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Post by adi on Mar 8, 2020 0:08:35 GMT
Yet people don’t rate him...
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Post by callas12 on Mar 8, 2020 0:08:46 GMT
Do you type “Gouranga” at the end of every post or are you using some sort of signature feature? Often wondered. I type it at the end of every post, it goes back to the old Rivals Board and basically means - be happy, all the posters who used to call me a miserable twat are to blame for this - and for me painting it on motorway bridges throughout the country  Gouranga.  The old rivals board! They were the days, remember being gutted when it initially moved to this, the current proboards forum style! But reckon if it went back to the Rivals style Id probably miss this forum set up, all about what your used to I'm guessing! Just checked my join up date on to the pro boards set up & it was 2004 so some time ago now.. |
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Post by stokecitytalke on Mar 8, 2020 8:48:45 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 8, 2020 8:51:34 GMT
Yet people don’t rate him... I'm not a fan. My little lad likes him and always has. He goes missing far to often for my liking. Being a good finisher is his one redeeming feature. I remain unconvinced and will be very interested to see how he fares without Allen by his side. |
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Post by adi on Mar 8, 2020 8:54:05 GMT
Yet people don’t rate him... I'm not a fan. My little lad likes him and always has. He goes missing far to often for my liking. Being a good finisher is his one redeeming feature. I remain unconvinced and will be very interested to see how he fares without Allen by his side. If he keeps popping the ball in the oppo net then he can go missing a bit for me. Just need a player to do the mopping up alongside which Allen has done brilliantly. And as you say, let’s see how much we will miss Allen now, I think a few will be eating humble pie. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 8, 2020 8:57:05 GMT
I'm not a fan. My little lad likes him and always has. He goes missing far to often for my liking. Being a good finisher is his one redeeming feature. I remain unconvinced and will be very interested to see how he fares without Allen by his side. If he keeps popping the ball in the oppo net then he can go missing a bit for me. Just need a player to do the mopping up alongside which Allen has done brilliantly. And as you say, let’s see how much we will miss Allen now, I think a few will be eating humble pie. I'll be one such person. Don't rate allen and never have. His injury means we wont be able to sell him in the summer which is a gutter. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 8, 2020 8:57:27 GMT
www.signal1.co.uk/news/local-sport/allen-out-for-the-season-and-set-to-miss-euro-2020/"Clucas has been brilliant, no doubt about that. All types of goals but his all-round play, his quality on the ball, his ability to win second ball, win balls in the air, everything..." "I didn't know Sam much really as a player when I came in, but I very quickly realised I had a top-class player on my hands - and he's proven to be that" "We'll need a lot from him for the rest of the season in Joe's absence"
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Post by adi on Mar 8, 2020 9:41:56 GMT
If he keeps popping the ball in the oppo net then he can go missing a bit for me. Just need a player to do the mopping up alongside which Allen has done brilliantly. And as you say, let’s see how much we will miss Allen now, I think a few will be eating humble pie. I'll be one such person. Don't rate allen and never have. His injury means we wont be able to sell him in the summer which is a gutter. There is that, unless someone wants to take a punt, and if they do we’ll see even less than the £10-£12mil he’s probably worth in the current market. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 8, 2020 14:15:52 GMT
Yeah I didn't like his reaction to the fans last season and thought he was pretty crap. But this season he's been very good and arguably player of the season. Especially if he gets a couple more.
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Post by adi on Mar 8, 2020 14:35:12 GMT
Yes they have. Good assist return is always welcome. As he should get by putting 10 toss crosses in for 1 good one. Thank god he was, good assist return 👍 |
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Post by nott1 on Mar 8, 2020 15:25:32 GMT
Yet people don’t rate him... He's too good for us!  |
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 8, 2020 19:36:38 GMT
www.signal1.co.uk/news/local-sport/allen-out-for-the-season-and-set-to-miss-euro-2020/"Clucas has been brilliant, no doubt about that. All types of goals but his all-round play, his quality on the ball, his ability to win second ball, win balls in the air, everything..." "I didn't know Sam much really as a player when I came in, but I very quickly realised I had a top-class player on my hands - and he's proven to be that" "We'll need a lot from him for the rest of the season in Joe's absence" I’ve noticed Michael says “there’s no doubt about that” quite a lot. |
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Post by franklin66 on Mar 8, 2020 19:47:06 GMT
He's been my pots and throughly deserved.
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Post by skip on Mar 8, 2020 20:20:29 GMT
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Mar 9, 2020 8:17:51 GMT
He has definitely been guilty of going missing in games in the past. BUT the more he plays the more he seems to become influential in games.
Defensively he has started to improve and puts in a few tackles as well as tracking back.
His finishing is absolute quality,
I have the feeling he will be even better next season. Most games he is now contributing and doesnt go missing as in the past
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Post by unknown182 on Mar 9, 2020 10:19:32 GMT
Considering he's played a more deeper role for much of the season that's a decent return.
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Post by tachyon on Mar 11, 2020 9:32:57 GMT
Great performance by Clucas. Neck & neck with McClean as our Stoke player of the season.....but there's good reason to doubt that he can repeat a double figure goal haul next season.
Firstly, he'll be 30 by the second month of next season and players generally begin to decline once they hit that landmark.
Secondly, he's scored 10 goals from a cumulative chance quality and quantity of just 5.6 expected goals.
If an average finisher was presented with those chances they would score 10 or more just 4% of the time.
So you either run with the premise that Clucas has suddenly become one of the league's best finishers (and there's ample evidence that the difference in finishing ability between professional players is tiny) or you accept that he's just had a hot spell that will eventually cool off.
A comparable period in his career was 2015/16 in the Championship with Hull, when he was in his peak years, and scored 6 from an xG of 8.8.
That season he attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 4.5 games, but he underperformed in actual goals.
This season he's so far attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 6 and a bit games (note the decline), but he's overperformed in actaul goals.
xG correlates better with future performance than actual goals.
If he plays every fixture next season, he'll likely score 8 goals.
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Post by adi on Mar 11, 2020 11:24:32 GMT
Great performance by Clucas. Neck & neck with McClean as our Stoke player of the season.....but there's good reason to doubt that he can repeat a double figure goal haul next season. Firstly, he'll be 30 by the second month of next season and players generally begin to decline once they hit that landmark. Secondly, he's scored 10 goals from a cumulative chance quality and quantity of just 5.6 expected goals. If an average finisher was presented with those chances they would score 10 or more just 4% of the time. So you either run with the premise that Clucas has suddenly become one of the league's best finishers (and there's ample evidence that the difference in finishing ability between professional players is tiny) or you accept that he's just had a hot spell that will eventually cool off. A comparable period in his career was 2015/16 in the Championship with Hull, when he was in his peak years, and scored 6 from an xG of 8.8. That season he attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 4.5 games, but he underperformed in actual goals. This season he's so far attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 6 and a bit games (note the decline), but he's overperformed in actaul goals. xG correlates better with future performance than actual goals. If he plays every fixture next season, he'll likely score 8 goals. A midfielder on 8 goals is good enough. We just need to keep Campbell fit as he looks a natural finisher, maybe complimented with another forward who is mobile. If Powell stays fit then we could be scoring for fun. Next stop is a keeper and a few defenders... |
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Post by wrighter on Mar 11, 2020 12:10:29 GMT
never understood some on here dislikes of Clucas
Gets goals, gives 100% what more to like ?
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Post by lordb on Mar 11, 2020 12:18:47 GMT
Great performance by Clucas. Neck & neck with McClean as our Stoke player of the season.....but there's good reason to doubt that he can repeat a double figure goal haul next season. Firstly, he'll be 30 by the second month of next season and players generally begin to decline once they hit that landmark. Secondly, he's scored 10 goals from a cumulative chance quality and quantity of just 5.6 expected goals. If an average finisher was presented with those chances they would score 10 or more just 4% of the time. So you either run with the premise that Clucas has suddenly become one of the league's best finishers (and there's ample evidence that the difference in finishing ability between professional players is tiny) or you accept that he's just had a hot spell that will eventually cool off. A comparable period in his career was 2015/16 in the Championship with Hull, when he was in his peak years, and scored 6 from an xG of 8.8. That season he attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 4.5 games, but he underperformed in actual goals. This season he's so far attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 6 and a bit games (note the decline), but he's overperformed in actaul goals. xG correlates better with future performance than actual goals. If he plays every fixture next season, he'll likely score 8 goals. I would suggest his age helps him as he now shows more composure re goals scoring opportunities than when he was younger |
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Post by clarkeda on Mar 11, 2020 12:31:52 GMT
Great performance by Clucas. Neck & neck with McClean as our Stoke player of the season.....but there's good reason to doubt that he can repeat a double figure goal haul next season. Firstly, he'll be 30 by the second month of next season and players generally begin to decline once they hit that landmark. Secondly, he's scored 10 goals from a cumulative chance quality and quantity of just 5.6 expected goals. If an average finisher was presented with those chances they would score 10 or more just 4% of the time. So you either run with the premise that Clucas has suddenly become one of the league's best finishers (and there's ample evidence that the difference in finishing ability between professional players is tiny) or you accept that he's just had a hot spell that will eventually cool off. A comparable period in his career was 2015/16 in the Championship with Hull, when he was in his peak years, and scored 6 from an xG of 8.8. That season he attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 4.5 games, but he underperformed in actual goals. This season he's so far attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 6 and a bit games (note the decline), but he's overperformed in actaul goals. xG correlates better with future performance than actual goals. If he plays every fixture next season, he'll likely score 8 goals. I would suggest his age helps him as he now shows more composure re goals scoring opportunities than when he was younger I think this. I’d much prefer a 30 YO clucas shooting from the edge of the box than a 28 YO Tom Ince. |
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Post by markby on Mar 11, 2020 12:52:11 GMT
there's ample evidence that the difference in finishing ability between professional players is tiny Apologies if I'm dragging this thread off topic, but can this be broken down into different types of finish?
I only ask, because NI had a striker called David Healy, a journeyman as a club player, but outstanding when it came to playing for his country eg 35 goals in a 70 cap run for an otherwise poor team.
He had one particular skill at which he was especially adept, one-on-ones with the keeper. He rarely hit it first time and he NEVER tried to go round the keeper (no pace).
Instead he invariably took it up to him, then stroked it home before the keeper had time to react to where Healy was placing it. Sometimes he put it to the keeper's right, sometimes his left, or often through his legs (nutmeg) as the keeper "made himself big".
I think what makes this skill distinctive is that with most goals, the hard part is getting away from defenders and into a goalscoring position; thereafter it's usually a straightforward matter of passing the ball into the net.
But with a one-on-one, the striker still has decisions to make (early/up to/round), which causes some players to freeze ("Theo Walcott Syndrome" as it's sometimes known), esp if the keeper doesn't commit himself early and effectively make the striker's decision for him (Peter Schmeichel was especially good at this).
Or is this just my imagination/faulty memory?
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Post by potterspele on Mar 11, 2020 13:34:27 GMT
Great performance by Clucas. Neck & neck with McClean as our Stoke player of the season.....but there's good reason to doubt that he can repeat a double figure goal haul next season. Firstly, he'll be 30 by the second month of next season and players generally begin to decline once they hit that landmark. Secondly, he's scored 10 goals from a cumulative chance quality and quantity of just 5.6 expected goals. If an average finisher was presented with those chances they would score 10 or more just 4% of the time. So you either run with the premise that Clucas has suddenly become one of the league's best finishers (and there's ample evidence that the difference in finishing ability between professional players is tiny) or you accept that he's just had a hot spell that will eventually cool off. A comparable period in his career was 2015/16 in the Championship with Hull, when he was in his peak years, and scored 6 from an xG of 8.8. That season he attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 4.5 games, but he underperformed in actual goals. This season he's so far attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 6 and a bit games (note the decline), but he's overperformed in actaul goals. xG correlates better with future performance than actual goals. If he plays every fixture next season, he'll likely score 8 goals. How much does his barnsley half way line goal skew the xg? I'm thinking that will have a very small xg so may have a statistically significant bearing on the total. |
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Post by walrus on Mar 11, 2020 14:06:51 GMT
Great performance by Clucas. Neck & neck with McClean as our Stoke player of the season.....but there's good reason to doubt that he can repeat a double figure goal haul next season. Firstly, he'll be 30 by the second month of next season and players generally begin to decline once they hit that landmark. Secondly, he's scored 10 goals from a cumulative chance quality and quantity of just 5.6 expected goals. If an average finisher was presented with those chances they would score 10 or more just 4% of the time. So you either run with the premise that Clucas has suddenly become one of the league's best finishers (and there's ample evidence that the difference in finishing ability between professional players is tiny) or you accept that he's just had a hot spell that will eventually cool off. A comparable period in his career was 2015/16 in the Championship with Hull, when he was in his peak years, and scored 6 from an xG of 8.8. That season he attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 4.5 games, but he underperformed in actual goals. This season he's so far attempted a cumulative total of one xG every 6 and a bit games (note the decline), but he's overperformed in actaul goals. xG correlates better with future performance than actual goals. If he plays every fixture next season, he'll likely score 8 goals. How much does his barnsley half way line goal skew the xg? I'm thinking that will have a very small xg so may have a statistically significant bearing on the total. He’s scored three goals this season that will have had a very low probability of coming off. Both his goals away at Barnsley and his one at home v Swansea were all crackers from outside the box. His goal at home v Bristol City was also an excellent first time strike into the top corner. Expected goals has a value in judging how well a team is performing but it’s less impactful as a guide to individual players. Clucas is unusually good at shooting from range. Even when he doesn’t score he tends to at least work the keeper. It’s easy to view one goal as a fluke but when a player consistently outperforms others in terms of shooting from range there comes a point when you have to just accept that he’s really good at that particular skill. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 15:39:48 GMT
Granted , Campbell couldn't get a game under NJ , and has shown no problem hitting the back of the net , since MoN gave him his opportunity .
But half the season was gone by then
We haven't had a goal scorer
And our midfield , especially Clucas and McClean have weighed in with ( just !) Enough goals to get us out of jail .
We would have been toast without them
Has to be Clucas or McClean , player of the season , for me
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Post by femark on Mar 11, 2020 15:43:21 GMT
When he's on the ball he's a good player, but I cant help but notice that he goes missing for large periods of games. You can understand Strikers going missing but it's unusual for a CM to do the same.
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Post by apb1 on Mar 11, 2020 19:08:26 GMT
I get irritated by some players sometimes. But I’m not going to carry on blarting when they get as many goals as Cluko has. In a good team next season he could be our new Cresswell. Only with some goals from outside the six yard box 🙂
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Post by mikeoxlong on Mar 11, 2020 20:10:14 GMT
I am not really interested in stats, because they can be used to suit whatever you want them to. For instance, does this include the period at Hull he was playing at left back, yet still scored goals. At Swansea he was constantly played out of position. Last year he played while still recovering from injury with no pre-season. This season has played in a variety of positions on the left, including 10? games with a broken foot.
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Post by tachyon on Mar 12, 2020 9:00:48 GMT
I am not really interested in stats, because they can be used to suit whatever you want them to. For instance, does this include the period at Hull he was playing at left back, yet still scored goals. At Swansea he was constantly played out of position. Last year he played while still recovering from injury with no pre-season. This season has played in a variety of positions on the left, including 10? games with a broken foot. Includes like for like. Championship games as a midfielder. 10 games with a broken foot?? Seems to have escaped the attention of the mainstream sports media. |
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Post by tachyon on Mar 12, 2020 9:02:51 GMT
there's ample evidence that the difference in finishing ability between professional players is tiny Apologies if I'm dragging this thread off topic, but can this be broken down into different types of finish? I only ask, because NI had a striker called David Healy, a journeyman as a club player, but outstanding when it came to playing for his country eg 35 goals in a 70 cap run for an otherwise poor team. He had one particular skill at which he was especially adept, one-on-ones with the keeper. He rarely hit it first time and he NEVER tried to go round the keeper (no pace). Instead he invariably took it up to him, then stroked it home before the keeper had time to react to where Healy was placing it. Sometimes he put it to the keeper's right, sometimes his left, or often through his legs (nutmeg) as the keeper "made himself big". I think what makes this skill distinctive is that with most goals, the hard part is getting away from defenders and into a goalscoring position; thereafter it's usually a straightforward matter of passing the ball into the net. But with a one-on-one, the striker still has decisions to make (early/up to/round), which causes some players to freeze ("Theo Walcott Syndrome" as it's sometimes known), esp if the keeper doesn't commit himself early and effectively make the striker's decision for him (Peter Schmeichel was especially good at this). Or is this just my imagination/faulty memory?
Remember Healy well, Leeds? 1 on 1 tend to be high quality chances, so a relatively high proportion will be converted. I don't have Healy data, but shrinking your sample size to account for specific types of chances will inevitably lead you to find players who score more than you'd expect. But the act of reducing the sample size makes it more difficult to discount simple random variation, (rather than a skill differential) as being the cause of this over-performance. |
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