|
|
Post by thevoid on Jun 29, 2020 8:24:45 GMT
Not sure where the Scholes vs TP story comes from but I said at the time that it was a mistake parting with Pulis. The decline started the second he left. Zzzzzzzzzzzz |
|
|
|
Post by dan55 on Jun 29, 2020 8:53:34 GMT
I think Michael O'Neill will definitely turn it around, even if we go down I see him doing good for us.
He looked absolutely baffled by the football we were playing on Saturday, like his body language was saying "what are you doing".
Thats not his team at the moment, like to see who he gets rid of and who he brings in over the next few weeks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 9:58:19 GMT
Scholes and pulis , had an altercation ( a row if you prefer ) over what sort of players , Stoke city should be signing Scholes won ,pulis lost and it was good bye TP In the benefit of hindsight , for what that his worth , it turns out that love him or loathe him ( and he certainly divided opinion ) even TP has more idea , of the type of player Stoke city need than Scholes . TP has more of an idea of the type of player HE needs, not Stoke City. He brought players for the now with no resale value. Our issues around recruitment started with him and have never been addressed to this day. This points to an arrogant know nothing ownership who think that money can get you out of any situation. He bought Steven nzonzi for about 5 million from Blackburn , who scholes sold to Seville for about 7 million, who Seville sold to Roma for 23 million . He didn't sign a player with no retail value Scholes got less than he was worth Then got less than Robert Huth was worth , Glenn whelan was worth ,Jon Walters was worth etc We had the best years out of those players , but they had value and were good players Nzonzi left to do well with Seville , Huth left to do well with Leicester, whelan left to do well with villa The fact the club got nowhere near , what they were worth is the club's fault . |
|
|
|
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jun 29, 2020 10:05:36 GMT
TP has more of an idea of the type of player HE needs, not Stoke City. He brought players for the now with no resale value. Our issues around recruitment started with him and have never been addressed to this day. This points to an arrogant know nothing ownership who think that money can get you out of any situation. He bought Steven nzonzi for about 5 million from Blackburn , who scholes sold to Seville for about 7 million, who Seville sold to Roma for 23 million . He didn't sign a player with no retail value Scholes got less than he was worth Then got less than Robert Huth was worth , Glenn whelan was worth ,Jon Walters was worth etc We had the best years out of those players , but they had value and were good players Nzonzi left to do well with Seville , Huth left to do well with Leicester, whelan left to do well with villa The fact the club got nowhere near , what they were worth is the club's fault . Worst of the lot albeit a hughes signing , we sold our best player to a direct relegation rival , who then ripped us apart on our pitch in a critical game . How many times do we hear won’t be sold to a direct rival |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 10:55:46 GMT
like to see who he gets rid of and who he brings in over the next few weeks. Prepare yourself for disappointments. He might like to get rid of Bauer, Tymon, Edwards, and more, but with the players having 3 or more years on their contracts, and nobody wants them, he will be stuck with them. Moreover he will be stuck Badou who he knows won't play for him, but nobody can pay his wages and so they won't buy him. He can probably sell Powell - and after yesterday he might just nurture the feeling for a day or two - even at a profit since he cost us nothing, but then he takes all creativity out of the team. He can probably get a fee for McClean too, but the rest are worthless or immovable. But unless he is able to rid the club of all its dead weight he will be restricted in his transfer activity. |
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Jun 29, 2020 11:27:06 GMT
He bought Steven nzonzi for about 5 million from Blackburn , who scholes sold to Seville for about 7 million, who Seville sold to Roma for 23 million . He didn't sign a player with no retail value Scholes got less than he was worth Then got less than Robert Huth was worth , Glenn whelan was worth ,Jon Walters was worth etc We had the best years out of those players , but they had value and were good players Nzonzi left to do well with Seville , Huth left to do well with Leicester, whelan left to do well with villa The fact the club got nowhere near , what they were worth is the club's fault . Worst of the lot albeit a hughes signing , we sold our best player to a direct relegation rival , who then ripped us apart on our pitch in a critical game . How many times do we hear won’t be sold to a direct rival For a £23million profit.... that's the point. |
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 29, 2020 11:52:22 GMT
Rowett talked himself out of the job. He'd done well before he came here, and he's done well since. He had some kind of compulsion to go toe-to-toe with a fanbase who were very frustrated with what had gone before him. Like you said his record was OK, maybe too many draws, but again, given what's happened since, we'd have been better off sticking with him. His handling of fan feedback/opinion was poor, it cost him his job, and I'm sure he'll have learned from it. When Rowett took over virtually the whole club - fans, players and owners included - were under the delusion that we were a Premier League side slumming it in the Championship. He made the mistake of trying to shatter that delusion and get the club to recognise the reality of the situation and earn success rather than expect it as sme sort of divine right pissing people off along the way. Problem is that delusion still lingers and we'll only live up to or potential when everyone is pulling in the same direction and recognising that succeeding in this division is actually really hard. If Rowett is pissing himself laughing at us now for still not fully recognising we have no more right and actually less chance of promotion than Millwall I wouldn't blame him for a second. |
|
|
|
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jun 29, 2020 12:02:12 GMT
Worst of the lot albeit a hughes signing , we sold our best player to a direct relegation rival , who then ripped us apart on our pitch in a critical game . How many times do we hear won’t be sold to a direct rival For a £23million profit.... that's the point. Cost us £100 m a season |
|
|
|
Post by saxloverscfc on Jun 29, 2020 12:16:40 GMT
Tweeted about this the other day, there has been one constant throughout our rapid decline but the blame is somehow continuously placed onto the numerous players and managers we’ve been through. You only have to look at how our previous managers and players we sold are doing now at their new clubs.
|
|
|
|
Post by telfordstokie on Jun 29, 2020 12:36:24 GMT
Rowett talked himself out of the job. He'd done well before he came here, and he's done well since. He had some kind of compulsion to go toe-to-toe with a fanbase who were very frustrated with what had gone before him. Like you said his record was OK, maybe too many draws, but again, given what's happened since, we'd have been better off sticking with him. His handling of fan feedback/opinion was poor, it cost him his job, and I'm sure he'll have learned from it. When Rowett took over virtually the whole club - fans, players and owners included - were under the delusion that we were a Premier League side slumming it in the Championship. He made the mistake of trying to shatter that delusion and get the club to recognise the reality of the situation and earn success rather than expect it as sme sort of divine right pissing people off along the way. Problem is that delusion still lingers and we'll only live up to or potential when everyone is pulling in the same direction and recognising that succeeding in this division is actually really hard. If Rowett is pissing himself laughing at us now for still not fully recognising we have no more right and actually less chance of promotion than Millwall I wouldn't blame him for a second. No one forced Rowett to come here. He said at the start of the season promotion was the aim and was laughing it up about the bookies’ odds being in our favour at some pre-season managers’ press conference. He was given millions to spend - £10m of which went on Tom Bloody Ince. With hindsight I think we’d be in a much better place now if we’d stuck with him, but if anything he was as guilty at buying into the big club mentality as the players, fans and board when he came here initially and a big part of his downfall was him rowing back on that a few months in after results started going wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on Jun 29, 2020 12:47:18 GMT
Absolutely it’s the fault of the managers we’ve chosen. Rowett was a horrendous mistake and summed up our owners’ lack of ambition and inability to sell what should have been an exciting project. Instead of coming down and selling ourselves as a club who had been in the Premier League for 10 years and wanted to get back up (and viewing the Championship for what it was - a league full of teams and players considerably shitter than the worst of what we’d faced the season before), in appointing Rowett we accepted Championship football and this weird notion that we should be thankful for a steady mid-table season. We accepted a bloke who was going to get our team playing like underdogs against fucking Rotherham. A bloke who constantly talked about the championship being a “tough league” and filled the team with one dimensional work horses and stripped it of the tiny amount of creativity that remained. That season was a complete failure, regardless of the fact we’ve been even worse since. The idea that we should have kept him on is ludicrous, he should never have been anywhere near the owners’ thoughts in the first place. An unambitious dinosaur of a manager. Jones was a complete clown and it was clearly too big a step up for him. He never even attempted to build a team to play the sort of football he was apparently known for. Who recruited rowett , who recruited Jones Who issued a mission statement about the mighty Stoke getting rid of losers like arnautovic to bring in winners like Jesse # ambition. Why is it, if Southampton sign a sought after player like van dijk from Celtic, they don't have to insert daft clauses in his contract allowing him to go to Liverpool for 12 million but if Stoke sign shaquiri they do, who is responsible for this stuff ? Let's face it in the world of football scholes and JC are amateurs. If there positions are bullet proof , and they may well be , this is only going to end one way . I'm no fan of Scholes but I don't think the Shaqiri/van Dijk comparison stands up. The Shaqiri clause was a relegation clause - we don't know what van Dijk's contract said about relegation because Southamptom weren't relegated. Plus Celtic to Southampton is a step up vs Inter to Stoke arguably a step down. It provides for a different bargaining position. |
|
|
|
Post by swampmongrel on Jun 29, 2020 12:52:41 GMT
Who recruited rowett , who recruited Jones Who issued a mission statement about the mighty Stoke getting rid of losers like arnautovic to bring in winners like Jesse # ambition. Why is it, if Southampton sign a sought after player like van dijk from Celtic, they don't have to insert daft clauses in his contract allowing him to go to Liverpool for 12 million but if Stoke sign shaquiri they do, who is responsible for this stuff ? Let's face it in the world of football scholes and JC are amateurs. If there positions are bullet proof , and they may well be , this is only going to end one way . I'm no fan of Scholes but I don't think the Shaqiri/van Dijk comparison stands up. The Shaqiri clause was a relegation clause - we don't know what van Dijk's contract said about relegation because Southamptom weren't relegated. Plus Celtic to Southampton is a step up vs Inter to Stoke arguably a step down. It provides for a different bargaining position. Inter to Stoke, a step down? Surely not 😮 |
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on Jun 29, 2020 15:13:03 GMT
I'm no fan of Scholes but I don't think the Shaqiri/van Dijk comparison stands up. The Shaqiri clause was a relegation clause - we don't know what van Dijk's contract said about relegation because Southamptom weren't relegated. Plus Celtic to Southampton is a step up vs Inter to Stoke arguably a step down. It provides for a different bargaining position. Inter to Stoke, a step down? Surely not 😮 I choose my words carefully. There are those in our midst who believe Ronaldo and Messi's careers to both be unfulfilled by not playing for Stoke under Pulis and when they sing 'By far the greatest team the world has ever seen" they really mean it!! |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 29, 2020 15:25:40 GMT
Saturday was.
He had the lesson vs Reading. Don't play Thompson and Sorensen in the same midfield. And we started with the pair of them.
And then who the fuck plays McClean on the right wing and thinks it's a good idea?
And then puts him at left wing back? We know he can't defend, he's thick and hasn't got the brains for it. Leave him as a left winger as it's the only position he can even attempt to do. It was so infuriating. His decisions lead to exactly what you'd know would.
|
|
|
|
Post by kjpt140v on Jul 8, 2020 12:50:29 GMT
Worst of the lot albeit a hughes signing , we sold our best player to a direct relegation rival , who then ripped us apart on our pitch in a critical game . How many times do we hear won’t be sold to a direct rival For a £23million profit.... that's the point. Er £23m profit or stay in Premier and make lots more, which would I choose? |
|
|
|
Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 8, 2020 12:59:23 GMT
It's been a combination of a few things. A weak side with a bad atmosphere and failure in leadership to pull things together. The players and management have been to blame, since MON has come in we have seen more of a leader in our manager compared to Nathan Jones who I feel didn't inspire or motivate enough.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 13:16:48 GMT
Who recruited rowett , who recruited Jones Who issued a mission statement about the mighty Stoke getting rid of losers like arnautovic to bring in winners like Jesse # ambition. Why is it, if Southampton sign a sought after player like van dijk from Celtic, they don't have to insert daft clauses in his contract allowing him to go to Liverpool for 12 million but if Stoke sign shaquiri they do, who is responsible for this stuff ? Let's face it in the world of football scholes and JC are amateurs. If there positions are bullet proof , and they may well be , this is only going to end one way . I'm no fan of Scholes but I don't think the Shaqiri/van Dijk comparison stands up. The Shaqiri clause was a relegation clause - we don't know what van Dijk's contract said about relegation because Southamptom weren't relegated. Plus Celtic to Southampton is a step up vs Inter to Stoke arguably a step down. It provides for a different bargaining position. And we tried to sign van Dijk. I think if you look back at the van Dijk to Soton thread on here the general consensus was they'd wasted money on a player from a pub league. |
|
|
|
Post by BristolMick on Jul 8, 2020 13:39:21 GMT
Not sure where the Scholes vs TP story comes from but I said at the time that it was a mistake parting with Pulis. The decline started the second he left. Absolute fucking reinvention of history one eyed hysterical knicker wetting bollox. The best 3 years football most of us have ever witnessed from SCFC commenced the second TFP left. BM |
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Jul 8, 2020 13:47:42 GMT
Yes, the manager runs the business and is accountable.
Having said that I doubt if anyone would have got a tune out of the mess Hughes got the club into, and certainly not Lambert, who took on a nigh impossible job. He tried to instill discipline and improve our defending but the players were just not up to it.
Rowett was given every chance with preparation time, £50m , pre-season, and chance to get some of the rotten apples out of the club. How successful you consider him depends on how you judge success. His style is like a lot of British managers, "We start with a point and we are going to defend it and hope we snatch a victory". That policy will keep you in a respectable league position, but rarely wins anything. Rowett's signings were mixed, but generally not good enough for the money paid. He messed up at Derby dropping out of a play-off position, after Stoke tried to sign him when Hughes was sacked.
Jones was also given very chance with loads of time, loads of signings, and not having to contend with the rotten apples his predecessors had to deal with. His record speaks for itself, but most tellingly, MON has come in and got a tune out of virtually the same players. Having said that we are far from safe yet.
I can't wait to see MON being given the time and money his predecessors had.
|
|
|
|
Post by Billybigbollox on Jul 8, 2020 14:04:37 GMT
Yes, the manager runs the business and is accountable. Having said that I doubt if anyone would have got a tune out of the mess Hughes got the club into, and certainly not Lambert, who took on a nigh impossible job. He tried to instill discipline and improve our defending but the players were just not up to it. Rowett was given every chance with preparation time, £50m , pre-season, and chance to get some of the rotten apples out of the club. How successful you consider him depends on how you judge success. His style is like a lot of British managers, " We start with a point and we are going to defend it and hope we snatch a victory". That policy will keep you in a respectable league position, but rarely wins anything. Rowett's signings were mixed, but generally not good enough for the money paid. He messed up at Derby dropping out of a play-off position, after Stoke tried to sign him when Hughes was sacked. Jones was also given very chance with loads of time, loads of signings, and not having to contend with the rotten apples his predecessors had to deal with. His record speaks for itself, but most tellingly, MON has come in and got a tune out of virtually the same players. Having said that we are far from safe yet. I can't wait to see MON being given the time and money his predecessors had. He might get the time, because we can’t keep sacking managers, but he certainly won’t get the money. |
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 8, 2020 14:35:41 GMT
Who else chose the players, it wasn't Scoles thats for sure, he may have sorted the contracts etc but he doesn't suddenly pull names out of a hat and start signing them, just because JC and Scholes aren't liked by some/many doesn't mean it can all be lumped on them and any resposability taken from the managers. The main people at fault are Hughes and Rowett imo, both spent their budgets pretty poorly and over spent on crap whcih is why we're lumbered with the squad we have. Scholes and pulis , had an altercation ( a row if you prefer ) over what sort of players , Stoke city should be signing Scholes won ,pulis lost and it was good bye TP In the benefit of hindsight , for what that his worth , it turns out that love him or loathe him ( and he certainly divided opinion ) even TP has more idea , of the type of player Stoke city need than Scholes . I would take that line a step further than that. TP basically ran the club on behalf of PC and TS. I am just amazed they still evidently haven't cottoned onto that fact. Yes Hughes did well for a while with the structure TP put in place but low and behold it comes crashing down after the 3 good years because the discipline had seeped out of the club. And yes, love him or hate him TP established a work ethic and we had a clear identity and players arriving had no doubt what was expected of them in terms of work rate and attitude. In epic proportions the senior management have failed to instil a club philosophy. They have simply thrown money at the problem in all the wrong places when what they should have invested in is talent upstairs in the form of a seasoned director of football. We had Carto, JC's mate from school an ex leek town goalie and Arthur Daley type bottom of the rung football agent. That told me all I needed to know back in 2012 of the attitude of the club. It was jobs for the boys and they weren't taking it seriously enough. They still haven't done anything about it. So yes certain players and managers have helped create this mess but at the end of every day I can conclude with clear conscience that it is ultimately the fault of the owners for poor strategic decisions over the last 6 or 7 years. |
|
