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Post by andystokey on Nov 23, 2020 8:47:21 GMT
Unfortunately it's far more insidious than a bunch of kids with a comic book fixation. The main aim of the fake news brigade is to undermine faith in credible news and information sources and shake confidence in science and people with credibility in their field of technical expertise - it removes anything that might provide a reliable map of the world actually works. The aim is to turn all debate into a battle of opinions - evidence becomes an opinion piece. Once you've bought into the "fake news" world you're hooked - truth is defined in terms of consistency with the prescribed set of conspiracy theories and as evidence is rendered important and all other information sources are fake their is no way out. The true believers are to all intent and purpose been brainwashed. You can trace a lot of this to American alt right politics which Trump successfully tapped into when he got elected - in fact "fake news" became something of a mantra of his campaign team. It's really scary - and it's no longer the preserve of AK45 waiving nutjobs living in a remote forest in deliverance country. Its over here. Yeah, it's quite dangerous really, and amazing how many folk will allow themselves to get swayed by a random unverified youtube video when it suits. What I find entertaining about these people, though, is the degree of cognitive dissonance you must have to engage in to cling to this kind of thinking. So, any old link to any old source claiming any old thing about the "plandemic" being based on questionable and dodgy science is fair enough, and "proof" that something other than the obvious is being orchestrated from "somewhere". But where will these people turn to if and when they get ill? Surely not the same medical community which has based its entire modern evolution on the evaluation of scientific data in order to improve treatment over many decades? I mean, why trust any of it? These people should be told to go away and pray for a cure instead, because they don't believe in the virus or question all the data or believe it's all fake. Let's see then how strong their convictions are about the fraudulence of it all! I'm guessing not very! Luckily for them, the medical community is not quite so full of idiots and they'll treat whoever needs treating. But there are loads of people who deny it exists. Some on here. To say otherwise is simply wrong. Does malaria, heart disease, yellow fever, diphtheria, TB, whooping cough, mumps, influenza, pneumonia, cancer and on and on? Of course. Let's just ask then, anyone deny the virus exists? Did you get anyone on here responding to this?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2020 8:59:07 GMT
We made the most ineffective one so far, wooooo go Britain!*
*yes I’m being facetious and yes I know it’s better than the other 2 for wider distribution
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 23, 2020 9:04:33 GMT
23rd to the 27th for Christmas relaxation according to Peston just Breaking news. On a Sunday night. I cant believe how they go about their business. Watch Songs of Praise, text Kuenssberg and Peston the details, job done......
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 9:05:46 GMT
Any feedback on this estrangedsonoffaye ? Is 70% enough to have a significant impact? Apparently its potentially 90% effective, with tweaking of dosages.
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Post by StaffordPotter on Nov 23, 2020 9:07:06 GMT
That’s the final nail in the coffin for the hospitality industry then, their busiest time of year and their one chance at recouping some revenue and they’re not going to be given that chance, despicable. Hope you all enjoy scrabble for passing the time because a lot of pubs and restaurants are about to go under for good. Fuck gyms Open up the pubs far more important to more people Employe far more and brings far more to the exchequer Fuck gyms? Do you realise how much good they do for people's mental health? Add that to the fact that the virus has seen the lowest cases caught in them then I'd say they should be a priority to stay open.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 23, 2020 9:07:59 GMT
Yeah, it's quite dangerous really, and amazing how many folk will allow themselves to get swayed by a random unverified youtube video when it suits. What I find entertaining about these people, though, is the degree of cognitive dissonance you must have to engage in to cling to this kind of thinking. So, any old link to any old source claiming any old thing about the "plandemic" being based on questionable and dodgy science is fair enough, and "proof" that something other than the obvious is being orchestrated from "somewhere". But where will these people turn to if and when they get ill? Surely not the same medical community which has based its entire modern evolution on the evaluation of scientific data in order to improve treatment over many decades? I mean, why trust any of it? These people should be told to go away and pray for a cure instead, because they don't believe in the virus or question all the data or believe it's all fake. Let's see then how strong their convictions are about the fraudulence of it all! I'm guessing not very! Luckily for them, the medical community is not quite so full of idiots and they'll treat whoever needs treating. Does malaria, heart disease, yellow fever, diphtheria, TB, whooping cough, mumps, influenza, pneumonia, cancer and on and on? Of course. Let's just ask then, anyone deny the virus exists? Did you get anyone on here responding to this? Of course not! No-one's brave enough to be that open about it! However, Starkiller has denied the existence of the virus multiple times on this very thread, but he's also extremely good at disappearing when it suits! There are several others who have called it fake and a sham etc. And elsewhere off this board, there are dozens, hundreds of websites claiming it's all fake! QAnon being the obvious one. I'll stick to my original opinion from many months back, that this is just one of hundreds of pandemics mankind has been through during its existence as a species, and that, in a couple of years' time, with the benefit of hindsight, a lot of folk will be feeling a bit silly about claiming it was all fake, scaremongering and part of a planned dystopian future aimed at ushering in totalitarian population control (all of which very much have been claimed on this thread numerous times)! There'll be an awful lot of hiding and or revisionism of previously sacrosanct theories going on! In fact, a lot of that will probably start fairly soon after the mass roll-out of the vaccine programme and a slow return to normal life...
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 23, 2020 9:10:44 GMT
Any feedback on this estrangedsonoffaye ? Is 70% enough to have a significant impact? Apparently its potentially 90% effective, with tweaking of dosages. The article says anything above 50% is usually “considered a triumph” and that “70% is comfortably better than the seasonal flu jab”. The two other factors that make this, possibly, the best vaccine news is it can be stored at regular fridge temperature and is massively cheaper than the others costing “around £3... far less than Pfizer's (around £15) or Moderna's (£25) vaccines”.
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Post by andystokey on Nov 23, 2020 9:20:18 GMT
Did you get anyone on here responding to this? Of course not! No-one's brave enough to be that open about it! However, Starkiller has denied the existence of the virus multiple times on this very thread, but he's also extremely good at disappearing when it suits! There are several others who have called it fake and a sham etc. And elsewhere off this board, there are dozens, hundreds of websites claiming it's all fake! QAnon being the obvious one. I'll stick to my original opinion from many months back, that this is just one of hundreds of pandemics mankind has been through during its existence as a species, and that, in a couple of years' time, with the benefit of hindsight, a lot of folk will be feeling a bit silly about claiming it was all fake, scaremongering and part of a planned dystopian future aimed at ushering in totalitarian population control (all of which very much have been claimed on this thread numerous times)! There'll be an awful lot of hiding and or revisionism of previously sacrosanct theories going on! In fact, a lot of that will probably start fairly soon after the mass roll-out of the vaccine programme and a slow return to normal life... I thought these people were everywhere, poisoning everyone's mind. It's not much of a campaign of misinformation if no one is brave enough to talk about it. An alternative more plausible view, might be that you are wrong and getting a bit hysterical about something that no one has said on here.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2020 9:22:10 GMT
We made the most ineffective one so far, wooooo go Britain!* *yes I’m being facetious and yes I know it’s better than the other 2 for wider distribution More faeces than facetious. Not really. We’ve backed the 3 legged horse again 😂
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Post by phileetin on Nov 23, 2020 9:27:13 GMT
Any feedback on this estrangedsonoffaye ? Is 70% enough to have a significant impact? Apparently its potentially 90% effective, with tweaking of dosages. The article says anything above 50% is usually “considered a triumph” and that “70% is comfortably better than the seasonal flu jab”. The two other factors that make this, possibly, the best vaccine news is it can be stored at regular fridge temperature and is massively cheaper than the others costing “around £3... far less than Pfizer's (around £15) or Moderna's (£25) vaccines”. I'm in a vulnerable group and will probably be in part of the first wave of recipients of a covid drug .
From a personal perspective I think I'd probably prefer the smaller dosage followed by the larger one. The 90 % effective one dose jabs will probably be reserved for the upper echelons of society ,
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 23, 2020 9:28:34 GMT
Of course not! No-one's brave enough to be that open about it! However, Starkiller has denied the existence of the virus multiple times on this very thread, but he's also extremely good at disappearing when it suits! There are several others who have called it fake and a sham etc. And elsewhere off this board, there are dozens, hundreds of websites claiming it's all fake! QAnon being the obvious one. I'll stick to my original opinion from many months back, that this is just one of hundreds of pandemics mankind has been through during its existence as a species, and that, in a couple of years' time, with the benefit of hindsight, a lot of folk will be feeling a bit silly about claiming it was all fake, scaremongering and part of a planned dystopian future aimed at ushering in totalitarian population control (all of which very much have been claimed on this thread numerous times)! There'll be an awful lot of hiding and or revisionism of previously sacrosanct theories going on! In fact, a lot of that will probably start fairly soon after the mass roll-out of the vaccine programme and a slow return to normal life... I thought these people were everywhere, poisoning everyone's mind. It's not much of a campaign of misinformation if no one is brave enough to talk about it. An alternative more plausible view, might be that you are wrong and getting a bit hysterical about something that no one has said on here. 'Inventing' a virus gives the opportunity to make it do whatever you want. It means numbers can played with at will to control a population, moving these numbers up and down accordingly to scare people, and play with fear and panic. It means any vague symptoms, currently ranging from 'no illness at all' to death, can be added to the list. A pretty broad spectrum there. This makes it far easier to stamp Covid19 on death certificates, which is being done on symptoms alone. A real, genuinely deadly virus would be difficult to control and not be able to be used for a purpose, and it would have a list of more quantifiable symptoms. Don't believe the hype. We are being played. Just a couple of numerous over the last six months! Try reading QAnon too for wider evidence of conspiracy theorising. Is it safe to assume you're similarly unconvinced by the reality, Andy?
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 23, 2020 9:45:16 GMT
The article says anything above 50% is usually “considered a triumph” and that “70% is comfortably better than the seasonal flu jab”. The two other factors that make this, possibly, the best vaccine news is it can be stored at regular fridge temperature and is massively cheaper than the others costing “around £3... far less than Pfizer's (around £15) or Moderna's (£25) vaccines”. I'm in a vulnerable group and will probably be in part of the first wave of recipients of a covid drug . From a personal perspective I think I'd probably prefer the smaller dosage followed by the larger one. The 90 % effective one dose jabs will probably be reserved for the upper echelons of society ,
Good luck with this. Light at the end of the tunnel. It’s an interesting question one who gets what bearing in mind that the Oxford vaccine is more effective than the current flu jab. I wonder if it will be determined by where the cold temperature storage facilities are so maybe hospital admissions and staff will get the Pfizer one or maybe most at risk on the basis that for anyone under 50 70% or 90+% doesn’t really make much difference.
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Post by andystokey on Nov 23, 2020 9:53:05 GMT
I thought these people were everywhere, poisoning everyone's mind. It's not much of a campaign of misinformation if no one is brave enough to talk about it. An alternative more plausible view, might be that you are wrong and getting a bit hysterical about something that no one has said on here. 'Inventing' a virus gives the opportunity to make it do whatever you want. It means numbers can played with at will to control a population, moving these numbers up and down accordingly to scare people, and play with fear and panic. It means any vague symptoms, currently ranging from 'no illness at all' to death, can be added to the list. A pretty broad spectrum there. This makes it far easier to stamp Covid19 on death certificates, which is being done on symptoms alone. A real, genuinely deadly virus would be difficult to control and not be able to be used for a purpose, and it would have a list of more quantifiable symptoms. Just one of numerousover the last six months! Is it safe to assume you're similarly unconvinced by the reality, Andy? The reality is that the world population has been infected with a novel Coronavirus. Do I agree with the current response to events I'm probably it's fair to say sceptical and I probably think it's badly researched, disproportionate, incompetent and poorly implemented. Her Britannic Majesty's close family have been infected so even being related to "Queen of the lizard people" didn't make them immune. So I'm not a Covid denier.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2020 10:02:07 GMT
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Post by starkiller on Nov 23, 2020 10:13:36 GMT
I thought these people were everywhere, poisoning everyone's mind. It's not much of a campaign of misinformation if no one is brave enough to talk about it. An alternative more plausible view, might be that you are wrong and getting a bit hysterical about something that no one has said on here. 'Inventing' a virus gives the opportunity to make it do whatever you want. It means numbers can played with at will to control a population, moving these numbers up and down accordingly to scare people, and play with fear and panic. It means any vague symptoms, currently ranging from 'no illness at all' to death, can be added to the list. A pretty broad spectrum there. This makes it far easier to stamp Covid19 on death certificates, which is being done on symptoms alone. A real, genuinely deadly virus would be difficult to control and not be able to be used for a purpose, and it would have a list of more quantifiable symptoms. Don't believe the hype. We are being played. Just a couple of numerous over the last six months! Try reading QAnon too for wider evidence of conspiracy theorising. Is it safe to assume you're similarly unconvinced by the reality, Andy? I used the word invented in commas. Every year there are new strains. This is nothing special, and it affects the same people that are affected with every other strain. Giving it a special name makes no difference. And it is not deadly pandemic. Everything else I said in that statement is what has been happening. Number of deaths under 65, with no other conditions that could contribute to death is 339. And of those 339, they have been diagnosed with a rigged test, and fit under rule of dying from ANY CAUSE within 28 days of said test. Without the news, the measures, criminal mislabelling, the care home policy, medical neglect, and lockdown deaths, this would be a normal year.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2020 10:22:09 GMT
Without 70,000 excess deaths this would be a normal year.
FFS
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Post by starkiller on Nov 23, 2020 10:27:18 GMT
Without 70,000 excess deaths this would be a normal year. FFS Look where they have actually come from. I put it in that list.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 23, 2020 10:28:06 GMT
Of course not! No-one's brave enough to be that open about it! However, Starkiller has denied the existence of the virus multiple times on this very thread, but he's also extremely good at disappearing when it suits! There are several others who have called it fake and a sham etc. And elsewhere off this board, there are dozens, hundreds of websites claiming it's all fake! QAnon being the obvious one. I'll stick to my original opinion from many months back, that this is just one of hundreds of pandemics mankind has been through during its existence as a species, and that, in a couple of years' time, with the benefit of hindsight, a lot of folk will be feeling a bit silly about claiming it was all fake, scaremongering and part of a planned dystopian future aimed at ushering in totalitarian population control (all of which very much have been claimed on this thread numerous times)! There'll be an awful lot of hiding and or revisionism of previously sacrosanct theories going on! In fact, a lot of that will probably start fairly soon after the mass roll-out of the vaccine programme and a slow return to normal life... I thought these people were everywhere, poisoning everyone's mind. It's not much of a campaign of misinformation if no one is brave enough to talk about it. An alternative more plausible view, might be that you are wrong and getting a bit hysterical about something that no one has said on here. Starkiller has been banging on about his Covid denial theories on almost every page of this thread - he has said on a number of occasions that the virus isn't real, it's part of a global plot orchestrated by the WHO and the WEF to implement the "Great Reset", the world's governments are in on it and all excess deaths in this country over the last can be explained by the issuing of DNR forms in care homes as part of a government backed cull of the old. Not every lockdown sceptic holds these extreme views but when it suits Starkiller has found support from sympathisers with right wing political views and every now and again someone has slipped in a conspiracy theory reference among other perfectly credible information sources. It isn't that vast numbers have bought wholesale into these libertarian alt right conspiracy theories but they are creeping into what is becoming an increasingly polarised debate - clearly without some people even knowing it. Which is scary. It's got to the point where the number of people buying into the whole Qanon/anti-vaxxer/covid denial conspiracy stuff has risen to the point where it is now newsworthy and the mainstream media are picking up on the problem - for example see here as to how it can impact on a personal level. This stuff is also dangerous at a public level as well. According to this article 28% of american's believe conspiracy theory claims about the covid vaccine being used to alter DNA or put microchips into people - that's enough to derail any vaccination program. We are no where near the level of belief in conspiracy theories than the US but it's creeping in and it's tentacles are definitely present in this thread. I'm not saying conspiracy theorists should be banned from this thread - but I am saying people should take a long had look at where these ideas are coming from and ask themselves if they are happy as to where they are heading. For example a despotic leader who has convinced a sufficient number of people to mistrust the mainstream media to achieve significant support to try and overturn a legitimate democratic process. Nah - too far fetched.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 23, 2020 10:33:28 GMT
Just a couple of numerous over the last six months! Try reading QAnon too for wider evidence of conspiracy theorising. Is it safe to assume you're similarly unconvinced by the reality, Andy? I used the word invented in commas. Every year there are new strains. This is nothing special, and it affects the same people that are affected with every other strain. Giving it a special name makes no difference. And it is not deadly pandemic. Everything else I said in that statement is what has been happening. Number of deaths under 65, with no other conditions that could contribute to death is 339. And of those 339, they have been diagnosed with a rigged test, and fit under rule of dying from ANY CAUSE within 28 days of said test. Without the news, the measures, criminal mislabelling, the care home policy, medical neglect, and lockdown deaths, this would be a normal year. You're totally backtracking there. What a complete fool you are.
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Post by Gods on Nov 23, 2020 10:34:29 GMT
Need to stay careful with this Xmas family opening thing, you'd kick uourself if you gave someone close to you and vulnerable more than a present such that they're not there at Easter. Just saying.
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Post by starkiller on Nov 23, 2020 10:34:47 GMT
I thought these people were everywhere, poisoning everyone's mind. It's not much of a campaign of misinformation if no one is brave enough to talk about it. An alternative more plausible view, might be that you are wrong and getting a bit hysterical about something that no one has said on here. Starkiller has been banging on about his Covid denial theories on almost every page of this thread - he has said on a number of occasions that the virus isn't real, it's part of a global plot orchestrated by the WHO and the WEF to implement the "Great Reset", the world's governments are in on it and all excess deaths in this country over the last can be explained by the issuing of DNR forms in care homes as part of a government backed cull of the old. Not every lockdown sceptic holds these extreme views but when it suits Starkiller has found support from sympathisers with right wing political views and every now and again someone has slipped in a conspiracy theory reference among other perfectly credible information sources. It isn't that vast numbers have bought wholesale into these libertarian alt right conspiracy theories but they are creeping into what is becoming an increasingly polarised debate - clearly without some people even knowing it. Which is scary. It's got to the point where the number of people buying into the whole Qanon/anti-vaxxer/covid denial conspiracy stuff has risen to the point where it is now newsworthy and the mainstream media are picking up on the problem - for example see here as to how it can impact on a personal level. This stuff is also dangerous at a public level as well. According to this article 28% of american's believe conspiracy theory claims about the covid vaccine being used to alter DNA or put microchips into people - that's enough to derail any vaccination program. We are no where near the level of belief in conspiracy theories than the US but it's creeping in and it's tentacles are definitely present in this thread. I'm not saying conspiracy theorists should be banned from this thread - but I am saying people should take a long had look at where these ideas are coming from and ask themselves if they are happy as to where they are heading. For example a despotic leader who has convinced a sufficient number of people to mistrust the mainstream media to achieve significant support to try and overturn a legitimate democratic process. Nah - too far fetched. The biggest problem with a vaccine is that it's totally unnecessary, and to force upon people through removing services is a dangerous precedent to set for something with little trialling. I have a right not to have any tampering with my immune system. An immune system that has worked perfectly throughout 'the most deadly pandemic for a century'. It's either: A deadly pandemic and my immune system has proven fine, therefore I don't need a vaccine. Or: It's proven not a deadly pandemic, therefore I don't need a vaccine. And: those that want to take a vaccine, should have no worries as they believe they will be protected. Therefore I don't need a vaccine. If it is not effective then it makes no difference whether they or I take the vaccine. Therefore I also don't need a vaccine.
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Post by Davef on Nov 23, 2020 10:53:37 GMT
There have been 819 Covid related deaths in South Dakota, population 899,714. By my reckoning, that 0.09% of the state's population.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 23, 2020 10:55:25 GMT
Starkiller has been banging on about his Covid denial theories on almost every page of this thread - he has said on a number of occasions that the virus isn't real, it's part of a global plot orchestrated by the WHO and the WEF to implement the "Great Reset", the world's governments are in on it and all excess deaths in this country over the last can be explained by the issuing of DNR forms in care homes as part of a government backed cull of the old. Not every lockdown sceptic holds these extreme views but when it suits Starkiller has found support from sympathisers with right wing political views and every now and again someone has slipped in a conspiracy theory reference among other perfectly credible information sources. It isn't that vast numbers have bought wholesale into these libertarian alt right conspiracy theories but they are creeping into what is becoming an increasingly polarised debate - clearly without some people even knowing it. Which is scary. It's got to the point where the number of people buying into the whole Qanon/anti-vaxxer/covid denial conspiracy stuff has risen to the point where it is now newsworthy and the mainstream media are picking up on the problem - for example see here as to how it can impact on a personal level. This stuff is also dangerous at a public level as well. According to this article 28% of american's believe conspiracy theory claims about the covid vaccine being used to alter DNA or put microchips into people - that's enough to derail any vaccination program. We are no where near the level of belief in conspiracy theories than the US but it's creeping in and it's tentacles are definitely present in this thread. I'm not saying conspiracy theorists should be banned from this thread - but I am saying people should take a long had look at where these ideas are coming from and ask themselves if they are happy as to where they are heading. For example a despotic leader who has convinced a sufficient number of people to mistrust the mainstream media to achieve significant support to try and overturn a legitimate democratic process. Nah - too far fetched. The biggest problem with a vaccine is that it's totally unnecessary, and to force upon people through removing services is a dangerous precedent to set for something with little trialling. I have a right not to have any tampering with my immune system. An immune system that has worked perfectly throughout 'the most deadly pandemic for a century'. It's either: A deadly pandemic and my immune system has proven fine, therefore I don't need a vaccine. Or: It's proven not a deadly pandemic, therefore I don't need a vaccine. And: those that want to take a vaccine, should have no worries as they believe they will be protected. Therefore I don't need a vaccine. If it is not effective then it makes no difference whether they or I take the vaccine. Therefore I also don't need a vaccine. 1) older adults’ resident in a care home and care home workers 2) all those 80 years of age and over and health and social care workers 3) all those 75 years of age and over 4) all those 70 years of age and over 5) all those 65 years of age and over 6) high-risk adults under 65 years of age 7) moderate-risk adults under 65 years of age 8) all those 60 years of age and over 9) all those 55 years of age and over 10) all those 50 years of age and over 11) rest of the population (priority to be determined) If like me you're 11th on the list I wouldn't worry about it to be honest, focus your energies elsewhere.......
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 23, 2020 10:57:23 GMT
I thought these people were everywhere, poisoning everyone's mind. It's not much of a campaign of misinformation if no one is brave enough to talk about it. An alternative more plausible view, might be that you are wrong and getting a bit hysterical about something that no one has said on here. Starkiller has been banging on about his Covid denial theories on almost every page of this thread - he has said on a number of occasions that the virus isn't real, it's part of a global plot orchestrated by the WHO and the WEF to implement the "Great Reset", the world's governments are in on it and all excess deaths in this country over the last can be explained by the issuing of DNR forms in care homes as part of a government backed cull of the old. Not every lockdown sceptic holds these extreme views but when it suits Starkiller has found support from sympathisers with right wing political views and every now and again someone has slipped in a conspiracy theory reference among other perfectly credible information sources. It isn't that vast numbers have bought wholesale into these libertarian alt right conspiracy theories but they are creeping into what is becoming an increasingly polarised debate - clearly without some people even knowing it. Which is scary. It's got to the point where the number of people buying into the whole Qanon/anti-vaxxer/covid denial conspiracy stuff has risen to the point where it is now newsworthy and the mainstream media are picking up on the problem - for example see here as to how it can impact on a personal level. This stuff is also dangerous at a public level as well. According to this article 28% of american's believe conspiracy theory claims about the covid vaccine being used to alter DNA or put microchips into people - that's enough to derail any vaccination program. We are no where near the level of belief in conspiracy theories than the US but it's creeping in and it's tentacles are definitely present in this thread. I'm not saying conspiracy theorists should be banned from this thread - but I am saying people should take a long had look at where these ideas are coming from and ask themselves if they are happy as to where they are heading. For example a despotic leader who has convinced a sufficient number of people to mistrust the mainstream media to achieve significant support to try and overturn a legitimate democratic process. Nah - too far fetched. We have to accept the first step toward conspiracy thinking is losing trust in the default narrative. This is completely rational as the actors in the default narrative, ones that only 40-50 years ago had a lot of trust in the bank, have been lying about absoluteit everything to the point that now we have peer to peer information sharing there is a massive vacuum of trust and a deluge of information/ bullshit. I realise they couldnt see the impacts of the internet clearly, but they lost the trust in an era they thought thet could abuse it. And here we are. A colossal shit show.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Nov 23, 2020 11:05:02 GMT
Any feedback on this estrangedsonoffaye ? Is 70% enough to have a significant impact? Apparently its potentially 90% effective, with tweaking of dosages. 70% is fine for a first pass, and the added ease of distribution and storage, plus the fact this is a vaccine tech that has been in development for the better part of a decade and already trialled in people over that time (See the Oxford MERS/other diseases trials using the same viral vector) means that it’s technically the most “complete” picture of the 3 so far. The big issue with using a viral vector is you also get immunity to the virus the payload is delivered in, so if you need two doses of it, the second dose it less effective because the immune system hammers it before it can reach your cells. This is why in an ideal world you would use something called “heterologous prime boost” which is just a fancy terms for using a different viral vector for any booster to avoid the vector immunity conferred by the first dose. As far as I’m aware, that second viral vector (called modified vaccinia Ankara a former smallpox strain that got modified by replicating in chicken cells for a decade over the 50s and 60s to change it so it lost its pathogenicity) has not been trialled, so instead we may see refinement of the first dose with the Oxford vaccine, or people receiving the Oxford vaccine getting booster by one of the other two.
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 23, 2020 11:05:33 GMT
Need to stay careful with this Xmas family opening thing, you'd kick uourself if you gave someone close to you and vulnerable more than a present such that they're not there at Easter. Just saying. I cant remember who said it but someone mentioned this following comment over the weekend on TV - along the lines of: Its better to 'face time' this Christmas instead of having an ICU Christmas..... Still the 'know alls' know better hey !
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2020 11:14:26 GMT
Any feedback on this estrangedsonoffaye ? Is 70% enough to have a significant impact? Apparently its potentially 90% effective, with tweaking of dosages. 70% is fine for a first pass, and the added ease of distribution and storage, plus the fact this is a vaccine tech that has been in development for the better part of a decade and already trialled in people over that time (See the Oxford MERS/other diseases trials using the same viral vector) means that it’s technically the most “complete” picture of the 3 so far. The big issue with using a viral vector is you also get immunity to the virus the payload is delivered in, so if you need two doses of it, the second dose it less effective because the immune system hammers it before it can reach your cells. This is why in an ideal world you would use something called “heterologous prime boost” which is just a fancy terms for using a different viral vector for any booster to avoid the vector immunity conferred by the first dose. As far as I’m aware, that second viral vector (called modified vaccinia Ankara a former smallpox strain that got modified by replicating in chicken cells for a decade over the 50s and 60s to change it so it lost its pathogenicity) has not been trialled, so instead we may see refinement of the first dose with the Oxford vaccine, or people receiving the Oxford vaccine getting booster by one of the other two. Could that be why the smaller dose first and then a larger dose is more effective? It allows the second dose to actually get in do its thing?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Nov 23, 2020 11:16:54 GMT
70% is fine for a first pass, and the added ease of distribution and storage, plus the fact this is a vaccine tech that has been in development for the better part of a decade and already trialled in people over that time (See the Oxford MERS/other diseases trials using the same viral vector) means that it’s technically the most “complete” picture of the 3 so far. The big issue with using a viral vector is you also get immunity to the virus the payload is delivered in, so if you need two doses of it, the second dose it less effective because the immune system hammers it before it can reach your cells. This is why in an ideal world you would use something called “heterologous prime boost” which is just a fancy terms for using a different viral vector for any booster to avoid the vector immunity conferred by the first dose. As far as I’m aware, that second viral vector (called modified vaccinia Ankara a former smallpox strain that got modified by replicating in chicken cells for a decade over the 50s and 60s to change it so it lost its pathogenicity) has not been trialled, so instead we may see refinement of the first dose with the Oxford vaccine, or people receiving the Oxford vaccine getting booster by one of the other two. Could that be why the smaller dose first and then a larger dose is more effective? It allows the second dose to actually get in do its thing? I would imagine its something to do with that yeah, the tradeoff of course means your vaccine doesn’t fall apart upon more than 30 minute contact with room temperature. Oxford have done studies with the vector alone in the past though so they won’t be stabbing in the dark when it come to refinement which is encouraging.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 23, 2020 11:20:46 GMT
70% is fine for a first pass, and the added ease of distribution and storage, plus the fact this is a vaccine tech that has been in development for the better part of a decade and already trialled in people over that time (See the Oxford MERS/other diseases trials using the same viral vector) means that it’s technically the most “complete” picture of the 3 so far. The big issue with using a viral vector is you also get immunity to the virus the payload is delivered in, so if you need two doses of it, the second dose it less effective because the immune system hammers it before it can reach your cells. This is why in an ideal world you would use something called “heterologous prime boost” which is just a fancy terms for using a different viral vector for any booster to avoid the vector immunity conferred by the first dose. As far as I’m aware, that second viral vector (called modified vaccinia Ankara a former smallpox strain that got modified by replicating in chicken cells for a decade over the 50s and 60s to change it so it lost its pathogenicity) has not been trialled, so instead we may see refinement of the first dose with the Oxford vaccine, or people receiving the Oxford vaccine getting booster by one of the other two. Could that be why the smaller dose first and then a larger dose is more effective? It allows the second dose to actually get in do its thing? Or is it because the 2nd dose has to be much higher because of the immunity given from the first will prevent the 2nd from working as well as the first?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 23, 2020 12:03:42 GMT
Starkiller has been banging on about his Covid denial theories on almost every page of this thread - he has said on a number of occasions that the virus isn't real, it's part of a global plot orchestrated by the WHO and the WEF to implement the "Great Reset", the world's governments are in on it and all excess deaths in this country over the last can be explained by the issuing of DNR forms in care homes as part of a government backed cull of the old. Not every lockdown sceptic holds these extreme views but when it suits Starkiller has found support from sympathisers with right wing political views and every now and again someone has slipped in a conspiracy theory reference among other perfectly credible information sources. It isn't that vast numbers have bought wholesale into these libertarian alt right conspiracy theories but they are creeping into what is becoming an increasingly polarised debate - clearly without some people even knowing it. Which is scary. It's got to the point where the number of people buying into the whole Qanon/anti-vaxxer/covid denial conspiracy stuff has risen to the point where it is now newsworthy and the mainstream media are picking up on the problem - for example see here as to how it can impact on a personal level. This stuff is also dangerous at a public level as well. According to this article 28% of american's believe conspiracy theory claims about the covid vaccine being used to alter DNA or put microchips into people - that's enough to derail any vaccination program. We are no where near the level of belief in conspiracy theories than the US but it's creeping in and it's tentacles are definitely present in this thread. I'm not saying conspiracy theorists should be banned from this thread - but I am saying people should take a long had look at where these ideas are coming from and ask themselves if they are happy as to where they are heading. For example a despotic leader who has convinced a sufficient number of people to mistrust the mainstream media to achieve significant support to try and overturn a legitimate democratic process. Nah - too far fetched. We have to accept the first step toward conspiracy thinking is losing trust in the default narrative. This is completely rational as the actors in the default narrative, ones that only 40-50 years ago had a lot of trust in the bank, have been lying about absoluteit everything to the point that now we have peer to peer information sharing there is a massive vacuum of trust and a deluge of information/ bullshit. I realise they couldnt see the impacts of the internet clearly, but they lost the trust in an era they thought thet could abuse it. And here we are. A colossal shit show. The idea of the "default narrative" is straight out of the conspiracy theory textbook. There is no "default narrative" at least in a working democracy with a free press and independent academic institutions. That "default narrative" is a consistent squabble of competing ideas - no-one person or institution is constructing an agreed "default narrative". Have you ever come across a news item in The Daily Mail and The Guardian that are presenting the same narrative - let alone The Socialist Worker and The Spectator. Who are the "they" - another alt right conspiracy theory construct. The internet was invented by the US military - if "they" really were in control letting it loose in the real world would make "them" look like complete idiots. The reality is the governance of the world wide web is shaped by the western liberal democratic ideas of a free press - not by the Orwellian "they" wanting to control the minds of their underlings. If anyone is into mind control it's those behind the alt right conspiracy theories. They want people to see the world in terms of competing narratives because if it came down to presenting evidence and being subject to the rigours of scientific and academic analysis their narrative would fall apart. They want to reduce debate to fight based on who has the best story to tell. Conspiracy theories are a secular religion for the internet age. People are good at constructing patterns and a narrative is a pattern in words. Homosapien's first attempt at explaining the world was via religion - which is a complex narrative with an internal logic that provides a comfortable home for brains that like patterns. Scientific and rigorous analysis do not come naturally and it took millenia for that way of thinking to challenge the religious view of the world and the most radical idea science has put out there is that the world isn't subject to any over arching narrative - it evolves through chance, cock up and happy incident and accumulates ways of being in the world that facilitate survival. Like democratic institutions and vaccinations. The most scary thing about conspiracy theories is that they want people to go back to believing in narratives - preferably theirs - nd the best way of doing that is to discredit the institutions that uphold a way of looking at the world that goes beyond believing fairy tales.
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