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Post by dirtygary69 on Nov 26, 2020 12:30:34 GMT
RIP Stoke on Trent hospitality industry Village I live in is half in Staffs half in Shropshire. Pub in the village can't open but it's less than a mile to one that can. I'm about a mile inside Tier 2 at TF9. Wonder if you're close by.
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Post by werrington on Nov 26, 2020 12:31:20 GMT
Have they even fucked off the support bubble for tier 3 even though it’s been in for lockdown?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 26, 2020 12:32:18 GMT
Have they even fucked off the support bubble for tier 3 even though it’s been in for lockdown? No it's still there mate.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 26, 2020 12:32:52 GMT
That's the point he's making, even if you believe that lockdowns do work, there was no need to put the entire nation into one. So you need a regional tier system? This is what I don't get tbh. Take David Paton, who's data is very good and generally when he's impartial he's excellent. He will then say the tier system doesn't work and that lockdown doesn't work. Something fecking worked. I know you will probably bring immunity into it and I do think it is playing a bigger role than the government will say but I also think the tier system and the press conference Whitty and Vallance did where yeah they lied essentially but it was a scare tactic worked and refocussed minds. Which is exactly what needed to happen because I do think there was nonchelance with people after summer.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Nov 26, 2020 12:39:22 GMT
Still punishing the pubs I see. I’d have rather seen Port Vale win the Premier League than Corbyn as PM but this government, as alluded to in another thread, is an absolute shambles.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Nov 26, 2020 12:44:24 GMT
Is there anyone who voted Conservative last time who would change their minds if the election was tomorrow?
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 26, 2020 12:46:22 GMT
Is there anyone who voted Conservative last time who would change their minds if the election was tomorrow? I didn’t vote conservative last time but I would tomorrow
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Post by andystokey on Nov 26, 2020 12:46:33 GMT
So that ends the "fans back debate" for the time being at least
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 26, 2020 12:47:02 GMT
That's the point he's making, even if you believe that lockdowns do work, there was no need to put the entire nation into one. So you need a regional tier system? Judging by the comments on here by the usual suspects they're still not happy with that. Some people don't give a shit and won't be happy until there's a free for all.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Nov 26, 2020 12:47:32 GMT
Is there anyone who voted Conservative last time who would change their minds if the election was tomorrow? I didn’t vote conservative last time but I would tomorrow Why?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 26, 2020 12:48:16 GMT
That's the point he's making, even if you believe that lockdowns do work, there was no need to put the entire nation into one. So you need a regional tier system? This is what I don't get tbh. Take David Paton, who's data is very good and generally when he's impartial he's excellent. He will then say the tier system doesn't work and that lockdown doesn't work. Something fecking worked. I know you will probably bring immunity into it and I do think it is playing a bigger role than the government will say but I also think the tier system and the press conference Whitty and Vallance did where yeah they lied essentially but it was a scare tactic worked and refocussed minds. Which is exactly what needed to happen because I do think there was nonchelance with people after summer. I know exactly why Paton says that because it was clear that cases in Liverpool were already coming down before they went into tier 3, nevermind lockdown, same in lots of other areas too. There are plenty of people who correctly predicted the shape of this second curve, how it would go up, how it would plateau and then how it would ultimately start to come down. But those predictions weren't based on restrictions being implemented or indeed not being implemented, they were based on how a new virus would ordinarily perform based on seasonality and the development of community immunity. I don't want the CMO and the CSO lying (your word) to me, in order to get me to do something, I find that a rather sinister position to adopt if I'm honest.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 26, 2020 12:51:19 GMT
Village I live in is half in Staffs half in Shropshire. Pub in the village can't open but it's less than a mile to one that can. I'm about a mile inside Tier 2 at TF9. Wonder if you're close by. Possibly. Drayton's TF9 isn't it? - that's about 7 miles away. Bizarrely despite being half in Shropshire and half Staffs we've got Cheshire postcodes here so I'm trying to get on the website to see what we actually are (if the Govt's putting it together I'll probably log on to find they've got me down as living in Dorset!!).
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 26, 2020 12:53:58 GMT
So you need a regional tier system? This is what I don't get tbh. Take David Paton, who's data is very good and generally when he's impartial he's excellent. He will then say the tier system doesn't work and that lockdown doesn't work. Something fecking worked. I know you will probably bring immunity into it and I do think it is playing a bigger role than the government will say but I also think the tier system and the press conference Whitty and Vallance did where yeah they lied essentially but it was a scare tactic worked and refocussed minds. Which is exactly what needed to happen because I do think there was nonchelance with people after summer. I know exactly why Paton says that because it was clear that cases in Liverpool were already coming down before they went into tier 3, nevermind lockdown, same in lots of other areas too. There are plenty of people who correctly predicted the shape of this second curve, how it would go up, how it would plateau and then how it would ultimately start to come down. But those predictions weren't based on restrictions being implemented or indeed not being implemented, they were based on how a new virus would ordinarily perform based on seasonality and the development of community immunity. I don't want the CMO and the CSO lying (your word) to me, in order to get me to do something, I find that a rather sinister position to adopt if I'm honest. Yeah the restrcitions in tier 2 were working, which he'd get rid of as well. I just find it amusing tbh and Hackett imo has hit the nail on the head with his reply. Why? We get lied to all the time for our own good. People cannot be trusted and sometimes need a bit of fear as a straightener. We live in a country imo that at the present is far too dumbed down for people to actually be trusted and to act responsbly. It's all a bit Americam, which makes me sad. I can absolutely see why they did it because tbh the great British public aren't to be trusted with the vagueries and complexities of that situation.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Nov 26, 2020 12:55:25 GMT
I'm about a mile inside Tier 2 at TF9. Wonder if you're close by. Possibly. Drayton's TF9 isn't it? - that's about 7 miles away. Bizarrely despite being half in Shropshire and half Staffs we've got Cheshire postcodes here so I'm trying to get on the website to see what we actually are (if the Govt's putting it together I'll probably log on to find they've got me down as living in Dorset!!). Yeah, we're about 3 miles from Drayton so you must be about where I thought you were with your CW postcodes! It's madness really, but not sure how else they can do it?
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Post by danceswithclams on Nov 26, 2020 13:02:56 GMT
British public aren't to be trusted with the vagueries and complexities of that situation.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 26, 2020 13:04:09 GMT
I didn’t vote conservative last time but I would tomorrow Why? Because the Brexit party would be unlikely to be fielding a candidate???
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 26, 2020 13:07:34 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 26, 2020 13:08:43 GMT
Lol. They should leave the important releases for Peston and Keunssberg to do. They might have little more principle but at least they are semi competent at doing it. This is all of it mate
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Post by danceswithclams on Nov 26, 2020 13:08:56 GMT
I wouldn’t bet on it in tier two Only households / support bubble can sit together People can only have a beer with food So a pint In my local Wetherspoons is no longer £1.80 a pint It’s around £6.00 and I have to have a shit plate of food with it ...and you'd still be in a Wetherspoons.
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 26, 2020 13:09:18 GMT
Catastrophic news for Staffordshire publicans like me. Inbox already flooded with people wanting to know what’s happening with their Christmas deposits and thirty members of staff worried sick about their futures.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Nov 26, 2020 13:10:09 GMT
Yes but it's given a misleading impression to the public. I was fully under the impression that the Oxford vaccine was going to work pretty well for the elderly but now that doesn't seem that that is necessarily the case. What do you think about what Porges said ... did Oxford deliberately embellish their results or have they just been sloppy? The Phase 2 data contains elderly folks but largely on the healthier side, it came out around 5 days before the 70% efficacy claim in fairness and is published in the Lancet so it’s been looked at an assessed and I think the comments on it were fair enough at that stage. The issue is the proximity to the phase 3 interim data which contains the muddled analyses and undermines it. I don’t think it’s embellishment per se, I think it’s the fact their protocol is a bit muddled compared to Pfizer and Moderna and the fact no one can yet look at how they’ve reached that figure because we can’t yet probe the maths behind the power analysis or how they’ve combined the studies in depth. Which Moderna and Pfizer haven’t have to do because they are single, massive trials. Again though, even if that number came out as legitimately 90% as for the others it still needs assessing for how many severe cases does it stop/is it stopping transmission etc. If they are trying to embellish they’ve done it poorly because they’ve shafted themselves in the US, which makes me believe it was more sloppiness. I agree with his statement about you can’t judge much on interim data, that applies for all 3 so far and that’s why I urge caution whenever this stuff comes out (also a hangover of my job I guess)Trials are still ongoing and we will need that extra data.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 26, 2020 13:11:58 GMT
I know exactly why Paton says that because it was clear that cases in Liverpool were already coming down before they went into tier 3, nevermind lockdown, same in lots of other areas too. There are plenty of people who correctly predicted the shape of this second curve, how it would go up, how it would plateau and then how it would ultimately start to come down. But those predictions weren't based on restrictions being implemented or indeed not being implemented, they were based on how a new virus would ordinarily perform based on seasonality and the development of community immunity. I don't want the CMO and the CSO lying (your word) to me, in order to get me to do something, I find that a rather sinister position to adopt if I'm honest. Yeah the restrcitions in tier 2 were working, which he'd get rid of as well. I just find it amusing tbh and Hackett imo has hit the nail on the head with his reply. Why? We get lied to all the time for our own good. People cannot be trusted and sometimes need a bit of fear as a straightener. We live in a country imo that at the present is far too dumbed down for people to actually be trusted and to act responsbly. It's all a bit Americam, which makes me sad. I can absolutely see why they did it because tbh the great British public aren't to be trusted with the vagueries and complexities of that situation. Wow ... is all I can say to that mate.
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Post by Davef on Nov 26, 2020 13:14:11 GMT
Yeah the restrcitions in tier 2 were working, which he'd get rid of as well. I just find it amusing tbh and Hackett imo has hit the nail on the head with his reply. Why? We get lied to all the time for our own good. People cannot be trusted and sometimes need a bit of fear as a straightener. We live in a country imo that at the present is far too dumbed down for people to actually be trusted and to act responsbly. It's all a bit Americam, which makes me sad. I can absolutely see why they did it because tbh the great British public aren't to be trusted with the vagueries and complexities of that situation. Wow ... is all I can say to that mate. I'd have bolded and underlined the rest of the paragraph.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 26, 2020 13:17:07 GMT
Yes but it's given a misleading impression to the public. I was fully under the impression that the Oxford vaccine was going to work pretty well for the elderly but now that doesn't seem that that is necessarily the case. What do you think about what Porges said ... did Oxford deliberately embellish their results or have they just been sloppy? The Phase 2 data contains elderly folks but largely on the healthier side, it came out around 5 days before the 70% efficacy claim in fairness and is published in the Lancet so it’s been looked at an assessed and I think the comments on it were fair enough at that stage. The issue is the proximity to the phase 3 interim data which contains the muddled analyses and undermines it. I don’t think it’s embellishment per se, I think it’s the fact their protocol is a bit muddled compared to Pfizer and Moderna and the fact no one can yet look at how they’ve reached that figure because we can’t yet probe the maths behind the power analysis or how they’ve combined the studies in depth. Which Moderna and Pfizer haven’t have to do because they are single, massive trials. Again though, even if that number came out as legitimately 90% as for the others it still needs assessing for how many severe cases does it stop/is it stopping transmission etc. If they are trying to embellish they’ve done it poorly because they’ve shafted themselves in the US, which makes me believe it was more sloppiness. I agree with his statement about you can’t judge much on interim data, that applies for all 3 so far and that’s why I urge caution whenever this stuff comes out. Trials are still ongoing and we will need that extra data. Thanks for that Matt. This question might be unfair of me to ask, so if it is, please don't be afraid to say as much but do you think there's any chance that the Government might think that even if the Oxford vaccine ultimately isn't as effective as the other vaccines, they might still go with it for the majority of the vaccinations, simply because it costs a fraction of the other vaccines and can be stored in ordinary refrigerators?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 26, 2020 13:17:30 GMT
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Post by Gob Bluth on Nov 26, 2020 13:21:22 GMT
Ashworth asked whether the support package would be reviewed but I'm not sure if Hancock answered it. Does anyone know if the package for Tier 3s is a set amount for however long you're in Tier 3 or is it a weekly?
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Post by andystokey on Nov 26, 2020 13:21:57 GMT
So you regard EVERYTHING linked to on Twitter as 'shit' Chad? Not everything mate Just about 90%. I know there’s loads on here who think the MSM is all in a great conspiracy but I’d take BBC/ ITV/ Mail or Mirror over twitter any day of the week Ok, well it's on the BBC1 o'clock news now if that helps.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 26, 2020 13:22:31 GMT
Yeah the restrcitions in tier 2 were working, which he'd get rid of as well. I just find it amusing tbh and Hackett imo has hit the nail on the head with his reply. Why? We get lied to all the time for our own good. People cannot be trusted and sometimes need a bit of fear as a straightener. We live in a country imo that at the present is far too dumbed down for people to actually be trusted and to act responsbly. It's all a bit Americam, which makes me sad. I can absolutely see why they did it because tbh the great British public aren't to be trusted with the vagueries and complexities of that situation. Wow ... is all I can say to that mate. Why wow? It generally works and generally it's stuff we don't need to know about. This I can see the argument of needing to know and the discourse does need to be more open. But in terms of general life, the government will lie to us and it will be for own goods. I don't see why that's wow tbh. It makes me feel safer not knowing tbh.
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 26, 2020 13:27:20 GMT
I wouldn’t bet on it in tier two Only households / support bubble can sit together People can only have a beer with food So a pint In my local Wetherspoons is no longer £1.80 a pint It’s around £6.00 and I have to have a shit plate of food with it ...and you'd still be in a Wetherspoons. I pop in my local Wetherspoons for a pint now and again to see one of my lads who works in there I certainly don’t eat in it if I don’t have to But all my locals will under tier 2 have to remain shut which to me is a utter disgrace
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 26, 2020 13:31:52 GMT
Wow ... is all I can say to that mate. Why wow? It generally works and generally it's stuff we don't need to know about. This I can see the argument of needing to know and the discourse does need to be more open. But in terms of general life, the government will lie to us and it will be for own goods. I don't see why that's wow tbh. It makes me feel safer not knowing tbh. I'm really struggling to get my head around this. Can you give me a couple of examples where you think it's in our interests that the government lie to us?
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