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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 27, 2020 10:35:54 GMT
I still can't get over that we're 70,000 over the average excess deaths and that's been with measures never seen before in this country and people think it's ok to crack on.
Mental.
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 27, 2020 10:48:29 GMT
I agree with his point lower down in the thread too. We're doing it to ourselves, gladly.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2020 11:53:32 GMT
I still can't get over that we're 70,000 over the average excess deaths and that's been with measures never seen before in this country and people think it's ok to crack on. Mental. I can't believe somebody would be so blasé about their own Goverment lying and proceeding to kill 100,000s of innocent people in another country. Each to their own.
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Post by drfootball on Nov 27, 2020 12:08:58 GMT
I agree with his point lower down in the thread too. We're doing it to ourselves, gladly. Read Michael Crichton's State of Fear 😠
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 27, 2020 12:09:32 GMT
I still can't get over that we're 70,000 over the average excess deaths and that's been with measures never seen before in this country and people think it's ok to crack on. Mental. I can't believe somebody would be so blasé about their own Goverment lying and proceeding to kill 100,000s of innocent people in another country. Each to their own. Because overthrowing a dictator that had already killed untold amounts of people, would have killed more and persecuted more people makes sense?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Nov 27, 2020 12:19:18 GMT
I can't believe somebody would be so blasé about their own Goverment lying and proceeding to kill 100,000s of innocent people in another country. Each to their own. Because overthrowing a dictator that had already killed untold amounts of people, would have killed more and persecuted more people makes sense? Unless it’s North Korea?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 27, 2020 12:21:23 GMT
Because overthrowing a dictator that had already killed untold amounts of people, would have killed more and persecuted more people makes sense? Unless it’s North Korea? I think if we bombed/invaded Korea WW3 would start and tens/hundreds of millions would die. Not sure what your point is.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2020 12:32:20 GMT
I can't believe somebody would be so blasé about their own Goverment lying and proceeding to kill 100,000s of innocent people in another country. Each to their own. Because overthrowing a dictator that had already killed untold amounts of people, would have killed more and persecuted more people makes sense? Absolutely. I don't even know what all the fuss was about.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 27, 2020 12:37:20 GMT
This thread is counter-intuitive but its logical.
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Post by Davef on Nov 27, 2020 12:39:48 GMT
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Post by Davef on Nov 27, 2020 12:57:31 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 27, 2020 13:21:44 GMT
I agree with his point lower down in the thread too. We're doing it to ourselves, gladly. Read Michael Crichton's State of Fear 😠 It's a novel. The scariest thing about this thread is the number of people mixing up the real world with some random dystopian fantasy. The weirdest thing is that the peddler's if these dystopian fictions start by claiming it is the government who are scaring people shitless (does anyone know anyone actually scared by government advice?) when it is they who are offering a truly horrifying vision of how the world works while offering no way out of the nightmare world they have created and want others to inhabit. My dystopian vision is that of a world filled with a bunch of passive loners terrified of the real world trying to entice others into their lonely paranoid fantasies so as not to feel so alone in a world they don't really understand. I'm sure Michael Crichton would do a better job of spinning that particular yarn than me. Or is it just too true for fiction? In order to head off any accusations of hypocrisy I'd like to offer a way out of my particular dystopian nightmare: perspective. Let's start with cows:
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 27, 2020 13:24:00 GMT
The other day we had a discussion about the merits of using the MSM over Twitter for sourcing information.
Well yesterday I watched Matt Hancock stand up in the HOC and suggest that mass testing had been responsible for bringing down cases in Liverpool.
Now this is patently not true, however it was amazing how quickly this narrative was adopted by the MSM.
Watching Politics Live yesterday and Jo Coburn (the presenter), plus every single one of her panelists, Barry Gardiner (Labour), Siobhan Baillie (Conservative), Helen Pidd (The Guardian) and Nick Ferrari (LBC) at some point during the show (without even referencing Hancock) referred to this as being 100% fact. They weren't deliberately lying, they had just accepted that it was true and were discussing whether the financial cost of mass testing would be worth it in other areas, if it ultimately meant you would drop down a tier if you did it.
It was a nonsense discussion.
I turned on Channel 4 News in the evening and Jon Snow was at it as well.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 27, 2020 13:36:16 GMT
Let's get this party started.....
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Post by starkiller on Nov 27, 2020 13:37:40 GMT
Read Michael Crichton's State of Fear 😠 It's a novel. The scariest thing about this thread is the number of people mixing up the real world with some random dystopian fantasy. The weirdest thing is that the peddler's if these dystopian fictions start by claiming it is the government who are scaring people shitless (does anyone know anyone actually scared by government advice?) when it is they who are offering a truly horrifying vision of how the world works while offering no way out of the nightmare world they have created and want others to inhabit. My dystopian vision is that of a world filled with a bunch of passive loners terrified of the real world trying to entice others into their lonely paranoid fantasies so as not to feel so alone in a world they don't really understand. I'm sure Michael Crichton would do a better job of spinning that particular yarn than me. Or is it just too true for fiction? In order to head off any accusations of hypocrisy I'd like to offer a way out of my particular dystopian nightmare: perspective. Let's start with cows: What about those mixing the real world with a zombie apocalypse nightmare, for something no more serious than the flu? And in many cases actually is the flu. It's the overreaction to this that is directly and seriously affecting people right now, not your pet hate of people trying to work out what's going on. Psychologically funnelled towards an unnecessary vaccine and 'freedom' pass. In their own documents it says they wish to increase the sense of threat (fear) in the public. Are people allowed to do what they want, or not? Are they being controlled or not? It's already being seen that state has overreached its involvement in people's lives. And let's be clear, once people accept an Orwellian named 'freedom' pass for their own freedom, and to simply do usual stuff, it's absolutely no longer freedom. It's a control pass. In fact, it's almost an admission from government, and acceptance from people, that we are 'imprisoned' in some way. And totally unnecessarily. And it's not a stretch to see the ramifications of such control, based on the evidence we've seen this year. So it's not insanity to be concerned about where this is potentially headed. And, that aside, the very real and actual ways people have had their lives totally screwed over is evident everywhere, it requires no internet to see this.
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 27, 2020 13:45:39 GMT
The other day we had a discussion about the merits of using the MSM over Twitter for sourcing information. Well yesterday I watched Matt Hancock stand up in the HOC and suggest that mass testing had been responsible for bringing down cases in Liverpool. Now this is patently not true, however it was amazing how quickly this narrative was adopted by the MSM. Watching Politics Live yesterday and Jo Coburn (the presenter), plus every single one of her panelists, Barry Gardiner (Labour), Siobhan Baillie (Conservative), Helen Pidd (The Guardian) and Nick Ferrari (LBC) at some point during the show (without even referencing Hancock) referred to this as being 100% fact. They weren't deliberately lying, they had just accepted that it was true and were discussing whether the financial cost of mass testing would be worth it in other areas, if it ultimately meant you would drop down a tier if you did it. It was a nonsense discussion. I turned on Channel 4 News in the evening and Jon Snow was at it as well. Hancock and/or his friends/associates are clearly making a lot of money from the testing side of things. He's very keen to have as many tests as possible regardless of whether they are any use or not and once this is done, to keep on testing people for other stuff.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 27, 2020 14:21:04 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 27, 2020 14:21:43 GMT
The other day we had a discussion about the merits of using the MSM over Twitter for sourcing information. Well yesterday I watched Matt Hancock stand up in the HOC and suggest that mass testing had been responsible for bringing down cases in Liverpool. Now this is patently not true, however it was amazing how quickly this narrative was adopted by the MSM. Watching Politics Live yesterday and Jo Coburn (the presenter), plus every single one of her panelists, Barry Gardiner (Labour), Siobhan Baillie (Conservative), Helen Pidd (The Guardian) and Nick Ferrari (LBC) at some point during the show (without even referencing Hancock) referred to this as being 100% fact. They weren't deliberately lying, they had just accepted that it was true and were discussing whether the financial cost of mass testing would be worth it in other areas, if it ultimately meant you would drop down a tier if you did it. It was a nonsense discussion. I turned on Channel 4 News in the evening and Jon Snow was at it as well. Hancock and/or his friends/associates are clearly making a lot of money from the testing side of things. He's very keen to have as many tests as possible regardless of whether they are any use or not and once this is done, to keep on testing people for other stuff. Just seen this ... Hartley-Brewer exposes the claim for what it is and Jenrick ends up tying himself up in knots.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 27, 2020 14:33:34 GMT
The other day we had a discussion about the merits of using the MSM over Twitter for sourcing information. Well yesterday I watched Matt Hancock stand up in the HOC and suggest that mass testing had been responsible for bringing down cases in Liverpool. Now this is patently not true, however it was amazing how quickly this narrative was adopted by the MSM. Watching Politics Live yesterday and Jo Coburn (the presenter), plus every single one of her panelists, Barry Gardiner (Labour), Siobhan Baillie (Conservative), Helen Pidd (The Guardian) and Nick Ferrari (LBC) at some point during the show (without even referencing Hancock) referred to this as being 100% fact. They weren't deliberately lying, they had just accepted that it was true and were discussing whether the financial cost of mass testing would be worth it in other areas, if it ultimately meant you would drop down a tier if you did it. It was a nonsense discussion. I turned on Channel 4 News in the evening and Jon Snow was at it as well. Smart people knowingly having nonsense discussion. Thats why I gave up. Because you have to stay right on top of topic to know that what you are watching is shades of nonsense. Lifes to short to stay on top of every topic, so with trust gone, I gave up. What does Chomsky say, the secret is to allow only a narrow range of opinion but encourage a vibrant debate within that range. This decade it's more and more narrow. My hunch is this is a steering response because of the effect of the internet.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 27, 2020 14:33:56 GMT
Let's get this party started..... Think it will be a pretty dull party mate. The economies fucked for decades and we look set to see the worst poverty in 3 centuries. That's what happens when a country gets shut down for a year.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 27, 2020 14:35:05 GMT
The other day we had a discussion about the merits of using the LSM over Twitter for sourcing information. Well yesterday I watched Matt Hancock stand up in the HOC and suggest that mass testing had been responsible for bringing down cases in Liverpool. Now this is patently not true, however it was amazing how quickly this narrative was adopted by the LSM. Watching Politics Live yesterday and Jo Coburn (the presenter), plus every single one of her panelists, Barry Gardiner (Labour), Siobhan Baillie (Conservative), Helen Pidd (The Guardian) and Nick Ferrari (LBC) at some point during the show (without even referencing Hancock) referred to this as being 100% fact. They weren't deliberately lying, they had just accepted that it was true and were discussing whether the financial cost of mass testing would be worth it in other areas, if it ultimately meant you would drop down a tier if you did it. It was a nonsense discussion. I turned on Channel 4 News in the evening and Jon Snow was at it as well. Just made a quick amendment to your "MSM" wording mate 😉
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Post by Davef on Nov 27, 2020 14:47:50 GMT
Hancock and/or his friends/associates are clearly making a lot of money from the testing side of things. He's very keen to have as many tests as possible regardless of whether they are any use or not and once this is done, to keep on testing people for other stuff. Just seen this ... Hartley-Brewer exposes the claim for what it is and Jenrick ends up tying himself up in knots. Does Jenrick have any self respect? Why would you put yourself in this position when you know damn well that you're going to have to lie your way through the day?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Nov 27, 2020 15:38:49 GMT
Hancock and/or his friends/associates are clearly making a lot of money from the testing side of things. He's very keen to have as many tests as possible regardless of whether they are any use or not and once this is done, to keep on testing people for other stuff. Just seen this ... Hartley-Brewer exposes the claim for what it is and Jenrick ends up tying himself up in knots. No Minister will want to go on that show. He was eviscerated! Just a pity she didn’t let speak a bit more and he would have tripped up even more I would also have like her to ask him why he didn’t challenge the scientific advice when he used that as an excuse
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 27, 2020 16:10:29 GMT
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 27, 2020 16:22:17 GMT
Has it ever occurred to you (or Starkiller) that it wasn't Covid that started all this but Brexit? Brexit was never about turning us into a libertarian utopia, but rather an authoritarian oligarchy. Covid has just handily helped to speed things up. But you voted for Brexit - so I guess you're fine with it.
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Post by Gods on Nov 27, 2020 16:40:14 GMT
Has it ever occurred to you (or Starkiller) that it wasn't Covid that started all this but Brexit? Brexit was never about turning us into a libertarian utopia, but rather an authoritarian oligarchy. Covid has just handily helped to speed things up. But you voted for Brexit - so I guess you're fine with it. I remember David Cameron 3 elections ago telling us it would be 'chaos', if we elected Ed Milliband, well I would have taken Ed's 'chaos' any day compared to whole Brexit pantomime and what has been served up instead.
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Post by Northy on Nov 27, 2020 16:40:26 GMT
It's a novel. The scariest thing about this thread is the number of people mixing up the real world with some random dystopian fantasy. The weirdest thing is that the peddler's if these dystopian fictions start by claiming it is the government who are scaring people shitless (does anyone know anyone actually scared by government advice?) when it is they who are offering a truly horrifying vision of how the world works while offering no way out of the nightmare world they have created and want others to inhabit. My dystopian vision is that of a world filled with a bunch of passive loners terrified of the real world trying to entice others into their lonely paranoid fantasies so as not to feel so alone in a world they don't really understand. I'm sure Michael Crichton would do a better job of spinning that particular yarn than me. Or is it just too true for fiction? In order to head off any accusations of hypocrisy I'd like to offer a way out of my particular dystopian nightmare: perspective. Let's start with cows: What about those mixing the real world with a zombie apocalypse nightmare, for something no more serious than the flu? And in many cases actually is the flu. It's the overreaction to this that is directly and seriously affecting people right now, not your pet hate of people trying to work out what's going on. Psychologically funnelled towards an unnecessary vaccine and 'freedom' pass. In their own documents it says they wish to increase the sense of threat (fear) in the public. Are people allowed to do what they want, or not? Are they being controlled or not? It's already being seen that state has overreached its involvement in people's lives. And let's be clear, once people accept an Orwellian named 'freedom' pass for their own freedom, and to simply do usual stuff, it's absolutely no longer freedom. It's a control pass. In fact, it's almost an admission from government, and acceptance from people, that we are 'imprisoned' in some way. And totally unnecessarily. And it's not a stretch to see the ramifications of such control, based on the evidence we've seen this year. So it's not insanity to be concerned about where this is potentially headed. And, that aside, the very real and actual ways people have had their lives totally screwed over is evident everywhere, it requires no internet to see this. Didn't you used to rant about a paedophilia ring in Parliament and high places etc. and it turned out everybody was believing 1 guy who was lying, and people like Leon Brittan died before his name was cleared ?
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 27, 2020 16:54:40 GMT
Has it ever occurred to you (or Starkiller) that it wasn't Covid that started all this but Brexit? Brexit was never about turning us into a libertarian utopia, but rather an authoritarian oligarchy. Covid has just handily helped to speed things up. But you voted for Brexit - so I guess you're fine with it. The only show of authoritarian oligarchy was the remainers who spent months spreading fear and lies before the vote And then spending three years not accepting it and trying everything they could to not to follow the wishes of the British public
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Post by franklin on Nov 27, 2020 16:56:44 GMT
Black Friday as we know and the centre of Frankfurt is rammed on a par with what I've seen at the Christmas market.
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Post by brumstokie on Nov 27, 2020 17:13:42 GMT
Just seen this ... Hartley-Brewer exposes the claim for what it is and Jenrick ends up tying himself up in knots. Does Jenrick have any self respect? Why would you put yourself in this position when you know damn well that you're going to have to lie your way through the day? “Honest Bob” has no problem being economical with the truth😏
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