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Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 25, 2021 19:26:16 GMT
It boils down to one simple question. Do you believe everything you are being told by the government and main stream media? Of course not but that doesn't mean I believe crackpot conspiracy theories either.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jan 25, 2021 19:32:10 GMT
Sam Coates on Sky was saying he found it very interesting that there was no mention of cases when Hancock was asked about the measures for coming out of Lockdown It was rather painful watching Mr Hancock trying to deflect from that question, I think it was the BBC who asked it. As vague as anything, saying deaths and admissions need to come down but again no figure as to what that needs to be. All we hear is "until they are low enough" but no actual info on how low that needs to be. They know what the numbers need to look like and it's doing my head in that they won't be more specific. What was interesting is Matt H mentioned NO new variants in his list, that's not even possible... If you look at the 5 covid levels it is only at Level 1 that there is 'no social distancing'. However in order to be at Level 1 then we have to have zero Covid in the country. Someone needs to ask them at one of these pressers if they really mean that. Ie are they actually going for Zero Covid (and if so how) and if they are not does that mean restrictions will be in place indefinitely?
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Post by zerps on Jan 25, 2021 19:33:36 GMT
It boils down to one simple question. Do you believe everything you are being told by the government and main stream media? Of course not but that doesn't mean I believe crackpot conspiracy theories either. Believe what you want as long as you know you’re being lied to. I was asked for a theory. I do believe the usd is being fucked on purpose and that we’re being lied to about the pandemic, so I went with that. The buy bitcoin bit was definitely tongue in cheek, you’re way too late for that 😁 Either way. We’re being lied to. Who knows why. They could ban smoking to save lives. They don’t.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jan 25, 2021 19:41:11 GMT
So a friend of a colleague of mine tragically died off the back of a car accident a few weeks ago. I won't repeat all the injuries but he was basically mangled albeit still just about alive when he went to hospital. Lasted a couple of days before passing away. Guess what they put on his death certificate? You guessed it. Why the fuck are people doing this? He did not die of covid, he died because of a horrifying car accident where he sustained multiple fatal injuries. Making up a cause of death to tick boxes is both dishonest and disgustingly disrespectful to loved ones. People need to be held accountable for this, it's horrendous and completely deceptive when we are trying to understand real covid death tolls. I think most people would agree with that. By the same token there are a number of patients who are discharged from hospital and then re-admitted because their situation worsens and if they subsequently pass away it's usually outside the 28 days and so Covid is not counted as cause of death in the official figures. Now I'm not saying one offsets the other because I've absolutely no idea whether it does or not. But that's the point - we should know - particularly if they are the figures being quoted to us as a justification for the restrictions we have to follow.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 25, 2021 19:42:02 GMT
So a friend of a colleague of mine tragically died off the back of a car accident a few weeks ago. I won't repeat all the injuries but he was basically mangled albeit still just about alive when he went to hospital. Lasted a couple of days before passing away. Guess what they put on his death certificate? You guessed it. Why the fuck are people doing this? He did not die of covid, he died because of a horrifying car accident where he sustained multiple fatal injuries. Making up a cause of death to tick boxes is both dishonest and disgustingly disrespectful to loved ones. People need to be held accountable for this, it's horrendous and completely deceptive when we are trying to understand real covid death tolls. I think most people would agree with that. By the same token there are a number of patients who are discharged from hospital and then re-admitted because their situation worsens and if they subsequently pass away it's usually outside the 28 days and so Covid is not counted as cause of death in the official figures. Now I'm not saying one offsets the other because I've absolutely no idea whether it does or not. But that's the point - we should know - particularly if they are the figures being quoted to us as a justification for the restrictions we have to follow. Absolutely.
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Post by chad on Jan 25, 2021 19:46:14 GMT
It boils down to one simple question. Do you believe everything you are being told by the government and main stream media? That’s not an answer is it
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 25, 2021 19:49:08 GMT
Of course not but that doesn't mean I believe crackpot conspiracy theories either. Believe what you want as long as you know you’re being lied to. I was asked for a theory. I do believe the usd is being fucked on purpose and that we’re being lied to about the pandemic, so I went with that. The buy bitcoin bit was definitely tongue in cheek, you’re way too late for that 😁 Either way. We’re being lied to. Who knows why. They could ban smoking to save lives. They don’t. Smoking is a choice. You don’t have a choice about covid. Your theory is utterly ridiculous. You are right that Johnson doesn’t care about the people’s health. But that doesn’t mean the lockdown is not about protecting people’s health. He cares only about himself being in power and he knows that to win the next election he needs to do at least look as if he is trying to mitigate deaths and economic damage. Although you’d have to be a complete moron to vote for Johnson or any of his cabinet in the future after the last 12 months.
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Post by zerps on Jan 25, 2021 19:49:19 GMT
It boils down to one simple question. Do you believe everything you are being told by the government and main stream media? That’s not an answer is it No mate it’s definitely a question.
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Post by zerps on Jan 25, 2021 19:51:34 GMT
Believe what you want as long as you know you’re being lied to. I was asked for a theory. I do believe the usd is being fucked on purpose and that we’re being lied to about the pandemic, so I went with that. The buy bitcoin bit was definitely tongue in cheek, you’re way too late for that 😁 Either way. We’re being lied to. Who knows why. They could ban smoking to save lives. They don’t. Smoking is a choice. You don’t have a choice about covid. Your theory is utterly ridiculous. You are right that Johnson doesn’t care about the people’s health. But that doesn’t mean the pandemic is not about protecting people’s health. He cares only about himself being in power and he knows that to win the next election he needs to do at least look as if he is trying to mitigate deaths and economic damage. Although you’d have to be a complete moron to vote for Johnson or any of his cabinet in the future after the last 12 months. If we’re being lied to, how utterly ridiculous is that? And how much are we being lied to?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 25, 2021 19:56:53 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 25, 2021 19:57:35 GMT
Smoking is a choice. You don’t have a choice about covid. Your theory is utterly ridiculous. You are right that Johnson doesn’t care about the people’s health. But that doesn’t mean the pandemic is not about protecting people’s health. He cares only about himself being in power and he knows that to win the next election he needs to do at least look as if he is trying to mitigate deaths and economic damage. Although you’d have to be a complete moron to vote for Johnson or any of his cabinet in the future after the last 12 months. If we’re being lied to, how utterly ridiculous is that? And how much are we being lied to? I’d seriously have a long hard look in the mirror at yourself,the shit you’re posting is pathetic or unless you’re on a wind up of course🤔
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jan 25, 2021 20:41:08 GMT
I think most people would agree with that. By the same token there are a number of patients who are discharged from hospital and then re-admitted because their situation worsens and if they subsequently pass away it's usually outside the 28 days and so Covid is not counted as cause of death in the official figures. Now I'm not saying one offsets the other because I've absolutely no idea whether it does or not. But that's the point - we should know - particularly if they are the figures being quoted to us as a justification for the restrictions we have to follow. I don't think that's the case actually. NHS England release death figures every day and some of those announced recently have died as far back as May. On 15th January for instance a death on November 18th was recorded, 58 days prior to the date of the report. That death will have been included in the 15/1/21 daily Government report. I'm pretty certain that anybody readmitted with the same symptoms who subsequently dies will be registered as a Covid related death. Don't believe that to be the case Dave - those who died back in May will still have to have died within 28 days of a positive test to make the official figures- though there may be other reasons for the delay in posting it. Similarly those re-admitted will be recorded as Covid deaths but will not be included in the official stats because they fall short of the 28 day threshold. I'm not trying to make a case for either over or under reporting - just that it's not truly reflective of the actuality. Read an article on it the other day but can't remember where- if I can find it again later I will post.
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Post by Davef on Jan 25, 2021 20:42:49 GMT
I don't think that's the case actually. NHS England release death figures every day and some of those announced recently have died as far back as May. On 15th January for instance a death on November 18th was recorded, 58 days prior to the date of the report. That death will have been included in the 15/1/21 daily Government report. I'm pretty certain that anybody readmitted with the same symptoms who subsequently dies will be registered as a Covid related death. Don't believe that to be the case Dave - those who died back in May will still have to have died within 28 days of a positive test to make the official figures- though there may be other reasons for the delay in posting it. Similarly those re-admitted will be recorded as Covid deaths but will not be included in the official stats because they fall short of the 28 day threshold. I'm not trying to make a case for either over or under reporting - just that it's not truly reflective of the actuality. Read an article on it the other day but can't remember where- if I can find it again later I will post. I just read back what I posted I and realised I was talking rubbish. I deleted the post... not in time though
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Post by chad on Jan 25, 2021 20:44:16 GMT
If we’re being lied to, how utterly ridiculous is that? And how much are we being lied to? I’d seriously have a long hard look in the mirror at yourself,the shit you’re posting is pathetic or unless you’re on a wind up of course🤔 Nailed it
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 25, 2021 20:46:33 GMT
Numbers are still in line with an R value around 0.6... if that stays the same then opening schools next half term should be alright.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 25, 2021 21:00:34 GMT
This........doesn't sound great if remotely true
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Post by starkiller on Jan 25, 2021 21:17:59 GMT
So a friend of a colleague of mine tragically died off the back of a car accident a few weeks ago. I won't repeat all the injuries but he was basically mangled albeit still just about alive when he went to hospital. Lasted a couple of days before passing away. Guess what they put on his death certificate? You guessed it. Why the fuck are people doing this? He did not die of covid, he died because of a horrifying car accident where he sustained multiple fatal injuries. Making up a cause of death to tick boxes is both dishonest and disgustingly disrespectful to loved ones. People need to be held accountable for this, it's horrendous and completely deceptive when we are trying to understand real covid death tolls. I know of three similar cases. There's more than enough information about number manipulation and inflation using multiple techniques since the start. Folk will glaze over and continue to believe the soap opera. They must prefer it. A real pandemic does not require number manipulation and inflation using multiple techniques. I would think that was pretty obvious. But not for most people, it would seem. Whatever ever folk think, there are those doing very well indeed out of this 'pandemic'. Same as the swine flu hoax. Very useful stuff, history is.
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Post by mutters on Jan 25, 2021 21:44:07 GMT
So a friend of a colleague of mine tragically died off the back of a car accident a few weeks ago. I won't repeat all the injuries but he was basically mangled albeit still just about alive when he went to hospital. Lasted a couple of days before passing away. Guess what they put on his death certificate? You guessed it. Why the fuck are people doing this? He did not die of covid, he died because of a horrifying car accident where he sustained multiple fatal injuries. Making up a cause of death to tick boxes is both dishonest and disgustingly disrespectful to loved ones. People need to be held accountable for this, it's horrendous and completely deceptive when we are trying to understand real covid death tolls. I know of three similar cases. There's more than enough information about number manipulation and inflation using multiple techniques since the start. Folk will glaze over and continue to believe the soap opera. They must prefer it. A real pandemic does not require number manipulation and inflation using multiple techniques. I would think that was pretty obvious. But not for most people, it would seem. Whatever ever folk think, there are those doing very well indeed out of this 'pandemic'. Same as the swine flu hoax. Very useful stuff, history is. The question is, who / what organisation is going to expose the numbers manipulation? Sadly I won't be holding my breath
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 25, 2021 22:02:23 GMT
I know of three similar cases. There's more than enough information about number manipulation and inflation using multiple techniques since the start. Folk will glaze over and continue to believe the soap opera. They must prefer it. A real pandemic does not require number manipulation and inflation using multiple techniques. I would think that was pretty obvious. But not for most people, it would seem. Whatever ever folk think, there are those doing very well indeed out of this 'pandemic'. Same as the swine flu hoax. Very useful stuff, history is. The question is, who / what organisation is going to expose the numbers manipulation? Sadly I won't be holding my breath I think it will come out one day. And frankly those responsible should be arrested. Lying about deaths and causes of deaths in order to fulfill an agenda is about as evil a crime as any.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 25, 2021 22:04:18 GMT
This........doesn't sound great if remotely true With reference to the last sentence in the AZ reply, I don't ever remember seeing that data and I was making a point of looking for it at the time. Is this the paper they're talking about? Because if it is, then that data isn't there ... www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32623-4/fulltextEDIT: Unless they are referring to this: www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32466-1/fulltextBut this study was tiny (compared to the one above) and only actually had 240 participants aged over 70 in it and they even admit that ... "The selection of participants aged 70 years and older, with a median age of 73–74 years between dose groups and with few comorbidities, might not be representative of the general older population."
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Post by chigstoke on Jan 25, 2021 22:20:12 GMT
This........doesn't sound great if remotely true
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jan 25, 2021 22:24:52 GMT
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jan 25, 2021 22:30:36 GMT
I guess we might not know yet, or it might not be getting released, but I wonder how many people who’ve had the vaccine (first or second dose) have actually then contracted the virus?
Would it be a few months before cases start to trickle through. I’d have expected some now given the first dose doesn’t provide near full immunity.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 25, 2021 22:30:49 GMT
Yes I found it thanks Matt and edited into my post before you posted here, what are your thoughts on what I've said please?
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Post by swampmongrel on Jan 25, 2021 22:32:09 GMT
This........doesn't sound great if remotely true Weird how the EU commission are kicking off about not getting any of this vaccine. I’d file under bullshit. If Germany doesn’t have any doses how could ‘Senior German Officials’ here better information than anyone else about efficacy.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 25, 2021 22:37:27 GMT
This........doesn't sound great if remotely true Weird how the EU commission are kicking off about not getting any of this vaccine. I’d file under bullshit. If Germany doesn’t have any doses how could ‘Senior German Officials’ here better information than anyone else about efficacy. Hopefully it turns out to be politically motivated rubbish But it does seem wild - and wildly irresponsible reporting at a very sensitive time. Apparently Handelsblatt is considered to be a serious newspaper
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 25, 2021 22:46:09 GMT
Smoking is a choice. You don’t have a choice about covid. Your theory is utterly ridiculous. You are right that Johnson doesn’t care about the people’s health. But that doesn’t mean the pandemic is not about protecting people’s health. He cares only about himself being in power and he knows that to win the next election he needs to do at least look as if he is trying to mitigate deaths and economic damage. Although you’d have to be a complete moron to vote for Johnson or any of his cabinet in the future after the last 12 months. If we’re being lied to, how utterly ridiculous is that? And how much are we being lied to? I don’t believe the films in intensive care units are lies, or the expression on my neighbour’s face when I see her come home from a night shift as a children’s nurse drafted into adult intensive care to deal with covid, or the accounts from a friend who is an intensive care consultant about covid, or the description of long covid from someone I know who got ill in April and has barely been physically able to work since. Those aren’t lies. Boris Johnson got to his position of power by lying. He has been sacked for lying on several occasions. I am sure he frequently lies to us.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 25, 2021 22:47:45 GMT
The question is, who / what organisation is going to expose the numbers manipulation? Sadly I won't be holding my breath I think it will come out one day. And frankly those responsible should be arrested. Lying about deaths and causes of deaths in order to fulfill an agenda is about as evil a crime as any. The most important death stat is excess deaths
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Post by superjw on Jan 25, 2021 22:52:11 GMT
I guess we might not know yet, or it might not be getting released, but I wonder how many people who’ve had the vaccine (first or second dose) have actually then contracted the virus? Would it be a few months before cases start to trickle through. I’d have expected some now given the first dose doesn’t provide near full immunity. It could have happened, as although I believe the first jab gives you most of the immunity, it's not instant, so it takes your body some time to process and then start building the immunity. I've seen it somewhere but I can't remember what the actual timeframe is. But basically it is possible to stil catch Covid immediately after having the vaccine - think Chris Whitty said this last week. However, as the top most vulnerable are getting vaccinated it stands to reason they should be shielding anyway so shouldn't be catching it as easily - unless they now believe they are superheroes after getting the jab and going everywhere...
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Post by stokeykez on Jan 25, 2021 23:03:12 GMT
It boils down to one simple question. Do you believe everything you are being told by the government and main stream media? When they are reporting the correct fact that the NHS is overwhelmed and the itu is full then yes you must believe them. If you know better then would you like to come and do a shift or two on itu when you are speaking to on average 5 families per long day (13 hours), facetime every family to tell them that their loved ones ventilators are being switched off as they have hit their ceiling of care. When the average age of illness and death is now highest in the 40-60 age bracket, I think we have to listen to what the govt and scientists are telling us. Sick of everyone sitting behind the bullshit of "well i don't know anyone who has died of it" you are very fucking lucky then because many families are being ripped apart by this. But if you choose not to listen then so be it, just don't be disappointed when there are no free ventilators when you or your family need one.
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