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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 10, 2020 21:33:57 GMT
20000 cases today tide turned back up explosion in southeast schools time for some proper leadership , firm and decisive action otherwise more of the expected recovery months next year will be spent in lockdown - close the schools now - Abort the Xmas regulation relaxing - Tier 3 everywhere is the only way Otherwise quarter one will be spent in lockdown Apart from a tiny blip in August, the number of deaths in the capital have, since the Spring, been below the five year average. But hey ... let's bankrupt more businesses, make even more people unemployed, create even more poverty and destroy the education of millions of kids, just to be on the safe side, eh?
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 10, 2020 21:38:48 GMT
20000 cases today tide turned back up explosion in southeast schools time for some proper leadership , firm and decisive action otherwise more of the expected recovery months next year will be spent in lockdown - close the schools now - Abort the Xmas regulation relaxing - Tier 3 everywhere is the only way Otherwise quarter one will be spent in lockdown Apart from a tiny blip in August, the number of deaths in the capital have, since the Spring, been below the five year average. But hey ... let's bankrupt more businesses, make even more people unemployed, create even more poverty and destroy the education of millions of kids, just on the off-chance, eh? "off- chance" of what?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 10, 2020 21:42:30 GMT
Apart from a tiny blip in August, the number of deaths in the capital have, since the Spring, been below the five year average. But hey ... let's bankrupt more businesses, make even more people unemployed, create even more poverty and destroy the education of millions of kids, just on the off-chance, eh? "off- chance" of what? I'd edited it to "safe-side" before you posted but it's kind of the same thing ... take massive draconian measures that will cripple thousands of people, on the off-chance that they might be needed.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 10, 2020 21:42:47 GMT
20000 cases today tide turned back up explosion in southeast schools time for some proper leadership , firm and decisive action otherwise more of the expected recovery months next year will be spent in lockdown - close the schools now - Abort the Xmas regulation relaxing - Tier 3 everywhere is the only way Otherwise quarter one will be spent in lockdown Apart from a tiny blip in August, the number of deaths in the capital have, since the Spring, been below the five year average. But hey ... let's bankrupt more businesses, make even more people unemployed, create even more poverty and destroy the education of millions of kids, just to be on the safe side, eh? Paul it’s not a off chance cases are rising again that’s a empirical fact , increasing cases lead to baked in Deaths we’ve been too slow twice a third time would be unforgivable
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 10, 2020 21:47:56 GMT
Apart from a tiny blip in August, the number of deaths in the capital have, since the Spring, been below the five year average. But hey ... let's bankrupt more businesses, make even more people unemployed, create even more poverty and destroy the education of millions of kids, just to be on the safe side, eh? Paul it’s not a off chance cases are rising again that’s a empirical fact , increasing cases lead to baked in Deaths we’ve been too slow twice a third time would be unforgivable Correct. This is a pandemic that is racking up by the day (even with the "draconian" measures) Off-chance my arse.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 10, 2020 21:50:34 GMT
Apart from a tiny blip in August, the number of deaths in the capital have, since the Spring, been below the five year average. But hey ... let's bankrupt more businesses, make even more people unemployed, create even more poverty and destroy the education of millions of kids, just to be on the safe side, eh? Paul it’s not a off chance cases are rising again that’s a empirical fact , increasing cases lead to baked in Deaths we’ve been too slow twice a third time would be unforgivable Lockdown ended 8 days ago, we know there's a two week lag to new cases, therefore any increase now, is a result of cases that occurred during lockdown, so if actual lockdown didn't work, why are you calling for national tier 3 restrictions now?
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Post by Davef on Dec 10, 2020 21:54:55 GMT
Apart from a tiny blip in August, the number of deaths in the capital have, since the Spring, been below the five year average. But hey ... let's bankrupt more businesses, make even more people unemployed, create even more poverty and destroy the education of millions of kids, just to be on the safe side, eh? Paul it’s not a off chance cases are rising again that’s a empirical fact , increasing cases lead to baked in Deaths we’ve been too slow twice a third time would be unforgivable The Welsh tried to lead the way with their circuit breaker before England locked down for a month and it got them nowhere. Lockdowns are a waste of time. It's becoming apparent that health settings are, and have been, seeding infection back into the community.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 10, 2020 21:56:56 GMT
Paul it’s not a off chance cases are rising again that’s a empirical fact , increasing cases lead to baked in Deaths we’ve been too slow twice a third time would be unforgivable Correct. This is a pandemic that is racking up by the day (even with the "draconian" measures) Off-chance my arse. Look at the actual data for positive cases in people over 60.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 10, 2020 22:02:40 GMT
Paul it’s not a off chance cases are rising again that’s a empirical fact , increasing cases lead to baked in Deaths we’ve been too slow twice a third time would be unforgivable The Welsh tried to lead the way with their circuit breaker before England locked down for a month and it got them nowhere. Lockdowns are a waste of time. It's becoming apparent that health settings are, and have been, seeding infection back into the community. They only had 2 weeks of lockdown then everything opened back up straight after, that's the issue not that lockdowns don't work.
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Post by andystokey on Dec 10, 2020 22:13:25 GMT
That's an incredible two minutes of footage Dave (especially the second minute), how could he possibly know that all these years later, it would ever become so pertinent. If he was still alive today? No doubt he'd be regarded as an 'outlier' and a bit of a freak. His death in August last year, a mere five weeks before the suspiciously timed Gates Foundation Event 201 pandemic exercise, was incredibly convenient. To say the least. His voice would surely have derailed the use of the PCR test, upon which this entire 'pandemic' narrative is founded. It's a shame you had to bring Bill Gates into this post. The comments in that video are something that everyone should hear and I recommend everyone watches it.The PCR test does not tell you if you are ill. It does not tell you if you are carrying the active virus. It does not tell you if you are infectious. At best it tells that there is a microscopic fragment of material in you. Which is why conflating a positive PCR test with someone a lay-person would consider "having" Covid-19 is such a misdirection. The idea of testing people with no other symptoms is just not what it was ever intended for. Our politicians have been allowed to use a tool inappropriately and someone on SAGE surely should have just said STOP.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 10, 2020 22:13:29 GMT
Correct. This is a pandemic that is racking up by the day (even with the "draconian" measures) Off-chance my arse. Look at the actual data for positive cases in people over 60. We need to shut up shop until end of January in my opinion. Xmas? Who cares... Lockdown properly for another two months and get this clucker out of the way. Business basically shuts down for this time anyway. I grant you hospitality has suffered horrendously.. Give them a whopping wedge and a future inducement of cheapo meals and drinks in the spring. We take one step forward and then two back. Christmas days off ... meal deals in the late summer ??? WTF.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 10, 2020 22:17:52 GMT
The Welsh tried to lead the way with their circuit breaker before England locked down for a month and it got them nowhere. Lockdowns are a waste of time. It's becoming apparent that health settings are, and have been, seeding infection back into the community. They only had 2 weeks of lockdown then everything opened back up straight after, that's the issue not that lockdowns don't work. For what it's worth mate, this thread (it's probably a 5 min read) pretty much sums up where my head is at (his forecast has actually proved to be far more closely aligned to the eventual reality than that of the government's) ...
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tmp
Spectator
Posts: 46
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Post by tmp on Dec 10, 2020 22:26:10 GMT
Some very interesting posts on here today especially the Kary Mullis one.
I think based on what I’ve read that the PCR tests are misleading us. The pandemic if ever it was a pandemic is basically over. The PCR tests are picking up dead fragments of virus in a large amount of people. Also some people are sadly still dying of the virus but thankfully in reducing numbers.
What I think we’ll see in the New Year is the usual post Christmas increase in deaths. Also I think that the excess deaths will still be there which are a result of the lockdowns.
If we still use the PCR tests it will be said that a lot of them are Covid deaths.
I do not understand why people believe the government.
They have either messed up or this is a deliberate collapse of the economy. Then there is Brexit to come.
PS I voted remain, am a lockdown sceptic but also a former Labour party member. Talk about being mixed up!
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Dec 10, 2020 22:31:29 GMT
22 (TWENTY TWO) BILLLLLION FUCKING POUNDS!!!!
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Post by andystokey on Dec 10, 2020 22:33:56 GMT
20000 cases today tide turned back up explosion in southeast schools time for some proper leadership , firm and decisive action otherwise more of the expected recovery months next year will be spent in lockdown - close the schools now - Abort the Xmas regulation relaxing - Tier 3 everywhere is the only way Otherwise quarter one will be spent in lockdown Apart from a tiny blip in August, the number of deaths in the capital have, since the Spring, been below the five year average. But hey ... let's bankrupt more businesses, make even more people unemployed, create even more poverty and destroy the education of millions of kids, just to be on the safe side, eh? We don't seem to get our narrative away from cases as the driver of policy. These aren't cases they are positive tests. When will we start deciding our policy on something genuinely tangible. We now know admissions aren't even a useful measure anymore. The mass testing has ruined our ability to decide anything useful. We have too many tests of healthy citizens of variable quantity and quality. We can't even use deaths anymore because even they are not defined appropriately. There are no numbers in the system that have any useful prediction capability because we've broken the basic rules of experimental science. Even a high school student knows not to vary the parameters as we have and worse still bring in eroneous confounding variables. Correlation does not necessarily mean causation, any analysis based on findings from uncontrolled variables can create an incorrect reading of a link between two variables. Positive tests and people dying from Covid-19 have no correlation, there is NO LINK It's total pseudoscience and the public and politicians are basing everything on positive tests per population. It's totally wrong.
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 10, 2020 22:37:00 GMT
Some very interesting posts on here today especially the Kary Mullis one. I think based on what I’ve read that the PCR tests are misleading us. The pandemic if ever it was a pandemic is basically over. The PCR tests are picking up dead fragments of virus in a large amount of people. Also some people are sadly still dying of the virus but thankfully in reducing numbers. What I think we’ll see in the New Year is the usual post Christmas increase in deaths. Also I think that the excess deaths will still be there which are a result of the lockdowns. If we still use the PCR tests it will be said that a lot of them are Covid deaths. I do not understand why people believe the government. They have either messed up or this is a deliberate collapse of the economy. Then there is Brexit to come. PS I voted remain, am a lockdown sceptic but also a former Labour party member. Talk about being mixed up! Great post. You need to nail your colours though. Brexiteer or Remainer Virus or conspiracy Lockdown or let rip No half measures here 😁 ps.. just thought let rip Could mean RIP...😳
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 10, 2020 22:37:29 GMT
Apart from a tiny blip in August, the number of deaths in the capital have, since the Spring, been below the five year average. But hey ... let's bankrupt more businesses, make even more people unemployed, create even more poverty and destroy the education of millions of kids, just to be on the safe side, eh? We don't seem to get our narrative away from cases as the driver of policy. These aren't cases they are positive tests. When will we start deciding our policy on something genuinely tangible. We now know admissions aren't even a useful measure anymore. The mass testing has ruined our ability to decide anything useful. We have too many tests of healthy citizens of variable quantity and quality. We can't even use deaths anymore because even they are not defined appropriately. There are no numbers in the system that have any useful prediction capability because we've broken the basic rules of experimental science. Even a high school student knows not to vary the parameters as we have and worse still bring in eroneous confounding variables. Correlation does not necessarily mean causation, any analysis based on findings from uncontrolled variables can create an incorrect reading of a link between two variables. Positive tests and people dying from Covid-19 have no correlation, there is NO LINK It's total pseudoscience and the public and politicians are basing everything on positive tests per population. It's totally wrong. Perfectly put Andy.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 10, 2020 22:37:41 GMT
Paul it’s not a off chance cases are rising again that’s a empirical fact , increasing cases lead to baked in Deaths we’ve been too slow twice a third time would be unforgivable The Welsh tried to lead the way with their circuit breaker before England locked down for a month and it got them nowhere. Lockdowns are a waste of time. It's becoming apparent that health settings are, and have been, seeding infection back into the community. Welsh first minister has already said not long enough not had enough which had also been our issue , see France has gone until January 20th tonight and put health ahead of popularity , Johnson an co are about to allow the worst winter ever to envelope the court with a belated lockdown , horrendous death numbers and No deal Brexit breakdown of supply
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Post by Gods on Dec 10, 2020 22:37:49 GMT
London now has the highest average infection rate in England. It's spreading like shit in some Boroughs and in Essex.
Bizarre that there is nowhere in the capital where you can get a vaccine.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 10, 2020 22:42:07 GMT
Some folk have been mocking of the suggestion the vaccine is developed using aborted fetal cells. So are many other vaccines - see here. The cells currently in use are cultured from fetal cells dating back to the 1960s and 70s. Even the Catholic Church are advising that this isn't an ethical problem. Why are you? You keep talking about THE vaccine - there are 3 that have published there Phase 3 results and many more still under going testing and according to the article above not all of them use these cell cultures. If some of these vaccines use these cultures are there ethical issues with those that don't? And finally why are you trying to cause unnecessary deaths from a now curable disease by talking people out of taking a vaccine? Why should people die because of your beliefs?
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 10, 2020 22:53:17 GMT
We don't seem to get our narrative away from cases as the driver of policy. These aren't cases they are positive tests. When will we start deciding our policy on something genuinely tangible. We now know admissions aren't even a useful measure anymore. The mass testing has ruined our ability to decide anything useful. We have too many tests of healthy citizens of variable quantity and quality. We can't even use deaths anymore because even they are not defined appropriately. There are no numbers in the system that have any useful prediction capability because we've broken the basic rules of experimental science. Even a high school student knows not to vary the parameters as we have and worse still bring in eroneous confounding variables. Correlation does not necessarily mean causation, any analysis based on findings from uncontrolled variables can create an incorrect reading of a link between two variables. Positive tests and people dying from Covid-19 have no correlation, there is NO LINK It's total pseudoscience and the public and politicians are basing everything on positive tests per population. It's totally wrong. Perfectly put Andy. Are you two scientists??
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Post by andystokey on Dec 10, 2020 23:03:28 GMT
How I miss the chats with Feynman in the old transfer threads. From Zigic to Z bosons.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 10, 2020 23:10:42 GMT
I get more and more convinced everyday that schools(parents picking them up) is the main spread of this virus having witnessed what I’ve done of late.I also notice the main bulk of infections is in the 11 to 18 year olds in London. Bayern was right all along🤔😄
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Post by Gods on Dec 10, 2020 23:13:26 GMT
We don't seem to get our narrative away from cases as the driver of policy. These aren't cases they are positive tests. When will we start deciding our policy on something genuinely tangible. We now know admissions aren't even a useful measure anymore. The mass testing has ruined our ability to decide anything useful. We have too many tests of healthy citizens of variable quantity and quality. We can't even use deaths anymore because even they are not defined appropriately. There are no numbers in the system that have any useful prediction capability because we've broken the basic rules of experimental science. Even a high school student knows not to vary the parameters as we have and worse still bring in eroneous confounding variables. Correlation does not necessarily mean causation, any analysis based on findings from uncontrolled variables can create an incorrect reading of a link between two variables. Positive tests and people dying from Covid-19 have no correlation, there is NO LINK It's total pseudoscience and the public and politicians are basing everything on positive tests per population. It's totally wrong. Perfectly put Andy. I think you two have been out in the sun for too long without a hat
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 10, 2020 23:13:38 GMT
How I miss the chats with Feynman in the old transfer threads. From Zigic to Z bosons. That's a yes then 😉
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 10, 2020 23:16:06 GMT
I get more and more convinced everyday that schools(parents picking them up) is the main spread of this virus having witnessed what I’ve done of late.I also notice the main bulk of infections is in the 11 to 18 year olds in London. Bayern was right all along🤔😄 Our kids have stopped my better half (grandparents) picking them up on the two days that we did 👍
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 10, 2020 23:17:38 GMT
I get more and more convinced everyday that schools(parents picking them up) is the main spread of this virus having witnessed what I’ve done of late.I also notice the main bulk of infections is in the 11 to 18 year olds in London. Bayern was right all along🤔😄 Our kids have stopped my better half (grandparents) picking them up on the two days that we did 👍 Yes we as grandparents might be doing the same soon as well
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 10, 2020 23:32:05 GMT
Not really a full on science experiment but I thought I'd share. A friend of mines wife works at Royal Stoke and has been given a box of these lateral flow tests to take home. She has to self test regularly with these things before starting shifts. So she does and the first time positive, work says come in if you feel ok and have a "proper" test. She tests negative. This has happened now on three seperate occasions over the last few weeks and hasn't returned a positive with a lab test at work. Two points 1. how many false positives are these things turning up elsewhere? 2. If the hospital says come in and get, if asymptomatic, I assume they must rarely believe them. They sound useless apart from to indicate you might be positive. My Mrs was due to start her new job at North Staffs Hospital today but a couple of days ago had a dry cough. She went for a lateral flow test which came back negative. Yesterday she lost smell and taste so went for a proper test. It’s come back positive. What’s the point of the lateral flow test is my question. Stop knicker wetting HB, nothing to see here ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 10, 2020 23:39:20 GMT
I think you two have been out in the sun for too long without a hat I think everything that Andy has written there, is absolutely on point. Pick out the bits that you disagree with and I'll be more than happy to debate you on it.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 11, 2020 0:13:06 GMT
They only had 2 weeks of lockdown then everything opened back up straight after, that's the issue not that lockdowns don't work. For what it's worth mate, this thread (it's probably a 5 min read) pretty much sums up where my head is at (his forecast has actually proved to be far more closely aligned to the eventual reality than that of the government's) ... I've never said lockdowns STOP covid. I've always been of the opinion that we'd get a vaccine very quickly (which we have) and it was always going to be a case of rolling lockdowns to SLOW down the deaths until the vaccine had chance to provide some immunity to tip the balance. Its just a few months away, people need to hold their nerve and by early summer they'll be a massive boom not seen in our lifetime and Covid will be just something we look back on and say it made us re-evaluate certain parts of our lives with the consolation the dead didn't lose their lives in vein.
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