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Post by followyoudown on May 8, 2022 14:28:38 GMT
It's groundoggyoggy day again I have not called for Starmer to resign so you whole question is an irrelevant strawman that has already been answered I don't think any of them should resign over such nonsense, it is however very likely due to Starmers pious musings over a number of months he will find himself in a position he will resign. Again I said time for a new thread not to rename this thread and that was to signify that the new revelations mean its more likely than not Labour will soon have a new leader even you can surely understand this, this story will go on and on, the papers will be checking the election expenses to see if all these costs were included on the electoral expense returns, more whistleblowers will come forward there is no way back because he made such a big deal of rules not being followed even when he did exactly the same if not worse. Your brilliant theory has a slight problem apart from the garden also being used for work on a daily basis its also their actual "home" garden so I think theres a slight problem with fining people for sitting in their own garden, the other people maybe but lets be clear starmer claimed to work during and after his curry, eyewitnesses say differently and that the local mp and her aides turned up just to get pissed so based on the Sunak threshold he's fucked and it couldn't happen to a nicer guy. You talk about hypocrisy. When Johnson learned that there had been parties at Downing St he was 'furious'. He required Stratton to resign . He was then found to have been at a party himself and fined. If Starmer should resign for hypocrisy , why not Johnson? We can keep going round in circles if you like but I've not seen anything I'd class as a party with politicians actively involved except in passing, the parties were almost all civil servants and spads getting pissed in the depths of downing street offices. Starmer has spent 4 months banging on about this bringing the queen, john robinson and any other hard luck story he can find into it, he demanded a resignation for just being investigated, for supposed lying and for getting a FPN, again I've not said he should resign I've said its likely he will but honestly I don't care if he does resign.
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Post by followyoudown on May 8, 2022 14:32:52 GMT
Again for the hard of thinking show me where I have said Starmer should resign, his actions and pious hyprocrisy mean he has made his own position untenable for himself, I honestly don't care if he resigns or stays to have his own words and tweets thrown back in his face every day for months, if you ask me what I think is likely I would say its likely he will eventually resign and that will be both delicious and ridiculous as he is the man who made a story out of a non story for pure political posturing and thats why I said time for a new thread as Labour will change their leader before the tories do, so no hypocrisy thats you man Kier. You don't think Johnson has made his own position untenable or are you still clinging to the laughable façade that he didn't know the events he attended were breaking the rules? Or do you think misleading Parliament, like bullying are no longer resigning matters for Conservative ministers? Well firstly there is actually close to 0% he mislead parliament as he actually said I have been advised that the laws blah blah so he would only be misleading parliament if he wasnt advised this. If they didnt think it complied with the rules it would seem a bit stupid to brief the story to the times. The voters will decide if Boris's position is untenable I suspect how the economy performs over the next two years will decide that.
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Post by followyoudown on May 8, 2022 14:41:55 GMT
You are just making stuff up and making yourself look incredibly silly my reply is for all to see in response to particks post with the link to the article about the SNP and I dont even mention Starmer. And how many fucking times do you need me to type no one SHOULD resign that does not mean its increasingly likely Starmer will have to of course but you know thats life korma is a bitch Why will Starmer have to if he is fined, when Johnson and Sunak haven’t? The precedent set by the PM is you don’t resign, even when you lie to Parliament. Obviously Starmer should resign if he is fined, as Johnson and Sunak should have done. Your logic is odd. You say Starmer will have to resign but don’t apply that logic to Johnson and Sunak it seems. Why not? Why should the leader of the opposition have more honesty and integrity than the chancellor and the PM? Particularly when it was them who made the rules they broke. Bonus points for replying to what I actually wrote rather than what you think I wrote. Ok he won't have too resign what I meant is after banging on almost exclusively for months about what other people should be doing and passing judgement on them he's going to find it awfully hard going with the press, voters and his own party so its likely he will resign, his own mps warned him to move on weeks ago. Starmer lied to parliament recently did he resign then ? He's told a whole range of lies about beergate which seems a bit odd if hes convinced he didnt break the rules.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 8, 2022 15:07:48 GMT
Why will Starmer have to if he is fined, when Johnson and Sunak haven’t? The precedent set by the PM is you don’t resign, even when you lie to Parliament. Obviously Starmer should resign if he is fined, as Johnson and Sunak should have done. Your logic is odd. You say Starmer will have to resign but don’t apply that logic to Johnson and Sunak it seems. Why not? Why should the leader of the opposition have more honesty and integrity than the chancellor and the PM? Particularly when it was them who made the rules they broke. Bonus points for replying to what I actually wrote rather than what you think I wrote. Ok he won't have too resign what I meant is after banging on almost exclusively for months about what other people should be doing and passing judgement on them he's going to find it awfully hard going with the press, voters and his own party so its likely he will resign, his own mps warned him to move on weeks ago. Starmer lied to parliament recently did he resign then ? He's told a whole range of lies about beergate which seems a bit odd if hes convinced he didnt break the rules. When did he lie to Parliament? Not heard about that one. Johnson has told the same lie about employment stats something like 11 times. I agree that if he is fined, he should resign. Which is why he should say that now. It will then show how different he is to the tories, and then if he isn’t fined and he is exonerated then he can point to the fact that he said he would resign if he had actually broken the rules, unlike the blues.
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Post by thewonderstuff on May 8, 2022 15:56:01 GMT
You don't think Johnson has made his own position untenable or are you still clinging to the laughable façade that he didn't know the events he attended were breaking the rules? Or do you think misleading Parliament, like bullying are no longer resigning matters for Conservative ministers? Well firstly there is actually close to 0% he mislead parliament as he actually said I have been advised that the laws blah blah so he would only be misleading parliament if he wasnt advised this. If they didnt think it complied with the rules it would seem a bit stupid to brief the story to the times. The voters will decide if Boris's position is untenable I suspect how the economy performs over the next two years will decide that. Do you actually belive him?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 8, 2022 20:44:45 GMT
Why will Starmer have to if he is fined, when Johnson and Sunak haven’t? The precedent set by the PM is you don’t resign, even when you lie to Parliament. Obviously Starmer should resign if he is fined, as Johnson and Sunak should have done. Your logic is odd. You say Starmer will have to resign but don’t apply that logic to Johnson and Sunak it seems. Why not? Why should the leader of the opposition have more honesty and integrity than the chancellor and the PM? Particularly when it was them who made the rules they broke. Bonus points for replying to what I actually wrote rather than what you think I wrote. Ok he won't have too resign what I meant is after banging on almost exclusively for months about what other people should be doing and passing judgement on them he's going to find it awfully hard going with the press, voters and his own party so its likely he will resign, his own mps warned him to move on weeks ago. Starmer lied to parliament recently did he resign then ? He's told a whole range of lies about beergate which seems a bit odd if hes convinced he didnt break the rules. Whatever you think about the law at that time is irrelevant.It was the law proposed by Johnson and passed in parliament. If Starmer has broke the law, he should go. As should Johnson. Yes or no? Not a difficult question is it?
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on May 8, 2022 21:21:40 GMT
You talk about hypocrisy. When Johnson learned that there had been parties at Downing St he was 'furious'. He required Stratton to resign . He was then found to have been at a party himself and fined. If Starmer should resign for hypocrisy , why not Johnson? We can keep going round in circles if you like but I've not seen anything I'd class as a party with politicians actively involved except in passing, the parties were almost all civil servants and spads getting pissed in the depths of downing street offices. Starmer has spent 4 months banging on about this bringing the queen, john robinson and any other hard luck story he can find into it, he demanded a resignation for just being investigated, for supposed lying and for getting a FPN, again I've not said he should resign I've said its likely he will but honestly I don't care if he does resign. So no hypocrisy from Johnson then? "It goes without saying .....there will be disciplinary action for those involved"
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 8, 2022 21:23:37 GMT
We can keep going round in circles if you like but I've not seen anything I'd class as a party with politicians actively involved except in passing, the parties were almost all civil servants and spads getting pissed in the depths of downing street offices. Starmer has spent 4 months banging on about this bringing the queen, john robinson and any other hard luck story he can find into it, he demanded a resignation for just being investigated, for supposed lying and for getting a FPN, again I've not said he should resign I've said its likely he will but honestly I don't care if he does resign. So no hypocrisy from Johnson then? "It goes without saying .....there will be disciplinary action for those involved" FYD gets more pathetic by the hour.
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Post by followyoudown on May 9, 2022 6:48:33 GMT
Bonus points for replying to what I actually wrote rather than what you think I wrote. Ok he won't have too resign what I meant is after banging on almost exclusively for months about what other people should be doing and passing judgement on them he's going to find it awfully hard going with the press, voters and his own party so its likely he will resign, his own mps warned him to move on weeks ago. Starmer lied to parliament recently did he resign then ? He's told a whole range of lies about beergate which seems a bit odd if hes convinced he didnt break the rules. When did he lie to Parliament? Not heard about that one. Johnson has told the same lie about employment stats something like 11 times. I agree that if he is fined, he should resign. Which is why he should say that now. It will then show how different he is to the tories, and then if he isn’t fined and he is exonerated then he can point to the fact that he said he would resign if he had actually broken the rules, unlike the blues. With perfect Starmer like timing he had to apologise for misleading the house just before starting a motion to censure Johnson for misleading the house...... Starmer standards were Johnson should resign for just being investigated now strangely he doesn't want to apply that to himself, he and Labour also repeatedly claimed beergate had been investigatec already when actually the police just looked at the 30 second video and spoke to no one. Perhaps he could also say he appointed a team of lawyers led by a former lord chancellor to prove his innocence or maybe that doesn't make him look so good, anyway the fact he is pulling events suggests he's a goner.
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Post by followyoudown on May 9, 2022 6:51:36 GMT
We can keep going round in circles if you like but I've not seen anything I'd class as a party with politicians actively involved except in passing, the parties were almost all civil servants and spads getting pissed in the depths of downing street offices. Starmer has spent 4 months banging on about this bringing the queen, john robinson and any other hard luck story he can find into it, he demanded a resignation for just being investigated, for supposed lying and for getting a FPN, again I've not said he should resign I've said its likely he will but honestly I don't care if he does resign. So no hypocrisy from Johnson then? "It goes without saying .....there will be disciplinary action for those involved" And back around we go that depends very much on whether he considers the events he was at parties, the fact one was briefed to the Times the next day and no one gave a shit tends to point to them believing they were following the rules.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 9, 2022 7:03:32 GMT
When did he lie to Parliament? Not heard about that one. Johnson has told the same lie about employment stats something like 11 times. I agree that if he is fined, he should resign. Which is why he should say that now. It will then show how different he is to the tories, and then if he isn’t fined and he is exonerated then he can point to the fact that he said he would resign if he had actually broken the rules, unlike the blues. With perfect Starmer like timing he had to apologise for misleading the house just before starting a motion to censure Johnson for misleading the house...... Starmer standards were Johnson should resign for just being investigated now strangely he doesn't want to apply that to himself, he and Labour also repeatedly claimed beergate had been investigatec already when actually the police just looked at the 30 second video and spoke to no one. Perhaps he could also say he appointed a team of lawyers led by a former lord chancellor to prove his innocence or maybe that doesn't make him look so good, anyway the fact he is pulling events suggests he's a goner. That was Starmer saying something that had been reported about what Johnson had said to the 22, if I recall. It wasn’t a lie. He immediately corrected the record when he was told it was wrong. Johnson hasn’t done that with there being no parties in no 10 or about employment stats, or building 40 new hospitals etc Starmer is in trouble. If he is fined, he should resign. And he should tell everyone now that that is what he will do to destroy Johnson and Sunak.
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Post by partickpotter on May 9, 2022 7:22:16 GMT
With perfect Starmer like timing he had to apologise for misleading the house just before starting a motion to censure Johnson for misleading the house...... Starmer standards were Johnson should resign for just being investigated now strangely he doesn't want to apply that to himself, he and Labour also repeatedly claimed beergate had been investigatec already when actually the police just looked at the 30 second video and spoke to no one. Perhaps he could also say he appointed a team of lawyers led by a former lord chancellor to prove his innocence or maybe that doesn't make him look so good, anyway the fact he is pulling events suggests he's a goner. That was Starmer saying something that had been reported about what Johnson had said to the 22, if I recall. It wasn’t a lie. He immediately corrected the record when he was told it was wrong. Johnson hasn’t done that with there being no parties in no 10 or about employment stats, or building 40 new hospitals etc Starmer is in trouble. If he is fined, he should resign. And he should tell everyone now that that is what he will do to destroy Johnson and Sunak. I suspect the public at large are rather sick and tired of the banality of partygate and beergate. To the extent now that people don’t expect Johnson to resign over it and would be surprised if Starmer did. Which means of course, Starmer would be shooting himself in the foot if he did as you proposed. Plus, Starmer must want Johnson to remain in #10 up to the next election. So why try and force him out of office? That would be a strategic error. What Starmer needs to learn is how to exploit Johnson’s errors more effectively. He needs to accept he doesn’t need to, nor does he want to, land a knock out blow on Johnson. Extending the boxing metaphor, Starmer tried to land a big hit with partygate but left himself exposed and got hit with the beergate counter punch. He needs to exploit the cumulative effect. Play the long game in other words. Because you can be sure, Johnson will be making plenty more errors before we have the next election.
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Post by followyoudown on May 9, 2022 8:06:43 GMT
With perfect Starmer like timing he had to apologise for misleading the house just before starting a motion to censure Johnson for misleading the house...... Starmer standards were Johnson should resign for just being investigated now strangely he doesn't want to apply that to himself, he and Labour also repeatedly claimed beergate had been investigatec already when actually the police just looked at the 30 second video and spoke to no one. Perhaps he could also say he appointed a team of lawyers led by a former lord chancellor to prove his innocence or maybe that doesn't make him look so good, anyway the fact he is pulling events suggests he's a goner. That was Starmer saying something that had been reported about what Johnson had said to the 22, if I recall. It wasn’t a lie. He immediately corrected the record when he was told it was wrong. Johnson hasn’t done that with there being no parties in no 10 or about employment stats, or building 40 new hospitals etc Starmer is in trouble. If he is fined, he should resign. And he should tell everyone now that that is what he will do to destroy Johnson and Sunak. A lie is a lie, how about the constant claim that the police had investigated beergate or Angela wasn't at the party or the takeaway wasnt planned or work was done after it or he couldnt get food at the hotel or anywhere else etc etc
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 9, 2022 9:30:24 GMT
Tory lead in the next opinion poll? I'd not be surprised if that 6pt Labour lead was all but wiped out. Knighthoods all round at the Daily Mail, you'd expect
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Post by felonious on May 9, 2022 10:27:05 GMT
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Post by thewonderstuff on May 9, 2022 10:45:41 GMT
With perfect Starmer like timing he had to apologise for misleading the house just before starting a motion to censure Johnson for misleading the house...... Starmer standards were Johnson should resign for just being investigated now strangely he doesn't want to apply that to himself, he and Labour also repeatedly claimed beergate had been investigatec already when actually the police just looked at the 30 second video and spoke to no one. Perhaps he could also say he appointed a team of lawyers led by a former lord chancellor to prove his innocence or maybe that doesn't make him look so good, anyway the fact he is pulling events suggests he's a goner. Starmer is in trouble. If he is fined, he should resign. And he should tell everyone now that that is what he will do to destroy Johnson and Sunak. The miscalculation there with Johnson in particular is believing that he has a shred of human decency, honour, integrity or respect for the norms of society, his colleagues or the public at large. The fact that rules don't apply to him isn't a tabloid slur, its a maxim by which he has lived his entire adult life. You can't shame this man into resigning because he has no shame. The sad thing is, there are probably enough spineless cowards in the Conservative Parliamentary Party and enough people so addled by Brexit, Rwanda and his other culture wars to let the bastard get away with it.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 9, 2022 10:54:11 GMT
That was Starmer saying something that had been reported about what Johnson had said to the 22, if I recall. It wasn’t a lie. He immediately corrected the record when he was told it was wrong. Johnson hasn’t done that with there being no parties in no 10 or about employment stats, or building 40 new hospitals etc Starmer is in trouble. If he is fined, he should resign. And he should tell everyone now that that is what he will do to destroy Johnson and Sunak. A lie is a lie, how about the constant claim that the police had investigated beergate or Angela wasn't at the party or the takeaway wasnt planned or work was done after it or he couldnt get food at the hotel or anywhere else etc etc As Boris Johnson’s biggest fan, you of all people must know the difference between a lie and saying something you thought was the truth but turns out you were wrong about. Johnson uses the latter to excuse every “lie” he has ever told! But you are one again exposing your hypocrisy. You accuse Starmer of lying about the above and yet have never once (as far as I have seen) conceded that Johnson has lied. One rule for tories….
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on May 9, 2022 11:33:51 GMT
So no hypocrisy from Johnson then? "It goes without saying .....there will be disciplinary action for those involved" And back around we go that depends very much on whether he considers the events he was at parties, the fact one was briefed to the Times the next day and no one gave a shit tends to point to them believing they were following the rules. Yes round and round we go. It is irrelevant whether Johnson considers the events he was at as parties, he was found to have been at parties. When he promised action against those found to have been at parties it is hypocritical for him not to apply that to himself. Starmer does not consider himself to have been at a party either.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 9, 2022 11:56:52 GMT
It's really very simple.
Any MP found to have broken the law should be resigning. No ifs, no buts, no weasly words from people who can't bring themselves to see their 'own side' criticised in any way.
It used to be that breaking parliamentary standards or the ministerial code resulted in resignation, but we seem to have plumbed new depths with this parliament and this government. Even breaking the laws you put in place and supported doesn't matter.
Worrying times. It might not feel like it with an idiot like Bozo in charge, but wait until someone with more dangerous ideas fancies a go and refuses to shift regardless of what they do. We've been there before.
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Post by partickpotter on May 9, 2022 12:11:22 GMT
It's really very simple. Any MP found to have broken the law should be resigning. No ifs, no buts, no weasly words from people who can't bring themselves to see their 'own side' criticised in any way. It used to be that breaking parliamentary standards or the ministerial code resulted in resignation, but we seem to have plumbed new depths with this parliament and this government. Even breaking the laws you put in place and supported doesn't matter. Worrying times. It might not feel like it with an idiot like Bozo in charge, but wait until someone with more dangerous ideas fancies a go and refuses to shift regardless of what they do. We've been there before. When have “we” been there before?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 9, 2022 13:13:35 GMT
We as in humanity.
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Post by followyoudown on May 9, 2022 13:21:39 GMT
A lie is a lie, how about the constant claim that the police had investigated beergate or Angela wasn't at the party or the takeaway wasnt planned or work was done after it or he couldnt get food at the hotel or anywhere else etc etc As Boris Johnson’s biggest fan, you of all people must know the difference between a lie and saying something you thought was the truth but turns out you were wrong about. Johnson uses the latter to excuse every “lie” he has ever told! But you are one again exposing your hypocrisy. You accuse Starmer of lying about the above and yet have never once (as far as I have seen) conceded that Johnson has lied. One rule for tories…. And you are exposing yet again your lack of understanding of the English language, clearly the link to the snp is not the only thing you have not read, try with a dictionary and look up the definition of hypocrisy. I've never called for Starmer to resign for breaking the rules but here's the thing even if I had it still wouldn't be hypocrisy, hypocrisy would be telling someone else they should resign for being investigated nevermind being fined then when you find yourself being investigated not resigning (theres always a tweet) It seems to me you are getting being partisan or one eyed as partick likes to call it mixed up with your new favourite hypocrisy word......
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 9, 2022 13:26:27 GMT
What Johnson said was not fake news and is Starmer going to resign for his lies ? Awkward...
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Post by followyoudown on May 9, 2022 13:26:38 GMT
And back around we go that depends very much on whether he considers the events he was at parties, the fact one was briefed to the Times the next day and no one gave a shit tends to point to them believing they were following the rules. Yes round and round we go. It is irrelevant whether Johnson considers the events he was at as parties, he was found to have been at parties. When he promised action against those found to have been at parties it is hypocritical for him not to apply that to himself. Starmer does not consider himself to have been at a party either. Actually thats not correct pretty sure the police only passed judgement on whether these gatherings breached covid regulations, they make no judgement on what the event is or was. Starmers recollections seem a bit muddled not sure they'd stand up in a court of law.
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Post by dutchstokie on May 9, 2022 14:23:40 GMT
It's really very simple. Any MP found to have broken the law should be resigning. No ifs, no buts, no weasly words from people who can't bring themselves to see their 'own side' criticised in any way. It used to be that breaking parliamentary standards or the ministerial code resulted in resignation, but we seem to have plumbed new depths with this parliament and this government. Even breaking the laws you put in place and supported doesn't matter. Worrying times. It might not feel like it with an idiot like Bozo in charge, but wait until someone with more dangerous ideas fancies a go and refuses to shift regardless of what they do. We've been there before. With an extra caveat of paying back any said monies theyve weasled the system out of......
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Post by partickpotter on May 9, 2022 14:34:16 GMT
That’s a big we. Then again, a big wee from you ain’t a big surprise.
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Post by GrahamHyde on May 9, 2022 14:51:39 GMT
Starmer set to resign?
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Post by thewonderstuff on May 9, 2022 15:08:31 GMT
If he's fined it seems like it yeah.
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Post by Gob Bluth on May 9, 2022 15:10:58 GMT
At last, some decency injected into politics. I'm sure it'll be temporary but least it's a start.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 9, 2022 15:16:57 GMT
As Boris Johnson’s biggest fan, you of all people must know the difference between a lie and saying something you thought was the truth but turns out you were wrong about. Johnson uses the latter to excuse every “lie” he has ever told! But you are one again exposing your hypocrisy. You accuse Starmer of lying about the above and yet have never once (as far as I have seen) conceded that Johnson has lied. One rule for tories…. And you are exposing yet again your lack of understanding of the English language, clearly the link to the snp is not the only thing you have not read, try with a dictionary and look up the definition of hypocrisy. I've never called for Starmer to resign for breaking the rules but here's the thing even if I had it still wouldn't be hypocrisy, hypocrisy would be telling someone else they should resign for being investigated nevermind being fined then when you find yourself being investigated not resigning (theres always a tweet) It seems to me you are getting being partisan or one eyed as partick likes to call it mixed up with your new favourite hypocrisy word...... You are the one being critical of Starmer for his actions but you won’t be critical of Johnson for his, which are so, so much worse. I have criticised both, particularly if Starmer is fined. Starmer has said he will resign if fined. He has far more integrity than Johnson and by saying that, he has massively distanced himself from the shite in power. I am not partisan. I have never voted labour (save for Khan over Goldsmith for the London mayoral elections) and I have never voted Tory. So I do not support either party.
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