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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 26, 2024 9:43:13 GMT
Not from his earned income. It is finally clicking! Unearned income can be taxed more as you don’t work for it. Earned income cannot. Capital or wealth taxes are separate. It is really basic stuff. But you do work for it. How do you think they got the assets in the first place? They worked for it 👍 its a stupid definition. Please explain how you work for unearned income? If you have been left a property (an asset) and decide to rent it out to make money for yourself - that is classed as unearned income and you currently get taxed at a much lower rate than income tax. If you own and run a business and pay yourself in shares - that is currently classed as unearned income and you get taxed at a lower rate than income tax. If you pay yourself a monthly salary, you pay income tax. Labour's definition effectively equalises the tax burden people pay in tax from their earned and unearned income. Labour's tax policies focus on increasing taxes on unearned income, such as capital gains tax and inheritance tax, rather than raising income tax, VAT, or National Insurance for those who fall under their definition of "working people". This approach aims to protect regular wage earners from tax hikes while targeting wealthier individuals who derive significant income from investments and so pay less tax on them a a proportion. In many ways, it's the most Blairite and blatant form of tax burden redistribution this country has seen in a long time. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 26, 2024 9:44:02 GMT
Presumably, you don't pay off your debts, then? Thought you were at least moderately intelligent You know as well as I do they will repay it all just taking longer Costing the country more You do yourself a disservice by attempting cheap shots How does it cost the country more? |
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 26, 2024 9:46:34 GMT
Thought you were at least moderately intelligent You know as well as I do they will repay it all just taking longer Costing the country more You do yourself a disservice by attempting cheap shots How does it cost the country more? Because if it’s government money it becomes debt the longer a debt is unpaid the more interest is paid |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 26, 2024 9:48:25 GMT
But you do work for it. How do you think they got the assets in the first place? They worked for it 👍 its a stupid definition. Most wealth is inherited. Passive or unearned income is not protected. Earned income, what the vast majority live off, is protected. Only the wealthy with savings, investments or extra properties wil pay more on their passive income. Is most wealth inherited? And is this what this is actually about, the mass redistribution of other peoples money who apparently haven't worked for it, even though they have worked for it. In large part the money of the person who provides the jobs. Doesn't seem very business friendly. Grow the economy I keep hearing them say 😆 |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 26, 2024 9:58:24 GMT
Most wealth is inherited. Passive or unearned income is not protected. Earned income, what the vast majority live off, is protected. Only the wealthy with savings, investments or extra properties wil pay more on their passive income. Is most wealth inherited? And is this what this is actually about, the mass redistribution of other peoples money who apparently haven't worked for it, even though they have worked for it. In large part the money of the person who provides the jobs. Doesn't seem very business friendly. Grow the economy I keep hearing them say 😆 So you prefer trickle down economics? How’s that gone? Do we live in a fair society? Yes most wealth is inherited and passed down to the next generation. If that weren’t true we’d see far more social mobility. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 26, 2024 9:59:24 GMT
Is he an employee? If so, that income is protected. Unearned income is not protected. Yes he’s employed But he’s still going to be taxed more correct He’s a working man who will be paying more tax fact Not on the income he works for. And if he is so desperate to avoid higher tax rates, he can put all the properties into a company and pay himself as a director and not pay himself passive income from dividends or rental income. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 26, 2024 10:00:58 GMT
Most wealth is inherited. Passive or unearned income is not protected. Earned income, what the vast majority live off, is protected. Only the wealthy with savings, investments or extra properties wil pay more on their passive income. Is most wealth inherited? And is this what this is actually about, the mass redistribution of other peoples money who apparently haven't worked for it, even though they have worked for it. In large part the money of the person who provides the jobs. Doesn't seem very business friendly. Grow the economy I keep hearing them say 😆 Inheritance does play a significant role in wealth distribution in the UK, but it's not the only factor. According to data from the Office for National Statistics, inheritances and gifts make up a substantial portion of wealth for older individuals, particularly those aged 55 to 641. However, wealth is also accumulated through earnings, investments, and savings over a lifetime. While inherited wealth is important, it's not accurate to say that most wealth in the UK is inherited. The distribution of wealth is influenced by a combination of factors, including income, savings, investments, and inheritance. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 26, 2024 10:03:24 GMT
How does it cost the country more? Because if it’s government money it becomes debt the longer a debt is unpaid the more interest is paid The reduction is in the amount the individuals repay their short-term loans and debts through Universal Credit (UC). The government does not take on extra debt because of it - it merely caps the amount that can be repaid through UC from 25% to 15%. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 26, 2024 10:10:16 GMT
Is most wealth inherited? And is this what this is actually about, the mass redistribution of other peoples money who apparently haven't worked for it, even though they have worked for it. In large part the money of the person who provides the jobs. Doesn't seem very business friendly. Grow the economy I keep hearing them say 😆 So you prefer trickle down economics? How’s that gone? Do we live in a fair society? Yes most wealth is inherited and passed down to the next generation. If that weren’t true we’d see far more social mobility. I believe in creating conditions that encourage people to build businesses not ones that make everyone think fuck this I'll get a job in the public sector, a job I can't be sacked from and take a decent pension and live a life of low public sector productivity. And most wealth is not inherited. That is bollox. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 26, 2024 10:15:38 GMT
So you prefer trickle down economics? How’s that gone? Do we live in a fair society? Yes most wealth is inherited and passed down to the next generation. If that weren’t true we’d see far more social mobility. I believe in creating conditions that encourage people to build businesses not ones that make everyone think fuck this I'll get a job in the public sector, a job I can't be sacked from and take a decent pension and live a life of low public sector productivity. And most wealth is not inherited. That is bollox. The tax system should not favour one group over another. All income should be taxed equally. That is Labour's position. Creating a conducive environment for businesses to flourish involves several key factors, namely Access to Capital, Regulatory Environment, Skilled Workforce, Infrastructure: Mentorship and Networking, Market Access, and a Supportive Culture. The last Conservative Mob decimated at least 4 of those. The tax system just needs to be fair, which is Labour's position. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 26, 2024 10:22:47 GMT
I believe in creating conditions that encourage people to build businesses not ones that make everyone think fuck this I'll get a job in the public sector, a job I can't be sacked from and take a decent pension and live a life of low public sector productivity. And most wealth is not inherited. That is bollox. The tax system should not favour one group over another. All income should be taxed equally. That is Labour's position. Creating a conducive environment for businesses to flourish involves several key factors, namely Access to Capital, Regulatory Environment, Skilled Workforce, Infrastructure: Mentorship and Networking, Market Access, and a Supportive Culture. The last Conservative Mob decimated at least 4 of those. The tax system just needs to be fair, which is Labour's position. And all that ever happens is the moderately successful get hammered whilst the major corporations carry on rigging the system with their political influence...nothing will change, just less incentive for the mad bastards that have the bollox to go out on their own to build something for themselves and others to benefit from. Its not how you grow an economy. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 26, 2024 10:26:50 GMT
So you prefer trickle down economics? How’s that gone? Do we live in a fair society? Yes most wealth is inherited and passed down to the next generation. If that weren’t true we’d see far more social mobility. I believe in creating conditions that encourage people to build businesses not ones that make everyone think fuck this I'll get a job in the public sector, a job I can't be sacked from and take a decent pension and live a life of low public sector productivity. And most wealth is not inherited. That is bollox. So how do you explain the lack of social mobility if wealth generally isn’t inherited? How does anyone save to buy a house worth over £500k without help from family considering the cost of living? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 26, 2024 10:31:11 GMT
The tax system should not favour one group over another. All income should be taxed equally. That is Labour's position. Creating a conducive environment for businesses to flourish involves several key factors, namely Access to Capital, Regulatory Environment, Skilled Workforce, Infrastructure: Mentorship and Networking, Market Access, and a Supportive Culture. The last Conservative Mob decimated at least 4 of those. The tax system just needs to be fair, which is Labour's position. And all that ever happens is the moderately successful get hammered whilst the major corporations carry on rigging the system with their political influence...nothing will change, just less incentive for the mad bastards that have the bollox to go out on their own to build something for themselves and others to benefit from. Its not how you grow an economy. Which is why taxing wealth and unearned income a bit more is a good idea, rather than putting the tax burden on workers. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 26, 2024 10:31:20 GMT
The tax system should not favour one group over another. All income should be taxed equally. That is Labour's position. Creating a conducive environment for businesses to flourish involves several key factors, namely Access to Capital, Regulatory Environment, Skilled Workforce, Infrastructure: Mentorship and Networking, Market Access, and a Supportive Culture. The last Conservative Mob decimated at least 4 of those. The tax system just needs to be fair, which is Labour's position. And all that ever happens is the moderately successful get hammered whilst the major corporations carry on rigging the system with their political influence...nothing will change, just less incentive for the mad bastards that have the bollox to go out on their own to build something for themselves and others to benefit from. Its not how you grow an economy. Presumably by "incentives" you mean the moderately rich should pay les tax as a proportion of their income (however it is obtained) than other moderately paid or poor people (or, perhaps, you just mean workers)? Presumably, when "moderately successful" people are taxed equally they are "hammered" whilst other working people are not. That's not how you build a fair society. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 26, 2024 10:34:13 GMT
I believe in creating conditions that encourage people to build businesses not ones that make everyone think fuck this I'll get a job in the public sector, a job I can't be sacked from and take a decent pension and live a life of low public sector productivity. And most wealth is not inherited. That is bollox. So how do you explain the lack of social mobility if wealth generally isn’t inherited? How does anyone save to buy a house worth over £500k without help from family considering the cost of living? The lack of social mobility can be attributed to several factors beyond just inherited wealth. While inherited wealth does play a role in perpetuating economic inequality, other factors also contribute to the lack of social mobility: Educational Inequality: Access to quality education is a major determinant of social mobility. Disparities in educational opportunities can limit the ability of individuals from lower-income backgrounds to achieve upward mobility. Economic Inequality: High levels of income (and tax) inequality can create barriers to social mobility. When wealth is concentrated among a small segment of the population, it can be harder for others to move up the economic ladder. Social Capital: Networks and connections can play a crucial role in career advancement. Those from wealthier backgrounds often have access to better social networks, which can provide opportunities that are not available to others. Labour Market Dynamics: Changes in the labour market, such as the decline of certain industries or the rise of gig economy jobs, can impact social mobility. Job security and wage growth are important factors in achieving upward mobility. Policy and Government Support: Government policies, such as tax structures, social welfare programs, and labour laws, can either support or hinder social mobility. Policies that promote equal opportunities and provide support to disadvantaged groups can help improve social mobility. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 26, 2024 10:36:13 GMT
I believe in creating conditions that encourage people to build businesses not ones that make everyone think fuck this I'll get a job in the public sector, a job I can't be sacked from and take a decent pension and live a life of low public sector productivity. And most wealth is not inherited. That is bollox. So how do you explain the lack of social mobility if wealth generally isn’t inherited? How does anyone save to buy a house worth over £500k without help from family considering the cost of living? The same way I did it? Like the same way lots of people do it. You seem to be of the belief people are inherently useless and need hand outs left and right to get on in the world...I'm of the opinion they generally don't. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 26, 2024 10:40:04 GMT
And all that ever happens is the moderately successful get hammered whilst the major corporations carry on rigging the system with their political influence...nothing will change, just less incentive for the mad bastards that have the bollox to go out on their own to build something for themselves and others to benefit from. Its not how you grow an economy. Which is why taxing wealth and unearned income a bit more is a good idea, rather than putting the tax burden on workers. Stopping corps like Netflix from paying 1m in tax on nigh on a 1bn in UK earnings I could get behind. Not hammering Joe soap and indirectly his 10 employees. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 26, 2024 10:43:15 GMT
Which is why taxing wealth and unearned income a bit more is a good idea, rather than putting the tax burden on workers. Stopping corps like Netflix from paying 1m in tax on nigh on a 1bn in UK earnings I could get behind. Not hammering Joe soap and indirectly his 10 employees. In which case you won't mind just paying your tax like working people do. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 26, 2024 10:44:13 GMT
And all that ever happens is the moderately successful get hammered whilst the major corporations carry on rigging the system with their political influence...nothing will change, just less incentive for the mad bastards that have the bollox to go out on their own to build something for themselves and others to benefit from. Its not how you grow an economy. Presumably by "incentives" you mean the moderately rich should pay les tax as a proportion of their income (however it is obtained) than other moderately paid or poor people (or, perhaps, you just mean workers)? Presumably, when "moderately successful" people are taxed equally they are "hammered" whilst other working people are not. That's not how you build a fair society. The incentive to take on the risk of leaving a job to go and create wealth and more jobs for other people. You do understand the risks involved in doing that surely. How you can lose your house and the shirt off your back? |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 26, 2024 10:45:21 GMT
Stopping corps like Netflix from paying 1m in tax on nigh on a 1bn in UK earnings I could get behind. Not hammering Joe soap and indirectly his 10 employees. In which case you won't mind just paying your tax like working people do. I do pay tax. A lot of tax. My conscience is very clear. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 26, 2024 10:46:42 GMT
So how do you explain the lack of social mobility if wealth generally isn’t inherited? How does anyone save to buy a house worth over £500k without help from family considering the cost of living? The same way I did it? Like the same way lots of people do it. You seem to be of the belief people are inherently useless and need hand outs left and right to get on in the world...I'm of the opinion they generally don't. I earn 6 figures and my wife earns waaay above average but under 6 figures. But there is no chance we can buy a house big enough for us and our 3 kids without them moving school. We don’t have £150k as a deposit and for sdlt. I am taxed more than Rishi Sunak in percentage terms. Others in my situation, many who earn far less than I do, can buy. Why? Family money. Income is almost irrelevant as a measure of wealth nowadays. It is all about inheritance and then capital gains. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 26, 2024 10:47:34 GMT
Which is why taxing wealth and unearned income a bit more is a good idea, rather than putting the tax burden on workers. Stopping corps like Netflix from paying 1m in tax on nigh on a 1bn in UK earnings I could get behind. Not hammering Joe soap and indirectly his 10 employees. I agree. I don’t think Joe will be hammered in any of Labour’s plans. |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Oct 26, 2024 10:55:29 GMT
So how do you explain the lack of social mobility if wealth generally isn’t inherited? How does anyone save to buy a house worth over £500k without help from family considering the cost of living? The lack of social mobility can be attributed to several factors beyond just inherited wealth. While inherited wealth does play a role in perpetuating economic inequality, other factors also contribute to the lack of social mobility: Educational Inequality: Access to quality education is a major determinant of social mobility. Disparities in educational opportunities can limit the ability of individuals from lower-income backgrounds to achieve upward mobility. Economic Inequality: High levels of income (and tax) inequality can create barriers to social mobility. When wealth is concentrated among a small segment of the population, it can be harder for others to move up the economic ladder. Social Capital: Networks and connections can play a crucial role in career advancement. Those from wealthier backgrounds often have access to better social networks, which can provide opportunities that are not available to others. Labour Market Dynamics: Changes in the labour market, such as the decline of certain industries or the rise of gig economy jobs, can impact social mobility. Job security and wage growth are important factors in achieving upward mobility. Policy and Government Support: Government policies, such as tax structures, social welfare programs, and labour laws, can either support or hinder social mobility. Policies that promote equal opportunities and provide support to disadvantaged groups can help improve social mobility. Our benefits system has, over many decades, contributed to the lack of social mobility imo. Back in the day and before decent benefits systems evolved, populations would move to follow job opportunities. Stoke on Trent is a perfect example of people moving from closing coal fields in North Wales & Somerset to work in an expending North Staffs coal & pottery industries. But with benefits systems evolving since WW2 people coul stay put without having the upheaval of chasing jobs. I’m in no way being judgemental because it is how it has evolved alongside the factors you have listed above. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 26, 2024 11:00:46 GMT
The same way I did it? Like the same way lots of people do it. You seem to be of the belief people are inherently useless and need hand outs left and right to get on in the world...I'm of the opinion they generally don't. I earn 6 figures and my wife earns waaay above average but under 6 figures. But there is no chance we can buy a house big enough for us and our 3 kids without them moving school. We don’t have £150k as a deposit and for sdlt. I am taxed more than Rishi Sunak in percentage terms. Others in my situation, many who earn far less than I do, can buy. Why? Family money. Income is almost irrelevant as a measure of wealth nowadays. It is all about inheritance and then capital gains. Move out of Highgate then chief 😆 |
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Post by thebet365 on Oct 26, 2024 11:01:30 GMT
Stopping corps like Netflix from paying 1m in tax on nigh on a 1bn in UK earnings I could get behind. Not hammering Joe soap and indirectly his 10 employees. I agree. I don’t think Joe will be hammered in any of Labour’s plans. If this mornings report turns out to be true that they're upping ER NI by upto 2 percentage points & lowering the cap at which it starts to get charged, that'll hammer Joe. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 26, 2024 11:08:22 GMT
I agree. I don’t think Joe will be hammered in any of Labour’s plans. If this mornings report turns out to be true that they're upping ER NI by upto 2 percentage points & lowering the cap at which it starts to get charged, that'll hammer Joe. 20% would hammer Joe. Not 2%. Or do we race to the bottom and have no tax and no public services in case it hammers Joe? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 26, 2024 11:09:14 GMT
I earn 6 figures and my wife earns waaay above average but under 6 figures. But there is no chance we can buy a house big enough for us and our 3 kids without them moving school. We don’t have £150k as a deposit and for sdlt. I am taxed more than Rishi Sunak in percentage terms. Others in my situation, many who earn far less than I do, can buy. Why? Family money. Income is almost irrelevant as a measure of wealth nowadays. It is all about inheritance and then capital gains. Move out of Highgate then chief 😆 Who can buy in such an area if 2 London lawyers can’t afford a family home? Those with inherited wealth can. |
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Post by thebet365 on Oct 26, 2024 11:17:52 GMT
If this mornings report turns out to be true that they're upping ER NI by upto 2 percentage points & lowering the cap at which it starts to get charged, that'll hammer Joe. 20% would hammer Joe. Not 2%. Or do we race to the bottom and have no tax and no public services in case it hammers Joe? A 2% rise will be a 14.5% increase on their NI Bill, and the cap being lowered will only increase that more. I'm not arguing about who and how much to tax, merely pointing out that a lot of working people are businesses with employees and their NI bill is about to go up an awful lot which is already high at 13.8% compared to employees 8%. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 26, 2024 11:22:56 GMT
Move out of Highgate then chief 😆 Who can buy in such an area if 2 London lawyers can’t afford a family home? Those with inherited wealth can. You're not a worker then either are you according to Kier's definition 🤷 |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 26, 2024 11:30:27 GMT
Move out of Highgate then chief 😆 Who can buy in such an area if 2 London lawyers can’t afford a family home? Those with inherited wealth can. You are being very specific about your own circumstances which I obviously know nothing about. But if 2 London lawyers can't afford to buy a house then I agree we are indeed fooked. But 2 London lawyers can afford to buy a house. I bought a flat in 1999 on my own with no handouts or inherited wealth. Although an unexpected redundancy ironically helped me boost my deposit savings. I did it up a bit and I sold it. And with the few quid I made I bought another one, then sold that and I did that a few times and got a nice house with a garden. Then I lost my job, again 🤦♂️ and sold my house to set my own business up. And now I rent a flat. And with a bit of luck I'll be buying my own house again real soon. So long as Reeves doesn't fuck me over. And most wealth is not inherited. Some people are lucky and inherit a lot of wealth others might get a few quid when their parents pass but a lot don't. Not sure what this mass inherited wealth is you talk about. |
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