|
Post by yeswilko on Feb 25, 2021 18:31:14 GMT
I seem to remember (correct me if I'm wrong) you saying in the past that you raised kids as a single parent and that you stopped work 20 years ago through ill health. How did you come to the conclusion that the tories gave a shit about you and your situation? I imagine it must have been a struggle at times mate? Yes it has been bloody hard at times But I’ve never read a contract anywhere that says iLife should be easy We’ve managed have we had some stuff that others have had no But the boys were always clean well fed polite and have all gone on to work hard for there living Even manage to put one through university As for the politics many moons ago when I was behind the bar of the pub I was born in and later ran The conversation got on to politics and a old fellow suddenly turned round and piped up (“I’ve lived under Tory labour coalition and even liberal governments And the working mans always been better off under the Tory’s they all promise the world but you know the Tory’s will screw you so you can brace yourself and it will hurt less “) That has always stuck with me But my main problem with labour has always been there policy It’s often based on envy and often want to round down rather than up it shouldn’t be because someone has something there bad It should be this is what you should be aiming for Fair enough, some people know their place and are happy to be trodden on i suppose. Its not for me duck.
|
|
|
Post by Rick Grimes on Feb 26, 2021 7:18:38 GMT
It’s been said on here before but Labour have got no chance of ever hoping to gain power back from the Tories. They’re just not capable of uniting anymore for a common purpose, there’s at least two different factions. Corbyn was too far to the left for some, Starmer is a Blairite and too far to the right.
I can’t see anyone within Labours ranks who can sort out the division. At this point Labour may as well accept that they’re not capable of agreeing on a common goal and become at least two separate parties.
|
|
|
Post by yeswilko on Feb 26, 2021 7:37:55 GMT
It’s been said on here before but Labour have got no chance of ever hoping to gain power back from the Tories. They’re just not capable of uniting anymore for a common purpose, there’s at least two different factions. Corbyn was too far to the left for some, Starmer is a Blairite and too far to the right. I can’t see anyone within Labours ranks who can sort out the division. At this point Labour may as well accept that they’re not capable of agreeing on a common goal and become at least two separate parties. If the deaths of 130 thousand countrymen don't turn people against rule by useless posh twat, then nothing will. I speak to people every week with the same views and they all have a little pile of the daily mail next to the settee.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Feb 26, 2021 8:20:36 GMT
It’s been said on here before but Labour have got no chance of ever hoping to gain power back from the Tories. They’re just not capable of uniting anymore for a common purpose, there’s at least two different factions. Corbyn was too far to the left for some, Starmer is a Blairite and too far to the right. I can’t see anyone within Labours ranks who can sort out the division. At this point Labour may as well accept that they’re not capable of agreeing on a common goal and become at least two separate parties. If the deaths of 130 thousand countrymen don't turn people against rule by useless posh twat, then nothing will. I speak to people every week with the same views and they all have a little pile of the daily mail next to the settee. 130,000 deaths due to a virus from the PRC who covered up it's existence and allowed it to spread Worldwide, a little pile of the daily mail next to the settee ! why lazy fcukers
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 26, 2021 8:28:03 GMT
It’s been said on here before but Labour have got no chance of ever hoping to gain power back from the Tories. They’re just not capable of uniting anymore for a common purpose, there’s at least two different factions. Corbyn was too far to the left for some, Starmer is a Blairite and too far to the right. I can’t see anyone within Labours ranks who can sort out the division. At this point Labour may as well accept that they’re not capable of agreeing on a common goal and become at least two separate parties. They should absolutely become two separate parties, now is the perfect time. But alas they won’t.......
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 26, 2021 8:39:09 GMT
It’s been said on here before but Labour have got no chance of ever hoping to gain power back from the Tories. They’re just not capable of uniting anymore for a common purpose, there’s at least two different factions. Corbyn was too far to the left for some, Starmer is a Blairite and too far to the right. I can’t see anyone within Labours ranks who can sort out the division. At this point Labour may as well accept that they’re not capable of agreeing on a common goal and become at least two separate parties. If they did that they'd have even less chance of power in our daft FPTP system. There are widely divergent views in the Conservative Party, not least about Europe! But, they recognised that threat, which is basically the fundamental reason for Brexit, have neutralized it as a result of Brexit and now offer a more united party. I think the opposite! The opposition should accept the reality of our daft FPTP system and how it fractures the opposition and makes it much harder for any non-right Party to gain power, and amalgamate into one "broad church" "non-right" Party. It'll be a bi-partisan choice like the US which obviously isn't great, but unless we grow up and introduce PR, which doesn't look likely any time soon, if you're a non right-wing voter who wants to see the Tories prevented from continuing to damage the country for ordinary people, a multiplicity of opposition choices under FPTP just perpetuates the likelihood of the sole right-wing choice remaining in power.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 26, 2021 8:43:59 GMT
It’s been said on here before but Labour have got no chance of ever hoping to gain power back from the Tories. They’re just not capable of uniting anymore for a common purpose, there’s at least two different factions. Corbyn was too far to the left for some, Starmer is a Blairite and too far to the right. I can’t see anyone within Labours ranks who can sort out the division. At this point Labour may as well accept that they’re not capable of agreeing on a common goal and become at least two separate parties. If the deaths of 130 thousand countrymen don't turn people against rule by useless posh twat, then nothing will. I speak to people every week with the same views and they all have a little pile of the daily mail next to the settee. You do have to wonder, don't you? At what point did we, as a nation, decide to give so much less of a shit about each other that 130,000 dead people, the worst outcome in Europe, is apparently not a bad enough outcome to question and reject the competence of the management of it by the government?
|
|
|
Post by Rick Grimes on Feb 26, 2021 10:00:39 GMT
It’s been said on here before but Labour have got no chance of ever hoping to gain power back from the Tories. They’re just not capable of uniting anymore for a common purpose, there’s at least two different factions. Corbyn was too far to the left for some, Starmer is a Blairite and too far to the right. I can’t see anyone within Labours ranks who can sort out the division. At this point Labour may as well accept that they’re not capable of agreeing on a common goal and become at least two separate parties. If they did that they'd have even less chance of power in our daft FPTP system. There are widely divergent views in the Conservative Party, not least about Europe! But, they recognised that threat, which is basically the fundamental reason for Brexit, have neutralized it as a result of Brexit and now offer a more united party. I think the opposite! The opposition should accept the reality of our daft FPTP system and how it fractures the opposition and makes it much harder for any non-right Party to gain power, and amalgamate into one "broad church" "non-right" Party. It'll be a bi-partisan choice like the US which obviously isn't great, but unless we grow up and introduce PR, which doesn't look likely any time soon, if you're a non right-wing voter who wants to see the Tories prevented from continuing to damage the country for ordinary people, a multiplicity of opposition choices under FPTP just perpetuates the likelihood of the sole right-wing choice remaining in power. I get what you’re saying but what are the chances of the non-right wing parties coming to such an agreement. The Tories have badly mishandled the pandemic and yet I fear that even that isn’t enough to get people to vote for Labour, such is the disarray within the party.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 26, 2021 16:59:37 GMT
If they did that they'd have even less chance of power in our daft FPTP system. There are widely divergent views in the Conservative Party, not least about Europe! But, they recognised that threat, which is basically the fundamental reason for Brexit, have neutralized it as a result of Brexit and now offer a more united party. I think the opposite! The opposition should accept the reality of our daft FPTP system and how it fractures the opposition and makes it much harder for any non-right Party to gain power, and amalgamate into one "broad church" "non-right" Party. It'll be a bi-partisan choice like the US which obviously isn't great, but unless we grow up and introduce PR, which doesn't look likely any time soon, if you're a non right-wing voter who wants to see the Tories prevented from continuing to damage the country for ordinary people, a multiplicity of opposition choices under FPTP just perpetuates the likelihood of the sole right-wing choice remaining in power. I get what you’re saying but what are the chances of the non-right wing parties coming to such an agreement. The Tories have badly mishandled the pandemic and yet I fear that even that isn’t enough to get people to vote for Labour, such is the disarray within the party. Quite possibly none. In which case, get used to years of Tory rule! I think you're mainly right on the second point. I don't think the Labour Party is in particular disarray in itself, it's more that it just doesn't appeal to the kind of voter who is supporting the Tories these days. England has become such a broadly right-wing country anyway over the last forty odd years, to an extent that even a cock-up as bad as the Covid pandemic doesn't dent Tory support, and on top of that the Tories have tapped successfully into the populist vote which has increased in recent years. It remains to be seen whether they can hang onto that vote. Now that we have left the EU, the Tories will have to find a new direction to channel the populist anger, which might not be so easy? Welfare claimants, the unemployed, environmentalists? No quite so easy or obvious a target as migrants and the EU. Someone will need to be found to divert attention away from their record. Or perhaps they'll surprise us all and actually level up the country as promised!
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 26, 2021 17:09:48 GMT
I get what you’re saying but what are the chances of the non-right wing parties coming to such an agreement. The Tories have badly mishandled the pandemic and yet I fear that even that isn’t enough to get people to vote for Labour, such is the disarray within the party. Quite possibly none. In which case, get used to years of Tory rule! I think you're mainly right on the second point. I don't think the Labour Party is in particular disarray in itself, it's more that it just doesn't appeal to the kind of voter who is supporting the Tories these days. England has become such a broadly right-wing country anyway over the last forty odd years, to an extent that even a cock-up as bad as the Covid pandemic doesn't dent Tory support, and on top of that the Tories have tapped successfully into the populist vote which has increased in recent years. It remains to be seen whether they can hang onto that vote. Now that we have left the EU, the Tories will have to find a new direction to channel the populist anger, which might not be so easy? Welfare claimants, the unemployed, environmentalists? No quite so easy or obvious a target as migrants and the EU. Someone will need to be found to divert attention away from their record. Or perhaps they'll surprise us all and actually level up the country as promised! I don't think the UK, even England, is currently as right wing on the economy as you might think. People are open to forms of public ownership, more secure forms of employment, progressive taxation than they have been for ages. It makes Starmer's positioning all the more unfathomable.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 26, 2021 17:26:46 GMT
Quite possibly none. In which case, get used to years of Tory rule! I think you're mainly right on the second point. I don't think the Labour Party is in particular disarray in itself, it's more that it just doesn't appeal to the kind of voter who is supporting the Tories these days. England has become such a broadly right-wing country anyway over the last forty odd years, to an extent that even a cock-up as bad as the Covid pandemic doesn't dent Tory support, and on top of that the Tories have tapped successfully into the populist vote which has increased in recent years. It remains to be seen whether they can hang onto that vote. Now that we have left the EU, the Tories will have to find a new direction to channel the populist anger, which might not be so easy? Welfare claimants, the unemployed, environmentalists? No quite so easy or obvious a target as migrants and the EU. Someone will need to be found to divert attention away from their record. Or perhaps they'll surprise us all and actually level up the country as promised! I don't think the UK, even England, is currently as right wing on the economy as you might think. People are open to forms of public ownership, more secure forms of employment, progressive taxation than they have been for ages. It makes Starmer's positioning all the more unfathomable. They often are, in the inter-election period. People often say they'd happily pay an extra penny in the pound on income tax if it was spent on the NHS, or other areas they support and want to see improve, then at election time they vote for parties which promise to keep taxes low or reduce them. No-one's voted in a party promising to re-nationalise various industries for over forty years.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 1, 2021 14:24:07 GMT
"More flags, get me more flags. And make them bigger for fucks sake......"
|
|
|
Post by thebet365 on Mar 3, 2021 13:34:48 GMT
Who's Starmer borrowed some balls from? he's finally come down from the fence.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 3, 2021 13:48:51 GMT
Who's Starmer borrowed some balls from? he's finally come down from the fence. His fellow Trilateral Commission members must have given him permission....
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 4, 2021 19:45:00 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Rick Grimes on Mar 4, 2021 20:17:04 GMT
Things are looking dire for Labour.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 4, 2021 20:21:28 GMT
Things are looking dire for Labour. After there response to the budget I can only see it getting worse.....
|
|
|
Post by Rick Grimes on Mar 4, 2021 20:29:47 GMT
Things are looking dire for Labour. After there response to the budget I can only see it getting worse..... Yep, it’s tough to see, there’s no way the Tories should be in such a position after some of the clangers they’ve dropped.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 4, 2021 20:33:46 GMT
When Starmer and his merry band of conspirators were busy purposely sabotaging the election and telling people there should be a 20 point difference in the polls between the Tories and Labour I didn't think they'd widen the gap so quickly. You have to be fair to and say well done to them.
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 4, 2021 20:39:33 GMT
When Starmer and his merry band of conspirators were busy purposely sabotaging the election and telling people there should be a 20 point difference in the polls between the Tories and Labour I didn't think they'd widen the gap so quickly. You have to be fair to and say well done to them. I think if Corbyn was in charge you could double that margin. Kiers pulled the lead back if anything.
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 4, 2021 20:44:19 GMT
Things are looking dire for Labour. It's the successful roll out of the vaccine that is sending the Tories up in the polls isn't it? Not saying Labour hasn't messed up on certain things recently but the vaccine roll out is surely the reason for most of the swing. The aim for the Tories will be to make this last longer in the memory than their many fuck ups along the way - I think it's highly likely that will be the case come the next election.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 4, 2021 20:49:24 GMT
When Starmer and his merry band of conspirators were busy purposely sabotaging the election and telling people there should be a 20 point difference in the polls between the Tories and Labour I didn't think they'd widen the gap so quickly. You have to be fair to and say well done to them. I think if Corbyn was in charge you could double that margin. Kiers pulled the lead back if anything. The gap has been steadily growing since October, pre vaccine and Starmers ratings are rock bottom. This is all on Starmer and his pathetic leadership so far.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Mar 4, 2021 20:59:56 GMT
When Starmer and his merry band of conspirators were busy purposely sabotaging the election and telling people there should be a 20 point difference in the polls between the Tories and Labour I didn't think they'd widen the gap so quickly. You have to be fair to and say well done to them. I think if Corbyn was in charge you could double that margin. Kiers pulled the lead back if anything. They really still have not accepted that Corbyn and his brand of Marxism sorry socialism damaged their party for the foreseeable future, they have to accept that we will not see a genuine socialist government in the UK in their lifetime, even bumbling Boris is a preferred option to a mortally wounded Labour Party despite a Tory in a red tie in charge.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 4, 2021 21:07:05 GMT
When Starmer and his merry band of conspirators were busy purposely sabotaging the election and telling people there should be a 20 point difference in the polls between the Tories and Labour I didn't think they'd widen the gap so quickly. You have to be fair to and say well done to them. I think if Corbyn was in charge you could double that margin. Kiers pulled the lead back if anything. Starmer has had an easy ride from the MSM, they haven’t even laid a glove on him yet. Wait until they start turning the screw with some of his DPP controversies, his purge of ordinarily CLP members, the Corbyn issue which he’s made more newsworthy than it ever needed to be. I thought it was Johnson who wouldn’t last a full term, I think he could be Starmer at this rate......
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 4, 2021 21:18:08 GMT
I think if Corbyn was in charge you could double that margin. Kiers pulled the lead back if anything. The gap has been steadily growing since October, pre vaccine and Starmers ratings are rock bottom. This is all on Starmer and his pathetic leadership so far. Do you think it’s Starmer the person or his policies that are costing Labour the vote?
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 4, 2021 21:54:47 GMT
The gap has been steadily growing since October, pre vaccine and Starmers ratings are rock bottom. This is all on Starmer and his pathetic leadership so far. Do you think it’s Starmer the person or his policies that are costing Labour the vote? He hardly has any policies, so it must be him I guess......
|
|
|
Post by Dave the Rave on Mar 4, 2021 21:57:13 GMT
Things are looking dire for Labour. It's the successful roll out of the vaccine that is sending the Tories up in the polls isn't it? Not saying Labour hasn't messed up on certain things recently but the vaccine roll out is surely the reason for most of the swing. The aim for the Tories will be to make this last longer in the memory than their many fuck ups along the way - I think it's highly likely that will be the case come the next election. Most people don't know they've made any fuck ups. The level of political apathy in this country astounds me.
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 5, 2021 4:36:06 GMT
It's the successful roll out of the vaccine that is sending the Tories up in the polls isn't it? Not saying Labour hasn't messed up on certain things recently but the vaccine roll out is surely the reason for most of the swing. The aim for the Tories will be to make this last longer in the memory than their many fuck ups along the way - I think it's highly likely that will be the case come the next election. Most people don't know they've made any fuck ups. The level of political apathy in this country astounds me. I think they do I just think that they think the alternative will be a whole lot worse. The thought of a Labour government scares a lot of people even though Corbyn’s gone now a lot of his team remain a lot of whom are just too radical for most people to think they could be part of a party that form a government. I’m not saying it’s right but I think the majority of people vote Tory not because they particularly like them but because they’re scared of the damage that a Labour government could do and most people don’t like change. So part of what you say is probably right but don’t blame the Tories blame the Labour Party for making themselves unelectable for various reasons. A lot of it’s down to image and even though Johnson’s a clown and totally unsuitable leader material people like him as a person because he’s a big personality who’s got charisma.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 5, 2021 7:31:12 GMT
Most people don't know they've made any fuck ups. The level of political apathy in this country astounds me. I think they do I just think that they think the alternative will be a whole lot worse. The thought of a Labour government scares a lot of people even though Corbyn’s gone now a lot of his team remain a lot of whom are just too radical for most people to think they could be part of a party that form a government. I’m not saying it’s right but I think the majority of people vote Tory not because they particularly like them but because they’re scared of the damage that a Labour government could do and most people don’t like change. So part of what you say is probably right but don’t blame the Tories blame the Labour Party for making themselves unelectable for various reasons. A lot of it’s down to image and even though Johnson’s a clown and totally unsuitable leader material people like him as a person because he’s a big personality who’s got charisma. I think this is basically right. Factor in the general level of apathy and political unawareness in the country, a press which overwhelmingly promotes right-wing politics and an obsession with characters and charisma over competence and it's not really surprising the basic default position of the electorate in England at least is to vote right-wing. If you put together the worst death toll in Europe, dozens of dodgy PPE deals, billions wasted on failed track and trace etc etc and the result is that enough people still manage to convince themselves that the alternative would be worse, you can only wonder what it'd take to change that view! Or perhaps we've just reached the point that provided we're individually ok, the rest doesn't matter?
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 5, 2021 7:36:35 GMT
I think they do I just think that they think the alternative will be a whole lot worse. The thought of a Labour government scares a lot of people even though Corbyn’s gone now a lot of his team remain a lot of whom are just too radical for most people to think they could be part of a party that form a government. I’m not saying it’s right but I think the majority of people vote Tory not because they particularly like them but because they’re scared of the damage that a Labour government could do and most people don’t like change. So part of what you say is probably right but don’t blame the Tories blame the Labour Party for making themselves unelectable for various reasons. A lot of it’s down to image and even though Johnson’s a clown and totally unsuitable leader material people like him as a person because he’s a big personality who’s got charisma. I think this is basically right. Factor in the general level of apathy and political unawareness in the country, a press which overwhelmingly promotes right-wing politics and an obsession with characters and charisma over competence and it's not really surprising the basic default position of the electorate in England at least is to vote right-wing. If you put together the worst death toll in Europe, dozens of dodgy PPE deals, billions wasted on failed track and trace etc etc and the result is that enough people still manage to convince themselves that the alternative would be worse, you can only wonder what it'd take to change that view! So what you’re basically saying is if you vote Tory and not Labour you don’t have a clue. Ultimately it’s just people not sharing an opinion. Every parties going to make big mistakes and corruption that sadly is politicians for you. People it seems rarely go into politics for the right reasons even those involved in local councils it’s all about the ego. I’m sure that it Labour ever got into power you’d have the same “government-utter-shambles-incompetent” thread it’d be just other posters posting there views on it.
|
|