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Post by phileetin on Oct 25, 2024 11:44:32 GMT
Where have I confirmed I don’t care about freedom of choice Unless you mean free movement I couldn’t give a flying fuck one way or the other on That was the democratic choice achieved by a mandate of the British people two tier could only dream of As for the hounding of the sick and disabled your well aware of the demonisation of such people conducted by successive governments Many thought this Labour government would be different so far there no better Keep proving my point on freedom and choice. I still don’t understand what Labour has done to hound disabled and sick people as you have said? What policy have they introduced? Or is your complaint that they are yet to undo 14 years of reduced funding for them? What’s more important, millionaire pensioners getting their £200 a week for heating, or sick and disabled people of all ages potentially benefiting from the saving made by not giving handouts to millionaires? Or do the millionaire pensioners need that money above the sick and disabled? you keep repeating the phrase millionaire pensioners /
presumably pensioners with a property they bought for 30k 50 years ago ?
or , people who have saved all their lives and got a bit of cash in excess of a 700k house .
how many millionaire pensioners do you think there are that don't fall into the categories above ?
I'm beginning to think Elon Musk was right .
Anyway , at least hopefully , the markets will correct things after fuckwits reeves , starmer and rayner fuck things up next week.
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Post by ravey123 on Oct 25, 2024 11:49:11 GMT
They say they want to plug the “black hole”. This is a black hole they knew about before their manifesto pledges. Then we hear they may re-introduce HS2A. At a possible cost of £40bn plus (my guess is due to pressure from the labour Madchester and Brum mayors) - here’s an idea. Totally scrap HS2A and there’s £40bn saved for you - this government lark is a doddle 👍 I said at the beginning HS2 was and is a white elephant that will hemmorage money. The one good thing that came out of lockdown was a change in working practices to include remote working. For me I would have invested the HS2 money into world leading broadband/internet speeds for EVERYONE - there’s true levelling up for you. There will be a few moaning if Hs2A doesn't happen and Stoke loses its Inter-City services as a result of no capacity through the Trent Valley. Remote working is being dropped by many companies. I travel from Stafford to Euston almost weekly for work at different times and on different weekdays and I’ve not seen a full train this year - this capacity issue seems to be a red herring to me. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 25, 2024 11:53:10 GMT
Keep proving my point on freedom and choice. I still don’t understand what Labour has done to hound disabled and sick people as you have said? What policy have they introduced? Or is your complaint that they are yet to undo 14 years of reduced funding for them? What’s more important, millionaire pensioners getting their £200 a week for heating, or sick and disabled people of all ages potentially benefiting from the saving made by not giving handouts to millionaires? Or do the millionaire pensioners need that money above the sick and disabled? you keep repeating the phrase millionaire pensioners / presumably pensioners with a property they bought for 30k 50 years ago ? or , people who have saved all their lives and got a bit of cash in excess of a 700k house . how many millionaire pensioners do you think there are that don't fall into the categories above ? I'm beginning to think Elon Musk was right . Anyway , at least hopefully , the markets will correct things after fuckwits reeves , starmer and rayner fuck things up next week.
Yes, there are over 3million millionaire pensioners. Between a third and a quarter of pensioners are millionaires. I am sure they don’t need £200 of state handouts as much as millions of others. Plenty of the other pensioners do need that money and should get it. |
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Post by ravey123 on Oct 25, 2024 12:05:26 GMT
you keep repeating the phrase millionaire pensioners / presumably pensioners with a property they bought for 30k 50 years ago ? or , people who have saved all their lives and got a bit of cash in excess of a 700k house . how many millionaire pensioners do you think there are that don't fall into the categories above ? I'm beginning to think Elon Musk was right . Anyway , at least hopefully , the markets will correct things after fuckwits reeves , starmer and rayner fuck things up next week.
Yes, there are over 3million millionaire pensioners. Between a third and a quarter of pensioners are millionaires. I am sure they don’t need £200 of state handouts as much as millions of others. Plenty of the other pensioners do need that money and should get it. If a pensioner is lucky enough to have bought a house 40 years ago that is now worth £1m it does not make them wealthy or have expendable income . Before you say they should downsize- why should they if all of their memories are in that brick and mortar. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 25, 2024 12:06:06 GMT
you keep repeating the phrase millionaire pensioners / presumably pensioners with a property they bought for 30k 50 years ago ? or , people who have saved all their lives and got a bit of cash in excess of a 700k house . how many millionaire pensioners do you think there are that don't fall into the categories above ? I'm beginning to think Elon Musk was right . Anyway , at least hopefully , the markets will correct things after fuckwits reeves , starmer and rayner fuck things up next week.
Yes, there are over 3million millionaire pensioners. Between a third and a quarter of pensioners are millionaires. I am sure they don’t need £200 of state handouts as much as millions of others. Plenty of the other pensioners do need that money and should get it. Labour should bring in a policy to CPO all these rich old fuckers houses at 50% market value and chuck em in a care home. Then sell em to young rich people and give the money made out to poorer people. That could work oggy 👍 |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 25, 2024 12:11:00 GMT
Yes, there are over 3million millionaire pensioners. Between a third and a quarter of pensioners are millionaires. I am sure they don’t need £200 of state handouts as much as millions of others. Plenty of the other pensioners do need that money and should get it. If a pensioner is lucky enough to have bought a house 40 years ago that is now worth £1m it does not make them wealthy or have expendable income . Before you say they should downsize- why should they if all of their memories are in that brick and mortar. It definitely makes them wealthy. If they wanted, they could sell up and live a life of extreme luxury for the rest of their days. A wonderfully privileged position to be in. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 25, 2024 12:12:01 GMT
Yes, there are over 3million millionaire pensioners. Between a third and a quarter of pensioners are millionaires. I am sure they don’t need £200 of state handouts as much as millions of others. Plenty of the other pensioners do need that money and should get it. Labour should bring in a policy to CPO all these rich old fuckers houses at 50% market value and chuck em in a care home. Then sell em to young rich people and give the money made out to poorer people. That could work oggy 👍 I don’t think that would work. Not paying them £200 a year though seems a reasonable compromise. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 25, 2024 12:17:00 GMT
Labour should bring in a policy to CPO all these rich old fuckers houses at 50% market value and chuck em in a care home. Then sell em to young rich people and give the money made out to poorer people. That could work oggy 👍 I don’t think that would work. Not paying them £200 a year though seems a reasonable compromise. Thought you'd be keen on that one to be fair 😜 |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 12:17:28 GMT
Yes, there are over 3million millionaire pensioners. Between a third and a quarter of pensioners are millionaires. I am sure they don’t need £200 of state handouts as much as millions of others. Plenty of the other pensioners do need that money and should get it. Labour should bring in a policy to CPO all these rich old fuckers houses at 50% market value and chuck em in a care home. Then sell em to young rich people and give the money made out to poorer people. That could work oggy 👍 Well, Labour's current stance on compulsory purchase orders (CPOs) focuses on acquiring land for public use, such as housing and infrastructure projects, at fair market value. The idea of purchasing homes at 50% market value and redistributing the proceeds is not part of their policy, and in either case it would likely face significant legal and ethical challenges, as it could be seen as unfairly targeting specific groups and undermining property rights. Labour are currently balancing the need for affordable housing with fair compensation for landowners which includes reforms to make it easier for local authorities to acquire land at lower prices to boost housebuilding. |
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Post by ravey123 on Oct 25, 2024 12:19:43 GMT
If a pensioner is lucky enough to have bought a house 40 years ago that is now worth £1m it does not make them wealthy or have expendable income . Before you say they should downsize- why should they if all of their memories are in that brick and mortar. It definitely makes them wealthy. If they wanted, they could sell up and live a life of extreme luxury for the rest of their days. A wonderfully privileged position to be in. So what if that makes them theoretically wealthy - doesn’t mean they have expendable income. To some memories are priceless. Like someone else has said should they have a CPO imposed on them and forced to live in a care home or downsize. They’ve earned their wealth. Unfortunately the elderly are an easy target. I agree the £200 should be means tested but not everyone who lives in a “valuable” house is wealthy. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 25, 2024 12:45:17 GMT
Labour should bring in a policy to CPO all these rich old fuckers houses at 50% market value and chuck em in a care home. Then sell em to young rich people and give the money made out to poorer people. That could work oggy 👍 Well, Labour's current stance on compulsory purchase orders (CPOs) focuses on acquiring land for public use, such as housing and infrastructure projects, at fair market value. The idea of purchasing homes at 50% market value and redistributing the proceeds is not part of their policy, and in either case it would likely face significant legal and ethical challenges, as it could be seen as unfairly targeting specific groups and undermining property rights. Labour are currently balancing the need for affordable housing with fair compensation for landowners which includes reforms to make it easier for local authorities to acquire land at lower prices to boost housebuilding. I was joking BTW. And that policy proposal is absolutely shyte. They want to create a race to the bottom for who will sell their land the cheapest. You'll have developments plonked left right and centre all over the shop with zero cohesion. Not exactly sustainable planning is it... |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 25, 2024 13:01:21 GMT
Well, Labour's current stance on compulsory purchase orders (CPOs) focuses on acquiring land for public use, such as housing and infrastructure projects, at fair market value. The idea of purchasing homes at 50% market value and redistributing the proceeds is not part of their policy, and in either case it would likely face significant legal and ethical challenges, as it could be seen as unfairly targeting specific groups and undermining property rights. Labour are currently balancing the need for affordable housing with fair compensation for landowners which includes reforms to make it easier for local authorities to acquire land at lower prices to boost housebuilding. I was joking BTW. And that policy proposal is absolutely shyte. They want to create a race to the bottom for who will sell their land the cheapest. You'll have developments plonked left right and centre all over the shop with zero cohesion. Not exactly sustainable planning is it... You can say you'll develop all you like, there isn't the capacity in the existing infrastructure to do this. |
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Post by sticky on Oct 25, 2024 13:46:29 GMT
I get the feeling it’ll be busy on here after the budget.
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Post by questionable on Oct 25, 2024 13:55:27 GMT
you keep repeating the phrase millionaire pensioners / presumably pensioners with a property they bought for 30k 50 years ago ? or , people who have saved all their lives and got a bit of cash in excess of a 700k house . how many millionaire pensioners do you think there are that don't fall into the categories above ? I'm beginning to think Elon Musk was right . Anyway , at least hopefully , the markets will correct things after fuckwits reeves , starmer and rayner fuck things up next week.
Yes, there are over 3million millionaire pensioners. Between a third and a quarter of pensioners are millionaires. I am sure they don’t need £200 of state handouts as much as millions of others. Plenty of the other pensioners do need that money and should get it. I’ve always said the same, I have a few aunts/uncles of pensionable age who go away for the winter to sunnier shores, one of which has a property abroad. I also think Child Benefit should be income based. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Oct 25, 2024 14:08:48 GMT
Yes, there are over 3million millionaire pensioners. Between a third and a quarter of pensioners are millionaires. I am sure they don’t need £200 of state handouts as much as millions of others. Plenty of the other pensioners do need that money and should get it. I’ve always said the same, I have a few aunts/uncles of pensionable age who go away for the winter to sunnier shores, one of which has a property abroad. I also think Child Benefit should be income based. Child benefit is income based. We don’t get it…… |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 25, 2024 14:43:09 GMT
It definitely makes them wealthy. If they wanted, they could sell up and live a life of extreme luxury for the rest of their days. A wonderfully privileged position to be in. So what if that makes them theoretically wealthy - doesn’t mean they have expendable income. To some memories are priceless. Like someone else has said should they have a CPO imposed on them and forced to live in a care home or downsize. They’ve earned their wealth. Unfortunately the elderly are an easy target. I agree the £200 should be means tested but not everyone who lives in a “valuable” house is wealthy. They are lot wealthier than someone who has to rent though and who cannot afford to buy. The real issue is for the pensioners on £18k a year and who don’t own their own property. They shouldn’t lose the benefit. I find it mental that means testing tends to look just at income and not capital. Capital is where the wealth is. Not income. |
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Post by elystokie on Oct 25, 2024 14:52:28 GMT
If you own a house worth half a million there's surely financial organisations that would advance a few grand and take a security on the property with the loan plus a fee to be paid back when you pass 🤔
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 25, 2024 15:14:07 GMT
I get the feeling it’ll be busy on here after the budget. It'll be like when there's a world title fight on in the boxing. All the experts will be out. |
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Post by ravey123 on Oct 25, 2024 15:16:37 GMT
If you own a house worth half a million there's surely financial organisations that would advance a few grand and take a security on the property with the loan plus a fee to be paid back when you pass 🤔 There probably are but all these “solutions” are just ways of covering up the shit show of an economy we now have that has been overseen by multiple governments of all persuasions whilst those who govern always come out of it smelling of roses - anyone heard of a broke or poor ex MP? Nobody plans for the long term and these are the results. |
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Post by ravey123 on Oct 25, 2024 15:17:58 GMT
If you own a house worth half a million there's surely financial organisations that would advance a few grand and take a security on the property with the loan plus a fee to be paid back when you pass 🤔 Why should they though if they’ve saved and made sacrifices in the past. What message does that give to others to save money. |
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Post by elystokie on Oct 25, 2024 15:39:09 GMT
If you own a house worth half a million there's surely financial organisations that would advance a few grand and take a security on the property with the loan plus a fee to be paid back when you pass 🤔 Why should they though if they’ve saved and made sacrifices in the past. What message does that give to others to save money. They've saved and made sacrifices to live in the house they own outright and not pay rent in their old age. Let's say they're £300 light a year, over 20 years that's 6 grand, just over 1% of a half million pound house. If it's a choice between other pensioners freezing or them losing one or two percent of money they're never going to see anyway I can't see a problem. In an ideal world there'd be no need to penny pinch obviously, but we've had 14 years of mismanagement. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 25, 2024 15:51:44 GMT
Why should they though if they’ve saved and made sacrifices in the past. What message does that give to others to save money. They've saved and made sacrifices to live in the house they own outright and not pay rent in their old age. Let's say they're £300 light a year, over 20 years that's 6 grand, just over 1% of a half million pound house. If it's a choice between other pensioners freezing or them losing one or two percent of money they're never going to see anyway I can't see a problem. In an ideal world there'd be no need to penny pinch obviously, but we've had 14 years of mismanagement. Yeah thats fair enough. Plenty of operators out there that can help release equity in a mortgage free house. My point was more about this idea of all these millionaires running about cos their house has become expensive since they've lived in it 20 or 30 years. Most home owning londoners are millionaires in that case. And why should Doris, now her husband has croaked it, have to sell her north london Town house where she's lived most of her adult life. But she may still be living a simple life on not that much money. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 25, 2024 16:20:06 GMT
Why do I get the feeling the contents of next weeks budget is going to be as much a surprise to Starmer as the rest of us?
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Post by elystokie on Oct 25, 2024 16:25:55 GMT
They've saved and made sacrifices to live in the house they own outright and not pay rent in their old age. Let's say they're £300 light a year, over 20 years that's 6 grand, just over 1% of a half million pound house. If it's a choice between other pensioners freezing or them losing one or two percent of money they're never going to see anyway I can't see a problem. In an ideal world there'd be no need to penny pinch obviously, but we've had 14 years of mismanagement. Yeah thats fair enough. Plenty of operators out there that can help release equity in a mortgage free house. My point was more about this idea of all these millionaires running about cos their house has become expensive since they've lived in it 20 or 30 years. Most home owning londoners are millionaires in that case. And why should Doris, now her husband has croaked it, have to sell her north london Town house where she's lived most of her adult life. But she may still be living a simple life on not that much money. I agree, she shouldn't, obviously with such vast equity she and others don't have to, maybe the government should set up a scheme that's run or approved/monitored by them and secured from scamming twats. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 25, 2024 16:37:56 GMT
Yeah thats fair enough. Plenty of operators out there that can help release equity in a mortgage free house. My point was more about this idea of all these millionaires running about cos their house has become expensive since they've lived in it 20 or 30 years. Most home owning londoners are millionaires in that case. And why should Doris, now her husband has croaked it, have to sell her north london Town house where she's lived most of her adult life. But she may still be living a simple life on not that much money. I agree, she shouldn't, obviously with such vast equity she and others don't have to, maybe the government should set up a scheme that's run or approved/monitored by them and secured from scamming twats. Equity release mortgages are heavily regulated nowadays. They never used to be though. I like the idea of a government scheme though specifically for the elderly in that situation. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 25, 2024 17:07:34 GMT
Yeah thats fair enough. Plenty of operators out there that can help release equity in a mortgage free house. My point was more about this idea of all these millionaires running about cos their house has become expensive since they've lived in it 20 or 30 years. Most home owning londoners are millionaires in that case. And why should Doris, now her husband has croaked it, have to sell her north london Town house where she's lived most of her adult life. But she may still be living a simple life on not that much money. I agree, she shouldn't, obviously with such vast equity she and others don't have to, maybe the government should set up a scheme that's run or approved/monitored by them and secured from scamming twats. That's the problem with these equity release outfits, most of them are con artists. Good suggestion about a govt based scheme if there isn't already one 👍 |
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Post by sticky on Oct 25, 2024 17:57:58 GMT
I remember my grandad used to moan about the elderly who haven’t saved a penny in their life, and get everything for free. Never really understood it at the time but it seems to pay not to save in todays world
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 25, 2024 18:29:18 GMT
I agree, she shouldn't, obviously with such vast equity she and others don't have to, maybe the government should set up a scheme that's run or approved/monitored by them and secured from scamming twats. Equity release mortgages are heavily regulated nowadays. They never used to be though. I like the idea of a government scheme though specifically for the elderly in that situation. Their was one under the last Labour government that channelled the money through local authorities to offer Equity release loans to private property owners to fund up to £30k of property repairs. It was called Kickstart. The local authority put a charge against the property to the value of that work as a percentage of the overall property value and if the price went up they gained from the increase. I reckon it got pulled in around 2010 I think. |
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Post by wannabee on Oct 25, 2024 18:40:37 GMT
I know plenty of pensioners that definitely don't need the WFA. Maybe there's some that have 'fallen into the gap' of not having enough money and not getting enough financial help to heat their home but I genuinely don't know any. I've got a mate that's complained about it, he goes on at least 2 holidays a year, his missus (who still works part time) goes on about 6, 3 of which are abroad. The heating is rarely off during the winter, they're not wealthy but they certainly won't be freezing over a couple of hundred quid. People earning 11k a year won't be getting it. I honestly wonder what world some people are living in when they try to justify this. I know for certain alot of them wouldn't be justifying it if the tories did it. People earning 11K will get WFA, anyone earning under £218.15 per week is eligible In addition anyone earning 11K is eligible for Pension Credit which is £18.15 per week equal to about £1K on top of the £200 WFA Since the announcement on 29 July and an advertising campaign to get people eligible to make a claim for Pension Credit there has been a huge upsurge in people making a claim about 75K people So not only will those 75,000 get the £200 WFA they will also get an extra £1,000 Pension Credit Benefits should be targeted at those most in need not given Universally to people that don't need it. I have said before that I believe the threshold is too low but it wouldn't surprise me if some adjustment was made to bring more into the net perhaps along the lines Stokeson first mentioned by tweaking Housing Benefit, we shall see. www.gov.uk/government/statistics/weekly-pension-credit-claims-received-from-1-april-2024-to-1-september-2024/weekly-pension-credit-claims-received-from-1-april-2024-to-1-september-2024 |
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Post by questionable on Oct 25, 2024 18:41:30 GMT
I’ve always said the same, I have a few aunts/uncles of pensionable age who go away for the winter to sunnier shores, one of which has a property abroad. I also think Child Benefit should be income based. Child benefit is income based. We don’t get it…… Unless I’m wrong don’t all families get a set amount per child for example £20 for the first child then £14, we used to get it but that was many years ago |
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