|
|
Post by wannabee on Nov 25, 2024 14:15:33 GMT
Opinion Polls and near enough everyone bar the champagne socialists would disagree. I noticed Huddy slagging off Blackrock above. No doubt he's got a pension and if so has his greasy mits all over Blackrock and its assets. No fan of Starmer (as those who pay attention already know) but a poll conducted the other days shows they'd still get in with a 40 seat majority. So like most things you're wrong again, marra. Strange that most people clamouring for another GE were also outraged that a second Referendum could occur. They obviously don't respect "the will of the people " |
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 25, 2024 14:31:00 GMT
No fan of Starmer (as those who pay attention already know) but a poll conducted the other days shows they'd still get in with a 40 seat majority. So like most things you're wrong again, marra. Lefty Twitter link or it didn't happen. Pathetic. |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Nov 25, 2024 15:07:57 GMT
Changes to IHT, CGT, non-doms and VAT on school fees will impact the richer in society rather than the poorer. Keeping the freeze on income tax thresholds taxes workers more already. So I am glad businesses are shouldering the extra pain rather than workers. Some will no doubt go bust. That’s sad. But money is needed to make good (or at least halt) the devastation on our public services that we have had for the past 15 years. The problem is I'm not sure if the taxes are correctly targeted. The fact that criticism of the inheritance tax on agricultural land is often rebutted with people listing various tricks to avoid it doesn't really give any confidence in the tax itself. Especially as I presume the wealthiest will be most intuned in the various tricks which they can use to avoid it or at least lesser their tax requirements. The tax book itself needs radically overhauled to clamp down on the various loopholes which allow the wealthiest to avoid their tax requirements. So in a sense it feels like gesture politics because celebrating a tax change and then responding to criticism on said tax change with ways to avoid it (even the bbc are listing how to avoid it) feels counter intuitive. How does it increase the tax of someone such as Jim Ratcliffe residing in Monaco? How will it impact Leonard Blavatnik? Are we going to be saying vast amounts of their wealth be taxed when they die? The cynic in me doubts it because the tax book enables it to be avoided and they'll have the best accountants ensuring they pay as little as possible. Will the accidental millionaire farmer who makes a modest living as a dairy farmer on a small farm be quite so smart or have the disposibal income or time to be able to utilise tax experts to lower their tax requirements? I doubt it. And so... it feels slightly like gesture politics. A key thing people forget about those who inherit agricultural land compared to residential property are the retention rates. Agricultural land is mostly retained whereas residential property is often sold. So for generational families who have become millionaires due to the value of their land which is likely outside their control... this will impact them. Especially those who have no intention of ever selling the land and just want to work it like their ancestors. Of course I'm much more cynical than others here. But I expect to foresee retention levels of agricultural land dropping and not because of a sudden urge to sell but instead because their hand has been forced. And I don't think it will be the average person who benefits from that. I don’t disagree with most of that. If Starmer taxes workers and the poor, you would be angry. He increases taxes on wealthier individuals and he is still criticised. If people are hell bent on avoiding tax they will. Basing yourself in Monaco or the UAE for example. Starmer cannot do anything about that. I still think it is better to increase taxes on the richer people rather than not bother because it is too difficult and so we take more from PAYE because that’s easy. I would simplify tax if in charge. But whatever changes are made, there will always be people complaining. If he introduced a wealth tax no doubt the right wing press would go crazy about a handful of rich selfish people moving abroad as a result and Starmer would be criticised. Tax is essential if we want decent public services. Whilst I don’t think the changes in the budget are by any means perfect, or brilliant even, they are undoubtedly a step in the right direction. And we have been walking backwards on tax for years allowing the burden to be met by workers or just defunding public services, neither of which I am a fan of. |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Nov 25, 2024 15:11:49 GMT
Changes to IHT, CGT, non-doms and VAT on school fees will impact the richer in society rather than the poorer. Keeping the freeze on income tax thresholds taxes workers more already. So I am glad businesses are shouldering the extra pain rather than workers. Some will no doubt go bust. That’s sad. But money is needed to make good (or at least halt) the devastation on our public services that we have had for the past 15 years. if they go bust then that money goes down "changes to IHT, CGT, non-doms and VAT on school fees will impact the richer in society rather than the poorer. " not as much as wealth and higher income taxes to the uper wealthy who you say can shoulder the extra pain all their tax rises and spending cuts are aimed at traditionally likley tory voters, it was an absolute political choice to go after these people but without the bollocks to admit it So Starmer can only increase taxes on Labour voters!? If lots of businesses go bust, it will have been a bad move. Let’s see. I imagine lots won’t go bust by the small increase to NI. I agree that IHT and CGT could be raised higher, absolutely. But the fact they weren’t doesn’t make the changes wrong. It is a step in the right direction. |
|
|
|
Post by emretezzy on Nov 25, 2024 15:57:57 GMT
No fan of Starmer (as those who pay attention already know) but a poll conducted the other days shows they'd still get in with a 40 seat majority. So like most things you're wrong again, marra. Strange that most people clamouring for another GE were also outraged that a second Referendum could occur. They obviously don't respect "the will of the people " Who's clamouring? We've got another 4 years left. Then that will be it a good while. Huddy and the rest of the Oatcake Socialist A-Team can go into the sunset with his Blockrock enriched pension. Whilst us business owners get back to fixing the mess. |
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 25, 2024 15:57:57 GMT
The problem is I'm not sure if the taxes are correctly targeted. The fact that criticism of the inheritance tax on agricultural land is often rebutted with people listing various tricks to avoid it doesn't really give any confidence in the tax itself. Especially as I presume the wealthiest will be most intuned in the various tricks which they can use to avoid it or at least lesser their tax requirements. The tax book itself needs radically overhauled to clamp down on the various loopholes which allow the wealthiest to avoid their tax requirements. So in a sense it feels like gesture politics because celebrating a tax change and then responding to criticism on said tax change with ways to avoid it (even the bbc are listing how to avoid it) feels counter intuitive. How does it increase the tax of someone such as Jim Ratcliffe residing in Monaco? How will it impact Leonard Blavatnik? Are we going to be saying vast amounts of their wealth be taxed when they die? The cynic in me doubts it because the tax book enables it to be avoided and they'll have the best accountants ensuring they pay as little as possible. Will the accidental millionaire farmer who makes a modest living as a dairy farmer on a small farm be quite so smart or have the disposibal income or time to be able to utilise tax experts to lower their tax requirements? I doubt it. And so... it feels slightly like gesture politics. A key thing people forget about those who inherit agricultural land compared to residential property are the retention rates. Agricultural land is mostly retained whereas residential property is often sold. So for generational families who have become millionaires due to the value of their land which is likely outside their control... this will impact them. Especially those who have no intention of ever selling the land and just want to work it like their ancestors. Of course I'm much more cynical than others here. But I expect to foresee retention levels of agricultural land dropping and not because of a sudden urge to sell but instead because their hand has been forced. And I don't think it will be the average person who benefits from that. I don’t disagree with most of that. If Starmer taxes workers and the poor, you would be angry. He increases taxes on wealthier individuals and he is still criticised. If people are hell bent on avoiding tax they will. Basing yourself in Monaco or the UAE for example. Starmer cannot do anything about that. I still think it is better to increase taxes on the richer people rather than not bother because it is too difficult and so we take more from PAYE because that’s easy. I would simplify tax if in charge. But whatever changes are made, there will always be people complaining. If he introduced a wealth tax no doubt the right wing press would go crazy about a handful of rich selfish people moving abroad as a result and Starmer would be criticised. Tax is essential if we want decent public services. Whilst I don’t think the changes in the budget are by any means perfect, or brilliant even, they are undoubtedly a step in the right direction. And we have been walking backwards on tax for years allowing the burden to be met by workers or just defunding public services, neither of which I am a fan of. There you go oggy. You're nearly there now. Granted the article is 9 years old but herein lies the problem. The UK has by far the longest most arduous tax legislation in the world. 20,000 odd pages compared to Hong Kong's 276 pages that is considered to be the world's most efficient. The super rich are taking the piss and rinsing us all below dry. And this is why people get pissed off. Because this stupid mantra of the broadest shoulders ends up meaning people who work their knackers off to do alright and become a bit wealthy keep getting hammered. And the very wealthy get away with it. Our tax legislation needs a full overhaul to sort this issue out and to stop the middle and working classes fighting over a fair tax take when all the while the real rich bastards sit there laughing at us all. Amd yet more evidence of why clapping the fact the farmers are getting their dues is the most futile of victories for the sake of 500m quid whilst at the same time slamming a torpedo into our national food security. A pointless fucking exercise🙄 |
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Nov 25, 2024 16:00:41 GMT
Changes to IHT, CGT, non-doms and VAT on school fees will impact the richer in society rather than the poorer. Keeping the freeze on income tax thresholds taxes workers more already. So I am glad businesses are shouldering the extra pain rather than workers. Some will no doubt go bust. That’s sad. But money is needed to make good (or at least halt) the devastation on our public services that we have had for the past 15 years. if they go bust then that money goes down "changes to IHT, CGT, non-doms and VAT on school fees will impact the richer in society rather than the poorer. " not as much as wealth and higher income taxes to the uper wealthy who you say can shoulder the extra pain all their tax rises and spending cuts are aimed at traditionally likley tory voters, it was an absolute political choice to go after these people but without the bollocks to admit it Of course all Political Party's make Political Choices which are more in tune with their ideology and those who vote for them In the course of the 14 years of the last administration they increased IHT Allowances reduced Corporation Tax and CGT rates. It was Major that gave Private Schools VAT exemption and the less said about Truss's Trickle Down Budget the better |
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Nov 25, 2024 16:03:00 GMT
Strange that most people clamouring for another GE were also outraged that a second Referendum could occur. They obviously don't respect "the will of the people " Who's clamouring? We've got another 4 years left. Then that will be it a good while. Huddy and the rest of the Oatcake Socialist A-Team can go into the sunset with his Blockrock enriched pension. Whilst us business owners get back to fixing the mess. Quite a few on here and about 2M so far signing a petition |
|
|
|
Post by emretezzy on Nov 25, 2024 16:05:46 GMT
Who's clamouring? We've got another 4 years left. Then that will be it a good while. Huddy and the rest of the Oatcake Socialist A-Team can go into the sunset with his Blockrock enriched pension. Whilst us business owners get back to fixing the mess. Quite a few on here and about 2M so far signing a petition Oh right, thought it was all Bots from Angola. I couldn't care less about stuff like that. It's just a gimmick. We've got another 4 years then we can go again. |
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Nov 25, 2024 16:15:33 GMT
Who's clamouring? We've got another 4 years left. Then that will be it a good while. Huddy and the rest of the Oatcake Socialist A-Team can go into the sunset with his Blockrock enriched pension. Whilst us business owners get back to fixing the mess. Quite a few on here and about 2M so far signing a petition i bet a lot of them didnt even vote |
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Nov 25, 2024 16:26:42 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 25, 2024 17:06:44 GMT
"I wouldn't swap a single day in opposition for a day in power" Take that how you want... |
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 25, 2024 19:51:59 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 25, 2024 21:07:33 GMT
"I wouldn't swap a single day in opposition for a day in power" Take that how you want... Incredibly long winded but I believe it pretty much describes Labour and their leaders in office. They some to enjoy alluding to being 'in power' rather than 'holding office', which depending on your viewpoint, can be interpreted and construed any number of ways eg. smugly, confidently, threateningly, triumphantly etc. I suppose it all depends if you trust them, which they make it very difficult to do if you were supposed to take them at their word. |
|
|
|
Post by middleoftheboothen on Nov 25, 2024 21:20:15 GMT
He'll be calling himself Sir/madam/they/them Starmer next to keep in with the woke brigade 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by middleoftheboothen on Nov 25, 2024 21:23:10 GMT
"I wouldn't swap a single day in opposition for a day in power" Take that how you want... He's already the opposition in my book. He's freezing our pensioners to death and stealing from our farmers. Not to mention letting out violent criminals and the countless other fuck ups he's made since taking charge. |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Nov 25, 2024 21:48:05 GMT
"I wouldn't swap a single day in opposition for a day in power" Take that how you want... He's already the opposition in my book. He's freezing our pensioners to death and stealing from our farmers. Not to mention letting out violent criminals and the countless other fuck ups he's made since taking charge. Worst of all, he’s got waiting times in the NHS down, and he has deported loads more failed asylum seekers from these shores so we don’t have to pay for them being in a hotel. And don’t get me started on increasing taxes on wealth! Who does he think he is! |
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 25, 2024 22:01:38 GMT
He's already the opposition in my book. He's freezing our pensioners to death and stealing from our farmers. Not to mention letting out violent criminals and the countless other fuck ups he's made since taking charge. Worst of all, he’s got waiting times in the NHS down, and he has deported loads more failed asylum seekers from these shores so we don’t have to pay for them being in a hotel. And don’t get me started on increasing taxes on wealth! Who does he think he is! Along with releasing dangerous criminals and replacing them with hurty feelings tweeters and people shouting stuff in public |
|
|
|
Post by middleoftheboothen on Nov 25, 2024 22:02:01 GMT
He's already the opposition in my book. He's freezing our pensioners to death and stealing from our farmers. Not to mention letting out violent criminals and the countless other fuck ups he's made since taking charge. Worst of all, he’s got waiting times in the NHS down, and he has deported loads more failed asylum seekers from these shores so we don’t have to pay for them being in a hotel. And don’t get me started on increasing taxes on wealth! Who does he think he is! Well hello Kier I didn't realise you frequented this forum. |
|
|
|
Post by middleoftheboothen on Nov 25, 2024 22:03:30 GMT
Worst of all, he’s got waiting times in the NHS down, and he has deported loads more failed asylum seekers from these shores so we don’t have to pay for them being in a hotel. And don’t get me started on increasing taxes on wealth! Who does he think he is! Along with releasing dangerous criminals and replacing them with hurty feelings tweeters and people shouting stuff in public You'll get all the hurty feelings folk responding to this one Badge 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 25, 2024 22:07:04 GMT
Along with releasing dangerous criminals and replacing them with hurty feelings tweeters and people shouting stuff in public You'll get all the hurty feelings folk responding to this one Badge 😁 Even Kier doesn’t find The Last Leg funny tbf |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Nov 25, 2024 22:07:39 GMT
Worst of all, he’s got waiting times in the NHS down, and he has deported loads more failed asylum seekers from these shores so we don’t have to pay for them being in a hotel. And don’t get me started on increasing taxes on wealth! Who does he think he is! Along with releasing dangerous criminals and replacing them with hurty feelings tweeters and people shouting stuff in public Yes, the tories defunded the justice department budget more than any other since austerity |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Nov 25, 2024 22:09:49 GMT
Worst of all, he’s got waiting times in the NHS down, and he has deported loads more failed asylum seekers from these shores so we don’t have to pay for them being in a hotel. And don’t get me started on increasing taxes on wealth! Who does he think he is! Well hello Kier I didn't realise you frequented this forum. If you are going to be critical of the things you disagree with at least give credit where it is due. |
|
|
|
Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 25, 2024 22:34:59 GMT
You'll get all the hurty feelings folk responding to this one Badge 😁 Even Kier doesn’t find The Last Leg funny tbf That's because he's like the Tin Man. |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 25, 2024 23:14:03 GMT
I mean it's pretty clear that Starmer is already highly unpopular and it's unprecedented to see a democratically elected leader so unpopular so soon into what should be their honeymoon period.
That said, I'm afraid Brits only have themselves to blame and it's a real shame so many genuinely thought a plank like Starmer would bring about the positive change this country needed. Quite why many voted for this pro establishment Labour government is beyond me but hey, that's democracy and everyone had a choice.
There were options. There were so many die hard Tories who despised the weak liberal policies of the previous Conservative government but didn't have the bollocks to vote for Reform simply on the basis they'll "only ever vote Tory". There were so many anti establishment Corbynista supporters who voted for the very guy who dumped Corbyn out the party simply because they felt Labour weren't the Tories. There were greeny lefties who went down the Starmer route instead of voting for the green party. Then there were the millions who didn't vote. And so much more in between.
It was a decision made by a chunk of the British public (an inevitably bad one in my view) but it is what it is and it's all too late to start asking for another election just a few months after the result this summer. It's come and gone and unfortunately as a country there will be a lot of misery ahead in the next few years.
The next election is going to be the most unique of our lifetime. For the first time in our lives we will have 3 parties who can feasibly win and a 4th and 5th party who could hugely influence the outcome.
Let's hope in the next election, people vote for a leader who truly reflects their values and beliefs and not for a party simply because they are not the party they don't like.
|
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 26, 2024 0:03:57 GMT
I mean it's pretty clear that Starmer is already highly unpopular and it's unprecedented to see a democratically elected leader so unpopular so soon into what should be their honeymoon period. That said, I'm afraid Brits only have themselves to blame and it's a real shame so many genuinely thought a plank like Starmer would bring about the positive change this country needed. Quite why many voted for this pro establishment Labour government is beyond me but hey, that's democracy and everyone had a choice. There were options. There were so many die hard Tories who despised the weak liberal policies of the previous Conservative government but didn't have the bollocks to vote for Reform simply on the basis they'll "only ever vote Tory". There were so many anti establishment Corbynista supporters who voted for the very guy who dumped Corbyn out the party simply because they felt Labour weren't the Tories. There were greeny lefties who went down the Starmer route instead of voting for the green party. Then there were the millions who didn't vote. And so much more in between. It was a decision made by a chunk of the British public (an inevitably bad one in my view) but it is what it is and it's all too late to start asking for another election just a few months after the result this summer. It's come and gone and unfortunately as a country there will be a lot of misery ahead in the next few years. The next election is going to be the most unique of our lifetime. For the first time in our lives we will have 3 parties who can feasibly win and a 4th and 5th party who could hugely influence the outcome. Let's hope in the next election, people vote for a leader who truly reflects their values and beliefs and not for a party simply because they are not the party they don't like. Was there? |
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Nov 26, 2024 2:54:36 GMT
I mean it's pretty clear that Starmer is already highly unpopular and it's unprecedented to see a democratically elected leader so unpopular so soon into what should be their honeymoon period. That said, I'm afraid Brits only have themselves to blame and it's a real shame so many genuinely thought a plank like Starmer would bring about the positive change this country needed. Quite why many voted for this pro establishment Labour government is beyond me but hey, that's democracy and everyone had a choice. There were options. There were so many die hard Tories who despised the weak liberal policies of the previous Conservative government but didn't have the bollocks to vote for Reform simply on the basis they'll "only ever vote Tory". There were so many anti establishment Corbynista supporters who voted for the very guy who dumped Corbyn out the party simply because they felt Labour weren't the Tories. There were greeny lefties who went down the Starmer route instead of voting for the green party. Then there were the millions who didn't vote. And so much more in between. It was a decision made by a chunk of the British public (an inevitably bad one in my view) but it is what it is and it's all too late to start asking for another election just a few months after the result this summer. It's come and gone and unfortunately as a country there will be a lot of misery ahead in the next few years. The next election is going to be the most unique of our lifetime. For the first time in our lives we will have 3 parties who can feasibly win and a 4th and 5th party who could hugely influence the outcome. Let's hope in the next election, people vote for a leader who truly reflects their values and beliefs and not for a party simply because they are not the party they don't like. Was there? It's going to be quite a shock to Bianco if he ever discovers that Starmer got 0.5M less votes and won a landslide than Corbyn did in the "Get Brexit Done" Election. |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 26, 2024 3:43:39 GMT
I mean it's pretty clear that Starmer is already highly unpopular and it's unprecedented to see a democratically elected leader so unpopular so soon into what should be their honeymoon period. That said, I'm afraid Brits only have themselves to blame and it's a real shame so many genuinely thought a plank like Starmer would bring about the positive change this country needed. Quite why many voted for this pro establishment Labour government is beyond me but hey, that's democracy and everyone had a choice. There were options. There were so many die hard Tories who despised the weak liberal policies of the previous Conservative government but didn't have the bollocks to vote for Reform simply on the basis they'll "only ever vote Tory". There were so many anti establishment Corbynista supporters who voted for the very guy who dumped Corbyn out the party simply because they felt Labour weren't the Tories. There were greeny lefties who went down the Starmer route instead of voting for the green party. Then there were the millions who didn't vote. And so much more in between. It was a decision made by a chunk of the British public (an inevitably bad one in my view) but it is what it is and it's all too late to start asking for another election just a few months after the result this summer. It's come and gone and unfortunately as a country there will be a lot of misery ahead in the next few years. The next election is going to be the most unique of our lifetime. For the first time in our lives we will have 3 parties who can feasibly win and a 4th and 5th party who could hugely influence the outcome. Let's hope in the next election, people vote for a leader who truly reflects their values and beliefs and not for a party simply because they are not the party they don't like. Was there? Absolutely. And let's be honest, had it not been for his stance on the Gaza war, we'd have seen even more of the 2019 Corbyn vote go to Starmer. |
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 26, 2024 9:59:20 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Nov 26, 2024 10:07:07 GMT
|
|
