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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 7, 2020 9:38:22 GMT
As someone who posts on here who's wife manages a care home has pointed out care homes could of refused to accept anybody without a negative test The gentleman in your clip I wonder if he offers full sick pay to staff And I wonder if he uses agency staff As a independent report pointed out Carehomes that paid staff sick pay had considerable less covid cases And those that used a lot of agency staff had a considerable higher rate of covid You really struggle with the truth don't you?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 7, 2020 9:47:20 GMT
As someone who posts on here who's wife manages a care home has pointed out care homes could of refused to accept anybody without a negative test The gentleman in your clip I wonder if he offers full sick pay to staff And I wonder if he uses agency staff As a independent report pointed out Carehomes that paid staff sick pay had considerable less covid cases And those that used a lot of agency staff had a considerable higher rate of covid You really struggle with the truth don't you? What have I posted that's not true?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 7, 2020 9:51:13 GMT
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jnb14
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Post by jnb14 on Jul 7, 2020 9:51:21 GMT
Pretty much one bloke got us and the USA into a lockdown (who himself thought it was not worth adhering to). And also after the threat of this virus had been officially downgraded. How many people does it take? There is a global health mafia, of that I'm certain. Doesn't take much to infiltrate the highest levels of healthcare in each country. And the Gates-funded WHO - corrupt as fuck! 'Following the science' means government decisions run by technocrats Even if that's true about the one bloke, it's hardly evidence of a grand design or conspiracy is it? Its evidence of chaos and ineptitude. I agree that the funding of any organisation is an issue. We should have 100% transparency on all funding of parties, institutions, organisations and research. Every aspect of human life has individuals and interests involved who put profit above public interest or integrity of purpose. It's omnipresent. But then its a painful stretch to believe that these interests will try to make a profit at the expense of almost everything and everybody else. Including no doubt many of the interests that are owned by the same people. The quest for conflicts of interest is a noble one, but I still no evidence of grand design. Do Bill Gates or the WTO really have the front to manifest a situation that results in people like the Saudis having to pay people to buy oil? They are all nicely wealthy and on the gravy train already, why piss off known murderers? This move could only be justified by an immeasurable power gain. Maybe even nullifying the threat of whatever interests would be the most threatening. But it's actually been chaos, unprecedented and unpredictable chaos. It's like doping everyone in the race including yourself. You are no more likely to win and very likely to get caught.I see no motive or clear beneficiary in need to take the risk for whatever gain is on offer. And "Following the science" is just a get out clause. I dont see this as anything more contrived than an illustration of exactly how poorly organised and prepared humans are for infrequent but inevitable events. Just wait til Yellowstone blows. No doubt, if there is still an oatcake, we will have posters claiming it was triggered by US military interests, or Putin, or the lizard people. But, one day, it's just going to blow. On it's own. And we haven't got a clue what it will look like or what we'll do about it. We do know what it looks like as it's happened before. Most of the eastern seaboard of the North America will be under 10 feet of ash. They'll be a winter lasting years around the globe, crops will fail, billions will die. But at least we'll get a refund on our season cards!
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 7, 2020 9:53:54 GMT
As I've said before I would Nationalise care home provision so as to guarantee true cradle to grave health provision Good on you. Is there a single Tory politician that believes in this. I doubt it I'm not sure any labour Mp would come out in support either Politicians of both main parties have kicked the social care problem into the long grass for years
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teflondel
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Plumbing services
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Post by teflondel on Jul 7, 2020 9:56:16 GMT
The key word from Boris’s statement is “some” Do you think that Bradwell did everything they could have?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 7, 2020 9:56:58 GMT
You really struggle with the truth don't you? What have I posted that's not true? Tick tock Time really passes slowly Waiting for you to answer a straight question
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jnb14
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Post by jnb14 on Jul 7, 2020 10:00:24 GMT
As I've said there is disagreement over whether the test actually establishes whether someone is infected or not. In fact, some have gone as far as to say there is no new infection but a new way of testing, where people with no illness or infection are diagnosed as infected. When I use 'supposed' I also refer to death certificates stating 'covid19' for people that have not died from it. Even in the news-speak we get the phrase 'died, having tested positive for...'. This is verbal sleight of hand, amongst many sleights of hands. Although they are now not even concerned with accuracy in reporting this. I ask once again, why does a deadly pandemic that needs a lockdown require this upward manipulation ?? Isn't that just a little suspect? I think people tend to dismiss this to keep absolute faith in an overall narrative and news media. Their choice. But not one I will subscribe to. It's easier to fool people than convince people they have been fooled... Well you've obviously given this a lot of thought and researched it. So maybe I am naive - but I need a bit more than the suggestion of a few hastily categorised death certificates to get me onside to believe that every news media outlet worldwide is both falsely reporting and suppressing information in order to cover up a conspiracy to portray an inconsequential or even non existent virus as a global health threat likely to kill millions if left unchecked. But - I'm open to pursuasion - so - in order that I am fooled no longer please enlighten me as to why this 'upward manipulation' is indeed necessary - and as I've asked you before, who is behind it, how are they co-ercing multiple health organisions worldwide into complying, and what is their endgane? People who say there are conspiracies need to justify the gigantic effort that must take place for decades every single day across the entire planet. It makes for great movies and tv. For example, the Moon landings. Instead of the very well recorded effort, money and time that went in to getting men on the Moon it would have taken massively more effort, money and time for have faked them AND to have continued that fakery up till this very moment. As far as Covid is concerned, why go to the trouble of "inventing" a new virus when there are plenty of existing diseases that could do an even better job. Kids in my Y7 classes don't believe me when I say the bubonic plague still exists- they've just reported a case in China- though of course that would fit nicely into a conspiracy theory!
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jnb14
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Post by jnb14 on Jul 7, 2020 10:06:50 GMT
If I remember rightly weren't the care homes struggling to get PPE? Is it not true that old folk were shipped out of hospital into care homes un-tested? Some care home owners may have been money grabbing, but isn't it true that many just couldn't cope? You have always argued your case well Wagga, but this post.......... really? But why couldn't they cope Because for years they have put profit before care Showing total disregard for there staff or customers (or service users as one of my daughter in laws has been told to call them) Waga, Carehomes used to be "nationalised" they were sold off ( I don't remember which political party was in power) they are now often owned abroad and as you say are there to get every last penny out of the elderly. This much I think we agree on. But it was very clear ( and isn't it strange how quickly these things are forgotten) that patients were shifted out of the NHS and in to care homes without any thought given to the consquences. There is a poster on here whose wife is a care home manager- his posts were very enlightening.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 7, 2020 10:12:47 GMT
Well you've obviously given this a lot of thought and researched it. So maybe I am naive - but I need a bit more than the suggestion of a few hastily categorised death certificates to get me onside to believe that every news media outlet worldwide is both falsely reporting and suppressing information in order to cover up a conspiracy to portray an inconsequential or even non existent virus as a global health threat likely to kill millions if left unchecked. But - I'm open to pursuasion - so - in order that I am fooled no longer please enlighten me as to why this 'upward manipulation' is indeed necessary - and as I've asked you before, who is behind it, how are they co-ercing multiple health organisions worldwide into complying, and what is their endgane? People who say there are conspiracies need to justify the gigantic effort that must take place for decades every single day across the entire planet. It makes for great movies and tv. For example, the Moon landings. Instead of the very well recorded effort, money and time that went in to getting men on the Moon it would have taken massively more effort, money and time for have faked them AND to have continued that fakery up till this very moment. As far as Covid is concerned, why go to the trouble of "inventing" a new virus when there are plenty of existing diseases that could do an even better job. Kids in my Y7 classes don't believe me when I say the bubonic plague still exists- they've just reported a case in China- though of course that would fit nicely into a conspiracy theory! The moon landings were real? C'mon - next you'll be telling me Elvis is dead when we all know he just won the Epsom Derby on the Lord Lucan trained Shergar. But you won't get the BBC reporting THAT will you?
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Post by Davef on Jul 7, 2020 10:14:11 GMT
Alok Sharma excusing Johnson's comments on BBC News because they didn't know the extent of asymptomatic cases early on. This is bullshit. There were reports from Wuhan about asymptomatic carriers of the virus in early February.
They just can't stop lying.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 7, 2020 10:17:40 GMT
But why couldn't they cope Because for years they have put profit before care Showing total disregard for there staff or customers (or service users as one of my daughter in laws has been told to call them) Waga, Carehomes used to be "nationalised" they were sold off ( I don't remember which political party was in power) they are now often owned abroad and as you say are there to get every last penny out of the elderly. This much I think we agree on. But it was very clear ( and isn't it strange how quickly these things are forgotten) that patients were shifted out of the NHS and in to care homes without any thought given to the consquences. There is a poster on here whose wife is a care home manager- his posts were very enlightening. Yes they were enlightening if I remember correctly his wife hadn't had a case as she had refused to accept anyone without a negative test So why didn't a lot of other care homes do the same And before people say they can't refuse oh yes they can Before covid there were thousands of beds in hospitals across the country occupied (bed blocking) by poor souls who's dementia or care needs have reached a point were there Carehomes Allegedly can't manage them and refuse to take them back
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Post by Davef on Jul 7, 2020 10:36:46 GMT
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Post by essexstokey on Jul 7, 2020 10:46:12 GMT
And yet we kept Covid patients in regular hospitals while cancer patients were denied treatment that will ultimately kill thousands. Did we have the staff to do everything though ? many retired people were brought in to work again in the NHS, furloughed cabin crew were in doing other jobs, there are people paid much more than the PM to run the NHS and organise it's staff as sees suitable at the time, yet you sit there and bash the government in hindsight, we'd all seen the videos of what was happening in Italy, to avoid that was the focused priority at the time. we had 10 years of tory cuts, privatisation and a government eliminating bursaries for nurses and changing it to loans we also had the same government cutting other emergency services to the bone like ambulances etc, lets also not forget that this same political party brought in not only hospital managers on these inflated salaries but a level of bureaucracy that was not needed they managed single headedly to dismantle a working system into one that has hyphened off money to things like marketing and their mates in the private sector. there underinvestment has lead to a shortage of staff at the coal face one because we do not train enough and 2 they do not recruit enough for the nhs rather recruiting from private agencies at an inflated price. the ones that they did recruit were not protected enough with a lack of ppe because this government ignored a report on what to stockpile! they then issued contracts to there mates at inflated prices for substandard ppe. and tried to cover this all up. this government has failed the NHS time and time again and this go's for the tory party in general the party that opposed its creation in the first place and has done everything in its power over the years to privatise and dismantle it. this current government is inept and corrupt they have sold your health down the river for profit of there mates. this government have not only handled this epidemic ineptly but have done the same to the nhs for years they are totally and utterly to blame or the worst deaths and dater of any g7 country !! I just hope people remember this in the future
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Post by ColonelMustard on Jul 7, 2020 10:46:54 GMT
Good on you. Is there a single Tory politician that believes in this. I doubt it I'm not sure any labour Mp would come out in support either Politicians of both main parties have kicked the social care problem into the long grass for years The last Labour shadow cabinet were committed to the formation of a National Care Service, although that's likely changed now. I haven't checked.
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Post by essexstokey on Jul 7, 2020 10:58:00 GMT
Yeah, fancy me sitting here bashing the Government for building hospitals that can't be staffed properly due to their neglect of the NHS over for years. I mean, what a nerve eh? I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but it's actually the Government's job to plan ahead and be able to care for their citizens in case of emergencies and crises. They've failed children, the elderly, the vulnerable and the sick. Unforgivably. The government did a pretty reasonable job protecting the elderly and vulnerable Its a pity that money grabbing car home providers didn't do likewise bs the government discharged patients to care homes without testing them for the virus they infected the homes by neglect and caused thousands of deaths because our testing procedures were incompetent, hey also issued no guidance to care homes right upto the lockdown, in addition they did not provide ppe to the care home sector who had to fend for themselves at inflated prices leaving many having to use black binbags for ppe. this neglect is a total scandal that can only be placed at johnsons and hancocks door
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 7, 2020 10:59:53 GMT
Yeah, fancy me sitting here bashing the Government for building hospitals that can't be staffed properly due to their neglect of the NHS over for years. I mean, what a nerve eh? I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but it's actually the Government's job to plan ahead and be able to care for their citizens in case of emergencies and crises. They've failed children, the elderly, the vulnerable and the sick. Unforgivably. I'm aware of what the government is and how little of them there actually are, it's not the government, it's the civil service that are under the government that do the detailed planning, many of them have been there for 30 or 40 years through successive ministers, governments and have been given a knighthood and seem to have been caught with their pants down on this one, think they'd been sat too comfortably and got caught out. Deflection at its absolute finest. Classic Tory, it's always somebody else's fault! If that's in any way accurate, let's just get rid of the government as they are clearly incapable of setting direction for the civil service to follow (which is government's job) or clearly incapable of over-seeing the enactment of their direction by civil service, either way unfit for purpose... You'd think if you'd war-gamed a response three years ago, you'd have a better response than we did, although the herd immunity approach does go some way to explaining why our deaths are the worst in Europe. From wikipedia: Exercise Cygnus was a simulation exercise carried out by NHS England in October 2016 to estimate the impact of a hypothetical H2N2 influenza pandemic on the United Kingdom. The exercise showed that the pandemic would cause the country's health system to collapse from a lack of resources, with Sally Davies, the Chief Medical Officer at the time, stating that a lack of medical ventilators and the logistics of disposal of dead bodies were serious problems. As of April 2020, the full results of the exercise remained classified. The Daily Telegraph reported one government source as saying that the results of the simulation were "too terrifying" to be revealed. According to the Telegraph, the exercise led to assumptions that a "herd immunity" approach would be the best response to a similar epidemic. A number of news reports criticised the government's handling of the COVID-19 pandemic in the light of the conclusions reached by Exercise Cygnus. In late April 2020, The Observer reported that the government had been threatened with legal action over demands to publish the results of the study. The report, classified as "Official - Sensitive", was leaked and published in full in The Observer's sister paper The Guardian (except for redaction of some contact details) on 7 May 2020.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 7, 2020 11:12:11 GMT
Well you've obviously given this a lot of thought and researched it. So maybe I am naive - but I need a bit more than the suggestion of a few hastily categorised death certificates to get me onside to believe that every news media outlet worldwide is both falsely reporting and suppressing information in order to cover up a conspiracy to portray an inconsequential or even non existent virus as a global health threat likely to kill millions if left unchecked. But - I'm open to pursuasion - so - in order that I am fooled no longer please enlighten me as to why this 'upward manipulation' is indeed necessary - and as I've asked you before, who is behind it, how are they co-ercing multiple health organisions worldwide into complying, and what is their endgane? People who say there are conspiracies need to justify the gigantic effort that must take place for decades every single day across the entire planet. It makes for great movies and tv. For example, the Moon landings. Instead of the very well recorded effort, money and time that went in to getting men on the Moon it would have taken massively more effort, money and time for have faked them AND to have continued that fakery up till this very moment. As far as Covid is concerned, why go to the trouble of "inventing" a new virus when there are plenty of existing diseases that could do an even better job. Kids in my Y7 classes don't believe me when I say the bubonic plague still exists- they've just reported a case in China- though of course that would fit nicely into a conspiracy theory! Spot on. I think the fundamental issue with conspiracy theorists is that they are just more prone to accepting the 'interesting' story than the 'mundane' story. To an extent, you can't really blame them, as humans we all love a good yarn - that's why we watch films and read books. Unfortunately, whereas most of us will accept that if 95% of the available data or evidence points towards a certain conclusion then that's the likely boring mundane truth, some of us (the conspiracy theorists) will pounce on the 5% of data or evidence which doesn't point towards the same conclusion and use this as evidence that something sinister is occurring. I think it's just how their brains work. They prefer the 'excitement' of the possibility of a conspiracy over the boring reality. And to be 'different' to the 'sheeple' (who are obviously so naive that they blindly swallow the 'authorised' line) is also attractive and probably provides a feeling of intellectual superiority.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 7, 2020 11:13:24 GMT
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jnb14
Youth Player
Posts: 270
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Post by jnb14 on Jul 7, 2020 11:18:32 GMT
People who say there are conspiracies need to justify the gigantic effort that must take place for decades every single day across the entire planet. It makes for great movies and tv. For example, the Moon landings. Instead of the very well recorded effort, money and time that went in to getting men on the Moon it would have taken massively more effort, money and time for have faked them AND to have continued that fakery up till this very moment. As far as Covid is concerned, why go to the trouble of "inventing" a new virus when there are plenty of existing diseases that could do an even better job. Kids in my Y7 classes don't believe me when I say the bubonic plague still exists- they've just reported a case in China- though of course that would fit nicely into a conspiracy theory! The moon landings were real? C'mon - next you'll be telling me Elvis is dead when we all know he just won the Epsom Derby on the Lord Lucan trained Shergar. But you won't get the BBC reporting THAT will you? That would be inaccurate, so the BBC wouldn't report it. It was Lee Harvey Oswald who trained Shergar.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 7, 2020 11:19:30 GMT
Good on you. Is there a single Tory politician that believes in this. I doubt it I'm not sure any labour Mp would come out in support either Politicians of both main parties have kicked the social care problem into the long grass for years Not the case...
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jnb14
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Post by jnb14 on Jul 7, 2020 11:25:53 GMT
Waga, Carehomes used to be "nationalised" they were sold off ( I don't remember which political party was in power) they are now often owned abroad and as you say are there to get every last penny out of the elderly. This much I think we agree on. But it was very clear ( and isn't it strange how quickly these things are forgotten) that patients were shifted out of the NHS and in to care homes without any thought given to the consquences. There is a poster on here whose wife is a care home manager- his posts were very enlightening. Yes they were enlightening if I remember correctly his wife hadn't had a case as she had refused to accept anyone without a negative test So why didn't a lot of other care homes do the same And before people say they can't refuse oh yes they can Before covid there were thousands of beds in hospitals across the country occupied (bed blocking) by poor souls who's dementia or care needs have reached a point were there Carehomes Allegedly can't manage them and refuse to take them back Yes, they could have refused and ALL should have done. However, despite that fact that someone must have been paying for those people to be transferred to care homes ( I might be wrong on that- does anyone know?) imagine the shower of shit that would have descended on the care homes if they had refused en masse at the height of the crisis. I suggest that a lot of moral force was used on care homes to accept people in. I also fully accept that the system is now set up to make money rather than "care" and it needs reform. Apparently Alexander Johnson has an "oven ready" plan. It'll come out at around the same time as the report into Russian interference in elections.
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Post by werrington on Jul 7, 2020 12:01:01 GMT
Media are fucking amazing aren’t they, must of been over 10k pubs opened last Saturday but the THREE that have been shut are dominating the story....scaremongering wankers
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Post by Davef on Jul 7, 2020 12:04:34 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 7, 2020 12:16:29 GMT
What have I posted that's not true? Tick tock Time really passes slowly Waiting for you to answer a straight question Tick tock? 25,000 elderly people were booted out of Hospitals and sent to care homes, 20,000 DIED of covid19. In any normal society the perpetrators would be in jail by now. And you pop up with "tick tock"? WTF is wrong with you?
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Post by starkiller on Jul 7, 2020 12:22:43 GMT
People who say there are conspiracies need to justify the gigantic effort that must take place for decades every single day across the entire planet. It makes for great movies and tv. For example, the Moon landings. Instead of the very well recorded effort, money and time that went in to getting men on the Moon it would have taken massively more effort, money and time for have faked them AND to have continued that fakery up till this very moment. As far as Covid is concerned, why go to the trouble of "inventing" a new virus when there are plenty of existing diseases that could do an even better job. Kids in my Y7 classes don't believe me when I say the bubonic plague still exists- they've just reported a case in China- though of course that would fit nicely into a conspiracy theory! Spot on. I think the fundamental issue with conspiracy theorists is that they are just more prone to accepting the 'interesting' story than the 'mundane' story. To an extent, you can't really blame them, as humans we all love a good yarn - that's why we watch films and read books. Unfortunately, whereas most of us will accept that if 95% of the available data or evidence points towards a certain conclusion then that's the likely boring mundane truth, some of us (the conspiracy theorists) will pounce on the 5% of data or evidence which doesn't point towards the same conclusion and use this as evidence that something sinister is occurring. I think it's just how their brains work. They prefer the 'excitement' of the possibility of a conspiracy over the boring reality. And to be 'different' to the 'sheeple' (who are obviously so naive that they blindly swallow the 'authorised' line) is also attractive and probably provides a feeling of intellectual superiority. Here we go with the attempt at psychoanalysis, using the BBC model seen on hitpieces for those questioning any information received. This is actually presenting an attitude of intellectual superiority. Something I've never tried to do. I don't attempt psychoanalysis on those that wish to view authority as some kind of benevolent parent and continue their blind belief, despite a list of evidence to the contrary. Maybe they have 'daddy issues'. See how easy it is to throw in some 'psychoanalysis'. Also, it's amazing how such folk casually overlook and dismiss information that would undermine faith in such authority and keep their belief in the narrative told. How much does it take to start some actual questioning. I'm still waiting for someone to justify this ludicrous lockdown, which will lead to more deaths and poverty, and justify their acceptance future lockdowns? All from virus (even if you believe all the dodgy stats, inflated through the care home system, as I previously stated) that is less deadly than seasonal flu? Let's not forget this lockdown was based on hugely erroneous models of 500,000 deaths from a guy with a disastrous record during foot and mouth. A guy who doesn't even think it worth following his own lockdown. You talk about 5% of evidence. But this is pretty crucial I would say. It has ground the country to a halt for four months. And yet people are still willing to accept more of this shit with random town and pub lockdowns. So whilst you're congratulating yourself on the internet and circle-jerking for avoiding the label of 'conspiracy theorist', maybe you can explain the levels of cognitive dissonance required to accept more and more of this shit and the destruction of lives and livelihoods? Forget targetting the caricature of 'conspiracy theorist' and justify this lockdown!
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 7, 2020 12:30:05 GMT
On the subject of care homes, there are good and bad.
I have a cousin who owned and ran a care home. He sold up to one of the chains because he could not make a reasonable profit. One of the reasons was government regulations and demands were so onerous. I suspect he could not comply and be profitable so he got out when the offer was made to buy the business.
My mother used to go into an retired teachers care home for respite when my sister , who she lived with normally, went on holiday. The care home had to shut because it was prohibitively expensive to convert the old property to comply with government regulations like every room en suite, wheel chair access, emergency facilities, staffing levels, etc.
I am not an expert but I suspect like small shops, it is impossible for small private care homes to both comply with legislation properly, compete with large organization, and make a satisfactory return on investment. Draw your own conclusions. Large chains can make a profit with modern purpose built buildings and facilities which together with spread overheads like insurance reduce their operating costs.
I do expect a responsible government to meet the urgent and emergency demands of the NHS, like paying for the Nightingale hospitals and providing funding. I don't expect the government and Whithall civil service to engage in the day to day running of the NHS. That is why Blair set up the health trusts, for them to be autonomous in their day to day management.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 7, 2020 12:33:44 GMT
How is it? You'll see the stats for other countries in the thread. People would do it and if they see more people wearing them they will join in. You won't get everyone but it could be done to a decent level. It's clearly a good thing and people really need to get on board with it and get it into their skulls that they are doing a civic duty.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 7, 2020 12:47:26 GMT
Spot on. I think the fundamental issue with conspiracy theorists is that they are just more prone to accepting the 'interesting' story than the 'mundane' story. To an extent, you can't really blame them, as humans we all love a good yarn - that's why we watch films and read books. Unfortunately, whereas most of us will accept that if 95% of the available data or evidence points towards a certain conclusion then that's the likely boring mundane truth, some of us (the conspiracy theorists) will pounce on the 5% of data or evidence which doesn't point towards the same conclusion and use this as evidence that something sinister is occurring. I think it's just how their brains work. They prefer the 'excitement' of the possibility of a conspiracy over the boring reality. And to be 'different' to the 'sheeple' (who are obviously so naive that they blindly swallow the 'authorised' line) is also attractive and probably provides a feeling of intellectual superiority. Here we go with the attempt at psychoanalysis, using the BBC model seen on hitpieces for those questioning any information received. This is actually presenting an attitude of intellectual superiority. Something I've never tried to do. I don't attempt psychoanalysis on those that wish to view authority as some kind of benevolent parent and continue their blind belief, despite a list of evidence to the contrary. Maybe they have 'daddy issues'. See how easy it is to throw in some 'psychoanalysis'. Also, it's amazing how such folk casually overlook and dismiss information that would undermine faith in such authority and keep their belief in the narrative told. How much does it take to start some actual questioning. I'm still waiting for someone to justify this ludicrous lockdown, which will lead to more deaths and poverty, and justify their acceptance future lockdowns? All from virus (even if you believe all the dodgy stats) that is less deadly than seasonal flu? Let's not forget this lockdown was based on hugely erroneous models of 500,000 deaths from a guy with a disastrous record during foot and mouth. A guy who doesn't even think it worth following his own lockdown. And yet people are still willing to accept more of this shit with random town and pub lockdowns. So whilst you're congratulating yourself on the internet and circle-jerking for avoiding the label of 'conspiracy theorist', maybe you can explain the levels of cognitive dissonance required to accept more and more of this shit and the destruction of lives and livelihoods? Forget targetting the caricature of 'conspiracy theorist' and justify this lockdown! On the point of the seasonal flu if you do take all the stats as presented then Covid is 5x to 10x deadlier than seasonal flu based on IFR literature. Even at the lower end of estimates it’s still got a higher IFR than flu. The last 5 years of Flu associated deaths according to PHE calculated using FluMoMo (a surveillance system for flu based on testing, GP appointments, hospital admissions, google searches, gp phone calls and other stuff). These numbers are subject to all the caveats being levelled at Covid, most of these people aren’t tested for seasonal flu but go into the figures anyway. (So if you are adjusting for Covid in that manner, you must do the same for flu.) 15/16 : 7371 16/17: 15,047 17/18: 22,087 18/19: 3966 19/20: 7990 (up to week 9 2020, season usually ends in Week 20 which is May.) CDC using the flu surveillance estimate a lower bound of 39,000,000 flu illnesses this season in the US and an upper bound of 62,000 flu associated deaths giving an upper bound IFR (upper bound deaths, lower bound infections) of ~0.15%. Which is lower than the even the most optimistic Covid IFR estimates which was put together by Ionnadis or approx 0.26%. Most have it at least double that. The lower bound IFR (lower bound deaths and highest bound of cases) is 24,000/56,000,000 = 0.04% IFR. So if you take the figures at face value for both diseases, seasonal flu isn’t more deadly at all.
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Post by Northy on Jul 7, 2020 12:49:16 GMT
How is it? You'll see the stats for other countries in the thread. People would do it and if they see more people wearing them they will join in. You won't get everyone but it could be done to a decent level. It's clearly a good thing and people really need to get on board with it and get it into their skulls that they are doing a civic duty. Agree, on a rare occasion I went into town on Saturday, and went into a shop I used regularly before lockdown with my mask on, I was greeted with 'are you going to rob us' the staff didn't have masks or visors on, so I left
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