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Post by lordb on Jul 8, 2020 12:09:03 GMT
And the well respected scientists and research labs at places like Oxford Uni and all over the world in on it? I quoted the word invented. Let's say that it's vastly less deadly than we are being led to believe. And carrying or testing positive for tiny elements of genetic material does not equate to infection. As we carry many such things all of the time in our bodies, even in the back of our throat. And if it was really so deadly, why was the threat officially downgraded before lockdown, and why did international travel continue? If it was really as deadly as we are told, international travel would have been shut down strictly and immediately. It's a simple executive decision. Why did govts do those things? Because politicians the world over place making money above people's lives.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 8, 2020 12:20:21 GMT
So let me get this right... A group of people met in Manhatten regarding a pandemic and having agreed a way forward within days managed to get virtually every world leader from Trump to Putin via Merkel and Sturgeon, the entire scientific community and every main stream media outlet in the world to play along? The organisational skills involved in doing this are pretty impressive but the really clever bit for me is the way such an impeccably planned scam could be made to appear like such a massive cock up. That truly is one cunning plan Baldrick. No that's not what I'm saying. And no-one is compelling to think anything. And a handful (about 15) of billionaires control every piece news media you receive. Much less in reality. So much so that you can see one bloke amongst millions being killed as main headlines in every one. Now try applying the same level of critical thinking to the agenda-ridden crap they pump out. Is it ok if I apply the same level of critical thinking to the nut job media outlets you are quoting? Why should I believe they have exclusive access to the truth - unless of course the editor in chief is played by Keanu Reeves in a leather trenchcoat. And do you seriously think 15 people control what we all see and hear? How does that pass the critical reasoning test?
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Post by starkiller on Jul 8, 2020 12:31:47 GMT
No that's not what I'm saying. And no-one is compelling to think anything. And a handful (about 15) of billionaires control every piece news media you receive. Much less in reality. So much so that you can see one bloke amongst millions being killed as main headlines in every one. Now try applying the same level of critical thinking to the agenda-ridden crap they pump out. Is it ok if I apply the same level of critical thinking to the nut job media outlets you are quoting? Why should I believe they have exclusive access to the truth - unless of course the editor in chief is played by Keanu Reeves in a leather trenchcoat. And do you seriously think 15 people control what we all see and hear? How does that pass the critical reasoning test? No-one is claiming access to any kind of truth. Or trying to pick a fight. Take it or leave it.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jul 8, 2020 15:08:32 GMT
So let me get this right... A group of people met in Manhatten regarding a pandemic and having agreed a way forward within days managed to get virtually every world leader from Trump to Putin via Merkel and Sturgeon, the entire scientific community and every main stream media outlet in the world to play along? The organisational skills involved in doing this are pretty impressive but the really clever bit for me is the way such an impeccably planned scam could be made to appear like such a massive cock up. That truly is one cunning plan Baldrick. No that's not what I'm saying. And no-one is compelling to think anything. And a handful (about 15) of billionaires control every piece news media you receive. Much less in reality. Some have got it down to six. So much so that you can see one bloke amongst millions being killed as main headlines in every one. Now try applying the same level of critical thinking to the agenda-ridden crap they pump out.
And critical thinking would make most realise that even if 15 people DO control everything i see/hear or read, it will still mean having to have 10s of thousands of people being "in on it", as it's those 10s of thousands of people that capture the footage/read the news/write the articles in the first place.....or are we now believing that it's the 15 people in control that actually write all the stories themselves?
Regardless of who controls what, there would need to be huge numbers of people "in on it", as the people who control don't do the actual work.
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Post by Northy on Jul 8, 2020 15:13:47 GMT
126 Deaths reported according to world of meters.
155 yesterday (it was 155 last Tuesday) 126 today (it was 176 last Wednesday)
still a stubborn slow drop
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 8, 2020 15:17:12 GMT
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jul 8, 2020 15:30:01 GMT
So let me get this right... A group of people met in Manhatten regarding a pandemic and having agreed a way forward within days managed to get virtually every world leader from Trump to Putin via Merkel and Sturgeon, the entire scientific community and every main stream media outlet in the world to play along? The organisational skills involved in doing this are pretty impressive but the really clever bit for me is the way such an impeccably planned scam could be made to appear like such a massive cock up. That truly is one cunning plan Baldrick. I don't know why anyone is even bothering to reply to it. It's just beyond ridiculous.
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Post by Davef on Jul 8, 2020 15:50:26 GMT
126 Deaths reported according to world of meters. 155 yesterday (it was 155 last Tuesday) 126 today (it was 176 last Wednesday) still a stubborn slow drop The seven day rolling average is 87 deaths per day, down from 117 last week. It was 231 during the first week of June.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jul 8, 2020 16:01:19 GMT
So let me get this right... A group of people met in Manhatten regarding a pandemic and having agreed a way forward within days managed to get virtually every world leader from Trump to Putin via Merkel and Sturgeon, the entire scientific community and every main stream media outlet in the world to play along? The organisational skills involved in doing this are pretty impressive but the really clever bit for me is the way such an impeccably planned scam could be made to appear like such a massive cock up. That truly is one cunning plan Baldrick. No that's not what I'm saying. And no-one is compelling to think anything. And a handful (about 15) of billionaires control every piece news media you receive. Much less in reality. Some have got it down to six. So much so that you can see one bloke amongst millions being killed as main headlines in every one. Now try applying the same level of critical thinking to the agenda-ridden crap they pump out. Speaking of critical thinking, I had a brief dalliance on Twitter with this conspiracy theory. This particular theory went that Bill Gates was the mastermind behind it as he wanted to enact population control, by means of being able to control who receives the vaccination. There was also a few Epstein links thrown in there as well. I spent a couple of weeks really looking into the articles that were being used to "prove" this particular theory, and also the ones being used to disprove the official narrative. I found that most who believed in the conspiracy theory had a very high level of critical thinking when it came to the dreaded 'mainstream media' but would believe any old shit from 'alternative' sites that tended to instil their idea of the conspiracy theory. I'm all for critical thinking, and some of their arguments against media hype and political shenanigans were probably correct, but then they would be basing their beliefs on any old shit that was put in front them without doing any analysis at all. This isn't particularly aimed at anyone in particular on here, as I haven't been following the conspiracy theory posts on this thread. The mention of "critical thinking" just brought it to my mind.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 8, 2020 16:10:02 GMT
A lot of what you say in your posts is worthy of examination and query. I think the main difference between us is where you see design, I see floundering incompetence. I see a lot of what Adam Curtis calls ‘HyperNormalisation’ in this sort of thinking. People would rather believe in some kind of mass organised conspiracy than come to terms with the fact that our society and government is so fragile and disseminated that it’s unable to operate with any form of effectiveness in this sort of scenario. I agree. I think the really interesting question is why are some people prone to this kind of thinking on a consistent basis, when most people aren't. I can never get beyond the fact that hundreds of thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide would have to be "in on it", all agreeing to keep quiet and potentially breaking their Hippocratic oath, purely for governments to be able to exercise additional control around the world! It's nonsense. Exciting, thought provoking and attractive nonsense, but nonsense all the same.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 8, 2020 16:13:19 GMT
126 Deaths reported according to world of meters. 155 yesterday (it was 155 last Tuesday) 126 today (it was 176 last Wednesday) still a stubborn slow drop The seven day rolling average is 87 deaths per day, down from 117 last week. It was 231 during the first week of June. Finally under 100! 👏 Where are you getting the daily average data from Dave? Do you know the daily average for new cases and/or hospital admissions? Cheers
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 8, 2020 16:17:55 GMT
No that's not what I'm saying. And no-one is compelling to think anything. And a handful (about 15) of billionaires control every piece news media you receive. Much less in reality. Some have got it down to six. So much so that you can see one bloke amongst millions being killed as main headlines in every one. Now try applying the same level of critical thinking to the agenda-ridden crap they pump out. Speaking of critical thinking, I had a brief dalliance on Twitter with this conspiracy theory. This particular theory went that Bill Gates was the mastermind behind it as he wanted to enact population control, by means of being able to control who receives the vaccination. There was also a few Epstein links thrown in there as well. I spent a couple of weeks really looking into the articles that were being used to "prove" this particular theory, and also the ones being used to disprove the official narrative. I found that most who believed in the conspiracy theory had a very high level of critical thinking when it came to the dreaded 'mainstream media' but would believe any old shit from 'alternative' sites that tended to instil their idea of the conspiracy theory. I'm all for critical thinking, and some of their arguments against media hype and political shenanigans were probably correct, but then they would be basing their beliefs on any old shit that was put in front them without doing any analysis at all. This isn't particularly aimed at anyone in particular on here, as I haven't been following the conspiracy theory posts on this thread. The mention of "critical thinking" just brought it to my mind. That is how conspiracy theorists operate full stop. I had the fortune/misfortune to run into one recently. Fully paid up "5G-er", 15 foot tall humans used to exist (look it up, it's a good one), dinosaurs and native Americans coexisted, there are supposedly 26,000 satellites in orbit, the earth is 24,000 miles in circumference so how come photos in space never show them there should be one every mile or so etc etc and on he went..I tried explaining evolution, mentioned that the worlds tallest man was less than nine feet tall and suffered huge health problems as a result...not having it. I checked, there are about 5,000 satellites and obviously not all in the same orbit, but there was no telling him...for these people (the Uncle Joes) the yarn is more attractive than the dull reality, simple as that. There's a very good, if withering, portrayal of the mindset of your average conspiracy theorist on snopes.com debunking the Clinton bodybags nonsense if anyone's interested...
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Post by Davef on Jul 8, 2020 16:26:02 GMT
The seven day rolling average is 87 deaths per day, down from 117 last week. It was 231 during the first week of June. Finally under 100! 👏 Where are you getting the daily average data from Dave? Do you know the daily average for new cases and/or hospital admissions? Cheers coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/deathsHere Paul. Under daily deaths by date reported click on 'data'. Having said that, data is apparently unreliable up to July 3rd so that figure may change. It should still be under 100. If you click on menu and then 'healthcare' you should see hospital admission data.
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Post by thisisouryear on Jul 8, 2020 16:27:38 GMT
So let me get this right... A group of people met in Manhatten regarding a pandemic and having agreed a way forward within days managed to get virtually every world leader from Trump to Putin via Merkel and Sturgeon, the entire scientific community and every main stream media outlet in the world to play along? The organisational skills involved in doing this are pretty impressive but the really clever bit for me is the way such an impeccably planned scam could be made to appear like such a massive cock up. That truly is one cunning plan Baldrick. No that's not what I'm saying. And no-one is compelling to think anything. And a handful (about 15) of billionaires control every piece news media you receive. Much less in reality. Some have got it down to six. So much so that you can see one bloke amongst millions being killed as main headlines in every one. Now try applying the same level of critical thinking to the agenda-ridden crap they pump out. If you control the media you can have a lot of influence for sure but our media is both left and right wing so the media is in competition with each other. Surely if someone was controlling the world through the media they would all dance to the same tune. It takes millions and millions of people for the world to evolve. People are not born geniuses it's random and many come from deprived backgrounds. Most vaccines and new ways of learning about disease happen because of very intelligent people. If a virus is released into the population purposely then it will be because of terrorism. You would need 1000's of very sinister people to pull that off if it was some sort of plan if not insane people. They would likely turn on each other. If I was born intelligent there would be nothing stopping me from building up a huge fortune and buying out any of the top media companies, obviously I wasn't. There would be nothing to stop you either.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 8, 2020 16:29:14 GMT
Is it ok if I apply the same level of critical thinking to the nut job media outlets you are quoting? Why should I believe they have exclusive access to the truth - unless of course the editor in chief is played by Keanu Reeves in a leather trenchcoat. And do you seriously think 15 people control what we all see and hear? How does that pass the critical reasoning test? No-one is claiming access to any kind of truth. Or trying to pick a fight. Take it or leave it. Apologies - I'm not trying to pick a fight, just trying to understand where you are coming from on this because to be honest it sounds bonkers. I can't see how you can say take it or leave it when your main claim appears to be the whole world is subject to a massive conspiracy organised by some mega elite and that this view is supported by a small clique of reporters who have seen the truth and are asking that others use their critical faculties to tune into what is really going on. If true - as you appear to claim - that's pretty important news and high time I made myself a tin foil hat. All I'm saying is why can't you and I use our critical faculties to question the accuracy of these reports of a conspiracy theory - either the whole world is subject to a massive conspiracy or a small number of nutters are disseminating made up bullshit. Which of the two is the easiest to pull off and therefore the most likely? I'm going for bullshitting nut jobs. But as you say it's a personal choice and more than happy to amicably disagree.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 8, 2020 16:38:59 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 8, 2020 16:40:37 GMT
Finally under 100! 👏 Where are you getting the daily average data from Dave? Do you know the daily average for new cases and/or hospital admissions? Cheers coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/deathsHere Paul. Under daily deaths by date reported click on 'data'. Having said that, data is apparently unreliable up to July 3rd so that figure may change. It should still be under 100. If you click on menu and then 'healthcare' you should see hospital admission data. Thanks Dave but I think I'm being a bit thick, as I still can't see the daily averages ... 🤔
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 8, 2020 16:49:36 GMT
Speaking of critical thinking, I had a brief dalliance on Twitter with this conspiracy theory. This particular theory went that Bill Gates was the mastermind behind it as he wanted to enact population control, by means of being able to control who receives the vaccination. There was also a few Epstein links thrown in there as well. I spent a couple of weeks really looking into the articles that were being used to "prove" this particular theory, and also the ones being used to disprove the official narrative. I found that most who believed in the conspiracy theory had a very high level of critical thinking when it came to the dreaded 'mainstream media' but would believe any old shit from 'alternative' sites that tended to instil their idea of the conspiracy theory. I'm all for critical thinking, and some of their arguments against media hype and political shenanigans were probably correct, but then they would be basing their beliefs on any old shit that was put in front them without doing any analysis at all. This isn't particularly aimed at anyone in particular on here, as I haven't been following the conspiracy theory posts on this thread. The mention of "critical thinking" just brought it to my mind. That is how conspiracy theorists operate full stop. I had the fortune/misfortune to run into one recently. Fully paid up "5G-er", 15 foot tall humans used to exist (look it up, it's a good one), dinosaurs and native Americans coexisted, there are supposedly 26,000 satellites in orbit, the earth is 24,000 miles in circumference so how come photos in space never show them there should be one every mile or so etc etc and on he went..I tried explaining evolution, mentioned that the worlds tallest man was less than nine feet tall and suffered huge health problems as a result...not having it. I checked, there are about 5,000 satellites and obviously not all in the same orbit, but there was no telling him...for these people (the Uncle Joes) the yarn is more attractive than the dull reality, simple as that. There's a very good, if withering, portrayal of the mindset of your average conspiracy theorist on snopes.com debunking the Clinton bodybags nonsense if anyone's interested... I used to work with a guy who billed himself on Facebook as "seeker of truth and justice". He was actually quite a nice bloke - but far from 'seeking truth' he just believed any old bollocks that was more interesting than the truth. Everytime a mainstream story had an alternative it was always the alternative he went for (bodies from Grenfell hidden in a Tesco deep freeze to hide the true numbers, Leicester City's Premier League win fixed by a Far Eastern betting syndicate etc etc) - and like our friend on here believed the world was being taken over by SPECTRE like dystopian 'deep state' set on controlling all our lives (what an irony that he spent so much time on Facebook!). Poor chap died earlier this year but he would have loved Coronavirus - he'd have been torn between catching it himself at least three times on the grounds that he'd been targetted and having it down as a plot by Russian oligarchs to destablise western democracy while at the same time implicating China as the aggressor.
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Post by Davef on Jul 8, 2020 16:57:27 GMT
coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/deathsHere Paul. Under daily deaths by date reported click on 'data'. Having said that, data is apparently unreliable up to July 3rd so that figure may change. It should still be under 100. If you click on menu and then 'healthcare' you should see hospital admission data. Thanks Dave but I think I'm being a bit thick, as I still can't see the daily averages ... 🤔 I worked that out myself. I'm sad like that. 😊
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Post by starkiller on Jul 8, 2020 16:59:36 GMT
No-one is claiming access to any kind of truth. Or trying to pick a fight. Take it or leave it. Apologies - I'm not trying to pick a fight, just trying to understand where you are coming from on this because to be honest it sounds bonkers. I can't see how you can say take it or leave it when your main claim appears to be the whole world is subject to a massive conspiracy organised by some mega elite and that this view is supported by a small clique of reporters who have seen the truth and are asking that others use their critical faculties to tune into what is really going on. If true - as you appear to claim - that's pretty important news and high time I made myself a tin foil hat. All I'm saying is why can't you and I use our critical faculties to question the accuracy of these reports of a conspiracy theory - either the whole world is subject to a massive conspiracy or a small number of nutters are disseminating made up bullshit. Which of the two is the easiest to pull off and therefore the most likely? I'm going for bullshitting nut jobs. But as you say it's a personal choice and more than happy to amicably disagree. In effect, all I've said is that the threat of this virus has been overstated, the test is uncertain as to revealing actual infection, the care home system seems to have inflated the figures for deaths that last year wouldn't have been classed as c19, especially when many deaths are been diagnosed on vague symptoms alone. And, also, by their very nature, care homes contain those that are towards the end of their lives. In light of this, I don't think lockdowns are warranted or justified when world deaths are less than a bad flu year, considering the catastrophic long-term effect on lives and livelihoods, health and poverty. Also , I don't wish to sacrifice the very basic of liberties on the altar of Covid19, with many rules and inconsistencies suggesting more of an aspect of control rather than health. It's others that have demanded a 'grand theory of everything' conspiracy. I understand the desire for this but ultimately it doesn't change some of the things I've just listed.
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Jul 8, 2020 17:16:36 GMT
Yeah its open but there is no atmosphere in there.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 8, 2020 17:36:11 GMT
Apologies - I'm not trying to pick a fight, just trying to understand where you are coming from on this because to be honest it sounds bonkers. I can't see how you can say take it or leave it when your main claim appears to be the whole world is subject to a massive conspiracy organised by some mega elite and that this view is supported by a small clique of reporters who have seen the truth and are asking that others use their critical faculties to tune into what is really going on. If true - as you appear to claim - that's pretty important news and high time I made myself a tin foil hat. All I'm saying is why can't you and I use our critical faculties to question the accuracy of these reports of a conspiracy theory - either the whole world is subject to a massive conspiracy or a small number of nutters are disseminating made up bullshit. Which of the two is the easiest to pull off and therefore the most likely? I'm going for bullshitting nut jobs. But as you say it's a personal choice and more than happy to amicably disagree. In effect, all I've said is that the threat of this virus has been overstated, the test is uncertain as to revealing actual infection, the care home system seems to have inflated the figures for deaths that last year wouldn't have been classed as c19, especially when many deaths are been diagnosed on vague symptoms alone. And, also, by their very nature, care homes contain those that are towards the end of their lives. In light of this, I don't think lockdowns are warranted or justified when world deaths are less than a bad flu year, considering the catastrophic long-term effect on lives and livelihoods, health and poverty. Also , I don't wish to sacrifice the very basic of liberties on the altar of Covid19, with many rules and inconsistencies suggesting more of an aspect of control rather than health. It's others that have demanded a 'grand theory of everything' conspiracy. I understand the desire for this but ultimately it doesn't change some of the things I've just listed. I think if that was as far as it ever went, folk wouldn't take so much issue with what you say and have you down as a conspiracy theorist (although to be fair, I can't say I blame anyone for doing so, since almost every thread that has a contribution from your good self will be one hinting (at the very least!) about shadowy behind the scenes forces at work). However when you post stuff like this on a regular basis, it's difficult not to come to that conclusion: Pig flu is more bullshit to add to the current covid1984 bullshit. Although the ace up the Globalists sleeve is food shortages, so you never know. Just wait for that one. More stuff to question. The numbers seem arbitrary. And, if arbitrary they are meaningless. And if meaningless, we are being played. I believe most of it, at least, is bullshit. Just an opinion. My main concern has never been the virus, but the game behind it. If that doesn't indicate conspiracy theorist, I'm not sure what does...
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 8, 2020 20:29:44 GMT
scandalous...
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Post by Gods on Jul 8, 2020 22:25:05 GMT
It was widely reported the failed track and trace system cost £11.8 million. How do they get to £10 billion? A billion is 1000 (one thousand) x (times) a million. I accept it was all a huge waste of money and I am no fan of this tawdry government but £10 billion, really?
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Post by musik on Jul 8, 2020 23:02:18 GMT
Unfortunately, Sweden has let tourists of any kind come in to our country again, without any restrictions - and therefore the number of Corona cases and deaths are rising again. They are "climbing" all over you, breathing, outdoors. Packed trams and buses. Chaos!
Media's talk about a second wave of Corona is a really misdirected and bad choice! It means people here think the first wave is completely over. Almost noone(!) here care about Corona anymore.
Communication knowledge from the State - my ass!!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 9, 2020 0:16:54 GMT
/photo/1
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 9, 2020 3:03:11 GMT
Can anyone explain the diminishing correlation between cases and deaths in the USA... At the start of this epidemic deaths seemed to lag infections by 2 or 3 weeks, but in the past month 5/6 weeks they've diverted - cases rising rapidly, deaths steadily falling. The early pandemic was defined by only large testing of symptomatic patients, largely in hospital scenarios and among those with a much higher risk of dying. The numbers need disaggregating really for a lot of reasons. But graphs like that are effectively mixing two phases of the pandemic for that reason. As it’s progressed, and testing has become more common across wider demographics including younger people going back into work as the US has opened up Tests have also increased in volume we will “see” more cases, that may not correspond to the a proportional increase in deaths as reflected earlier in the pandemic when those being tested were already on oxygen therapy or ventilators. The median age of positive tests in Florida for instance in April was 65, this month it’s been less than half that. So I would suggest who is testing positive is arguably the main driver behind this phenomenon at present. I’ve not seen any serious claims that the virus has changed to drive this, i.e it hasn’t yet been subject to a loss of lethality mutation a la SARS1. There are more infectious strains going round according to the sequencing, but these have not been concomitant with more severe disease once infected. Age and comorbidities are still the major risk factors. The risk is the wider spread then diffuses to more elderly populations and you get your increases in hospitalisations and deaths, the former of those is now steadily going up too. I guess we’ll see what effect the validation of Dexamethasone has on those needing it most.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 9, 2020 5:36:02 GMT
It was widely reported the failed track and trace system cost £11.8 million. How do they get to £10 billion? A billion is 1000 (one thousand) x (times) a million. I accept it was all a huge waste of money and I am no fan of this tawdry government but £10 billion, really? For a independent group they seem very anti government
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Post by werrington on Jul 9, 2020 6:22:01 GMT
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Post by Gods on Jul 9, 2020 6:34:43 GMT
So crudely if you accept ONS stats that 20% of folks have had Covid in London and 8% in the rest of the UK then in the Profs world London is a done deal and just 12% of us left who may catch it in the rest of the UK. Not sure I'm buying this. I suspect his wider point that the populations of some countries may be more vulnerable than others for complex reasons, UK v Germany for example is valid though. But for his 80% number the good prof has got an extra zero stuck in his famous computer! Someone should tell him really.
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