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Post by Gob Bluth on Sept 1, 2020 19:58:24 GMT
He's also one of our top earners isn't he? I know he's been here through the good times but the club has made him a multi millionaire. He now seems to be holding us back rather, especially from an FFP point of view. At the time Stoke made him a millionaire there was a host of other clubs that would have done the same, clubs of a bigger stature than Stoke and while it's conjecture I suspect they would have made him richer too. Currently the 8th most capped Stoke player, injuries have possibly robbed him of the chance of getting into the top 2. If things turn round he has a good chance of breaking into the top 5. All guess work but I suspect many of us will have passed on before someone else breaks into the top 5. This club is plagued with many, many problems. As far as I'm concerned Ryan is ring fenced from everything. If we're looking at allocation of resources I'd start asking MoN what magical formation he's going to play that involves 5 strikers or maybe if Chester was really necessary when we have Lindsay, Batth, BMI and Collins.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2020 21:21:20 GMT
We don't know wat actually happened, do we? He took a knock and O'Neill took him off as a precaution, maybe?
A bit too early to go in full orbit mode over so little so soon.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 1, 2020 21:59:47 GMT
We don't know wat actually happened, do we? He took a knock and O'Neill took him off as a precaution, maybe? A bit too early to go in full orbit mode over so little so soon. If it was just today I'd agree but this has been going on for 2/3 years now. I hope he can get fit because he's so much better than Batth and Chester still and we need him really. But can he get fit? Can he stay fit? The recent evidence suggests it's a no. Lets hope that today was nothing serious and he can actually get fit and play a big part this season. Because we've missed him massively these last 3 years.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Sept 1, 2020 22:03:55 GMT
He is clearly struggling but we should give him as much time as he needs. However, he costs us over £2.5 million a season and good servant as he has been, he has been paid for it . At some Point a decision has to be made £2.5m a year? Factual source would help Start with our Premier League wage bill and the fact he accepted a new contract on relegation to reduce the cut to salary and it’s hard to imagine wages plus national insurance are not £2.5 million at least. That is a conservative figure compared to the web sites estimating player salaries
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Post by datguy on Sept 1, 2020 22:09:35 GMT
We don't know wat actually happened, do we? He took a knock and O'Neill took him off as a precaution, maybe? A bit too early to go in full orbit mode over so little so soon. If it was just today I'd agree but this has been going on for 2/3 years now. I hope he can get fit because he's so much better than Batth and Chester still and we need him really. But can he get fit? Can he stay fit? The recent evidence suggests it's a no. Lets hope that today was nothing serious and he can actually get fit and play a big part this season. Because we've missed him massively these last 3 years. Ideally you'd have Shawcross and Collins next to eachother. Experience with potential. It's unfortunate because I think they would genuinely compliment eachother. Collins has got a lot to learn yet but a fully fit Ryan is probably the best player Collins could hope to partner at his age whether he was at Stoke or not. And it's a much better prospect than Batth and Chester. Evidence is though - we'll never see Ryan and Collins next to eachother.
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Post by datguy on Sept 1, 2020 22:12:47 GMT
£2.5m a year? Factual source would help Start with our Premier League wage bill and the fact he accepted a new contract on relegation to reduce the cut to salary and it’s hard to imagine wages plus national insurance are not £2.5 million at least. That is a conservative figure compared to the web sites estimating player salaries Is that accurate? Thought he signed a new contract at the start of the 2017-18 season which you'd assume would make him liable for a relegation wage reduction? He's probably one of the higher earners but £2.5m doesn't seem right.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 1, 2020 22:14:01 GMT
If it was just today I'd agree but this has been going on for 2/3 years now. I hope he can get fit because he's so much better than Batth and Chester still and we need him really. But can he get fit? Can he stay fit? The recent evidence suggests it's a no. Lets hope that today was nothing serious and he can actually get fit and play a big part this season. Because we've missed him massively these last 3 years. Ideally you'd have Shawcross and Collins next to eachother. Experience with potential. It's unfortunate because I think they would genuinely compliment eachother. Collins has got a lot to learn yet but a fully fit Ryan is probably the best player Collins could hope to partner at his age whether he was at Stoke or not. And it's a much better prospect than Batth and Chester. Evidence is though - we'll never see Ryan and Collins next to eachother. Definitely. And it's a massive shame that it looks as far away as it ever did.
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Post by Sfance on Sept 1, 2020 23:08:46 GMT
Shawcross was finished a couple of seasons ago. Long since time to move on.
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 1, 2020 23:27:27 GMT
He's also one of our top earners isn't he? I know he's been here through the good times but the club has made him a multi millionaire. He now seems to be holding us back rather, especially from an FFP point of view. At the time Stoke made him a millionaire there was a host of other clubs that would have done the same, clubs of a bigger stature than Stoke and while it's conjecture I suspect they would have made him richer too. Currently the 8th most capped Stoke player, injuries have possibly robbed him of the chance of getting into the top 2. If things turn round he has a good chance of breaking into the top 5. All guess work but I suspect many of us will have passed on before someone else breaks into the top 5. This club is plagued with many, many problems. As far as I'm concerned Ryan is ring fenced from everything. A lot of assumptions there. I don't recall anyone coming in for him - who knows whether he would have gone if they had. As for ring fencing him, that's putting the player before the good of the club. Just because someone has played for years isn't a reason to keep him on.
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Post by stokie1 on Sept 2, 2020 1:00:17 GMT
Shawcross was finished a couple of seasons ago. Long since time to move on. Let’s not write him off. He is a club legend and hopefully can lead us back to the Prem. That would be fitting. He has had a tough run with injuries but all fans need to give him their backing and hope he returns to the form of 5 years ago when he was one of the best around. Club captain. Must be hurting him so much to not be able to play regularly. He needs our support more than ever!
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Post by Sfance on Sept 2, 2020 1:05:14 GMT
People will be wanting to resurrect Dennis Smith next! How about Johnny McCue?
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Post by bolders on Sept 2, 2020 4:59:14 GMT
Start with our Premier League wage bill and the fact he accepted a new contract on relegation to reduce the cut to salary and it’s hard to imagine wages plus national insurance are not £2.5 million at least. That is a conservative figure compared to the web sites estimating player salaries Is that accurate? Thought he signed a new contract at the start of the 2017-18 season which you'd assume would make him liable for a relegation wage reduction? He's probably one of the higher earners but £2.5m doesn't seem right. I’ve seen it saying he is on £55k a week so that would make it £2.8M a year. If he took the 25% drop in wages that would make it £2.1M a year
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Post by StaffordPotter on Sept 2, 2020 5:49:35 GMT
Hate to say it, but I doubt we'll see him complete a full season for us again.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 8:17:04 GMT
We don't know wat actually happened, do we? He took a knock and O'Neill took him off as a precaution, maybe? A bit too early to go in full orbit mode over so little so soon. If it was just today I'd agree but this has been going on for 2/3 years now. I hope he can get fit because he's so much better than Batth and Chester still and we need him really. But can he get fit? Can he stay fit? The recent evidence suggests it's a no. Lets hope that today was nothing serious and he can actually get fit and play a big part this season. Because we've missed him massively these last 3 years. It's going to go on for the remainder of his career but he can still play a part. Michael O'Neill is no fool; if he sees/is told that Ryan is crocked he won't select him, but like all the six managers he recognises the importance he still has.
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 2, 2020 8:37:24 GMT
The one player we don't push out of the door(and with their reputation I suspect the Coates family would agree) is Ryan. Those people advocating this should give their heads, a wobble and remember the loyalty he has shown the club. One of my happpiest transfer window memories is of his son announcing on Radio Stoke that his dad would be staying at Stoke when Pulis got him to sign a new contract. I'm sure he had other offers on the table then. As he probably also had after we were relegated - yes he didn't play much that season but our record when he did was amazing I seem to remember. Fans moan when players don't show loyalty but would get rid of a player who I have no doubt sacrificed his international carreer to stay at Stoke. A player coach type role would be a fitting end to his career here. However much he is costing us he has more than repaid it over the years. It beggars belief that Huth seems to have cult status on here and seems to be credited for Shawcross's success despite the fact that he wanted the move rather than staying and fighting for his place. Remember our 3 ninth place finishes were with Ryan but not Huth. And some seem not to give Shawcross any credit for their partnership. I always thought Ryan was the better player.
Got that one off my chest!!
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Post by potterpaul on Sept 2, 2020 8:56:58 GMT
Give Clucas the armband.
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Post by superalexneil on Sept 2, 2020 9:01:00 GMT
After the shhh’ing to us? Naaa, Good player but not someone id like to be captain IMO.
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Post by potterpaul on Sept 2, 2020 9:05:44 GMT
After the shhh’ing to us? Naaa, Good player but not someone id like to be captain IMO. I'd agree 9 times outta 10 with that but for some reason I felt it changed him post lock down after Butland sustained that neck injury.
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Post by musik on Sept 2, 2020 13:45:58 GMT
Is that accurate? Thought he signed a new contract at the start of the 2017-18 season which you'd assume would make him liable for a relegation wage reduction? He's probably one of the higher earners but £2.5m doesn't seem right. I’ve seen it saying he is on £55k a week so that would make it £2.8M a year. If he took the 25% drop in wages that would make it £2.1M a year No matter what, that's about the salary of 100 ordinary workers or officials.
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Post by Gob Bluth on Sept 3, 2020 6:45:00 GMT
At the time Stoke made him a millionaire there was a host of other clubs that would have done the same, clubs of a bigger stature than Stoke and while it's conjecture I suspect they would have made him richer too. Currently the 8th most capped Stoke player, injuries have possibly robbed him of the chance of getting into the top 2. If things turn round he has a good chance of breaking into the top 5. All guess work but I suspect many of us will have passed on before someone else breaks into the top 5. This club is plagued with many, many problems. As far as I'm concerned Ryan is ring fenced from everything. A lot of assumptions there. I don't recall anyone coming in for him - who knows whether he would have gone if they had. As for ring fencing him, that's putting the player before the good of the club. Just because someone has played for years isn't a reason to keep him on. Agreed on the assumptions. It is putting a player before the club. I think the view to somehow recoup his wages is a little mercenary. The same thing we have a problem with for players like N’Diaye. Obviously the question can come in where do you draw the line? My answer would be Ryan is on the side where he gets looked after.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 7:37:47 GMT
After the shhh’ing to us? Naaa, Good player but not someone id like to be captain IMO. I'd agree 9 times outta 10 with that but for some reason I felt it changed him post lock down after Butland sustained that neck injury. We already had a second captain, Allen, who cupped his ears to the fans. It'd be better to give it to someone who's a role model type, but Ryan and Jack apart, do we have any one who'd fit the bill and is a regular? Collins is a future captain, was a captain in the academy and had a couple of games with the band under Jones. He's a natural fit but under O'Neill still down the picking order.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 4, 2020 9:01:04 GMT
I'd agree 9 times outta 10 with that but for some reason I felt it changed him post lock down after Butland sustained that neck injury. We already had a second captain, Allen, who cupped his ears to the fans. It'd be better to give it to someone who's a role model type, but Ryan and Jack apart, do we have any one who'd fit the bill and is a regular? Collins is a future captain, was a captain in the academy and had a couple of games with the band under Jones. He's a natural fit but under O'Neill still down the picking order. Mikel has shedloads of experience as captain. If he can still cut the mustard and start the majority of games I'd have no problem with him as captain if/when Shawcross isn't on the pitch.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 4, 2020 9:09:25 GMT
We already had a second captain, Allen, who cupped his ears to the fans. It'd be better to give it to someone who's a role model type, but Ryan and Jack apart, do we have any one who'd fit the bill and is a regular? Collins is a future captain, was a captain in the academy and had a couple of games with the band under Jones. He's a natural fit but under O'Neill still down the picking order. Mikel has sheloads of experience as captain. If he can still cut the mustard and start the majority of games I'd have no problem with him as captain if/when Shawcross isn't on the pitch. Spot on Mikel strikes me as a person who would not tolerate anyone not pulling there weight and certainly doesn't look like someone not to say anything
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 4, 2020 9:41:29 GMT
Mikel has sheloads of experience as captain. If he can still cut the mustard and start the majority of games I'd have no problem with him as captain if/when Shawcross isn't on the pitch. Spot on Mikel strikes me as a person who would not tolerate anyone not pulling there weight and certainly doesn't look like someone not to say anything Depends what he's saying I guess. He said a lot of words in the interview when he joined but he didn't actually say anything of any substance.
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 4, 2020 9:47:41 GMT
Spot on Mikel strikes me as a person who would not tolerate anyone not pulling there weight and certainly doesn't look like someone not to say anything Depends what he's saying I guess. He said a lot of words in the interview when he joined but he didn't actually say anything of any substance. I found it revealing that when Ryan got injured v Leeds he gave the armband to Mikel. Yes I know a lot of senior players weren't playing but Butland has captained us several times and we also knew Mikel wouldn't play the full match. After only two weeks at the club that says a lot about how he has conducted himself in that time. I liked how in his interview he said he wanted to help the younger players.
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obhstokie
Academy Starlet
Vis Unita Fortior
Posts: 230
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Post by obhstokie on Sept 4, 2020 9:48:32 GMT
It's not looking good for Ryan is it, i think this has to be his last season with us & i can't see another club taking the risk of signing him. Call it a day, get some coaching badges & have your testimonial when everyone can come back to the ground
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 4, 2020 9:58:05 GMT
No mater what happens he won't be going anywhere else, he'll finish his career here.
The question is how long it'll take before it sinks in that he's finished as a player.
I'd be very surprise if he didn't end up on the coaching team here.
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Post by lordb on Sept 4, 2020 9:59:41 GMT
Spot on Mikel strikes me as a person who would not tolerate anyone not pulling there weight and certainly doesn't look like someone not to say anything Depends what he's saying I guess. He said a lot of words in the interview when he joined but he didn't actually say anything of any substance. No but he exuded a calm winning control He's played at the top, all the players will respect that
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Post by azzascfc on Sept 4, 2020 10:17:56 GMT
Yes served us well , but hasn’t been decent for years now get rid
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 4, 2020 10:33:49 GMT
I feel he should be tied up to the club in some way, but I sort of feel it's wrong he is among the best paid players at the club with almost zero contribution for 2 years now. I actually feel we can't afford it because of FFP, unless the owners could pay him whatever they wanted for me, but now it's holding us back I think. He has been a fantastic servant to us, but we won't give him another contract mainly as a player, will we? Because of FFP we could ideally renegotiate his contract for another 3 years where he could play if possible, but if not be part of the youth set up or something. Then we can spread his wages over more years with some addition of course, but still this would be in our favour because of FFP.
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