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Post by nott1 on Aug 8, 2020 10:32:27 GMT
You can see why Rowett went big on him. Apart from that Huddersfield season in the Prem, he looked like as sure a thing for top Championship production that you could get. All our managers come in and think they can show him a bit of love and get him back to his Derby and Blackpool form. Derby fans are a pretty unforgiving bunch, like us, and they see him totally differently I think MON has finally given up. He's still only 28, hasn't had any injury problems. But it's just not happening. Very frustrating all 'round www.transfermarkt.com/tom-ince/detaillierteleistungsdaten/spieler/15736811-12 33 games 6 goals 7 assists 12-13 44 games 18 goals 14 assists 13-14 23 games 7 goals 6 assists 14-15 18 games 11 goals 2 assists 15-16 42 games 12 goals 7 assists 16-17 45 games 14 goals 8 assists 18-19 38 games 6 goals 8 assists 19-20 38 games 3 goals 2 assists I don't get any injury problems doing feck all either!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2020 21:29:55 GMT
So just to clarify, him and Afobe weren't goal machines and worth every penny to get us back up and I wasn't just plain wrong.
Never darken the doorstep again Tom.
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Post by dioufsboots on Aug 8, 2020 22:40:50 GMT
Could see him back at derby
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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 9, 2020 2:09:54 GMT
His shooting has become a bit of a long range horror show. Eight of his nine goals have come from inside the box, but he can't resist attempting a worldie. View AttachmentHe also seems to hate his right foot?
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Post by tachyon on Aug 9, 2020 7:51:02 GMT
He also seems to hate his right foot?[/quote] 88% of shots at goal have been with his left. The *average* distance from the centre of the goal to his shot location is an eye watering 23 yards. That's the antithesis of the modern, integrated approach to creating chances. He shouldn't be allowed to squander pitch position by taking hopeful pops at goal. In a low scoring sport, the trade off between taking lots of low probability attempts (Ince) & working the ball into better positions to try to create fewer, but better chances favours the latter.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 9, 2020 9:05:10 GMT
He also seems to hate his right foot? 88% of shots at goal have been with his left. The *average* distance from the centre of the goal to his shot location is an eye watering 23 yards. That's the antithesis of the modern, integrated approach to creating chances. He shouldn't be allowed to squander pitch position by taking hopeful pops at goal. In a low scoring sport, the trade off between taking lots of low probability attempts (Ince) & working the ball into better positions to try to create fewer, but better chances favours the latter.[/quote] I'm glad you were not giving advice to Charlie Adam! I accept that his long range goals were few and far between (so to that extent you have made your point) but I loved those long range goals which went in - made my day when they happened!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 9, 2020 10:54:30 GMT
Ince taking more long shots isn’t that surprising really and kind of systematic of how he plays and why it’s gone wrong for him.
His desire to get in the box isn’t there.
No issue with him using left foot mainly. His job is to cut in and shoot with it. If you don’t want him doing that then you don’t play a winger like him.
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Tom Ince?
Aug 9, 2020 11:09:14 GMT
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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 9, 2020 11:09:14 GMT
Ince taking more long shots isn’t that surprising really and kind of systematic of how he plays and why it’s gone wrong for him. His desire to get in the box isn’t there. No issue with him using left foot mainly. His job is to cut in and shoot with it. If you don’t want him doing that then you don’t play a winger like him. I initially thought that about his shooting, but when you look at the map, he finds himself in similar positions on the left hand side of the box almost as often as on the right hand side. The only difference is that he never shoots on that side. I'm not sure if that's a criticism or just an observation!
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Post by dioufsboots on Aug 9, 2020 12:17:28 GMT
Would the wages saved off ince if we could get rid cover both jones and boyles wages? as we would still need 2 wingers tbh unless the plan is to use campbell/afobe as wide men
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Tom Ince?
Aug 9, 2020 12:23:42 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 9, 2020 12:23:42 GMT
Ince taking more long shots isn’t that surprising really and kind of systematic of how he plays and why it’s gone wrong for him. His desire to get in the box isn’t there. No issue with him using left foot mainly. His job is to cut in and shoot with it. If you don’t want him doing that then you don’t play a winger like him. I initially thought that about his shooting, but when you look at the map, he finds himself in similar positions on the left hand side of the box almost as often as on the right hand side. The only difference is that he never shoots on that side. I'm not sure if that's a criticism or just an observation! I think it’s poor from any footballer not wanting to use their other foot tbh. Look at Adam, McClean and Campbell. All scared of doing it and it’s piss poor. It’s something that Campbell seems to trying more but still not enough. There’s not even a basic competency there with them as well when they do use it.
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Post by ParaPsych on Aug 9, 2020 12:34:49 GMT
I initially thought that about his shooting, but when you look at the map, he finds himself in similar positions on the left hand side of the box almost as often as on the right hand side. The only difference is that he never shoots on that side. I'm not sure if that's a criticism or just an observation! I think it’s poor from any footballer not wanting to use their other foot tbh. Look at Adam, McClean and Campbell. All scared of doing it and it’s piss poor. It’s something that Campbell seems to trying more but still not enough. There’s not even a basic competency there with them as well when they do use it. So why is it mainly the left footed players who get grief for this? The very vast majority of right footed player just use their left foot for standing on and it hardly gets a comment.
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Tom Ince?
Aug 9, 2020 12:39:05 GMT
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Post by mattythestokie on Aug 9, 2020 12:39:05 GMT
He’s a confidence players and unless he has a manager which is 100% behind him and supports him, he’s better off leaving.
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Tom Ince?
Aug 9, 2020 14:43:47 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 9, 2020 14:43:47 GMT
I think it’s poor from any footballer not wanting to use their other foot tbh. Look at Adam, McClean and Campbell. All scared of doing it and it’s piss poor. It’s something that Campbell seems to trying more but still not enough. There’s not even a basic competency there with them as well when they do use it. So why is it mainly the left footed players who get grief for this? The very vast majority of right footed player just use their left foot for standing on and it hardly gets a comment. Not sure. They seem to be so one footed generally.
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 9, 2020 14:46:36 GMT
I've never seen a better footballer than Diego Maradona at his prime, but he hardly used his right foot at all!
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 9, 2020 15:17:52 GMT
I've never seen a better footballer than Diego Maradona at his prime, but he hardly used his right foot at all! Yes but he made up for that by having a wand of a left hand😏
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Post by tachyon on Aug 9, 2020 17:34:40 GMT
I'm glad you were not giving advice to Charlie Adam! I accept that his long range goals were few and far between (so to that extent you have made your point) but I loved those long range goals which went in - made my day when they happened! Charlie breaks all xG models because when he took shots from 60 yards he either scored or hit the bar. No one else ever made that risk/reward choice. Had to filter Asmir out as well!
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Tom Ince?
Aug 9, 2020 17:36:28 GMT
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Post by lordb on Aug 9, 2020 17:36:28 GMT
Would the wages saved off ince if we could get rid cover both jones and boyles wages? as we would still need 2 wingers tbh unless the plan is to use campbell/afobe as wide men Campbell and or Afobe wide might well be in his thinking
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Tom Ince?
Aug 9, 2020 17:41:41 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 9, 2020 17:41:41 GMT
Would the wages saved off ince if we could get rid cover both jones and boyles wages? as we would still need 2 wingers tbh unless the plan is to use campbell/afobe as wide men Campbell and or Afobe wide might well be in his thinking There’s no way Afobe will be played wide, he’s an out and out striker. MON has talked about keeping Campbell wide but I just wish we could get a decent wide right forward and fuck Tom Wince off.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2020 17:42:32 GMT
Each time this thread hits the top of the page, I think, this is it, he's gone, but no!! Such a disappointment.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 9, 2020 17:43:59 GMT
The whole reason I call him "1 in 10" 1 game in 10 he appears....the remaining 9 doesnt It didn't need explaining.
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Post by tachyon on Aug 9, 2020 17:46:45 GMT
Ince taking more long shots isn’t that surprising really and kind of systematic of how he plays and why it’s gone wrong for him. His desire to get in the box isn’t there. No issue with him using left foot mainly. His job is to cut in and shoot with it. If you don’t want him doing that then you don’t play a winger like him. Agree, his options aren't there. The chances he creates for others (whether they are taken or not) are at his lowest per 90 rate for his entire Championship career. Same goes for his xG per 90, it's even lower than his PL season in 2017/18 as well. He's been a creative goal threat in the past, but there's no plan B after shooting from distance (which may not be entirely his sole fault). Most players prefer one foot over another, but left footed ones are rarer and so attract a premium. He's got that going for him. Few are truly two footed. Son, Pedro, Barkley, Townsend & Mane in the PL and Hazard, at a push. Deeney takes 96% of his shots with his right!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Aug 9, 2020 17:47:58 GMT
Would the wages saved off ince if we could get rid cover both jones and boyles wages? as we would still need 2 wingers tbh unless the plan is to use campbell/afobe as wide men Campbell and or Afobe wide might well be in his thinking Afobe wide
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Post by dioufsboots on Aug 9, 2020 18:15:46 GMT
Would the wages saved off ince if we could get rid cover both jones and boyles wages? as we would still need 2 wingers tbh unless the plan is to use campbell/afobe as wide men Campbell and or Afobe wide might well be in his thinking Could see it been tried tbh but hopefully we get one of boyle jones or similar if cambell mainly going play up top and hoping ince leaves then we probably need 2 wingers
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 9, 2020 18:24:07 GMT
I've just updated myself on recent posts on this thread, and the thought of posting something negative about Ince. But then I realised I have something in common with him; I just can't be bothered!
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Post by lordb on Aug 9, 2020 18:26:09 GMT
Campbell and or Afobe wide might well be in his thinking There’s no way Afobe will be played wide, he’s an out and out striker. MON has talked about keeping Campbell wide but I just wish we could get a decent wide right forward and fuck Tom Wince off. Not so sure about that. When he had his good spell at Wolves it in a 3 and often ended up wide If/when we play wing backs that allows two central strikers so we see Afobe then Afobe straight down the middle on his Todd is painful
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Tom Ince?
Aug 9, 2020 19:23:38 GMT
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 9, 2020 19:23:38 GMT
Anybody know the odds on ince as top scorer next season we ne mad to let him go unless it’s a financial necessity
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2020 19:43:26 GMT
You can see why Rowett went big on him. Apart from that Huddersfield season in the Prem, he looked like as sure a thing for top Championship production that you could get. All our managers come in and think they can show him a bit of love and get him back to his Derby and Blackpool form. Derby fans are a pretty unforgiving bunch, like us, and they see him totally differently I think MON has finally given up. He's still only 28, hasn't had any injury problems. But it's just not happening. Very frustrating all 'round www.transfermarkt.com/tom-ince/detaillierteleistungsdaten/spieler/15736811-12 33 games 6 goals 7 assists 12-13 44 games 18 goals 14 assists 13-14 23 games 7 goals 6 assists 14-15 18 games 11 goals 2 assists 15-16 42 games 12 goals 7 assists 16-17 45 games 14 goals 8 assists 18-19 38 games 6 goals 8 assists 19-20 38 games 3 goals 2 assists The goal at 5:40. We've never seen him do that in a Stoke shirt.
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Post by swampmongrel on Aug 9, 2020 21:16:15 GMT
I'm glad you were not giving advice to Charlie Adam! I accept that his long range goals were few and far between (so to that extent you have made your point) but I loved those long range goals which went in - made my day when they happened! Charlie breaks all xG models because when he took shots from 60 yards he either scored or hit the bar. No one else ever made that risk/reward choice. Had to filter Asmir out as well! I always liked Charlie putting in a speculative effort (especially early in a match). Of course mostly they didn’t come off but they would make the oppo keeper think twice about coming too far off his line. I always thought this could give us a slight attacking edge.
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Tom Ince?
Aug 9, 2020 22:19:31 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 9, 2020 22:19:31 GMT
Charlie breaks all xG models because when he took shots from 60 yards he either scored or hit the bar. No one else ever made that risk/reward choice. Had to filter Asmir out as well! I always liked Charlie putting in a speculative effort (especially early in a match). Of course mostly they didn’t come off but they would make the oppo keeper think twice about coming too far off his line. I always thought this could give us a slight attacking edge. Just used to wind me the fuck up like when McClean just crosses all the time without thinking. Just seems such a waste of possession.
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Post by tachyon on Aug 10, 2020 7:40:04 GMT
Just used to wind me the fuck up like when McClean just crosses all the time without thinking. Just seems such a waste of possession. McClean's our most creative player via passes & carries. He moves possession into more dangerous areas of the field. But he's also our most "wasteful". That tends to come with the role, if you're tasked with getting the ball into dangerous areas, you're going to give it away a lot, as well. TAA is Liverpool's most "wasteful" player when in possession, but he's also their most creative. Here's how the squad look for 2019/20 in risk/reward ball progression. 1 is the team baseline. So creative players are to the right of the vertical line, below average creatives are to the left (nothing wrong with that if it's not your job). Players who keep possession well are below the horizontal line and those who give it away more than average are above it. Numbers in brackets are minutes played (Bigger is more reliable). Blue, unlabelled points, are other Championship teams for reference. Creative & able to look after the ball are rare (and ours currently plays for someone else). Not creative & wasteful in possession is the worst possible combo, but you can sort of forgive keepers. Powell & (especially) Campbell are nicely creative, but also respect the need to maintain possession. Ince would do if he didn't chuck it all away with his long range shooting. Attachment Deleted
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