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Post by danceswithclams on Jun 30, 2020 11:55:18 GMT
It's everywhere. Just look at advertising for starters. The whole point is that it's unconscious so probably even futile to even try and look for it. It's only until someone points it out that you recognise it's happened/happening. It's like the Robbie Earle example with the girl crossing the street from him and the 'nudge' he sees so frequently when walking into shops. That really brought it home to me and that's why I think these examples should be shared more widely. It certainly isn't 'nit picking' as someone said earlier. On the point of advertising, how often do you see a white male with a black female partner with a Chinese kid knocking about? yet a good percentage of adverts that'll use a family of 3 do this? Too right mate. I remember the Oxo family - everyone forgets that the mum was played by Grace Jones and the youngest sibling was portrayed by a young Jackie Chan.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 30, 2020 13:38:31 GMT
On the point of advertising, how often do you see a white male with a black female partner with a Chinese kid knocking about? yet a good percentage of adverts that'll use a family of 3 do this? Literally, I can't ever recall seeing that Yeah, I'd be asking a few questions if I was the white bloke Something along the lines of "Fucking hell, have you seen the price of this bill from Mr Chang the milkman? How many yoghurts have you been buying?"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 14:09:06 GMT
On the point of advertising, how often do you see a white male with a black female partner with a Chinese kid knocking about? yet a good percentage of adverts that'll use a family of 3 do this? Too right mate. I remember the Oxo family - everyone forgets that the mum was played by Grace Jones and the youngest sibling was portrayed by a young Jackie Chan. Reminds me of the Irish fella sat next to his dying wife in hospital. She admits she was unfaithful and of of their many children isn't his. He forgives her and thinks about if it for a minute, 'Have narrowed it down to 2 ' he says. 'It's either Young Seamus or Wing Lee'
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 30, 2020 16:34:35 GMT
I’ve watched a lot of football in my time but I’ve never considered that the commentators have a racial bias. Exactly. The survey shows that it exists though. Just because you haven't noticed it doesn't mean it's not happening. Who did they survey though? That has to count for something too. This has to be gathered from a good cross section of society for it to be fair.
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Post by Orbs on Jun 30, 2020 20:44:24 GMT
Exactly. The survey shows that it exists though. Just because you haven't noticed it doesn't mean it's not happening. Who did they survey though? That has to count for something too. This has to be gathered from a good cross section of society for it to be fair. It's all in the article but I've included it for you below. The Racial Bias in Football Commentary study was based on English language live television commentary from 80 games during the 2019-20 season, split evenly between Italy's Serie A, France's Ligue 1, Spain's La Liga and the Premier League.
2,074 statements were analysed, which related to 643 unique players.I'd say that was enough.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 30, 2020 21:15:14 GMT
Who did they survey though? That has to count for something too. This has to be gathered from a good cross section of society for it to be fair. It's all in the article but I've included it for you below. The Racial Bias in Football Commentary study was based on English language live television commentary from 80 games during the 2019-20 season, split evenly between Italy's Serie A, France's Ligue 1, Spain's La Liga and the Premier League.
2,074 statements were analysed, which related to 643 unique players.I'd say that was enough. Have you got a link to it?
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Post by pipegatepotter on Jun 30, 2020 21:18:08 GMT
Load of absolute bollerx!
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Post by serpico on Jun 30, 2020 21:29:04 GMT
seems like someone at premier league HQ has finally read what BLM is actually about.
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Post by Orbs on Jun 30, 2020 21:41:01 GMT
It's all in the article but I've included it for you below. The Racial Bias in Football Commentary study was based on English language live television commentary from 80 games during the 2019-20 season, split evenly between Italy's Serie A, France's Ligue 1, Spain's La Liga and the Premier League.
2,074 statements were analysed, which related to 643 unique players.I'd say that was enough. Have you got a link to it? link
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Post by Orbs on Jun 30, 2020 21:42:17 GMT
Load of absolute bollerx! Glad to see reasoned debate and discussion is still alive and well
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Post by salopstick on Jun 30, 2020 21:44:15 GMT
seems like someone at premier league HQ has finally read what BLM is actually about. The message needs to have a slogan that isn’t the same as the far left wing organisation
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Post by foster on Jun 30, 2020 22:02:12 GMT
Have you got a link to it? linkIt's actually a really small sample size. Even smaller than when right wing Royland donates at the sperm bank. That's 20 prem games and of those games it's not all of the players.... and you can assume the same 'chosen' players have 3 to 4 comments each. So whoever picked the games could quite easily pick ones that contain pacy and powerful black players, or not. Which would easily skew the results however you want them. The results could really vary just based on the games and players you focus on.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 30, 2020 22:26:57 GMT
It's actually a really small sample size. Even smaller than when right wing Royland donates at the sperm bank. That's 20 prem games and of those games it's not all of the players.... and you can assume the same 'chosen' players have 3 to 4 comments each. So whoever picked the games could quite easily pick ones that contain pacy and powerful black players, or not. Which would easily skew the results however you want them. The results could really vary just based on the games and players you focus on. I agree and have to say where does it end? All this type of stuff takes away from the important things. Where does it end? You could turn it round and say the Caucasian players are offended because they’re classed as weedy and slow.
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Post by Gods on Jun 30, 2020 22:43:05 GMT
seems like someone at premier league HQ has finally read what BLM is actually about. They really should have stuck with their own 'Kick It Out' campaign It may not have the global profile of BLM but it was well meant and refreshingly free from the baggage that comes with BLM.
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Post by Orbs on Jun 30, 2020 23:06:59 GMT
It's actually a really small sample size. Even smaller than when right wing Royland donates at the sperm bank. That's 20 prem games and of those games it's not all of the players.... and you can assume the same 'chosen' players have 3 to 4 comments each. So whoever picked the games could quite easily pick ones that contain pacy and powerful black players, or not. Which would easily skew the results however you want them. The results could really vary just based on the games and players you focus on. I agree and have to say where does it end? All this type of stuff takes away from the important things. Where does it end? You could turn it round and say the Caucasian players are offended because they’re classed as weedy and slow. ‘Takes away from the important things’ Wow. Like racism? You think that’s not important?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 30, 2020 23:13:06 GMT
I agree and have to say where does it end? All this type of stuff takes away from the important things. Where does it end? You could turn it round and say the Caucasian players are offended because they’re classed as weedy and slow. ‘Takes away from the important things’ Wow. Like racism? You think that’s not important? Of course it is but we need to look at the serious cases. Bringing out things like this just dilutes the important cases. Ultimately it’ll end up with absolutely everything being challenged however small. As always whenever anyone challenges your opinion or Momo there’s a complete over reaction and you go down the line of “so you think racisms OK” without even replying to the point raised. With the likes of this and the monkey on the coco pops packet all it will do is push people further apart. Racism is WRONG but so is psycho analysing every discrepancy in life . All said and done how does the point re tv analtysis effect anything? As I said there are far more important racism issues that need dealing with.
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Post by Orbs on Jun 30, 2020 23:15:32 GMT
It's actually a really small sample size. Even smaller than when right wing Royland donates at the sperm bank. That's 20 prem games and of those games it's not all of the players.... and you can assume the same 'chosen' players have 3 to 4 comments each. So whoever picked the games could quite easily pick ones that contain pacy and powerful black players, or not. Which would easily skew the results however you want them. The results could really vary just based on the games and players you focus on. 80 games? 643 players? Across different leagues? In different countries? Remember no one has ‘focussed on any games’ it’s been an independent survey. For someone who admits that racism does exist you don’t half go out of your way to try and prove it doesn’t. Which one is then? Does it or doesn’t it? You can’t have it both ways.
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Post by Orbs on Jun 30, 2020 23:16:56 GMT
‘Takes away from the important things’ Wow. Like racism? You think that’s not important? Of course it is but we need to look at the serious cases. Bringing out things like this just dilutes the important cases. Wow. So some cases of racism aren’t important?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 30, 2020 23:24:33 GMT
seems like someone at premier league HQ has finally read what BLM is actually about. They really should have stuck with their own 'Kick It Out' campaign It may not have the global profile of BLM but it was well meant and refreshingly free from the baggage that comes with BLM. Well said. Kick out is universally backed and a great campaign.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 30, 2020 23:28:55 GMT
Of course it is but we need to look at the serious cases. Bringing out things like this just dilutes the important cases. Wow. So some cases of racism aren’t important? Of course it is but we need to look at the serious cases. Bringing out things like this just dilutes the important cases. Ultimately it’ll end up with absolutely everything being challenged however small. As always whenever anyone challenges your opinion or Momo there’s a complete over reaction and you go down the line of “so you think racisms OK” without even replying to the point raised. With the likes of this and the monkey on the coco pops packet all it will do is push people further apart. Racism is WRONG but so is psycho analysing every discrepancy in life . All said and done how does the point re tv analtysis effect anything? As I said there are far more important racism issues that need dealing with.
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Post by Orbs on Jun 30, 2020 23:47:05 GMT
Wow. So some cases of racism aren’t important? Of course it is but we need to look at the serious cases. Bringing out things like this just dilutes the important cases. Ultimately it’ll end up with absolutely everything being challenged however small. As always whenever anyone challenges your opinion or Momo there’s a complete over reaction and you go down the line of “so you think racisms OK” without even replying to the point raised. With the likes of this and the monkey on the coco pops packet all it will do is push people further apart. Racism is WRONG but so is psycho analysing every discrepancy in life . All said and done how does the point re tv analtysis effect anything? As I said there are far more important racism issues that need dealing with. That just doesn’t make any sense. How do you categorise serious cases? Racism is racism isn’t it? What would you define as a ‘serious case of racism?’ Surely they are all serious? It’s not really an over reaction either. You appear to think that racism is ok ‘everything is challenged however small’ is what you said as a criticism. By definition you’re saying its ok as long as it’s small. BTW I never mentioned the coco pops packet we are referring to the commentator findings from the independent study here. They have found there’s clearly an issue. As you also say ‘pyscho analysing every discrepancy in life’ is wrong. . We ought to be pyscho analysing it otherwise it will continue to exist unchallenged. You can’t pick and choose.
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Post by foster on Jul 1, 2020 4:34:54 GMT
It's actually a really small sample size. Even smaller than when right wing Royland donates at the sperm bank. That's 20 prem games and of those games it's not all of the players.... and you can assume the same 'chosen' players have 3 to 4 comments each. So whoever picked the games could quite easily pick ones that contain pacy and powerful black players, or not. Which would easily skew the results however you want them. The results could really vary just based on the games and players you focus on. 80 games? 643 players? Across different leagues? In different countries? Remember no one has ‘focussed on any games’ it’s been an independent survey. For someone who admits that racism does exist you don’t half go out of your way to try and prove it doesn’t. Which one is then? Does it or doesn’t it? You can’t have it both ways. Again.. Never claimed racism didn't exist EVER. Just disputed the validity of the report. As Cobham mentioned. You've taken the patronising self righteous route of starting to insinuate others are racist when they don't agree with your sentiments. 20 Prem games (and 20 from x3 other leagues) over an entire season is fuck all. It's not even one teams total number of games. It could be 20x Man City games in which case you have sterling getting praise for pace and Silva getting praise for creativity every match. The sample size when put into perspective is inconsequential and gives totally inconclusive results, regardless of how relevant you try to spin it.
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Post by foster on Jul 1, 2020 4:41:31 GMT
Of course it is but we need to look at the serious cases. Bringing out things like this just dilutes the important cases. Wow. So some cases of racism aren’t important? Again... Totally needless character assassination attempt, after what was a sensible post.
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Post by foster on Jul 1, 2020 4:47:59 GMT
I agree and have to say where does it end? All this type of stuff takes away from the important things. Where does it end? You could turn it round and say the Caucasian players are offended because they’re classed as weedy and slow. ‘Takes away from the important things’ Wow. Like racism? You think that’s not important? You seem to be outdoing yourself with these kind of posts recently.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 1, 2020 5:33:27 GMT
Of course it is but we need to look at the serious cases. Bringing out things like this just dilutes the important cases. Ultimately it’ll end up with absolutely everything being challenged however small. As always whenever anyone challenges your opinion or Momo there’s a complete over reaction and you go down the line of “so you think racisms OK” without even replying to the point raised. With the likes of this and the monkey on the coco pops packet all it will do is push people further apart. Racism is WRONG but so is psycho analysing every discrepancy in life . All said and done how does the point re tv analtysis effect anything? As I said there are far more important racism issues that need dealing with. That just doesn’t make any sense. How do you categorise serious cases? Racism is racism isn’t it? What would you define as a ‘serious case of racism?’ Surely they are all serious? It’s not really an over reaction either. You appear to think that racism is ok ‘everything is challenged however small’ is what you said as a criticism. By definition you’re saying its ok as long as it’s small. BTW I never mentioned the coco pops packet we are referring to the commentator findings from the independent study here. They have found there’s clearly an issue. As you also say ‘pyscho analysing every discrepancy in life’ is wrong. . We ought to be pyscho analysing it otherwise it will continue to exist unchallenged. You can’t pick and choose. So what your saying is that every time a black person is unhappy with the result of something whether it’s a job interview, bad decision in a game, advertising campaign that they can claim the decision is racialy motivated. As I said in the original post what would happen if the original issue was the other way around could they claim that was racist because more often they were deemed as weak and cumbersome. As a white person who goes to the gym could I claim to be unhappy that white people are depicted in that way. In relation to the findings how do you suggest they’re resolved the only way I see it is to have no commentry other than in highlights so that everything can be checked and vetted before going out. Commentary is a very distinctive thing and every commentator will be worried that they might say something that could offend so will keep it very simple and not giving opinion because they’ll be terrified what they say offend and they might lose their job. If this issue is addressed what’s to say that something else is raised a couple of months down the line say Burnley have less black players in there first team than any other PL team or why are there a low number of black club physios.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 1, 2020 6:22:11 GMT
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Post by Orbs on Jul 1, 2020 6:26:38 GMT
80 games? 643 players? Across different leagues? In different countries? Remember no one has ‘focussed on any games’ it’s been an independent survey. For someone who admits that racism does exist you don’t half go out of your way to try and prove it doesn’t. Which one is then? Does it or doesn’t it? You can’t have it both ways. Again.. Never claimed racism didn't exist EVER. Just disputed the validity of the report. As Cobham mentioned. You've taken the patronising self righteous route of starting to insinuate others are racist when they don't agree with your sentiments. 20 Prem games (and 20 from x3 other leagues) over an entire season is fuck all. It's not even one teams total number of games. It could be 20x Man City games in which case you have sterling getting praise for pace and Silva getting praise for creativity every match. The sample size when put into perspective is inconsequential and gives totally inconclusive results, regardless of how relevant you try to spin it. You obviously aren't reading what I've typed. It literally says 'For someone who accepts that racism does exist' It's pretty hard to discuss this if you aren't even understanding the basic of sentences and meanings. So your next bit of 'You've taken the patronising self righteous route of starting to insinuate others are racist when they don't agree with your sentiments.' is also totally inaccurate because as you can (hopefully) see now that's not what I said. It was you yesterday saying about putting words in other posters mouths - just like you've done there and 100% wrongly. Like I said you admit it exists (for clarity for you) and then constantly go out of you way to try and show that it doesn't. Your next line of: 'The sample size when put into perspective is inconsequential and gives totally inconclusive results, regardless of how relevant you try to spin it' - It was taken off the BBC website so I'm not trying to spin anything - just reading what it says in the article. Thee BBC obviously think it isn't inconsequential and gives inconclusive results otherwise they wouldn't have posted it.
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Post by Orbs on Jul 1, 2020 6:29:08 GMT
Wow. So some cases of racism aren’t important? Again... Totally needless character assassination attempt, after what was a sensible post. Nothing to do with character assassination - He said 'We need to look at the serious cases.' By definition saying that some cases of racism are more serious than others. Just asking the question.
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Post by Orbs on Jul 1, 2020 6:29:42 GMT
‘Takes away from the important things’ Wow. Like racism? You think that’s not important? You seem to be outdoing yourself with these kind of posts recently. Totally meaningless response.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 1, 2020 6:29:49 GMT
It's the standard approach, Orbs, if you don't like the findings claim that the research is biased or invalid.
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