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Post by werrington on Jul 13, 2020 11:53:02 GMT
Apologies for butting in but hopefully this explains it. "If in the event the Club is relegated by virtue of their final position following the conclusion of the Championship season, then the deduction will apply in League One in 2020/21. However, if the Club is not in the relegation places following the final game of season, the sanction will be then be applied to their season 2019/20 total and final league standings amended as appropriate." www.efl.com/news/2020/july/efl-statement-wigan-athletic/The rules changed a few years ago when an already relegated Leeds went into administration, took the points deduction and started the following season clean (well cleanish). There is a timing issue, if you enter administration before 3rd March, I think, the points are deducted immediately. If after league position dictates whether it's applied to the current season or next. Leeds lost at Hull in their penultimate league game which confirmed their relegation and went into administration within the hour as they deliberately held it back until relegation was confirmed It was because of this the rules were changed
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 13, 2020 12:08:39 GMT
Apologies for butting in but hopefully this explains it. "If in the event the Club is relegated by virtue of their final position following the conclusion of the Championship season, then the deduction will apply in League One in 2020/21. However, if the Club is not in the relegation places following the final game of season, the sanction will be then be applied to their season 2019/20 total and final league standings amended as appropriate." www.efl.com/news/2020/july/efl-statement-wigan-athletic/The policy is still flawed then according to this. Wigan could still stay up with a 12 point deduction and start again next season in the Championship, under new ownership with a clean slate financially. What sort of punishment is that ? Clubs can almost plan for administration by over-spending and time it for their own benefit - or am I mis-reading the situation ? No you are not misreading the situation, you are absolutely correct and (as I said earlier in the thread) it seems totally illogical to me. If you're going to punish a team by holding back the 12 point deduction to the following season because they finished in the bottom three anyway, then surely the logical thing to do, is to hold back the 12 point deduction to the following season, if, in implementing it this season, it doesn't actually result in their relegation. As you say, as it is, it's hardly a punishment at all.
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Post by OldStokie on Jul 13, 2020 12:11:32 GMT
If Wigan avoid relegation even after a 12 point deduction, does that mean the alleged owners who placed the alleged one hundred million quid on them going down don't get paid out and they lose alleged one hundred million? OS.
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Post by flea79 on Jul 13, 2020 12:19:23 GMT
If Wigan avoid relegation even after a 12 point deduction, does that mean the alleged owners who placed the alleged one hundred million quid on them going down don't get paid out and they lose alleged one hundred million? OS. this would appear to be correct, sadly they will liquidate wigan and thats the end i guess
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Post by AlliG on Jul 13, 2020 12:24:55 GMT
If Wigan avoid relegation even after a 12 point deduction, does that mean the alleged owners who placed the alleged one hundred million quid on them going down don't get paid out and they lose alleged one hundred million? OS. Under the EFL rules there are potentially further points deductions if the club fail to pay their players on time and/or if they fail to pay their creditors at least 25p in the pound.
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Post by OldStokie on Jul 13, 2020 12:27:07 GMT
If Wigan avoid relegation even after a 12 point deduction, does that mean the alleged owners who placed the alleged one hundred million quid on them going down don't get paid out and they lose alleged one hundred million? OS. this would appear to be correct, sadly they will liquidate wigan and thats the end i guess That's very sad for The Latics unless a new buyer can be found to buy them out of the hands of the administrators. But Karma does work in mysterious ways. I'll give my old, fat Buddha a tummy rub and have a word in his ear and tell him that, providing Stoke don't suffer as a consequence, to keep Wigan up and to find a decent new buyer for the club who will pay the players' wages and sort out their debt properly. OS.
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Post by skip on Jul 13, 2020 12:41:46 GMT
The EFL have always said that if Wigan finish in the bottom three this season, then their 12 point deduction will be applied next season but if they finish outside the bottom three, then it will be applied this season. If Hull don't beat Wigan on Tuesday, then it will be impossible for Wigan to finish in the bottom three this season, so therefore, is there any reason why their deduction shouldn't be applied immediately, if this happens? For one thing it would be a psychological boost to the teams around them.
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Post by skip on Jul 13, 2020 12:43:04 GMT
this would appear to be correct, sadly they will liquidate wigan and thats the end i guess That's very sad for The Latics unless a new buyer can be found to buy them out of the hands of the administrators. But Karma does work in mysterious ways. I'll give my old, fat Buddha a tummy rub and have a word in his ear and tell him that, providing Stoke don't suffer as a consequence, to keep Wigan up and to find a decent new buyer for the club who will pay the players' wages and sort out their debt properly. OS. I don't think Budda does provisos so best left alone for Stoke's sake.
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Post by flea79 on Jul 13, 2020 12:44:23 GMT
this would appear to be correct, sadly they will liquidate wigan and thats the end i guess That's very sad for The Latics unless a new buyer can be found to buy them out of the hands of the administrators. But Karma does work in mysterious ways. I'll give my old, fat Buddha a tummy rub and have a word in his ear and tell him that, providing Stoke don't suffer as a consequence, to keep Wigan up and to find a decent new buyer for the club who will pay the players' wages and sort out their debt properly. OS. Given the current market who will really want to buy a club outside the prem? With No week to week income for the clubs except maybe shirt sales they really are the ultimate money pits...... It’s actually a very desperate situation and I could see the day after the last round of fixtures a few more clubs entering administration
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 13, 2020 12:48:11 GMT
The EFL have always said that if Wigan finish in the bottom three this season, then their 12 point deduction will be applied next season but if they finish outside the bottom three, then it will be applied this season. If Hull don't beat Wigan on Tuesday, then it will be impossible for Wigan to finish in the bottom three this season, so therefore, is there any reason why their deduction shouldn't be applied immediately, if this happens? For one thing it would be a psychological boost to the teams around them. Fair point. But surely it would apply equally to everybody, so there is no issue. Isn't it better for everybody to know where everybody stands as early as possible?
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Post by OldStokie on Jul 13, 2020 12:49:04 GMT
That's very sad for The Latics unless a new buyer can be found to buy them out of the hands of the administrators. But Karma does work in mysterious ways. I'll give my old, fat Buddha a tummy rub and have a word in his ear and tell him that, providing Stoke don't suffer as a consequence, to keep Wigan up and to find a decent new buyer for the club who will pay the players' wages and sort out their debt properly. OS. I don't think Budda does provisos so best left alone for Stoke's sake. Wise advice and point taken, Skip. Was about to do my 'Ommmm' but I won't now. OS.
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Post by chigstoke on Jul 13, 2020 12:51:32 GMT
That's very sad for The Latics unless a new buyer can be found to buy them out of the hands of the administrators. But Karma does work in mysterious ways. I'll give my old, fat Buddha a tummy rub and have a word in his ear and tell him that, providing Stoke don't suffer as a consequence, to keep Wigan up and to find a decent new buyer for the club who will pay the players' wages and sort out their debt properly. OS. Given the current market who will really want to buy a club outside the prem? With No week to week income for the clubs except maybe shirt sales they really are the ultimate money pits...... It’s actually a very desperate situation and I could see the day after the last round of fixtures a few more clubs entering administration I have a feeling that after the season is finished it could be a bit of a footballing bloodbath, particularly for L1 and L2. I don’t think it’ll be pretty.
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Post by flea79 on Jul 13, 2020 13:13:20 GMT
Given the current market who will really want to buy a club outside the prem? With No week to week income for the clubs except maybe shirt sales they really are the ultimate money pits...... It’s actually a very desperate situation and I could see the day after the last round of fixtures a few more clubs entering administration I have a feeling that after the season is finished it could be a bit of a footballing bloodbath, particularly for L1 and L2. I don’t think it’ll be pretty. I think one of the ideas is to join league two with top level of conference and make it a north and south league to try and help with costs which is great if your south but in the north it’s so spread out with teams like Carlisle etc It’s going to be dreadful
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Post by chigstoke on Jul 13, 2020 14:13:32 GMT
I have a feeling that after the season is finished it could be a bit of a footballing bloodbath, particularly for L1 and L2. I don’t think it’ll be pretty. I think one of the ideas is to join league two with top level of conference and make it a north and south league to try and help with costs which is great if your south but in the north it’s so spread out with teams like Carlisle etc It’s going to be dreadful Thats bad enough, but what about League 1? A lot of teams in there aren’t going to be able to last very long without the income. Do they merge it with the Championship of a large number of teams go bump in that league and our league? Uncertain times.
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Post by flea79 on Jul 13, 2020 14:27:51 GMT
I think one of the ideas is to join league two with top level of conference and make it a north and south league to try and help with costs which is great if your south but in the north it’s so spread out with teams like Carlisle etc It’s going to be dreadful Thats bad enough, but what about League 1? A lot of teams in there aren’t going to be able to last very long without the income. Do they merge it with the Championship of a large number of teams go bump in that league and our league? Uncertain times. I’m guessing that by making league two some weird semi pro league (sorry vale) that more money will be floated into league one? Of course it’s all rumour and idea currently but something needs to happen and fast
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Post by wrighter on Jul 13, 2020 14:29:57 GMT
Some supporters moan about the Coates family [ not me] Thank God they are our owners, at least we are stable on that score
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Post by chigstoke on Jul 13, 2020 14:36:43 GMT
Thats bad enough, but what about League 1? A lot of teams in there aren’t going to be able to last very long without the income. Do they merge it with the Championship of a large number of teams go bump in that league and our league? Uncertain times. I’m guessing that by making league two some weird semi pro league (sorry vale) that more money will be floated into league one? Of course it’s all rumour and idea currently but something needs to happen and fast They’d have to ensure that teams in the new League 2 should they go up have enough financial stability to at least survive in the new League 1 as well.
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Post by biglad180 on Jul 13, 2020 15:46:06 GMT
if i was Martin Oneil i would have a word with nick powell he should no there best players if the worst comes to the worst for them
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Post by werrington on Jul 13, 2020 15:48:23 GMT
if i was Martin Oneil i would have a word with nick powell he should no there best players if the worst comes to the worst for them Not sure Martin O’Neill would be that interested mate
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Post by chigstoke on Jul 13, 2020 16:02:12 GMT
if i was Martin Oneil i would have a word with nick powell he should no there best players if the worst comes to the worst for them Not sure Martin O’Neill would be that interested mate This one is becoming a bit of a regular mistake for some
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Post by biglad180 on Jul 13, 2020 16:05:16 GMT
if i was Martin Oneil i would have a word with nick powell he should no there best players if the worst comes to the worst for them Not sure Martin O’Neill would be that interested mate oops ment Micheal
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teflondel
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Post by teflondel on Jul 13, 2020 16:19:09 GMT
Not sure Martin O’Neill would be that interested mate oops ment Micheal Who the fuck is Martin O’Michael ? 🤣🤣
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Post by spiderpuss on Jul 13, 2020 16:22:06 GMT
Some supporters moan about the Coates family [ not me] Thank God they are our owners, at least we are stable on that score In the current crisis they seem to be gold-dust. Owners aren't beyond fair criticism and boy do our owners cop it for endless bad managers that have been ushered to and fro. However, no way on Earth do I want them out of the club.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 16, 2020 7:10:40 GMT
If this happens and Barnsley lose tonight we’re safe.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 16, 2020 7:17:54 GMT
If this happens and Barnsley lose tonight we’re safe. Not true🙄Here we go again😄If Wigan win at Charlton and we lose our last 2 a Charlton win at Leeds could still send us down because the goal difference is so close,highly unlikely but possible
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Post by Gods on Jul 16, 2020 7:18:23 GMT
The policy is still flawed then according to this. Wigan could still stay up with a 12 point deduction and start again next season in the Championship, under new ownership with a clean slate financially. What sort of punishment is that ? Clubs can almost plan for administration by over-spending and time it for their own benefit - or am I mis-reading the situation ? No you are not misreading the situation, you are absolutely correct and (as I said earlier in the thread) it seems totally illogical to me. If you're going to punish a team by holding back the 12 point deduction to the following season because they finished in the bottom three anyway, then surely the logical thing to do, is to hold back the 12 point deduction to the following season, if, in implementing it this season, it doesn't actually result in their relegation. As you say, as it is, it's hardly a punishment at all. I see exactly the logic of what you are saying. However I imagine the reason it is not applied in reverse is that it would hang around for season after season until one fine day it ultimately relegated you. And that wouldn't be much fun for anyone.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jul 16, 2020 9:06:23 GMT
If this happens and Barnsley lose tonight we’re safe. No. If it happens, Barnsley lose and Charlton beat or draw with Wigan we are safe. Or if Barnsley lose and Hull and Luton draw we are safe whatever happens to Wigan
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 16, 2020 9:30:40 GMT
No you are not misreading the situation, you are absolutely correct and (as I said earlier in the thread) it seems totally illogical to me. If you're going to punish a team by holding back the 12 point deduction to the following season because they finished in the bottom three anyway, then surely the logical thing to do, is to hold back the 12 point deduction to the following season, if, in implementing it this season, it doesn't actually result in their relegation. As you say, as it is, it's hardly a punishment at all. I see exactly the logic of what you are saying. However I imagine the reason it is not applied in reverse is that it would hang around for season after season until one fine day it ultimately relegated you. And that wouldn't be much fun for anyone. No, it would be applied at the start of the following season, in exactly the same way it would have had had you been relegated.
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Post by thisisouryear on Jul 16, 2020 9:43:50 GMT
The pressure from the deduction has been taken off Wigan. If the points were deducted they might not be approaching matches with such high confidence. The whole thing is a farce, they should get the points deducted next season regardless.
To me it looks like Wigan took a calculated risk after they beat us, it's a scandal.
Any idea if they have a transfer ban too? I don't think the deduction is enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 9:46:21 GMT
What happens now they've appealed?
Is there a risk it could get carried over to next season until the appeal has properly been heard and processed?
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