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Post by PotteringThrough on Jun 5, 2020 20:24:08 GMT
Gazza was a genius.
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Gazza
Jun 5, 2020 20:44:14 GMT
Post by wrighter on Jun 5, 2020 20:44:14 GMT
Remember a video on Stoke where the interviewer asks Jimmy Greenhoff about Huddy & Gascoigne
He said, no comparison, Gascoigne was a clown, Hudson was a genius [ or words pretty similar]
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Post by markby on Jun 6, 2020 13:36:01 GMT
Ah right, so you weren't impressed. I guess Lineker, who told this story admiringly as a testament to Gazza's football brain and technique, hasn't your acuity and understanding either.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but what he was talking about ain’t rocket science. Play the ball up to a striker’s feet he looks to lay the ball off, ideally to the player who made the pass in the first place. Playing a ball into space behind the striker invites the forward to go forward. About as basic as football gets. There are any number of ways to "play a ball to a striker's feet". You can hit it first time, or delay. Hidden/reverse pass, or open. To his feet with his back to play, or directly facing play, or turning. Played with pace, or slow enough to allow easy control. Given to him when he's in the penalty area, or at distance. With a defender close in, or in space. With another teammate in attendance or isolated. Against a defence which uses zonal marking or man-on-man.
A player like Gazza can compute all the different options in a fraction and select one. And his preferred option was the one which gave him the best chance of getting the ball straight back again. Which Lineker himself understood, and more importantly admired. Which was why he was telling the story in the first place.
So yeah, all pretty basic...
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jun 6, 2020 19:18:51 GMT
Enjoyed watching him again today with the England-Scotland 96 replay on BBC. Just good to see that goal again in the context of the whole game, rather than just the standard 10 second clip we always see nowadays.
Obviously, then had to re-watch the subsequent England-Holland game, and spent most of the game ignoring Gazza and just being totally confused by how fucking young Hoekstra looked!
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Gazza
Jun 7, 2020 6:47:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by sheds1862 on Jun 7, 2020 6:47:02 GMT
Remember a video on Stoke where the interviewer asks Jimmy Greenhoff about Huddy & Gascoigne He said, no comparison, Gascoigne was a clown, Hudson was a genius [ or words pretty similar] Did Greenhoff ever play with Gascoigne or just read The Sun ? Gascoigne was a pure genius, the stuff he did against Holland in the 4-1 was pure filth at times. It's a rather strange question in a way as Hudson was no Mother Theresa.
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Gazza
Jun 7, 2020 7:05:02 GMT
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Post by werrington on Jun 7, 2020 7:05:02 GMT
He’s clearly struggled with mental health issues from a very early age. Parts of that documentary are hard to watch. Imagine having something traumatic like that happen so young, then being thrust into the limelight as a kid and all the challenges that brings. People trying to take advantage, hangers-on, sudden wealth etc. Nobody knows how they would deal with his life if they were in his shoes. It’s easy for us all to judge him isn’t it. When Gascoigne talks about football he demonstrates he has good insight. Rooney similarly gets labelled as an idiot, other examples too. It's all part of The War Against The Working Class which sadly many ascribe too. And sadly the majority of those subscribed to it are on here
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Gazza
Jun 7, 2020 7:16:34 GMT
Post by wrighter on Jun 7, 2020 7:16:34 GMT
Remember a video on Stoke where the interviewer asks Jimmy Greenhoff about Huddy & Gascoigne He said, no comparison, Gascoigne was a clown, Hudson was a genius [ or words pretty similar] Did Greenhoff ever play with Gascoigne or just read The Sun ? Gascoigne was a pure genius, the stuff he did against Holland in the 4-1 was pure filth at times. It's a rather strange question in a way as Hudson was no Mother Theresa. Of course he never played with Gascoigne, he was just comparing the 2 [Gascoigne & Huddy] I know which of the above 2 id want in my team, and his surname starts with H
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Gazza
Jun 7, 2020 7:18:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:18:21 GMT
Did Greenhoff ever play with Gascoigne or just read The Sun ? Gascoigne was a pure genius, the stuff he did against Holland in the 4-1 was pure filth at times. It's a rather strange question in a way as Hudson was no Mother Theresa. Of course he never played with Gascoigne, he was just comparing the 2 [Gascoigne & Huddy] I know which of the above 2 id want in my team, and his surname starts with H Absolutely.
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Gazza
Jun 7, 2020 7:22:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by sheds1862 on Jun 7, 2020 7:22:42 GMT
Did Greenhoff ever play with Gascoigne or just read The Sun ? Gascoigne was a pure genius, the stuff he did against Holland in the 4-1 was pure filth at times. It's a rather strange question in a way as Hudson was no Mother Theresa. Of course he never played with Gascoigne, he was just comparing the 2 [Gascoigne & Huddy] I know which of the above 2 id want in my team, and his surname starts with H Fair enough it's all about opinion on here . Taking off my Stoke spectacles I'd certainly have Gascoigne all day. My comment about Greenhoff was tongue in cheek, I'm sure it you asked Gary Linker or David Platt the same question they would be biased towards Gascoigne.
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Gazza
Jun 7, 2020 10:45:16 GMT
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Post by hyaduck on Jun 7, 2020 10:45:16 GMT
Good player but not as consistent as some make out, would people be creaming over him the same if he didn’t score that goal against Scotland??
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Gazza
Jun 7, 2020 11:14:38 GMT
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Post by Veritas on Jun 7, 2020 11:14:38 GMT
Brilliantly creative player who was capable of the sublime, goals v Scotland & Spurs, and ridiculous, fouls in FA Cup final when he should have been sent off twice in the first few minutes!!
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Post by scfc75 on Jun 7, 2020 11:55:50 GMT
Brilliantly creative player who was capable of the sublime, goals v Scotland & Spurs, and ridiculous, fouls in FA Cup final when he should have been sent off twice in the first few minutes!! That studs in the stomach ‘challenge’ before his injury was disgraceful, how he didn’t even get a yellow is a mystery. He seemed to be hell bent on hurting somebody before he did it to himself.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 7, 2020 12:03:15 GMT
Brilliantly creative player who was capable of the sublime, goals v Scotland & Spurs, and ridiculous, fouls in FA Cup final when he should have been sent off twice in the first few minutes!! That studs in the stomach ‘challenge’ before his injury was disgraceful, how he didn’t even get a yellow is a mystery. He seemed to be hell bent on hurting somebody before he did it to himself. I vaguely remember the game as a 10 year old and even I though he looked way over excited even before the game started. I think it was something in his mentality that he couldn’t control and has obviously contributed to his downfall over the years. I genuinely don’t think he set out to hurt those players. As for how good he was I would describe him as an extremely talented footballer with unfulfilled potential. No more really. I have more respect for the likes of Beckham who made absolutely the best of his ability. Or something like that.
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Gazza
Jun 7, 2020 12:25:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by Veritas on Jun 7, 2020 12:25:27 GMT
Brilliantly creative player who was capable of the sublime, goals v Scotland & Spurs, and ridiculous, fouls in FA Cup final when he should have been sent off twice in the first few minutes!! That studs in the stomach ‘challenge’ before his injury was disgraceful, how he didn’t even get a yellow is a mystery. He seemed to be hell bent on hurting somebody before he did it to himself. The ref, I think it was Roger Giffard?, was awful even though Gazza was badly injured it should still have been a red card. Pearce scored from the resultant free kick but Spurs should have played 80 minutes with 10 men and Forest probably would have won the cup for Cloughie. If I was a Forest fans I would still be fuming, even worse than our semi final robbery by Arsenal.
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Gazza
Jun 7, 2020 12:55:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by sheds1862 on Jun 7, 2020 12:55:37 GMT
That studs in the stomach ‘challenge’ before his injury was disgraceful, how he didn’t even get a yellow is a mystery. He seemed to be hell bent on hurting somebody before he did it to himself. The ref, I think it was Roger Giffard?, was awful even though Gazza was badly injured it should still have been a red card. Pearce scored from the resultant free kick but Spurs should have played 80 minutes with 10 men and Forest probably would have won the cup for Cloughie. If I was a Forest fans I would still be fuming, even worse than our semi final robbery by Arsenal. You are correct about the challenge. I think it's one of those bizarre things in football and it still applies now in 2020 . ' it's too early for a red card ' , so get the benefit of the doubt. Always bugs me that does because a red card is a red card in the 1st minute or the 68th minute .
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Gazza
Jun 7, 2020 13:06:58 GMT
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 7, 2020 13:06:58 GMT
That studs in the stomach ‘challenge’ before his injury was disgraceful, how he didn’t even get a yellow is a mystery. He seemed to be hell bent on hurting somebody before he did it to himself. The ref, I think it was Roger Giffard?, was awful even though Gazza was badly injured it should still have been a red card. Pearce scored from the resultant free kick but Spurs should have played 80 minutes with 10 men and Forest probably would have won the cup for Cloughie. If I was a Forest fans I would still be fuming, even worse than our semi final robbery by Arsenal. Roger Milford 😉 So much of the build up was understandably centred on Gascoigne. I reckon he was just wired and out of control. Ref was perhaps afraid of a backlash if he'd booked him for the first. But if he'd been booked for the first maybe the second wouldn't have happened?
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 9, 2020 1:47:17 GMT
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Post by scfc75 on Jun 9, 2020 8:22:25 GMT
Cheers Joe, enjoyed that.
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Post by mickstupp on Jun 9, 2020 8:24:24 GMT
Good read. Personally (and I say this as a huge Gazza fan), I think Hoddle was 100% correct in his decision. His deranged reaction to being left out demonstrated exactly why he shouldn’t have gone.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 9, 2020 8:40:30 GMT
Good read. Personally (and I say this as a huge Gazza fan), I think Hoddle was 100% correct in his decision. His deranged reaction to being left out demonstrated exactly why he shouldn’t have gone. Agree. He was losing his mind. Imagine being in camp with him for a month
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Post by markby on Jun 9, 2020 10:59:59 GMT
Good read. Personally (and I say this as a huge Gazza fan), I think Hoddle was 100% correct in his decision. His deranged reaction to being left out demonstrated exactly why he shouldn’t have gone. I was a huge admirer of Gazza, but as a "neutral" (i.e. non-English), I'd have to agree that Hoddle's decision was the correct one.
But I'm not sure it was made for the right reason*. For Hoddle's biggest attribute as a manager was his tactical understanding, not his man management, with his biggest drawback being his ego, which demanded that he had to be the 'Main Man' in everything. I remember reading that his nickname amongst the other England players when he was a player was Chocolate ("he'd eat himself if he could").
And apparently as manager, he once did a session on set pieces with Beckham, where Beckham was struggling to master some particular free kick. But instead of taking him aside afterwards for some extra one-on-one coaching, Hoddle just finished the session by stepping up himself and pinging the perfect free kick in front of the whole squad. Which may have made him feel better, but must also have been humiliating for Beckham, who was still fairly new to the team.
So I can't help wondering whether Hoddle just didn't know how to handle a maverick like Gazza, who didn't care for reputations, formalities or deference to his managers, and so took the easy way out by omitting him?
* - Which was that he was by now "unhinged", as Joe says.
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Gazza
Jun 9, 2020 13:04:58 GMT
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Post by hyaduck on Jun 9, 2020 13:04:58 GMT
Really interesting read which reassures that Hoddle made the right decision. There’s no doubt he was a talented player but I might be in the minority who thinks he was over rated.
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Gazza
Jun 9, 2020 13:27:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by mickstupp on Jun 9, 2020 13:27:41 GMT
Really interesting read which reassures that Hoddle made the right decision. There’s no doubt he was a talented player but I might be in the minority who thinks he was over rated. He was way past his best by 1998
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Gazza
Jun 9, 2020 13:32:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by mickstupp on Jun 9, 2020 13:32:16 GMT
Good read. Personally (and I say this as a huge Gazza fan), I think Hoddle was 100% correct in his decision. His deranged reaction to being left out demonstrated exactly why he shouldn’t have gone. I was a huge admirer of Gazza, but as a "neutral" (i.e. non-English), I'd have to agree that Hoddle's decision was the correct one. But I'm not sure it was made for the right reason*. For Hoddle's biggest attribute as a manager was his tactical understanding, not his man management, with his biggest drawback being his ego, which demanded that he had to be the 'Main Man' in everything. I remember reading that his nickname amongst the other England players when he was a player was Chocolate ("he'd eat himself if he could"). And apparently as manager, he once did a session on set pieces with Beckham, where Beckham was struggling to master some particular free kick. But instead of taking him aside afterwards for some extra one-on-one coaching, Hoddle just finished the session by stepping up himself and pinging the perfect free kick in front of the whole squad. Which may have made him feel better, but must also have been humiliating for Beckham, who was still fairly new to the team. So I can't help wondering whether Hoddle just didn't know how to handle a maverick like Gazza, who didn't care for reputations, formalities or deference to his managers, and so took the easy way out by omitting him? * - Which was that he was by now "unhinged", as Joe says.
The easy option would have been to pick him surely? I’ve heard that story about Beckham before and there is no doubt Hoddle had an ego, but in the piece it claims that he guaranteed Gazza a place in his team providing he stayed fit. I’m sure he would have selected him had he been up to the required levels physically.
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Gazza
Jun 10, 2020 3:26:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by JoeinOz on Jun 10, 2020 3:26:17 GMT
I was a huge admirer of Gazza, but as a "neutral" (i.e. non-English), I'd have to agree that Hoddle's decision was the correct one. But I'm not sure it was made for the right reason*. For Hoddle's biggest attribute as a manager was his tactical understanding, not his man management, with his biggest drawback being his ego, which demanded that he had to be the 'Main Man' in everything. I remember reading that his nickname amongst the other England players when he was a player was Chocolate ("he'd eat himself if he could"). And apparently as manager, he once did a session on set pieces with Beckham, where Beckham was struggling to master some particular free kick. But instead of taking him aside afterwards for some extra one-on-one coaching, Hoddle just finished the session by stepping up himself and pinging the perfect free kick in front of the whole squad. Which may have made him feel better, but must also have been humiliating for Beckham, who was still fairly new to the team. So I can't help wondering whether Hoddle just didn't know how to handle a maverick like Gazza, who didn't care for reputations, formalities or deference to his managers, and so took the easy way out by omitting him? * - Which was that he was by now "unhinged", as Joe says.
The easy option would have been to pick him surely? I’ve heard that story about Beckham before and there is no doubt Hoddle had an ego, but in the piece it claims that he guaranteed Gazza a place in his team providing he stayed fit. I’m sure he would have selected him had he been up to the required levels physically. Picking him would've been easier in the short term as the media fuss wouldn't have happened. But in reality, when you get down to the real thing, it was easier (and correct) to send him home. It could have led to an unfit inacapable manic presence who wouldn't stop drinking. It wouldn't have ended well. Also, if it degenerated as it was increasingly likely to, Hoddle would have been absolutely hammered and called weak for taking him.
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Gazza
Jun 10, 2020 7:22:42 GMT
Post by hyaduck on Jun 10, 2020 7:22:42 GMT
The easy option would have been to pick him surely? I’ve heard that story about Beckham before and there is no doubt Hoddle had an ego, but in the piece it claims that he guaranteed Gazza a place in his team providing he stayed fit. I’m sure he would have selected him had he been up to the required levels physically. Picking him would've been easier in the short term as the media fuss wouldn't have happened. But in reality, when you get down to the real thing, it was easier (and correct) to send him home. It could have led to an unfit inacapable manic presence who wouldn't stop drinking. It wouldn't have ended well. Also, if it degenerated as it was increasingly likely to, Hoddle would have been absolutely hammered and called weak for taking him. After reading that, fair play to Hoddle for not giving into media pressure. The bloke was a liability and not the fantasy people like to be reminded of. After all, it was a World Cup not a holiday camp.
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