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Post by felonious on Jun 18, 2020 5:21:12 GMT
Whilst the three part dramatisation was ok it was far more interesting at giving an understanding to the horrific effect that this event had on the community. Germ warfare material unleashed on a small provincial Wiltshire town what on earth was Putin thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2020 6:11:17 GMT
Putin clearly doesn’t care. He would have to have given the final order to go ahead knowing full well the possible consequences.
It quite alarming. We spend so much time keeping an eye on suspected terrorists and potential bomb threats ( and rightly so ) yet these two Russians waltz in and cause absolute mayhem on our shores and slip away quietly to watch the drama unfold from the safety of their own country.
It’s not like this is the first time either, they did a similar thing to Litvinenko. He died but the wider effects could have been catastrophic for the British Public and yet Putin and the Russians get away with it.
I know the Russians are targeting their own or ex spies but to do it on our soil in the manner they do seems little different to terrorism to me. I can’t understand why we seem afraid to make a stand against it.
Still, we deported a few Russian diplomats. That’ll show ‘em 😉
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 18, 2020 6:39:12 GMT
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Post by raythesailor on Jun 19, 2020 18:08:50 GMT
Have just Binge Watched it on I Player and thought it was excellent and very informative.
If anybody has not seen it , it’s a thumbs up from me. 😀⚓️
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Post by woodstein on Jun 19, 2020 21:38:20 GMT
Have just Binge Watched it on I Player and thought it was excellent and very informative. If anybody has not seen it , it’s a thumbs up from me. 😀⚓️ [br ..and its a thumbs up from him (me!)
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 20, 2020 8:09:49 GMT
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Post by butlerstbob on Jun 20, 2020 12:19:10 GMT
I thought it was quite good, a few holes to pick in it but hey, amazing how much I had forgotten about it. What a horrible way to go😔
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 20, 2020 12:22:53 GMT
I thought it was quite good, amazing how much I had forgotten about it. What a horrible way to go😔 The thing that many people forget amidst the drama, is that with the death of Dawn Sturgess this became a murder enquiry. No one is likely ever to be brought to trial.
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Post by felonious on Jun 20, 2020 12:54:48 GMT
Interesting stuff Huddy but to be fair anyone watching the three episodes would have been left in little doubt that this was an active spy given the fact that his best friend referred to him disappearing for weeks at a time. Are you suggesting that this was a British state job to discredit Russia? Was Sergei still batting for both teams? Interestingly the article casts doubt on both the Guardian and the BBC as trustworthy sources. There was another thread in the last few days suggesting that they both score highly in trustworthiness polls. Please excuse me if I've got it wrong but I think it was Redwhitenblue above who provided the link. Then there is the small matter of the Russian tourists making their pilgrimage to that major UK tourist site which of course has been a must see over the years. I'm assuming that because Putin paraded them on tv everyone will accept they were at least present at the time of the poisonings?
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Post by felonious on Jun 21, 2020 20:14:40 GMT
I thought it was quite good, amazing how much I had forgotten about it. What a horrible way to go😔 The thing that many people forget amidst the drama, is that with the death of Dawn Sturgess this became a murder enquiry. No one is likely ever to be brought to trial. It was evident during the programme that although she had her issues with alcohol she was a decent person. The actual footage of her dancing with her daughter at the end was a really touching scene.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Jun 22, 2020 2:56:12 GMT
Whilst the three part dramatisation was ok it was far more interesting at giving an understanding to the horrific effect that this event had on the community. Germ warfare material unleashed on a small provincial Wiltshire town what on earth was Putin thinking. It says a lot about Putin,(a former KGB operative,) as one of the most powerful Statesmen in the world,that he'd probably be more vexed by the apparent incompetence of the attackers,than any moral questions arising from the intended killings or exposing large numbers of innocents to potentially lethal material.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Jun 22, 2020 2:58:58 GMT
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Post by felonious on Jun 22, 2020 5:35:05 GMT
Whilst the three part dramatisation was ok it was far more interesting at giving an understanding to the horrific effect that this event had on the community. Germ warfare material unleashed on a small provincial Wiltshire town what on earth was Putin thinking. It says a lot about Putin,(a former KGB operative,) as one of the most powerful Statesmen in the world,that he'd probably be more vexed by the apparent incompetence of the attackers,than any moral questions arising from the intended killings or exposing large numbers of innocents to potentially lethal material. It's probably tempered by the fact that his operatives on here are doing their best to divert any blame
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jun 22, 2020 12:14:13 GMT
The Russians really are bastards of the highest order and don’t give a shit about their global reputation. As long ago as 1992, which was only 3 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the so called "end" to the Cold War, I was on a ship that caught them red handed dumping nuclear waste in international sea space off Murmansk in the Arctic Circle. This was on a massive scale and we had video evidence and results of testing the sea bed after they had gone. Nothing was done. At that time Putin would have been Head of External Relations within their government So would have had influence over any Soviet reaction to the event.
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Post by murphthesurf on Jun 22, 2020 14:42:38 GMT
The Russians really are bastards of the highest order and don’t give a shit about their global reputation. As long ago as 1992, which was only 3 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the so called "end" to the Cold War, I was on a ship that caught them red handed dumping nuclear waste in international sea space off Murmansk in the Arctic Circle. This was on a massive scale and we had video evidence and results of testing the sea bed after they had gone. Nothing was done. At that time Putin would have been Head of External Relations within their government So would have had influence over any Soviet reaction to the event. Bloody, hell, Lawrie, that's worse than horrendous --- sorry if this is a stupid question, but is there any way we can keep tabs and/or establish if they're still doing this? The Russians have always been a law unto themselves, though, haven't they, and doubtless none of that, or their seemingly untouchable brutality, will ever change. Hard labour / Siberia / Mysterious disappearances / Salisbury poisonings et al.
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Post by murphthesurf on Jun 22, 2020 14:49:06 GMT
It says a lot about Putin,( a former KGB operative,) as one of the most powerful Statesmen in the world,that he'd probably be more vexed by the apparent incompetence of the attackers,than any moral questions arising from the intended killings or exposing large numbers of innocents to potentially lethal material. It's probably tempered by the fact that his operatives on here are doing their best to divert any blame Ohhhhhhhh, Fel, mate……. Vlad, the Château Murph Head Ranger, has sent you a message……. 'Ты, я, суббота, 2 часа, у статуи сэра Стэна.' .......... If it 'doesn't go well' we'll all miss you, hon. xxxxxx
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Post by Dutchpeter on Jun 22, 2020 14:49:43 GMT
The Russians really are bastards of the highest order and don’t give a shit about their global reputation. As long ago as 1992, which was only 3 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the so called "end" to the Cold War, I was on a ship that caught them red handed dumping nuclear waste in international sea space off Murmansk in the Arctic Circle. This was on a massive scale and we had video evidence and results of testing the sea bed after they had gone. Nothing was done. At that time Putin would have been Head of External Relations within their government So would have had influence over any Soviet reaction to the event. I can concur with that. Pretty unscrupulous in my experience with them in the RN. The Salisbury poisonings could have been a lot, lot worse too.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jun 22, 2020 17:05:31 GMT
The Russians really are bastards of the highest order and don’t give a shit about their global reputation. As long ago as 1992, which was only 3 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the so called "end" to the Cold War, I was on a ship that caught them red handed dumping nuclear waste in international sea space off Murmansk in the Arctic Circle. This was on a massive scale and we had video evidence and results of testing the sea bed after they had gone. Nothing was done. At that time Putin would have been Head of External Relations within their government So would have had influence over any Soviet reaction to the event. Bloody, hell, Lawrie, that's worse than horrendous --- sorry if this is a stupid question, but is there any way we can keep tabs and/or establish if they're still doing this? The Russians have always been a law unto themselves, though, haven't they, and doubtless none of that, or their seemingly untouchable brutality, will ever change. Hard labour / Siberia / Mysterious disappearances / Salisbury poisonings et al. I can’t say much Murphs because of the Official Secrets that I’m still bound by. Don’t know if they are still doing this but at the time they had a huge kind of floating dock permanently stationed in the Barents Sea. Ships would come with waste and berth inside the dock and then dump their load supposedly unseen.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 22, 2020 17:25:32 GMT
As said above, the end result at Salisbury could have been very much worse than it was. I can't get my head round how the Detective Sergeant got such a big dose which nearly killed him and, before he became really ill, managed to contaminate both his own home and the Police Station and yet neither his family or colleagues got affected. That is close to miraculous. The other thing I thought was odd at the time and which still seems odd a few years later, is why the Russian agents didn't come up with a better cover story than they did when they were named and shamed. Their alleged tourist trip to visit the Cathederal spire was up with "the dog ate my homework" as a lousy excuse! I can only think that an unbelievable cover story fed to the world appealed to Putin's sense of humour!
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 24, 2020 8:50:54 GMT
As said above, the end result at Salisbury could have been very much worse than it was. I can't get my head round how the Detective Sergeant got such a big dose which nearly killed him and, before he became really ill, managed to contaminate both his own home and the Police Station and yet neither his family or colleagues got affected. That is close to miraculous. The other thing I thought was odd at the time and which still seems odd a few years later, is why the Russian agents didn't come up with a better cover story than they did when they were named and shamed. Their alleged tourist trip to visit the Cathederal spire was up with "the dog ate my homework" as a lousy excuse! I can only think that an unbelievable cover story fed to the world appealed to Putin's sense of humour! Hang on, we are not immune to this sort of failing ourselves. When a key Government advisor, Dominic Cummings, was caught out in wrong doing very publicly, the best plea for understanding that could be offered was the drive to Barnard Castle to "test his eyesight". Maybe Dominic is actually working for the Russians and was told to say that.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 24, 2020 9:07:39 GMT
As said above, the end result at Salisbury could have been very much worse than it was. I can't get my head round how the Detective Sergeant got such a big dose which nearly killed him and, before he became really ill, managed to contaminate both his own home and the Police Station and yet neither his family or colleagues got affected. That is close to miraculous. The other thing I thought was odd at the time and which still seems odd a few years later, is why the Russian agents didn't come up with a better cover story than they did when they were named and shamed. Their alleged tourist trip to visit the Cathederal spire was up with "the dog ate my homework" as a lousy excuse! I can only think that an unbelievable cover story fed to the world appealed to Putin's sense of humour! Hang on, we are not immune to this sort of failing ourselves. When a key Government advisor, Dominic Cummings, was caught out in wrong doing very publicly, the best plea for understanding that could be offered was the drive to Barnard Castle to "test his eyesight". Maybe Dominic is actually working for the Russians and was told to say that. Oh I quite agree - Putin's government is not the only one capable of imcompetence. And I am certainly not wanting to defend our current government, far from it. However the Salisbury poisoning was planned and you would expect any government to plan it better than the Russians appear to have done. The Cummings incident was a sneaky, self organised plan to circumvent the rules in the expectation of not being caught out. The Government's failing was not one of poor planning but a simple refusal to do the decent thing and reprimand (or better still sack) the culprit. You would think politicians would have worked out years ago that the cover up is often worse (in public opinion) than the offence - Watergate should have taught them that!
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 24, 2020 9:30:29 GMT
The worrying thing is that many people locally believe that the Russians feel that its "in for a penny, in for a pound." and they are still very much active in the South West, because of its concentration of secret military facilities. I work in Salisbury some weeks, and last Thursday I was in an office and someone took a phone call, and after a minute the call ended with nothing said. The recipient turned around and said "Someone named Vladimir, claimed it was a wrong number!" We all thought they were joking, but you can never be too sure. The incidents two years ago are still very much in peoples' minds.
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Post by raythesailor on Jun 24, 2020 9:43:19 GMT
The Russians really are bastards of the highest order and don’t give a shit about their global reputation. As long ago as 1992, which was only 3 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the so called "end" to the Cold War, I was on a ship that caught them red handed dumping nuclear waste in international sea space off Murmansk in the Arctic Circle. This was on a massive scale and we had video evidence and results of testing the sea bed after they had gone. Nothing was done. At that time Putin would have been Head of External Relations within their government So would have had influence over any Soviet reaction to the event. I spent some time sailing with a retired Russian Sub. Marriner . Probably the only one, of many, that I got on with. He told me that there were dozens (possibly even three figs) of mothballed nuclear submarines simply left to rot, and no way of decommissioning them. He alluded to the fact that he had radiation poisoning and drank strong liquor all day. The other advice he gave me one day when he took me aside ( there were other Russians on board) was “ Ray be careful and never trust anybody from Moscow”.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 24, 2020 9:46:47 GMT
The worrying thing is that many people locally believe that the Russians feel that its "in for a penny, in for a pound." and they are still very much active in the South West, because of its concentration of secret military facilities. I work in Salisbury some weeks, and last Thursday I was in an office and someone took a phone call, and after a minute the call ended with nothing said. The recipient turned around and said "Someone named Vladimir, claimed it was a wrong number!" We all thought they were joking, but you can never be too sure. The incidents two years ago are still very much in peoples' minds. As it happens my late uncle (my father's sister's husband) was in the RAF and retired about 35 years ago as a Wing Commander in the RAF Regiment who handle security at RAF and other MOD bases. His last posting was as deputy base commander of Porton Down near Salisbury who, of course, did the analysis of the samples which identified Novichock as the nerve agent used at Salisbury. I have often wondered if it was a coincidence that Sergei Skripal was housed just a few miles from Porton Down after his defection. If it wasn't a coincidence I wonder how many ex foreign spies have homes near by? Before he retired, my uncle gave a me a guided tour of Porton Down - absolutely amazing place. As a Customs Officer I had already signed the Official secrets Act but I still had to get clearance from my Department HQ to go on the guided tour. I think they were happy to give it given that my uncle was the deputy base commander!
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 24, 2020 10:09:20 GMT
For the British the underlying sense of humour is always there, and in Wiltshire the prevalent requirement for "secrecy" has perhaps been something of a sustained joke. During the height of the Novichok crisis in Salisbury we were told that a large specialist force of military personnel would be coming into the City to help with the decontamination programme, and we should not be shocked or concerned to see large numbers of guys in protective suits out on the streets. The joke locally at the time was that they must be wearing some sort of "stealth uniform" as nobody had seen them!
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Post by Gods on Jun 24, 2020 10:10:16 GMT
Was the program a bit over dramatic?!
Must admit I preferred the format for the Peter Falconio, Joanne Lee's thing in Australia.
It was more investigative with a lighter touch from the soap opera department!
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 24, 2020 10:40:53 GMT
Hang on, we are not immune to this sort of failing ourselves. When a key Government advisor, Dominic Cummings, was caught out in wrong doing very publicly, the best plea for understanding that could be offered was the drive to Barnard Castle to "test his eyesight". Maybe Dominic is actually working for the Russians and was told to say that. Oh I quite agree - Putin's government is not the only one capable of imcompetence. And I am certainly not wanting to defend our current government, far from it. However the Salisbury poisoning was planned and you would expect any government to plan it better than the Russians appear to have done. The Cummings incident was a sneaky, self organised plan to circumvent the rules in the expectation of not being caught out. The Government's failing was not one of poor planning but a simple refusal to do the decent thing and reprimand (or better still sack) the culprit. You would think politicians would have worked out years ago that the cover up is often worse (in public opinion) than the offence - Watergate should have taught them that! Totalitarian societies don’t have to worry about public opinion. Btw - I just finished reading Midnight at Chernobyl. It’s a superb book. It explains very well the technical and cultural factors behind that disaster. Those cultural factors being a direct consequence of the secrecy and lack of accountability that are part and parcel of totalitarian societies.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 24, 2020 11:34:28 GMT
The worrying thing is that many people locally believe that the Russians feel that its "in for a penny, in for a pound." and they are still very much active in the South West, because of its concentration of secret military facilities. I work in Salisbury some weeks, and last Thursday I was in an office and someone took a phone call, and after a minute the call ended with nothing said. The recipient turned around and said "Someone named Vladimir, claimed it was a wrong number!" We all thought they were joking, but you can never be too sure. The incidents two years ago are still very much in peoples' minds. As it happens my late uncle (my father's sister's husband) was in the RAF and retired about 35 years ago as a Wing Commander in the RAF Regiment who handle security at RAF and other MOD bases. His last posting was as deputy base commander of Porton Down near Salisbury who, of course, did the analysis of the samples which identified Novichock as the nerve agent used at Salisbury. I have often wondered if it was a coincidence that Sergei Skripal was housed just a few miles from Porton Down after his defection. If it wasn't a coincidence I wonder how many ex foreign spies have homes near by? Before he retired, my uncle gave a me a guided tour of Porton Down - absolutely amazing place. As a Customs Officer I had already signed the Official secrets Act but I still had to get clearance from my Department HQ to go on the guided tour. I think they were happy to give it given that my uncle was the deputy base commander! For those readers such as yourself, with an assumed interest in such things, there are a number of sensitive sites dotted around the Wiltshire Downs. Besides Porton Down, which in fact has "legitimised" itself nowadays, having been reborn as a diverse Science Park, housing research and development projects, we also have Boscombe Down, which is the designated home of many flight and aircraft testing programmes. MOD Boscombe Down is the tri-Service home of military aircraft Test & Evaluation and the Boscombe Down RAF Support Unit which provides administrative support to the military. It is in fact a civilian operated airfield, administered by the RAF Air Warfare Centre at RAF Waddington, which supports aircraft development. It provides an operational airfield with the longest military runway in the UK. It remains an important testing centre for experimental aircraft and has in its history been used frequently to offer facilities for "visiting" craft including the US military Blackbird and Aurora projects, so unusual sightings often occur in the area. In UFO lore several celebrated observed phenomena, such as the repeated sighting of the "Warminster Thing" in the sixties, have been attributed to testing events based on Boscombe. President Obama's Airforce one landed there a few years back when he was attending a NATO summit at Celtic Manor Club in Newport.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 24, 2020 12:50:45 GMT
As it happens my late uncle (my father's sister's husband) was in the RAF and retired about 35 years ago as a Wing Commander in the RAF Regiment who handle security at RAF and other MOD bases. His last posting was as deputy base commander of Porton Down near Salisbury who, of course, did the analysis of the samples which identified Novichock as the nerve agent used at Salisbury. I have often wondered if it was a coincidence that Sergei Skripal was housed just a few miles from Porton Down after his defection. If it wasn't a coincidence I wonder how many ex foreign spies have homes near by? Before he retired, my uncle gave a me a guided tour of Porton Down - absolutely amazing place. As a Customs Officer I had already signed the Official secrets Act but I still had to get clearance from my Department HQ to go on the guided tour. I think they were happy to give it given that my uncle was the deputy base commander! For those readers such as yourself, with an assumed interest in such things, there are a number of sensitive sites dotted around the Wiltshire Downs. Besides Porton Down, which in fact has "legitimised" itself nowadays, having been reborn as a diverse Science Park, housing research and development projects, we also have Boscombe Down, which is the designated home of many flight and aircraft testing programmes. MOD Boscombe Down is the tri-Service home of military aircraft Test & Evaluation and the Boscombe Down RAF Support Unit which provides administrative support to the military. It is in fact a civilian operated airfield, administered by the RAF Air Warfare Centre at RAF Waddington, which supports aircraft development. It provides an operational airfield with the longest military runway in the UK. It remains an important testing centre for experimental aircraft and has in its history been used frequently to offer facilities for "visiting" craft including the US military Blackbird and Aurora projects, so unusual sightings often occur in the area. In UFO lore several celebrated observed phenomena, such as the repeated sighting of the "Warminster Thing" in the sixties, have been attributed to testing events based on Boscombe. President Obama's Airforce one landed there a few years back when he was attending a NATO summit at Celtic Manor Club in Newport. I suspected that there would have been many changes in the 35 years or so since I had my guided tour. Thanks for the update!
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