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Post by RedandWhite90 on Mar 22, 2024 13:29:02 GMT
But do you still think she needs to 'fuck right off' or is it stats for lefties that may be better being fucked off? I don't know what you want me to say other than that that I have. Do I trust her anymore than Jeremy Hunt? Nope.
I don't think that's too bad. Hunt looks like a political heavyweight in the current landscape.
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Post by gawa on Mar 23, 2024 10:49:09 GMT
More details on this And not the only constituency either
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 23, 2024 12:09:47 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 24, 2024 11:21:57 GMT
A man who doesn't respect democracy in his own party shouldn't be put in charge of the democratic process of an entire country.
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Post by gawa on Mar 25, 2024 10:00:15 GMT
This boyo cannot wait to further privatise our NHS. Can't stand him
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 25, 2024 10:37:38 GMT
This boyo cannot wait to further privatise our NHS. Can't stand him All he is saying is what currently goes on. We need private support until the NHS can cope on its own.
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Post by gawa on Mar 25, 2024 10:48:18 GMT
This boyo cannot wait to further privatise our NHS. Can't stand him All he is saying is what currently goes on. We need private support until the NHS can cope on its own. Privatisation isn't the solution and Wes advocates for it every other month. Not sure how Privatisation is the fix in any way. Heard many stories about NHS doctors also employed by private practices. Go through private practice and the wait to see said doctor is 1 month compared to 2 years. It helps bring down the waiting list for those who can afford private care and creates a 2 tier health system.
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Post by cvillestokie on Mar 25, 2024 11:13:42 GMT
A man who doesn't respect democracy in his own party shouldn't be put in charge of the democratic process of an entire country. It certainly doesn’t sound like he’d be interested in abolishing first past the post.
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Post by gawa on Mar 25, 2024 11:21:45 GMT
Julia Grace is a fantastic resource when it comes to NHS privatisation. She's a trained doctor and runs a non profit called EveryDoctor which has been campaigning against further privatisation as well as researching the effects of past privatisation and whom benefits from it.
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Post by adri2008 on Mar 25, 2024 11:24:46 GMT
All he is saying is what currently goes on. We need private support until the NHS can cope on its own. Privatisation isn't the solution and Wes advocates for it every other month. Not sure how Privatisation is the fix in any way. Heard many stories about NHS doctors also employed by private practices. Go through private practice and the wait to see said doctor is 1 month compared to 2 years. It helps bring down the waiting list for those who can afford private care and creates a 2 tier health system. I'd like Labour's focus to be on the NHS when it comes to power. This sacred cow attitude towards the service isn't helpful and only Labour has the goodwill to carry out reforms. The whole thing needs a rethink imo so that social care is an integral part to the service rather than bolted on. The use of IT needs to be seriously looked at too - I have worked with various trusts on this side of things and some of the internal systems are ancient, costly to maintain and highly inefficient but you've got mass inertia from staff who are used to doing things in a particular way.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 25, 2024 11:49:53 GMT
All he is saying is what currently goes on. We need private support until the NHS can cope on its own. Privatisation isn't the solution and Wes advocates for it every other month. Not sure how Privatisation is the fix in any way. Heard many stories about NHS doctors also employed by private practices. Go through private practice and the wait to see said doctor is 1 month compared to 2 years. It helps bring down the waiting list for those who can afford private care and creates a 2 tier health system. I completely agree. But the tories have decimated the system to a point that without support of the private system and their facilities, the waiting list will just explode. In my opinion we need to wean the NHS off having to rely on private assistance but private assistance is needed for the medium term until that is possible, and I think that is what Streeting is saying. He isn’t saying we need to replace the NHS with private health care system with insurers. I actually think we should be replicating the French model of health care.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 25, 2024 11:54:51 GMT
Julia Grace is a fantastic resource when it comes to NHS privatisation. She's a trained doctor and runs a non profit called EveryDoctor which has been campaigning against further privatisation as well as researching the effects of past privatisation and whom benefits from it. Read the last 3 paragraphs of the article: in the long run he doesn’t want anyone going private because he wants to make the NHS so good they don’t need to, he points out how good it was under the last Labour government (whilst earlier in the article distinguishing his vision from Blair’s about not having competition, which I agree with I think), and he ends by repeating he wants nobody to go private by making the nhs so good. I don’t see that as nonsense or trying to privatise.
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Post by gawa on Mar 25, 2024 12:00:04 GMT
Privatisation isn't the solution and Wes advocates for it every other month. Not sure how Privatisation is the fix in any way. Heard many stories about NHS doctors also employed by private practices. Go through private practice and the wait to see said doctor is 1 month compared to 2 years. It helps bring down the waiting list for those who can afford private care and creates a 2 tier health system. I completely agree. But the tories have decimated the system to a point that without support of the private system and their facilities, the waiting list will just explode. In my opinion we need to wean the NHS off having to rely on private assistance but private assistance is needed for the medium term until that is possible, and I think that is what Streeting is saying. He isn’t saying we need to replace the NHS with private health care system with insurers. I actually think we should be replicating the French model of health care. What's the French model out of interest? My worry is we very rarely take anything we privatise back into public ownership so how long are these contracts being signed for? Plus the private companies are hiring mostly staff already employed by NHS so who actually benefits? The people who can afford to go private. Yes it may bring a waiting list down by a month in a year. But it will bring the waiting list down for those who can afford to go private by maybe 18 months. So it still creates this 2 tier system. If there wasn't an ever increasing amount of private health care options then maybe the NHS would be prioritised more. I doubt Sunak or Johnson care because they can pay to skip the queues. If they didn't have that option then I'm sure their opinion would be much different. I struggle to think of any privatised service which has delivered more benefits long term over publicly owned. I suggest the same money tree used for covid and Ukraine is used for the NHS. Not more profiteering for political donors who want a return on investment.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 25, 2024 12:19:16 GMT
I completely agree. But the tories have decimated the system to a point that without support of the private system and their facilities, the waiting list will just explode. In my opinion we need to wean the NHS off having to rely on private assistance but private assistance is needed for the medium term until that is possible, and I think that is what Streeting is saying. He isn’t saying we need to replace the NHS with private health care system with insurers. I actually think we should be replicating the French model of health care. What's the French model out of interest? My worry is we very rarely take anything we privatise back into public ownership so how long are these contracts being signed for? Plus the private companies are hiring mostly staff already employed by NHS so who actually benefits? The people who can afford to go private. Yes it may bring a waiting list down by a month in a year. But it will bring the waiting list down for those who can afford to go private by maybe 18 months. So it still creates this 2 tier system. If there wasn't an ever increasing amount of private health care options then maybe the NHS would be prioritised more. I doubt Sunak or Johnson care because they can pay to skip the queues. If they didn't have that option then I'm sure their opinion would be much different. I struggle to think of any privatised service which has delivered more benefits long term over publicly owned. I suggest the same money tree used for covid and Ukraine is used for the NHS. Not more profiteering for political donors who want a return on investment. I agree with all your points. It is a really tough situation for the next government to inherit. The French model is really focused on prevention of ill health before treatment, something I know Labour want to focus on for our NHS which is very much last resort treatment service when people cannot manage. In France you pay a bit like NI here, then have insurance for extra costs on top (this is affordable because most funding comes from the government/from salaries and 95% of people have the extra insurance). My experience (my wife is half French) is that it is quick and cheap and easy to access, and you get perks, small things like probiotics are given with every antibiotic prescription for example. Women automatically get physio after giving birth, not only if they prolapse (which is the case here). Here is some info: www.commonwealthfund.org/international-health-policy-center/countries/franceeurohealthobservatory.who.int/countries/france
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 25, 2024 12:50:39 GMT
Privatisation isn't the solution and Wes advocates for it every other month. Not sure how Privatisation is the fix in any way. Heard many stories about NHS doctors also employed by private practices. Go through private practice and the wait to see said doctor is 1 month compared to 2 years. It helps bring down the waiting list for those who can afford private care and creates a 2 tier health system. I'd like Labour's focus to be on the NHS when it comes to power. This sacred cow attitude towards the service isn't helpful and only Labour has the goodwill to carry out reforms. The whole thing needs a rethink imo so that social care is an integral part to the service rather than bolted on. The use of IT needs to be seriously looked at too - I have worked with various trusts on this side of things and some of the internal systems are ancient, costly to maintain and highly inefficient but you've got mass inertia from staff who are used to doing things in a particular way. I was chatting with a lady in church yesterday and asked how her husband is getting on, who I know, but doesn't attend church. She told me he is still working for the NHS and his job is transferring documents from paper to computer. I said about time as I was always annoyed when I visit hospitals at the number of people walking about carrying documents from place to place. She said the reason he is doing it is because so many personal records get lost because staff don't put them back in the files, or put them in the wrong place and next time they are needed there is a search.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 25, 2024 13:01:17 GMT
Julia Grace is a fantastic resource when it comes to NHS privatisation. She's a trained doctor and runs a non profit called EveryDoctor which has been campaigning against further privatisation as well as researching the effects of past privatisation and whom benefits from it. Read the last 3 paragraphs of the article: in the long run he doesn’t want anyone going private because he wants to make the NHS so good they don’t need to, he points out how good it was under the last Labour government (whilst earlier in the article distinguishing his vision from Blair’s about not having competition, which I agree with I think), and he ends by repeating he wants nobody to go private by making the nhs so good. I don’t see that as nonsense or trying to privatise. Interesting that he's taken thousands in "donations" from Private Healthcare firms though....
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 25, 2024 15:07:31 GMT
Read the last 3 paragraphs of the article: in the long run he doesn’t want anyone going private because he wants to make the NHS so good they don’t need to, he points out how good it was under the last Labour government (whilst earlier in the article distinguishing his vision from Blair’s about not having competition, which I agree with I think), and he ends by repeating he wants nobody to go private by making the nhs so good. I don’t see that as nonsense or trying to privatise. Interesting that he's taken thousands in "donations" from Private Healthcare firms though.... I would be shocked if he hadn’t. Obviously private healthcare companies will be lobbying. It is a sad part of our politics. In your opinion should politicians refuse donations from any potentially interested parties? In which case, under our current model of politics, political parties wouldn’t survive and instead they would need to have owners. Who do you think those owners would be? Interested parties. Imagine Viscount Rothermere owning the Tory Party for example!?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 25, 2024 15:19:43 GMT
Interesting that he's taken thousands in "donations" from Private Healthcare firms though.... I would be shocked if he hadn’t. Obviously private healthcare companies will be lobbying. It is a sad part of our politics. In your opinion should politicians refuse donations from any potentially interested parties? In which case, under our current model of politics, political parties wouldn’t survive and instead they would need to have owners. Who do you think those owners would be? Interested parties. Imagine Viscount Rothermere owning the Tory Party for example!? Politicians of any colour should not be accepting donations from private companies. It should be outlawed.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 25, 2024 15:22:27 GMT
I would be shocked if he hadn’t. Obviously private healthcare companies will be lobbying. It is a sad part of our politics. In your opinion should politicians refuse donations from any potentially interested parties? In which case, under our current model of politics, political parties wouldn’t survive and instead they would need to have owners. Who do you think those owners would be? Interested parties. Imagine Viscount Rothermere owning the Tory Party for example!? Politicians of any colour should not be accepting donations from private companies. It should be outlawed. In which case we would need to fund political parties from tax funds.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 25, 2024 15:25:00 GMT
Politicians of any colour should not be accepting donations from private companies. It should be outlawed. In which case we would need to fund political parties from tax funds. No problem with that.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 25, 2024 15:37:12 GMT
In which case we would need to fund political parties from tax funds. No problem with that. Me too. But until the rules are changed you cannot expect politicians to refuse donations without very good reason.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 25, 2024 15:49:13 GMT
Me too. But until the rules are changed you cannot expect politicians to refuse donations without very good reason. Sad but true.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 25, 2024 19:01:45 GMT
Interesting that he's taken thousands in "donations" from Private Healthcare firms though.... I would be shocked if he hadn’t. Obviously private healthcare companies will be lobbying. It is a sad part of our politics. In your opinion should politicians refuse donations from any potentially interested parties? In which case, under our current model of politics, political parties wouldn’t survive and instead they would need to have owners. Who do you think those owners would be? Interested parties. Imagine Viscount Rothermere owning the Tory Party for example!? I know it’s radical but the party of the working classes could use the money raised from Trade Unions instead of funding from the private health or betting industry?
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 25, 2024 19:06:21 GMT
I would be shocked if he hadn’t. Obviously private healthcare companies will be lobbying. It is a sad part of our politics. In your opinion should politicians refuse donations from any potentially interested parties? In which case, under our current model of politics, political parties wouldn’t survive and instead they would need to have owners. Who do you think those owners would be? Interested parties. Imagine Viscount Rothermere owning the Tory Party for example!? I know it’s radical but the party of the working classes could use the money raised from Trade Unions instead of funding from the private health or betting industry? From Full Fact: “During the 2019 general election campaign, the Labour Party registered donations of £5.4 million, of which just over £5 million came from trade unions. It also received £160,000 from individuals and £200,000 from companies. By comparison, the Conservative Party registered donations of £19.3 million, of which £13.2 million came from individuals and £5.9 million came from companies. No funding was received from trade unions. “ According to this: amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/07/labour-boosts-election-war-chest-with-record-quarter-for-donationsLabour now get more donations from elsewhere than from unions. Perhaps it will mean they can have a fairer fight for power than in 2019. As Huddy and I agreed above, donations should be prohibited and they should receive the same amount of funding from the Treasury.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 25, 2024 19:15:41 GMT
I know it’s radical but the party of the working classes could use the money raised from Trade Unions instead of funding from the private health or betting industry? From Full Fact: “During the 2019 general election campaign, the Labour Party registered donations of £5.4 million, of which just over £5 million came from trade unions. It also received £160,000 from individuals and £200,000 from companies. By comparison, the Conservative Party registered donations of £19.3 million, of which £13.2 million came from individuals and £5.9 million came from companies. No funding was received from trade unions. “ According to this: amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/07/labour-boosts-election-war-chest-with-record-quarter-for-donationsLabour now get more donations from elsewhere than from unions. Perhaps it will mean they can have a fairer fight for power than in 2019. As Huddy and I agreed above, donations should be prohibited and they should receive the same amount of funding from the Treasury. Does that apply to every party?
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 27, 2024 7:46:58 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 27, 2024 10:12:35 GMT
I posted this on the Tory thread, but it should be here:
Labour has announced it would regulate to prevent bonuses being paid to polluting water company bosses. Another dividing line between Labour and Tories. A good announcement by Starmer. Once again where the Lib Dem’s lead with good policy, the others slowly catch up and follow.
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Post by phileetin on Mar 27, 2024 14:10:19 GMT
I would be shocked if he hadn’t. Obviously private healthcare companies will be lobbying. It is a sad part of our politics. In your opinion should politicians refuse donations from any potentially interested parties? In which case, under our current model of politics, political parties wouldn’t survive and instead they would need to have owners. Who do you think those owners would be? Interested parties. Imagine Viscount Rothermere owning the Tory Party for example!? Politicians of any colour should not be accepting donations from private companies. It should be outlawed.
what about unions
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 27, 2024 14:24:59 GMT
Politicians of any colour should not be accepting donations from private companies. It should be outlawed. what about unions Sorry what about unions?
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Post by Veritas on Mar 27, 2024 14:27:09 GMT
Politicians of any colour should not be accepting donations from private companies. It should be outlawed. what about unions I agree parties should be at least part publicly funded
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