
Worth noting they are appealing different things. Sheff Weds are appealing against the fact they have been charged with misconduct. Wigan appeal is based on the fact that administration was unavoidable due to Covid.May as well save time and not bother, they did the deal while it was going on, incompetence isn't a valid argument/defence. I’m personally of the same opinion. If the new owners want to have a pop at the EFL in the future for issues with the sale I’m all for it, but with things as they stand now I fail to see how they can avoid it based on the evidence that will go before the committee. Which basically amounts to: “we fucked up sorry, but errrr pandemic”
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Post by Lesalanos on Jul 20, 2020 20:51:05 GMT
That’s good news now we are safe Now we’re staying up I agree!
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Post by jeycov on Jul 20, 2020 20:58:55 GMT
The clubs that are relegated may have something to say about the situation ( in court) if no significant action is taken against these clubs What a mess
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Post by Squeekster on Jul 20, 2020 21:46:16 GMT
Worth noting they are appealing different things. Sheff Weds are appealing against the fact they have been charged with misconduct. Wigan appeal is based on the fact that administration was unavoidable due to Covid. That is correct but the EFL have already said they will not accept that as a valid reason as every other club is going through the same.
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Post by markby on Jul 20, 2020 21:53:03 GMT
If they don't get the deduction this season its just yet another farce, its ridiculous, just follow the rules and get on with it. Disagree. The object of any deduction must be to punish clubs which go into Administration, thereby acting as a deterrent.
But it is the owners who decide when to declare Administration.
If they're in big trouble, they'll do so the minute relegation becomes inevitable, or even highly likely, so as to take the deduction straightaway. That way, it's no further punishment, they were going down anyway.
But if they think they can stay out of the bottom three by the end of the season, then they'll do just enough to keep the club going until the official end of the season and then declare Administration.
That way, they'll start the next season 12 points down, which at least should give them a fighting chance of avoiding the drop.
That is why the EFL is quite right to wait until the last minute before declaring the punishment, so as to be able to second guess the clubs.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 20, 2020 22:01:33 GMT
If they don't get the deduction this season its just yet another farce, its ridiculous, just follow the rules and get on with it. What if the rules are the problem and this is a way to get rid of them? (Thinking of the future here and if the old "being sponsored by a gambling company" becomes an issue we can cite this in our defence)
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Post by spiderpuss on Jul 20, 2020 22:19:38 GMT
It will be a tug-of-war-situation. Relegate the culprits and they go to court blaming Covid-19, relegate who's at the bottom and they go to court saying rules haven't been followed. We might not know who we are playing when we should be playing them.
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Post by xchpotter on Jul 20, 2020 22:32:03 GMT
It will be a tug-of-war-situation. Relegate the culprits and they go to court blaming Covid-19, relegate who's at the bottom and they go to court saying rules haven't been followed. We might not know who we are playing when we should be playing them. Yep and the only winner will inevitably be the weasel piece of shit solicitors in the legal profession ripping the arse out of it for a fast buck.
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 20, 2020 22:55:15 GMT
FA Statement: 20th July
So this deferral until next season is not true according to this. Clear as mud!!!
We recognise the desire amongst stakeholders, not least from our own members, but also their respective supporters and representatives of the media, for clarity on the current position.
At the point a Club is charged with misconduct, it is referred to an Independent Disciplinary Commission and from that point onwards, the format and timing of the proceedings are controlled by that of the Independent Commission. Our stated position and the policy agreed with our Clubs is that we do not pass any comment on these individual matters, other than to confirm the charges at the outset and the subsequent outcomes.
The EFL is committed to announcing any final outcome promptly following notification of the decision by the relevant Independent Disciplinary Commission, giving consideration to the issues raised above and in accordance with its regulations.
Independent Disciplinary Commissions are well aware of the challenges for any Club that is subject to proceedings, and the need for clarity for financial and operational planning purposes, particularly ahead of the summer transfer window opening later this month. In addition, there is also the consequential impact to consider on how any decisions may affect other Clubs within a division who require the same courtesy to plan with as much certainty as is practically possible.
Equally, there are the operational pressures this presents the EFL, in areas such as fixture scheduling in the event any decision(s) change a divisional line-up.
In the specific case of Wednesday evening’s final round of Championship matches for season 2019/20, and any potential impact on divisional standings, relegation will be confirmed for the Clubs in 22, 23 and 24 positions in the Championship table following the conclusion of those matches and will be subject to the resolution of any ongoing proceedings.
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Post by markby on Jul 20, 2020 23:57:04 GMT
FA Statement: 20th July So this deferral until next season is not true according to this. Clear as mud!!! In the specific case of Wednesday evening’s final round of Championship matches for season 2019/20, and any potential impact on divisional standings, relegation will be confirmed for the Clubs in 22, 23 and 24 positions in the Championship table following the conclusion of those matches and will be subject to the resolution of any ongoing proceedings. The above is actually from an EFL statement, not the FA
And unless I'm misreading it, then it is clear what approach they will take.
After the final round of games on Wednesday, they will relegate the teams in 22nd, 23rd and 24th positions, unless ("subject to") the disciplinary proceedings vs Derby and S.Wed produce a points deduction which sees one or both of them drop into the bottom three places.
It may be that the EFL intends to conclude those proceedings before the season officially ends (i.e. beginning of August), though they're not saying so since they cannot guarantee it (appeal, court challenge etc). But that still leaves it open to them that any penalty will apply from the start of next season.
Meanwhile, Wigan will receive their 12 points deduction immediately following the Fulham game, which may or may not see them drop into the bottom three. (This is subject to appeal, btw):
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hotpot
Youth Player
Posts: 427
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Post by hotpot on Jul 21, 2020 4:37:14 GMT
Hope Wigan wins their last game .
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Post by sportsman on Jul 21, 2020 5:41:42 GMT
Whatever the situation with each club, if they have acted improper then they need a punishment. If you are 20 points above a relegation, what's the punishment in getting 12 points deducted this season? Got to be next. If it's a 12 point deduction that is always handed out we could spend 300m this summer and attract whoever we wanted to ensure we most likely would be more than 12 points from 3rd next season, then take 12 off us to still leave us promoted. A punishment must fit each club, and if wigan are trying to blame it on covid and its proved or obvious it isn't, double the points deducted. If you've done something crafty and tried to get around the rules like selling your own ground to yourselves and hoped not to be found out then double the points etc.
If you're a club that keeps trying to get others in trouble like boro, then give them a little deduction for being grassy little shits 😁
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Post by zerps on Jul 21, 2020 5:42:16 GMT
That’s better for us if true Next season? Yarp, we start 12 points ahead of two teams
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Post by nott1 on Jul 21, 2020 6:30:31 GMT
What is the point of FFP.....Stoke should be allowed to spend as much as they like to get us back in the prem. It's where we belong and our owners can afford it. If some others go bust so what? Abandon FFP, it's daft and badly run! Now let's go get Messi.
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Post by Squeekster on Jul 21, 2020 6:40:12 GMT
Yarp, we start 12 points ahead of two teams Wigan, Sheff weds, Derby and I think Birmingham still have the breaking of FFP hanging over them, wouldn't that be something if 4 teams started next season on minus points.
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Post by upthefud on Jul 21, 2020 6:42:00 GMT
What is the point of FFP.....Stoke should be allowed to spend as much as they like to get us back in the prem. It's where we belong and our owners can afford it. If some others go bust so what? Abandon FFP, it's daft and badly run! Now let's go get Messi. Until we do a Wimbledon
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Post by chad on Jul 21, 2020 6:45:18 GMT
Yarp, we start 12 points ahead of two teams Wigan, Sheff weds, Derby and I think Birmingham still have the breaking of FFP hanging over them, wouldn't that be something if 4 teams started next season on minus points. Yep. Give us a fighting chance of staying up 😊
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Post by zerps on Jul 21, 2020 7:05:42 GMT
Yarp, we start 12 points ahead of two teams Wigan, Sheff weds, Derby and I think Birmingham still have the breaking of FFP hanging over them, wouldn't that be something if 4 teams started next season on minus points. Would be brilliant 😂
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 21, 2020 7:06:35 GMT
FA Statement: 20th July So this deferral until next season is not true according to this. Clear as mud!!! In the specific case of Wednesday evening’s final round of Championship matches for season 2019/20, and any potential impact on divisional standings, relegation will be confirmed for the Clubs in 22, 23 and 24 positions in the Championship table following the conclusion of those matches and will be subject to the resolution of any ongoing proceedings. The above is actually from an EFL statement, not the FA
And unless I'm misreading it, then it is clear what approach they will take.
After the final round of games on Wednesday, they will relegate the teams in 22nd, 23rd and 24th positions, unless ("subject to") the disciplinary proceedings vs Derby and S.Wed produce a points deduction which sees one or both of them drop into the bottom three places.
It may be that the EFL intends to conclude those proceedings before the season officially ends (i.e. beginning of August), though they're not saying so since they cannot guarantee it (appeal, court challenge etc). But that still leaves it open to them that any penalty will apply from the start of next season.
Meanwhile, Wigan will receive their 12 points deduction immediately following the Fulham game, which may or may not see them drop into the bottom three. (This is subject to appeal, btw): The issue there is that if SW and Derby were 12pts (for argument sake) above relegation the EFL will then decide to deduct them 11pts to secure their status. It should be done before the last game because it does away with the conspiracy theories. Can you imagine being Luton or Barnsley requiring those clubs to be deducted 12pts to survive only for the EFL to deduct 11 it stinks. In effect they can chose who to relegate its beyond shite.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jul 21, 2020 9:00:43 GMT
It's easy for us right now sat where we are but if our own FFP issues start to bite then we'll be stuck in amongst this mess one day in the future and I have absolutely no faith in the EFL and even less faith in our rival clubs who will only be too happy to stick the knife into us. Exactly this. I know someone involved with the finances at Derby. He says there are several clubs (chiefly Middlesbrough who he totally despises but he mentioned 2 or 3 others I think Bristol are one) who are desperate to stick the knife into Derby and trying their hardest to get them punished although he is confident Derby have done nothing against the rules having had the ground valued by independent agents (I know sounds a bit dodgy that the valuation was just what Derby needed it to be but he says you can't prove any wrong doing whereas Derby did everything by the book). Guess which club have been most supportive of Derby? Yes, the club he probably hated the most before they got relegated, your one and only Stoke City. He is full of admiration and praise for the way Stoke and particularly Coates have given support as opposed to most other clubs urging punishment for Derby. Being cynical perhaps we're hoping for reciprocal support but he says not, Coates just thinks FFP in the EFL is totally unfair.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 9:14:31 GMT
Exactly this. I know someone involved with the finances at Derby. He says there are several clubs (chiefly Middlesbrough who he totally despises but he mentioned 2 or 3 others I think Bristol are one) who are desperate to stick the knife into Derby and trying their hardest to get them punished although he is confident Derby have done nothing against the rules having had the ground valued by independent agents (I know sounds a bit dodgy that the valuation was just what Derby needed it to be but he says you can't prove any wrong doing whereas Derby did everything by the book). Guess which club have been most supportive of Derby? Yes, the club he probably hated the most before they got relegated, your one and only Stoke City. He is full of admiration and praise for the way Stoke and particularly Coates have given support as opposed to most other clubs urging punishment for Derby. Being cynical perhaps we're hoping for reciprocal support but he says not, Coates just thinks FFP in the EFL is totally unfair. Whilst John Coates rues the fact that he has lost his red and blue crayons out of his new Crayola set
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 22, 2020 12:17:37 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 22, 2020 12:19:32 GMT
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Post by march4 on Jul 22, 2020 12:29:01 GMT
Scrap FFP now.
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