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Post by JoeinOz on May 17, 2020 13:14:49 GMT
I detest Southampton, but admit Le Tissier was pure class He seemed such a lazy player, but no doubting his skill, and his goals were sublime Missed 1 pen [ 46/47] Crossley saved] How many caps did he get ? Nowhere near enough imho I don’t agree with that. For all his sumptuous talent he wasn’t equipped for international football.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 14:03:56 GMT
I detest Southampton, but admit Le Tissier was pure class He seemed such a lazy player, but no doubting his skill, and his goals were sublime Missed 1 pen [ 46/47] Crossley saved] How many caps did he get ? Nowhere near enough imho I don’t agree with that. For all his sumptuous talent he wasn’t equipped for international football. My guess if he played for a Portugal or France he would have been rather than England who stifle great talent
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Post by JoeinOz on May 17, 2020 14:18:31 GMT
I don’t agree with that. For all his sumptuous talent he wasn’t equipped for international football. My guess if he played for a Portugal or France he would have been rather than England who stifle great talent It's not that he was expected to run around at 100mph making crashing tackles. It was just a case of being aware of the game when he didn't have the ball at his feet. Close opponents down and fill spaces and outnumber them. He never developed those things and at times it would have been like having 10 men on the pitch. And don't forget he got eight caps and barely made an impression. Apart from Hudson the mavericks didn't do much for England. And, contrary to popular belief, they got opportunities.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 15:37:00 GMT
My guess if he played for a Portugal or France he would have been rather than England who stifle great talent It's not that he was expected to run around at 100mph making crashing tackles. It was just a case of being aware of the game when he didn't have the ball at his feet. Close opponents down and fill spaces and outnumber them. He never developed those things and at times it would have been like having 10 men on the pitch. And don't forget he got eight caps and barely made an impression. Apart from Hudson the mavericks didn't do much for England. And, contrary to popular belief, they got opportunities. England's regimental style of play doesn't suit players who can do things out of the ordinary. Hoddle was left out for long periods at a time he would have walked into most international or club sides. I guess it's the reason the likes of Portugal and France have won things, they find a way to fit these players into their teams
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Post by lordb on May 17, 2020 15:50:01 GMT
My guess if he played for a Portugal or France he would have been rather than England who stifle great talent It's not that he was expected to run around at 100mph making crashing tackles. It was just a case of being aware of the game when he didn't have the ball at his feet. Close opponents down and fill spaces and outnumber them. He never developed those things and at times it would have been like having 10 men on the pitch. And don't forget he got eight caps and barely made an impression. Apart from Hudson the mavericks didn't do much for England. And, contrary to popular belief, they got opportunities. The 70's ones didn't The 80's ones did and most afterwards. Le Tissier got 7 caps Carlton Palmer got 18 And this whilst Gascoigne was injured
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Post by lordb on May 17, 2020 15:50:24 GMT
It's not that he was expected to run around at 100mph making crashing tackles. It was just a case of being aware of the game when he didn't have the ball at his feet. Close opponents down and fill spaces and outnumber them. He never developed those things and at times it would have been like having 10 men on the pitch. And don't forget he got eight caps and barely made an impression. Apart from Hudson the mavericks didn't do much for England. And, contrary to popular belief, they got opportunities. England's regimental style of play doesn't suit players who can do things out of the ordinary. Hoddle was left out for long periods at a time he would have walked into most international or club sides. I guess it's the reason the likes of Portugal and France have won things, they find a way to fit these players into their teams Hoddle got 50+ caps
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Post by The man from Utch on May 17, 2020 15:56:18 GMT
I don’t agree with that. For all his sumptuous talent he wasn’t equipped for international football. My guess if he played for a Portugal or France he would have been rather than England who stifle great talent I heard him on Sirius radio a few weeks back say that the season they were looking doomed to relegation, Alan Ball(i think) told the team whenever you get the ball look for Le Tissier. They did and his goals and assists kept them up.
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Post by saintquin on May 17, 2020 16:28:31 GMT
Think LeTiss was the only player to appear twice and, two different goal's. Just goes to show everything is a personal choice and no one is right or wrong on things like this!
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 17:13:54 GMT
England's regimental style of play doesn't suit players who can do things out of the ordinary. Hoddle was left out for long periods at a time he would have walked into most international or club sides. I guess it's the reason the likes of Portugal and France have won things, they find a way to fit these players into their teams Hoddle got 50+ caps But dropped when at Monaco and playing great stuff. Walcott got 50 odd caps
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 17, 2020 18:37:08 GMT
But dropped when at Monaco and playing great stuff. Walcott got 50 odd caps Who did Walcott take those caps off though?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 18:57:54 GMT
But dropped when at Monaco and playing great stuff. Walcott got 50 odd caps Who did Walcott take those caps off though? Someone who may have actually performed at that level instead of being given chance after chance
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 17, 2020 19:09:04 GMT
Who did Walcott take those caps off though? Someone who may have actually performed at that level instead of being given chance after chance Who though? He was getting caps when David Nugent got in a squad or two.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 19:18:31 GMT
Someone who may have actually performed at that level instead of being given chance after chance Who though? He was getting caps when David Nugent got in a squad or two. He was being selected and constantly under performing. Wasn't being picked on merit. Wright-Phillips was a better player at the time but playing Walcott as a right winger didn't work time and time again. The whole system didn't work
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Post by lordb on May 17, 2020 19:21:38 GMT
But dropped when at Monaco and playing great stuff. Walcott got 50 odd caps By which time Robson was playing Beardsley who was better than Hoddle in the forward areas (superb partnership with Linekar) The likes of Webb got a chance further back. No carthorse himself. I think Hoddle should have continued to play up to the emergence of Gascoigne but none the less Hoddle got plenty of opportunities.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 19:31:18 GMT
But dropped when at Monaco and playing great stuff. Walcott got 50 odd caps By which time Robson was playing Beardsley who was better than Hoddle in the forward areas (superb partnership with Linekar) The likes of Webb got a chance further back. No carthorse himself. I think Hoddle should have continued to play up to the emergence of Gascoigne but none the less Hoddle got plenty of opportunities. Hoddle, Beardsley and Lineker played in 86 didn't they together? My point was when Hoddle for me was at his best he was overlooked. Joe Cole was a player with great natural ability but he himself claimed he was told to curtail it in an England shirt. Was similar to the Laurie Cunningham conversation the other day, a player with incredible natural ability but didn't fit in. Other countries seem to find a way to include these players, England prefer steady old workhorses with perhaps explains their lack of success. Peter Reid in Mexico a prime example.
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Post by wrighter on May 17, 2020 20:34:04 GMT
I detest Southampton, but admit Le Tissier was pure class He seemed such a lazy player, but no doubting his skill, and his goals were sublime Missed 1 pen [ 46/47] Crossley saved] How many caps did he get ? Nowhere near enough imho I don’t agree with that. For all his sumptuous talent he wasn’t equipped for international football. That was the trouble with talented flair footballers and England they were never given a run of games Le Tissier, Marsh, Bowles, Hudson, Worthington etc
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 22:39:54 GMT
I don’t agree with that. For all his sumptuous talent he wasn’t equipped for international football. That was the trouble with talented flair footballers and England they were never given a run of games Le Tissier, Marsh, Bowles, Hudson, Worthington etc Absolutely. Stuffy old FA and starch collar managers love a John Gregory type or Jordan Henderson over a player who can produce a moment of magic to win a tight game.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 17, 2020 23:03:50 GMT
It's not that he was expected to run around at 100mph making crashing tackles. It was just a case of being aware of the game when he didn't have the ball at his feet. Close opponents down and fill spaces and outnumber them. He never developed those things and at times it would have been like having 10 men on the pitch. And don't forget he got eight caps and barely made an impression. Apart from Hudson the mavericks didn't do much for England. And, contrary to popular belief, they got opportunities. England's regimental style of play doesn't suit players who can do things out of the ordinary. Hoddle was left out for long periods at a time he would have walked into most international or club sides. I guess it's the reason the likes of Portugal and France have won things, they find a way to fit these players into their teams In Portugal or France they'd be brought up to play with a holistic approach. Hoddle himself is the case in point. While managing Chelsea Hoddle was infatuated with Le Tissier. He moved mountains trying to sign him. In the financial proposals they assembled Chelsea needed 5 sellouts a season just to pay for Le Tiss, Hoddle as prepared to go ahead. When he managed England he could've played Le Tissier whenever he wanted but rarely did. Because the manager has to have players he can trust. He must have realised if his team is under pressure or having to diversify the gameplan Le Tissier wasn't a player you could rely on to fulfill a role. I hasten to add Le Tissier was a bloody brilliant player and I loved watching him.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 0:23:51 GMT
England's regimental style of play doesn't suit players who can do things out of the ordinary. Hoddle was left out for long periods at a time he would have walked into most international or club sides. I guess it's the reason the likes of Portugal and France have won things, they find a way to fit these players into their teams In Portugal or France they'd be brought up to play with a holistic approach. Hoddle himself is the case in point. While managing Chelsea Hoddle was infatuated with Le Tissier. He moved mountains trying to sign him. In the financial proposals they assembled Chelsea needed 5 sellouts a season just to pay for Le Tiss, Hoddle as prepared to go ahead. When he managed England he could've played Le Tissier whenever he wanted but rarely did. Because the manager has to have players he can trust. He must have realised if his team is under pressure or having to diversify the gameplan Le Tissier wasn't a player you could rely on to fulfill a role. I hasten to add Le Tissier was a bloody brilliant player and I loved watching him. Hoddle complained that he didn't get games for England when he believed he was at his best as was seen as lazy and pretty much contradicted himself by leaving out Le Tissier. You look at a player like Scifo in the Belgian side. Not a work horse or a player you could rely on when things got intense but Belgium put defensive players in there to cater for him, what a player he was for them. Other countries adapt like I said to fit in those kind of players, England simply don't. we'll never know if he equipped for international football as his chances were too limited.
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Post by lordb on May 18, 2020 6:56:28 GMT
By which time Robson was playing Beardsley who was better than Hoddle in the forward areas (superb partnership with Linekar) The likes of Webb got a chance further back. No carthorse himself. I think Hoddle should have continued to play up to the emergence of Gascoigne but none the less Hoddle got plenty of opportunities. Hoddle, Beardsley and Lineker played in 86 didn't they together? My point was when Hoddle for me was at his best he was overlooked. Joe Cole was a player with great natural ability but he himself claimed he was told to curtail it in an England shirt. Was similar to the Laurie Cunningham conversation the other day, a player with incredible natural ability but didn't fit in. Other countries seem to find a way to include these players, England prefer steady old workhorses with perhaps explains their lack of success. Peter Reid in Mexico a prime example. Peter Reid played because Hoddle played not instead of.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 12:56:43 GMT
This guy has created his top 10 (move through his responses to the original tweet here):
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Post by JoeinOz on May 18, 2020 21:34:09 GMT
In Portugal or France they'd be brought up to play with a holistic approach. Hoddle himself is the case in point. While managing Chelsea Hoddle was infatuated with Le Tissier. He moved mountains trying to sign him. In the financial proposals they assembled Chelsea needed 5 sellouts a season just to pay for Le Tiss, Hoddle as prepared to go ahead. When he managed England he could've played Le Tissier whenever he wanted but rarely did. Because the manager has to have players he can trust. He must have realised if his team is under pressure or having to diversify the gameplan Le Tissier wasn't a player you could rely on to fulfill a role. I hasten to add Le Tissier was a bloody brilliant player and I loved watching him. Hoddle complained that he didn't get games for England when he believed he was at his best as was seen as lazy and pretty much contradicted himself by leaving out Le Tissier. You look at a player like Scifo in the Belgian side. Not a work horse or a player you could rely on when things got intense but Belgium put defensive players in there to cater for him, what a player he was for them. Other countries adapt like I said to fit in those kind of players, England simply don't. we'll never know if he equipped for international football as his chances were too limited. The fact remains when the opposition has the ball we would have been outnumbered. However great his talent is irrelevant if he hasn’t got the ball.
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