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Post by Pugsley on Feb 27, 2020 18:17:16 GMT
Stoke fans knowing fuck all about footballers shocker.
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Overrated
Feb 27, 2020 19:20:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 19:20:58 GMT
It's not just Joe Allen. Quite a few of our players have big reputations that bely their actual ability. Clucas was a bit better last night, but he's the invisible man personified. We have a few of that ilk. The only footballers on show in Black last night were Collins, Powell and Campbell, the latter 2 of which didn't play particularly well. Clucas had a good game last night and was the drive to try and take us forward Trouble was he had no options Exactly , I have often watched Stoke and thought you could put Frank lampard or pirlo in a Stoke top , and they would struggle to find anyone to pass too . It's very poor and it's been going on at Stoke for years .
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Post by wilcopotter on Feb 27, 2020 19:23:45 GMT
If it wasn’t for the midfield we’d be in the bottom 3, because the strikers are shite.
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Overrated
Feb 27, 2020 19:35:31 GMT
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Post by Simon Drainrod on Feb 27, 2020 19:35:31 GMT
Has there ever been a more Marmite Stoke player than Joe Allen?
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Overrated
Feb 27, 2020 19:39:51 GMT
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 27, 2020 19:39:51 GMT
Joe Allen must be the most overrated player to ever play for scfc. Watched the game lastnite and he offered nothing again He must be getting picked on reputation. A lot of supporters say our defence is the problem but I think it’s the centre midfield we are so lightweight it’s unreal. I disagree. Opinions eh.
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Overrated
Feb 27, 2020 19:54:12 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 27, 2020 19:54:12 GMT
O’Neill loves the bloke so that’s all that matters and the same goes for Butland
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Feb 27, 2020 20:18:42 GMT
Joe Allen must be the most overrated player to ever play for scfc. Watched the game lastnite and he offered nothing again He must be getting picked on reputation. A lot of supporters say our defence is the problem but I think it’s the centre midfield we are so lightweight it’s unreal. Overrated by who?? Most posts about him are like this one - slagging him off. O'Neill has chosen to make him captain but what does he know? OK he got a footballing minnow to a World Cup but apart from that he wouldn't know a footballer if one buggered him in the shower.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 20:21:58 GMT
I’ve never been a fan of joe Allen but jeez we’d be fucked without him currently He’s been excellent since O’Neill arrived I think had we lost him also in Jan we'd be in trouble I do think we miss that horrible midfielder that many teams have in this league. I really wanted us to get Harry Arter in the Summer, utter pain in the arse of a player and hard to like but what I think we're missing. Our midfield is too nice if that makes sense, we need a right git in there.
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Overrated
Feb 27, 2020 20:26:30 GMT
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Post by bertiestan on Feb 27, 2020 20:26:30 GMT
I’ve never been a fan of joe Allen but jeez we’d be fucked without him currently He’s been excellent since O’Neill arrived I think had we lost him also in Jan we'd be in trouble I do think we miss that horrible midfielder that many teams have in this league. I really wanted us to get Harry Arter in the Summer, utter pain in the arse of a player and hard to like but what I think we're missing. Our midfield is too nice if that makes sense, we need a right git in there. Pearson would be the one for me
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 20:28:28 GMT
I think had we lost him also in Jan we'd be in trouble I do think we miss that horrible midfielder that many teams have in this league. I really wanted us to get Harry Arter in the Summer, utter pain in the arse of a player and hard to like but what I think we're missing. Our midfield is too nice if that makes sense, we need a right git in there. Pearson would be the one for me Yep , horrible player but rather have him than play against him.
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Post by stokieoldboy on Feb 27, 2020 20:51:30 GMT
If we hadn’t got Joe Allen,we would be bottom of the league right now, my only criticism of Joe,would be, he tries to hard at times,trying to do the work of other players around him who are fcukg bone idle, and are stealing a living.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 27, 2020 22:43:09 GMT
I’ve never been a fan of joe Allen but jeez we’d be fucked without him currently He’s been excellent since O’Neill arrived He hasn't had a good game in a while and with Allen using the word good is stretching it a bit.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 27, 2020 22:44:58 GMT
If we hadn’t got Joe Allen,we would be bottom of the league right now, my only criticism of Joe,would be, he tries to hard at times,trying to do the work of other players around him who are fcukg bone idle, and are stealing a living. If we had signed a proper and capable DM instead of him we may still be in the Prem,
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Post by thequietman on Feb 27, 2020 22:55:07 GMT
The Whelan comparison is a bit strange because Whelan was doing a job effectively for years that was unglamorous and misunderstood while Allen had before MON neglected large parts of his job. His role is all action midfielder, which is more 'showier' and you very much do notice when he's playing well or badly. That's fair. Whelan was kind of invisible but you sure missed him when he wasn't there, I think that's a big compliment even if 'invisible' doesn't sound like one! Yep, that's exactly what I meant with the comparison, Gods. Completely different players and roles, and sometimes you wonder what on earth they're actually contributing, but the difference when they're not playing is glaring.
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 28, 2020 4:58:31 GMT
Joe, much like Whelan, is like the sideboard you walk past every day. It's only when it's gone you discover that all your junk is scattered all over the place because you no longer have a junk drawer. Also, you can't find your best cravat because they're no longer in the bottom drawer. I like Joe. He's very useful even though he needs a good polish every now and then. OS. Steve Foley was good in the sideboard role. As was Didier Deschamps.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Feb 28, 2020 8:12:15 GMT
If we hadn’t got Joe Allen,we would be bottom of the league right now, my only criticism of Joe,would be, he tries to hard at times,trying to do the work of other players around him who are fcukg bone idle, and are stealing a living. If we had signed a proper and capable DM instead of him we may still be in the Prem, Dear Lord! Anyone looking for a perfect illustration of the word 'scapegoating' should be referred to this post.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 28, 2020 8:21:00 GMT
If we had signed a proper and capable DM instead of him we may still be in the Prem, Dear Lord! Anyone looking for a perfect illustration of the word 'scapegoating' should be referred to this post. Not sure that's what's being said - plus both statements are true. We'd likely be worse off this season had Allen not performed as he has over the last few weeks. The lack of an actual defensive midfielder to replace Whelan in the Prem who could do the same job was a contributing factor to our demise.
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Overrated
Feb 28, 2020 8:27:44 GMT
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Feb 28, 2020 8:27:44 GMT
Dear Lord! Anyone looking for a perfect illustration of the word 'scapegoating' should be referred to this post. Not sure that's what's being said - plus both statements are true. We'd likely be worse off this season had Allen not performed as he has over the last few weeks. The lack of an actual defensive midfielder to replace Whelan in the Prem who could do the same job was a contributing factor to our demise. Recruitment as a whole was an issue (as were many other things) - suggesting that the signing of one particular (named) player instead of another (unidentified) player is a gross (and lazy) oversimplification.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 28, 2020 8:35:31 GMT
Not sure that's what's being said - plus both statements are true. We'd likely be worse off this season had Allen not performed as he has over the last few weeks. The lack of an actual defensive midfielder to replace Whelan in the Prem who could do the same job was a contributing factor to our demise. Recruitment as a whole was an issue (as were many other things) - suggesting that the signing of one particular (named) player instead of another (unidentified) player is a gross (and lazy) oversimplification. To a point, but Allen and where to play him has been a major problem and certainly was while we were a top flight club and there is an argument he wasn't especially the kind of player we needed. It was part of Hughes getting himself into a bigger and bigger mess, like the wing back nonsense, and replacing Arnie with a freebie while spunking the cash on a centre half we didn't need.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2020 8:43:22 GMT
Recruitment as a whole was an issue (as were many other things) - suggesting that the signing of one particular (named) player instead of another (unidentified) player is a gross (and lazy) oversimplification. To a point, but Allen and where to play him has been a major problem and certainly was while we were a top flight club and there is an argument he wasn't especially the kind of player we needed. It was part of Hughes getting himself into a bigger and bigger mess, like the wing back nonsense, and replacing Arnie with a freebie while spunking the cash on a centre half we didn't need. To be fair Arnie cost sod all but see your point. Was a tough player to replace and was baffled why we didn't go for James Collins to cover our CB probs ( maybe we did who knows?). I think Allen the boo boy for many as we always seem to have one, I agree with someone above that he seems to try and do too much sometimes. Said on another thread that we need that nasty player in the middle to help out. If only Gentile was still about
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 28, 2020 8:58:37 GMT
To a point, but Allen and where to play him has been a major problem and certainly was while we were a top flight club and there is an argument he wasn't especially the kind of player we needed. It was part of Hughes getting himself into a bigger and bigger mess, like the wing back nonsense, and replacing Arnie with a freebie while spunking the cash on a centre half we didn't need. To be fair Arnie cost sod all but see your point. Was a tough player to replace and was baffled why we didn't go for James Collins to cover our CB probs ( maybe we did who knows?). I think Allen the boo boy for many as we always seem to have one, I agree with someone above that he seems to try and do too much sometimes. Said on another thread that we need that nasty player in the middle to help out. If only Gentile was still about Wasn't Gentile a centre half? I don't think it's a question of having to have a boo boy as much as he wasn't, by his own admission, performing. He's been an important player since we appointed a manager who has the stones/nous to get him to play with a bit of discipline in a shape that suits him.
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Post by mallorcanstokie on Feb 28, 2020 9:02:09 GMT
Joe Allen is not a holding midfield player. His disciplined positional sense is nil, but as a battling midfielder disrupting opposition possession he is excellent and has the ability to get forward supporting most attacks, just wish he could pass or shoot straight. on balance, in our position, we are far better with Joe in the team than without him.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 28, 2020 10:02:28 GMT
If we had signed a proper and capable DM instead of him we may still be in the Prem, Dear Lord! Anyone looking for a perfect illustration of the word 'scapegoating' should be referred to this post. There was plenty of them in the relegation year tbf
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 28, 2020 10:07:26 GMT
Not sure that's what's being said - plus both statements are true. We'd likely be worse off this season had Allen not performed as he has over the last few weeks. The lack of an actual defensive midfielder to replace Whelan in the Prem who could do the same job was a contributing factor to our demise. Recruitment as a whole was an issue (as were many other things) - suggesting that the signing of one particular (named) player instead of another (unidentified) player is a gross (and lazy) oversimplification. Not really, we needed a proper DM and we got Allen, a player that didn't fit in anywhere, I'm not saying its all down to just his signing as we all know there was plenty of poor signings in the last couple of years that lead to relegation, but he wasn't needed in any way and is just another to add to the list. Given that he's meant to be a Prem quality player and we're paying him obscene amounts of money for this league do you really think his performances have warranted it?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2020 11:25:02 GMT
To be fair Arnie cost sod all but see your point. Was a tough player to replace and was baffled why we didn't go for James Collins to cover our CB probs ( maybe we did who knows?). I think Allen the boo boy for many as we always seem to have one, I agree with someone above that he seems to try and do too much sometimes. Said on another thread that we need that nasty player in the middle to help out. If only Gentile was still about Wasn't Gentile a centre half? I don't think it's a question of having to have a boo boy as much as he wasn't, by his own admission, performing. He's been an important player since we appointed a manager who has the stones/nous to get him to play with a bit of discipline in a shape that suits him. Certainly was but did play that defensive midfielder role at times. Remember him sitting in there in a game v Ajax, the man was an animal but all teams need one
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Post by boothenesque on Feb 28, 2020 11:27:27 GMT
It was the same when he was in the great Wales side that reached the SF, they would have won it if they hadn't played Joe Allen. As OP says THE most overrated player to EVER put on a Stoke shirt. For a moment I thought the OP was wankeypotter.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 28, 2020 11:54:57 GMT
Wasn't Gentile a centre half? I don't think it's a question of having to have a boo boy as much as he wasn't, by his own admission, performing. He's been an important player since we appointed a manager who has the stones/nous to get him to play with a bit of discipline in a shape that suits him. Certainly was but did play that defensive midfielder role at times. Remember him sitting in there in a game v Ajax, the man was an animal but all teams need one Agree, you want your DM to be as terrifying as possible, ideally.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 28, 2020 11:57:19 GMT
It was the same when he was in the great Wales side that reached the SF, they would have won it if they hadn't played Joe Allen. As OP says THE most overrated player to EVER put on a Stoke shirt. For a moment I thought the OP was wankeypotter. He hasn't, on the whole, performed for Stoke like he has for Wales though, has he? And he's seemed to have a much clearer idea of what his role is in a set up that suits him and demands more discipline of him than ours have until about November this year.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 28, 2020 12:00:03 GMT
Stoke fans knowing fuck all about footballers shocker. When he tries to play football is when he struggles.
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Overrated
Feb 28, 2020 16:48:55 GMT
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Feb 28, 2020 16:48:55 GMT
Recruitment as a whole was an issue (as were many other things) - suggesting that the signing of one particular (named) player instead of another (unidentified) player is a gross (and lazy) oversimplification. Not really, we needed a proper DM and we got Allen, a player that didn't fit in anywhere, I'm not saying its all down to just his signing as we all know there was plenty of poor signings in the last couple of years that lead to relegation, but he wasn't needed in any way and is just another to add to the list. Given that he's meant to be a Prem quality player and we're paying him obscene amounts of money for this league do you really think his performances have warranted it? Which is a more nuanced arguement and one that - now we at last have a manager who seems to know how he does fit in - might best be resolved at the end of the season. However the view that had we signed a DM instead of Allen, all the while Berehino, Choupo-Moting, Jese, Wimmer, Imbula etc were stinking the place out under a manager who had clearly lost the plot followed by one given a hospital pass and clearly out of his depth - we would still be in the Prem is - imho- palpable nonsense.
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