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Post by somersetstokie on May 28, 2020 11:33:48 GMT
5 people emailed me yesterday about the possibility of sighting the American space rocket when it was due to "pass over the UK" last night about 10 minutes after its planned launch. Interestingly each person used the words "over the UK" in their message rather than describing us as Britain and I am now wondering since when did we stop being Britiain and become this nondescript entity that is the UK?
Am I one of a very few people who still use the term Britain, and its derivative "British" in modern parlance. This description was at one time a matter of national pride. However people have now slipped into the lazy and habitual use of term "the UK" in everyday speech. This is not even a correct and respectful full expression of the term "United Kingdom", although perhaps this is a good job as we are far from being a United Kingdom, and are actually a long way down the path to devolution.
I am proudly British, without this being at all isolationist or anti immigration. I just respect our history and our heritage. It was actually an American poet. Ogden Nash, who once wrote: "To be an Englishman is to belong to the most exclusive club there is". And I agree with him.
I just feel that we should not be in such a hurry to lose our established British identity. The descriptive term Britain is good enough for me and I will continue to use it, however many of my colleagues feel that they now inhabit this slightly inferior sounding place that they refer to almost disparagingly as The UK.
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Post by Timmypotter on May 28, 2020 11:36:18 GMT
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Post by riverman on May 28, 2020 11:44:17 GMT
We are the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The British Isles include the Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man etc. Great Britain is so called because it is the greater land mass of the British Isles and not because we are greater or any better than anyone else.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 11:51:37 GMT
5 people emailed me yesterday about the possibility of sighting the American space rocket when it was due to "pass over the UK" last night about 10 minutes after its planned launch. Interestingly each person used the words " over the UK" in their message rather than describing us as Britain and I am now wondering since when did we stop being Britiain and become this nondescript entity that is the UK? Am I one of a very few people who still use the term Britain, and its derivative "British" in modern parlance. This description was at one time a matter of national pride. However people have now slipped into the lazy and habitual use of term "the UK" in everyday speech. This is not even a correct and respectful full expression of the term "United Kingdom", although perhaps this is a good job as we are far from being a United Kingdom, and are actually a long way down the path to devolution. I am proudly British, without this being at all isolationist or anti immigration. I just respect our history and our heritage. It was actually an American poet. Ogden Nash, who once wrote: "To be an Englishman is to belong to the most exclusive club there is". And I agree with him. I just feel that we should not be in such a hurry to lose our established British identity. The descriptive term Britain is good enough for me and I will continue to use it, however many of my colleagues feel that they now inhabit this slightly inferior sounding place that they refer to almost disparagingly as The UK. Just out of interest what do you see as our established British identity specifically?
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Post by yeokel on May 28, 2020 11:54:55 GMT
5 people emailed me yesterday about the possibility of sighting the American space rocket when it was due to "pass over the UK" last night about 10 minutes after its planned launch. Interestingly each person used the words " over the UK" in their message rather than describing us as Britain and I am now wondering since when did we stop being Britiain and become this nondescript entity that is the UK? Am I one of a very few people who still use the term Britain, and its derivative "British" in modern parlance. This description was at one time a matter of national pride. However people have now slipped into the lazy and habitual use of term "the UK" in everyday speech. This is not even a correct and respectful full expression of the term "United Kingdom", although perhaps this is a good job as we are far from being a United Kingdom, and are actually a long way down the path to devolution. I am proudly British, without this being at all isolationist or anti immigration. I just respect our history and our heritage. It was actually an American poet. Ogden Nash, who once wrote: "To be an Englishman is to belong to the most exclusive club there is". And I agree with him. I just feel that we should not be in such a hurry to lose our established British identity. The descriptive term Britain is good enough for me and I will continue to use it, however many of my colleagues feel that they now inhabit this slightly inferior sounding place that they refer to almost disparagingly as The UK. I always say and think of myself as British and say I'm from Great Britain if asked. Great Britain is rarely queried but if it doesn't quite register with Johny Foreigner I say "England, I come from England". I have never known 'England' be questioned or queried. Which reminds me of a little tale I tell of when the wife and I were on holiday somewhere in Greece with her parents (she and her parents are proud Scots). At dinner one night, someone asked us where we were from and I said "England", as they said "Scotland". The questioner said "England and, eh?" to which they replied, more proudly, "SCOTLAND". The reply came back "no, I still not understand" to which my father in law said "Scotland, to the north of England". The reply came back "ah yes, England. I thought so." And that was that
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Post by somersetstokie on May 28, 2020 12:11:45 GMT
"Just out of interest what do you see as our established British identity specifically?"
Prestwich, being British is a way of life and an identity, but hopefully I am using the description in a context of nationalism and statehood. And not in a belligerent, right wing or aggressive way.
I am from an older generation that whatever the merits, or rights and wrongs of the position, was brought up to be proud to be British.
Britain was always an accepted and powerful description that was universally understood. We had The Festival of Britain in 1958, the Government's "I'm Backing Britain" campaign in the 1960's, and even Brit Pop and "Cool Britannia" in the 1990's. We have what is usually regarded as the British Army, not a UK Army
Britain is something to stand up for.
So this is why I have got used to using the descriptive term Britain, and even after 200 years, (1801 Union of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland), I would still think more readily of the title Britain than the UK.
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Post by lawrieleslie on May 28, 2020 12:14:41 GMT
The definitive answer from OSGB The United Kingdom The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (to give its full name) refers to the political union between England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The UK is a sovereign state, but the nations that make it up are also countries in their own right. From 1801 to 1922 the UK also included all of Ireland. The Channel Islands and Isle of Man are not part of the UK, but are Crown Dependencies. Great Britain Great Britain is the official collective name of of England, Scotland and Wales and their associated islands. It does not include Northern Ireland and therefore should never be used interchangeably with ‘UK’ – something you see all too often. Here at Ordnance Survey, we’re responsible for mapping Great Britain, which is why we don’t make maps of Northern Ireland. British Isles This is purely a geographical term – it refers to the islands of Great Britain and Ireland – including the Republic of Ireland – and the 5000 or so smaller islands scattered around our coasts. Remember this only refers to geography, not nationality, and while the Republic of Ireland is part of the British Isles, its people are not British – a very important distinction. I Attachment Deleted
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Post by bathstoke on May 28, 2020 12:20:48 GMT
We are the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The British Isles include the Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man etc. Great Britain is so called because it is the greater land mass of the British Isles and not because we are greater or any better than anyone else. No, it’s to differentiate us from Brittany:- After the Anglo-Saxon period, Britain was used as a historical term only. Geoffrey of Monmouth in his pseudohistorical Historia Regum Britanniae (c. 1136) refers to the island as Britannia major ("Greater Britain"), to distinguish it from Britannia minor ("Lesser Britain"), the continental region which approximates to modern Brittany, which had been settled in the fifth and sixth centuries by migrants from Britain.[32] The term Great Britain was first used officially in 1474, in the instrument drawing up the proposal for a marriage between Cecily the daughter of Edward IV of England, and James the son of James III of Scotland, which described it as "this Nobill Isle, callit Gret Britanee". It was used again in 1604, when King James VI and I styled himself "King of Great Brittaine, France and Ireland".
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 12:21:40 GMT
"Just out of interest what do you see as our established British identity specifically?" Prestwich, being British is a way of life and an identity, but hopefully I am using the description in a context of nationalism and statehood. And not in a belligerent, right wing or aggressive way.
I am from an older generation that whatever the merits, or rights and wrongs of the position, was brought up to be proud to be British. Britain was always an accepted and powerful description that was universally understood. We had The Festival of Britain in 1958, the Government's "I'm Backing Britain" campaign in the 1960's, and even Brit Pop and "Cool Britannia" in the 1990's. We have what is usually regarded as the British Army, not a UK Army Britain is something to stand up for. So this is why I have got used to using the descriptive term Britain, and even after 200 years, (1801 Union of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland), I would still think more readily of the title Britain than the UK. I wasn't suggesting that for one second fella, I was genuinely interested in your take on what it means to be British, we'll all have different opinions on it.....
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Post by somersetstokie on May 28, 2020 12:29:30 GMT
Yeh, no worries. Everybody has a different opinion on what it means to be British, and this sense of identity has been extensively examined and discussed over the decades. And I have no desire to state a case or enforce an opinion.
It just surprised me yesterday that so many people I know are so readily acceptive of the use of the word UK, when I would almost automatically use Britain in the same descriptive situation.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on May 28, 2020 13:23:07 GMT
5 people emailed me yesterday about the possibility of sighting the American space rocket when it was due to "pass over the UK" last night about 10 minutes after its planned launch. Interestingly each person used the words " over the UK" in their message rather than describing us as Britain and I am now wondering since when did we stop being Britiain and become this nondescript entity that is the UK? Am I one of a very few people who still use the term Britain, and its derivative "British" in modern parlance. This description was at one time a matter of national pride. However people have now slipped into the lazy and habitual use of term "the UK" in everyday speech. This is not even a correct and respectful full expression of the term "United Kingdom", although perhaps this is a good job as we are far from being a United Kingdom, and are actually a long way down the path to devolution. I am proudly British, without this being at all isolationist or anti immigration. I just respect our history and our heritage. It was actually an American poet. Ogden Nash, who once wrote: "To be an Englishman is to belong to the most exclusive club there is". And I agree with him. I just feel that we should not be in such a hurry to lose our established British identity. The descriptive term Britain is good enough for me and I will continue to use it, however many of my colleagues feel that they now inhabit this slightly inferior sounding place that they refer to almost disparagingly as The UK.
The UK and Britain are 2 different things.
That simple.
If you're British, then you're part of both Great Britain and the UK. Many people may describe themelves as being from the UK because they are but they're not part of Great Britain.
Last night, the rocket was supposed to be visible from the whole of the UK, not just Britain.
Pretty simple really
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Post by danceswithclams on May 28, 2020 13:27:19 GMT
It's not that great at the moment though is it?
That's why I always say that I'm from 'Farcical Hate Orifice' when questioned.
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Post by heyzeus on May 28, 2020 13:29:52 GMT
I always say I'm English, but of course you run the risk of being arrested and put in jail these days.
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Post by muggleton on May 28, 2020 13:36:30 GMT
I always say I'm English, but of course you run the risk of being arrested and put in jail these days. 😁
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Post by lordb on May 28, 2020 17:34:02 GMT
I always say I'm English, but of course you run the risk of being arrested and put in jail these days. By who? What are you talking about? See this sort of thing posted regularly. Not having a go l just understand it. Who is threating the English? I'd it them pesky Belgians again? When did Englishmen develop this paranoia?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 28, 2020 17:48:33 GMT
Think he’s trying to say patriotism is frowned upon these days. Which in the main it is
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Post by lordb on May 28, 2020 17:56:36 GMT
Think he’s trying to say patriotism is frowned upon these days. Which in the main it is I see So not English or Englishness per se.
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Post by danceswithclams on May 28, 2020 18:26:02 GMT
I always say I'm English, but of course you run the risk of being arrested and put in jail these days. By who? What are you talking about? See this sort of thing posted regularly. Not having a go l just understand it. Who is threating the English? I'd it them pesky Belgians again? When did Englishmen develop this paranoia?
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Post by somersetstokie on May 28, 2020 19:05:08 GMT
I always say I'm English, but of course you run the risk of being arrested and put in jail these days. Times have changed. I was once in Paris during some traditional left wing inspired riots and things were getting quite hot. I was inside a boulevard cafe when a riot police snatch squad came in looking for suspects to arrest. I survived by the trusted technique of flashing my BLUE British passport to show I was a British citizen. (This was before the introduction of the maroon colour Euro type passport which came in during the 1980's). A couple of police guys picked me up from my table and then had orders to put me back down again and I was left behind. So respect for the British. It used to work quite well in the old days!.
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Post by noustie on May 28, 2020 19:12:35 GMT
I always say I'm English, but of course you run the risk of being arrested and put in jail these days. Times have changed. I was once in Paris during some traditional left wing inspired riots and things were getting quite hot. I was inside a boulevard cafe when a riot police snatch squad came in looking for suspects to arrest. I survived by the trusted technique of flashing my BLUE British passport to show I was a British citizen. (This was before the introduction of the maroon colour Euro type passport which came in during the 1980's). A couple of police guys picked me up from my table and then had orders to put me back down again and I was left behind. So respect for the British. It used to work quite well in the old days!. Probably worried about BSE
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Post by deadwait on May 28, 2020 19:29:20 GMT
Oh, to be in England - Now that April's there,
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Post by heyzeus on May 28, 2020 19:32:28 GMT
Think he’s trying to say patriotism is frowned upon these days. Which in the main it is No, what I'm saying is that these days you get arrested and put in jail just for saying you're English.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 28, 2020 20:24:59 GMT
Ahh you mean Europeans look at us like we are all hooligans. Get ya 😏
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Post by heyzeus on May 28, 2020 20:29:00 GMT
No.
These days, right, if you say you're English, you get arrested and thrown in jail.
These days.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 21:31:33 GMT
We are the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The British Isles include the Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man etc. Great Britain is so called because it is the greater land mass of the British Isles and not because we are greater or any better than anyone else. Amazing how many don't get the GREAT thing. What makes Britain GREAT, we're not called GREAT for no reason etc
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 21:34:06 GMT
I always say I'm English, but of course you run the risk of being arrested and put in jail these days. By who? What are you talking about? See this sort of thing posted regularly. Not having a go l just understand it. Who is threating the English? I'd it them pesky Belgians again? When did Englishmen develop this paranoia?
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 21:38:30 GMT
No. These days, right, if you say you're English, you get arrested and thrown in jail. These days. No you don't
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 21:43:15 GMT
No. These days, right, if you say you're English, you get arrested and thrown in jail. These days. No you don't Yes but if you cross out British on an official form and write "English" they will send it back......
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 21:47:12 GMT
Yes but if you cross out British on an official form and write "English" they will send it back...... Why would you cross it out? You have British citizenship not English. No such thing as an English passport for instance.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 21:57:31 GMT
Yes but if you cross out British on an official form and write "English" they will send it back...... Why would you cross it out? You have British citizenship not English. No such thing as an English passport for instance.
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