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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 10, 2022 17:28:06 GMT
I don’t think any of the measures taken to stop the spread actually stopped the spread, just slowed it down a bit. Lockdowns were as stupid an idea as were possible and is responsible, in the main, for many of the crisis’ we now face and are likely to for years to come. I think you're right about the slowing it down. But IMO even just slowing it down helped - it gave time for vaccines. And it meant we didn't run out of hospital beds everywhere. The gf said they lost a lot of patients in her hospital because they needed more oxygen but couldn't be given it because they were out of staff and kit. Looking at the US data, states that did quite a bit to slow it down have seen quite a bit less death than states that did less to slow it down. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Aug 10, 2022 17:29:22 GMT
No. The way the world/politicians responded to the virus is the fuck up. How can you not see that? How much more obvious does it need to be and how bad does it have to get until you see it. Ok you believe that, I just don't see the evidence. I just don't accept someone saying "it's obvious" as evidence, because I think it's obvious that loads more deaths and a collapsing NHS would be awful for the economy now too. It'll take more time for us to gather the evidence and I might change my mind. But the NHS collapsed anyway?! It's literally as broken as it can possibly be. It's prioritising of covid over the past couple of years has been absolutely unforgivable. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 10, 2022 17:41:30 GMT
Ok you believe that, I just don't see the evidence. I just don't accept someone saying "it's obvious" as evidence, because I think it's obvious that loads more deaths and a collapsing NHS would be awful for the economy now too. It'll take more time for us to gather the evidence and I might change my mind. But the NHS collapsed anyway?! It's literally as broken as it can possibly be. It's prioritising of covid over the past couple of years has been absolutely unforgivable. Guess why we had no staff to man the mobile hospitals that Johnson was so keen to congratulate his government over? The mobile hospitals that could have separated thousands of Covid patients from the day to day NHS operation and saves many lives. I’ll give you a clue it starts with A and rhymes with prosperity…… |
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 10, 2022 17:55:59 GMT
Ok you believe that, I just don't see the evidence. I just don't accept someone saying "it's obvious" as evidence, because I think it's obvious that loads more deaths and a collapsing NHS would be awful for the economy now too. It'll take more time for us to gather the evidence and I might change my mind. But the NHS collapsed anyway?! It's literally as broken as it can possibly be. It's prioritising of covid over the past couple of years has been absolutely unforgivable. You believe this is absolutely the worst the NHS could be? |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 10, 2022 17:57:42 GMT
But the NHS collapsed anyway?! It's literally as broken as it can possibly be. It's prioritising of covid over the past couple of years has been absolutely unforgivable. You believe this is absolutely the worst the NHS could be? It’s a complete shambles at the top that’s for sure |
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Post by knype on Aug 11, 2022 5:03:58 GMT
So global covid policy isn't the main reason for the economical crash facing the planet? Just a weird coincidence right? The virus is the cause of this fuckup. I'm not convinced that "let it burn" would have made the economy better. The best outcome would have been everyone listening, wearing masks and PPE, socially distancing where possible, taking the vaccines asal etc and letting business go on as close to normal as possible without the government having to make it into rules.  Dear me, you still banging the mask drum....  |
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Post by henry on Aug 11, 2022 6:41:08 GMT
The true cost of shutting down the NHS and GP surgeries is coming home to roost. People now terminally ill with cancer that could have been treated. Last nights Newsnight report was heartbreaking.
The even sadder part is that this was predicted to happen.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 12, 2022 12:09:48 GMT
While it’s clear that the vaccine isn’t some WEF plot to depopulate the world and it has saved lives it also seems clear now that it does have adverse effects on a large number of people.
A question that has been perturbing me for ages now is around all the medical doctors who initially came out and said it was totally safe, how were they able to make that assessment?
What I mean is at that stage Pfizer hadn’t released trial data, so what empirical data were they using to unequivocally state that?
How were they in a position to make that assessment, or were they merely relying on the CDC’s pronouncements. (Who themselves got many calls around Corona wrong)
I think the medical communities blanket acceptance of the narrative has done untold damage to their credibility and potentially adversely affected for future required vaccines.
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Post by noustie on Aug 12, 2022 12:39:12 GMT
While it’s clear that the vaccine isn’t some WEF plot to depopulate the world and it has saved lives it also seems clear now that it does have adverse effects on a large number of people. A question that has been perturbing me for ages now is around all the medical doctors who initially came out and said it was totally safe, how were they able to make that assessment? What I mean is at that stage Pfizer hadn’t released trial data, so what empirical data were they using to unequivocally state that? How were they in a position to make that assessment, or were they merely relying on the CDC’s pronouncements. (Who themselves got many calls around Corona wrong) I think the medical communities blanket acceptance of the narrative has done untold damage to their credibility and potentially adversely affected for future required vaccines. Might just be me or maybe the focus of the media has changed but there seems to be a drop in medical emergencies at sporting events too that nobody is caring to offer explanation of. |
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Post by xchpotter on Aug 12, 2022 15:18:01 GMT
The true cost of shutting down the NHS and GP surgeries is coming home to roost. People now terminally ill with cancer that could have been treated. Last nights Newsnight report was heartbreaking. The even sadder part is that this was predicted to happen. Agreed, I think that is the biggest scandal out of this whole business. A mate of mine went into a hospice today and I wonder what would've been the outcome had they had better access to cancer diagnosis and treatment. On the topic of GPs, they've really taken the piss with Covid and even now my surgery is using it an an excuse to avoid in person appointments, it's disgraceful but then we can't critic doctors and the NHS can we? |
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Aug 12, 2022 21:16:10 GMT
I don’t think any of the measures taken to stop the spread actually stopped the spread, just slowed it down a bit. Lockdowns were as stupid an idea as were possible and is responsible, in the main, for many of the crisis’ we now face and are likely to for years to come. I think you're right about the slowing it down. But IMO even just slowing it down helped - it gave time for vaccines. And it meant we didn't run out of hospital beds everywhere. The gf said they lost a lot of patients in her hospital because they needed more oxygen but couldn't be given it because they were out of staff and kit. Looking at the US data, states that did quite a bit to slow it down have seen quite a bit less death than states that did less to slow it down. Where does gf work, and what does he do in that hospital, ?? |
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Post by noustie on Aug 12, 2022 21:26:17 GMT
The true cost of shutting down the NHS and GP surgeries is coming home to roost. People now terminally ill with cancer that could have been treated. Last nights Newsnight report was heartbreaking. The even sadder part is that this was predicted to happen. Agreed, I think that is the biggest scandal out of this whole business. A mate of mine went into a hospice today and I wonder what would've been the outcome had they had better access to cancer diagnosis and treatment. On the topic of GPs, they've really taken the piss with Covid and even now my surgery is using it an an excuse to avoid in person appointments, it's disgraceful but then we can't critic doctors and the NHS can we? If the government offered incentivised bonuses like GPs got for the vaccine to cancer diagnosis the bastards would have their fingers up arses on a Saturday and half day Sunday no question. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Aug 12, 2022 21:33:48 GMT
The true cost of shutting down the NHS and GP surgeries is coming home to roost. People now terminally ill with cancer that could have been treated. Last nights Newsnight report was heartbreaking. The even sadder part is that this was predicted to happen. Agreed, I think that is the biggest scandal out of this whole business. A mate of mine went into a hospice today and I wonder what would've been the outcome had they had better access to cancer diagnosis and treatment. On the topic of GPs, they've really taken the piss with Covid and even now my surgery is using it an an excuse to avoid in person appointments, it's disgraceful but then we can't critic doctors and the NHS can we? Sorry to hear about your friend. Pre-Covid 30,000 hospital beds, and thousands of nurses and doctors were lost due to austerity. The pandemic shone a light on the the previous 11 years of Tory ideology….. |
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Post by noustie on Aug 12, 2022 21:47:09 GMT
Agreed, I think that is the biggest scandal out of this whole business. A mate of mine went into a hospice today and I wonder what would've been the outcome had they had better access to cancer diagnosis and treatment. On the topic of GPs, they've really taken the piss with Covid and even now my surgery is using it an an excuse to avoid in person appointments, it's disgraceful but then we can't critic doctors and the NHS can we? Sorry to hear about your friend. Pre-Covid 30,000 hospital beds, and thousands of nurses and doctors were lost due to austerity. The pandemic shone a light on the the previous 11 years of Tory ideology….. My neice on my wife's side coming over from Delhi to be an ICU nurse on top dollar in comparison to locals in Aberdeen after NHS Grampian, Birmingham and NE England entered a bidding war for her services opened my eyes to the extent of this shit show. Absolutely mint for us as my wife is made up and hell of a role model for my wee lass (ssshhh she spent a fortnight in a Kathmandu jail protesting Chinese occupation of Tibet) but really have to question the morality of continuing to rob the developing world of its resource. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 12, 2022 22:37:37 GMT
I think you're right about the slowing it down. But IMO even just slowing it down helped - it gave time for vaccines. And it meant we didn't run out of hospital beds everywhere. The gf said they lost a lot of patients in her hospital because they needed more oxygen but couldn't be given it because they were out of staff and kit. Looking at the US data, states that did quite a bit to slow it down have seen quite a bit less death than states that did less to slow it down. Where does gf work, and what does he do in that hospital, ?? She was in Arizona at the time. Internal medicine normally but spent a lot of shifts in the ICU during COVID. |
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Post by musik on Aug 14, 2022 11:45:09 GMT
A Swedish perspective.
The restrictions we had initially were milder than in most other countries, and we were criticised for that. During 2021 somewhere we had an idea of responding to that criticism by implementing somewhat harder restrictions to some extent. Anders Tegnell said we can thereby compare the two strategies in the future.
At the same time we started to vaccinate people here. At the beginning we were left behind and I think Israel were at the top. It's a bit difficult perhaps to say what had the largest effect, the vaccinations or the extended work from home policy and other increased precautions.
I would say what is to blame for the increased prices we now see when it comes to food and energy in particular is to a large extent based on greed. Studies here says the companies are taking advantage of the situation and raise their prices more than necessary considering both Covid-19 and the war in Ukraine. Thereby the large inflation. There had been an inflation anyway, but it had been pretty large or large and not super large. Delivery problems, we have quite many of those atm, is due to the war in Ukraine.
The more or less stopped hospital service in Sweden for two years is the largest fault about it all. They could have opened up more and treated people here (I don't know about UK) simultaneously as the Covid-19 pandemic happened. Instead there were empty ICUs here, with 3 doctors and 5 nurses just standing there the whole day doing nothing, just "in case" someone arrived with covid. My God, they had masks and overalls and all that, so what was the problem? This has costed us enormously in suffering and lost job possibilities.
A real lockdown for 2 weeks had been the perfect way to stop Covid-19 at the beginning, the ideal solution, no traveling of course whatsoever. But that can just be done in theory unfortunately. It had required everybody to stay indoors, including the homeless.
Scientist said the virus dies within 2 weeks if there's noone to hold on to. But noone tried that, just various attempts.
So what I mean is the half-hearted lockdowns costs us hugely, but a wide open society costs us hugely too. As I said, I can only speak for Sweden. We have 20.000 people dead now and someone said quarter of a million with post-covid problems. That's a lot for little Sweden. A recovery will take decades. When the vaccinations were done the situation got better, then we saw an effect again with more sick or dead people when restrictions were milder again. The only thing Tegnell and the FHM regret is the lack of restrictions here at the beginning of the pandemic, when we didn't even have a vaccine to use. Most people died then and many thousands of lives and post-covid cases could have been saved.
So the one's to blame can only be the third option. How it all started.
I'm pissed off they took my Mother and Uncle away.
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Post by adri2008 on Aug 15, 2022 10:59:48 GMT
New Moderna booster approved for Omicron - is it even required now seeing as the vast majority of the population must have been exposed to the actual virus by now? and most likely several times
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Post by yeokel on Aug 15, 2022 13:28:27 GMT
New Moderna booster approved for Omicron - is it even required now seeing as the vast majority of the population must have been exposed to the actual virus by now? and most likely several times And so that we don’t have to worry about it the BBC shows that has been extensively tested on 437 people! I, for one, feel much better for knowing that! “ The results of experiments on 437 people showed the updated vaccine was safe and gave better immune protection against newer variants”. BBC link |
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 15, 2022 13:47:37 GMT
New Moderna booster approved for Omicron - is it even required now seeing as the vast majority of the population must have been exposed to the actual virus by now? and most likely several times And so that we don’t have to worry about it the BBC shows that has been extensively tested on 437 people! I, for one, feel much better for knowing that! “ The results of experiments on 437 people showed the updated vaccine was safe and gave better immune protection against newer variants”. BBC linkWasn’t Moderna banned for the under 30’s in many countries Is this a completely different brew? |
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Post by yeokel on Aug 15, 2022 13:54:28 GMT
I think it might of been only available in Wales at one point.
But that probably gave us a slightly wider test bed.
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 15, 2022 14:09:13 GMT
And so that we don’t have to worry about it the BBC shows that has been extensively tested on 437 people! I, for one, feel much better for knowing that! “ The results of experiments on 437 people showed the updated vaccine was safe and gave better immune protection against newer variants”. BBC linkWasn’t Moderna banned for the under 30’s in many countries Is this a completely different brew? Yeah it was. Pfizer was safer than Moderna for young men so it can't just be because it's mRNA. You'd think Moderna developers would take that on board so they could sell more. Iirc the Moderna dose was bigger, but there must be other differences. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 15, 2022 14:11:41 GMT
New Moderna booster approved for Omicron - is it even required now seeing as the vast majority of the population must have been exposed to the actual virus by now? and most likely several times And so that we don’t have to worry about it the BBC shows that has been extensively tested on 437 people! I, for one, feel much better for knowing that! “ The results of experiments on 437 people showed the updated vaccine was safe and gave better immune protection against newer variants”. BBC linkThat does seem small. I wonder if that's just because they're making small changes. I think the original phase 3 trials was 30,000. |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Aug 15, 2022 18:41:18 GMT
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Post by noustie on Aug 15, 2022 18:45:07 GMT
Booster with a cheeky little Monkeypox chaser this autumn?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 15, 2022 21:19:04 GMT
And they wonder why vast swathes of people have become completely skeptical… |
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Post by henry on Aug 16, 2022 6:21:40 GMT
AZ get the first jab, Pfizer get the booster, Moderna get the super boosters.
Sharing the wealth, diluting the blame.
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Post by adri2008 on Aug 16, 2022 9:53:13 GMT
What sort of vaccine has to be rolled out 4 times in 18 months to protect people - either a dog shit one or more likely, companies haven't finished milking the 'crisis'.
The government should be prioritising allowing people to actually heat their homes which is surely going to result in a huge amount of avoidable excess deaths come the winter.
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 16, 2022 10:19:37 GMT
What sort of vaccine has to be rolled out 4 times in 18 months to protect people - either a dog shit one or more likely, companies haven't finished milking the 'crisis'. The government should be prioritising allowing people to actually heat their homes which is surely going to result in a huge amount of avoidable excess deaths come the winter. I thought NICE were involved in the vaccine decisions. So if they're saying give it, it's because it's cheaper than other healthcare. So not using vaccines at all would cost more money. |
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Post by adri2008 on Aug 16, 2022 10:22:05 GMT
What sort of vaccine has to be rolled out 4 times in 18 months to protect people - either a dog shit one or more likely, companies haven't finished milking the 'crisis'. The government should be prioritising allowing people to actually heat their homes which is surely going to result in a huge amount of avoidable excess deaths come the winter. Why not also save lives? Well it's like anything - where to spend the money to best effect? Vaccinating everybody over 50 again seems like complete overkill to me |
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 16, 2022 10:39:17 GMT
Well it's like anything - where to spend the money to best effect? Vaccinating everybody over 50 again seems like complete overkill to me I changed my post while you were quoting it! I think NICE are involved in these decisions and they try to get best value for money. Personally have no idea whether over 50s or over 65s or nobody would be the best choice but NICE should do the maths. Hospital stays cost a lot so I could see how they might work out it's best to get extra jabs. |
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