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Post by lordb on Feb 24, 2020 22:28:34 GMT
Fair. The job he did with NI is tremendous with average to poor players and that’s what got me. Unlike Coleman who I wouldn’t have touched with a barge pole tbh. He had two potential world class players at his disposal. They should do well. Bale and allen?  Davies and Vokes? |
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 24, 2020 22:40:02 GMT
I think he’s doing a bit better than ok considering the shit show he inherited. I wasn’t overly excited by his appointment but I think he’s hardly put a foot wrong since arriving. Really? I think he is making basic mistakes fairly often. The difference is the players seem to have bought in with him. H Isn't that true for all good managers? |
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Post by foxysgloves on Feb 24, 2020 22:52:36 GMT
I think he’s doing a bit better than ok considering the shit show he inherited. I wasn’t overly excited by his appointment but I think he’s hardly put a foot wrong since arriving. Really? I think he is making basic mistakes fairly often. The difference is the players seem to have bought in with him. H Looking at what he’s got to work with I think it was inevitable we’d have ups and downs. Currently though the ups outweigh the downs and he’s kept us on a steady upward trajectory. I think the fact the players seem to be with him is surely something he deserves credit for. He’s got a tune out of many who had been written off and has got the likes of Allen, Powell and Campbell performing at a consistently high level. |
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Post by bojanwonder on Feb 24, 2020 23:18:21 GMT
Indeed. And promotion next season would be the absolute worst thing to happen to us. It all takes time and we need a solid squad of players before we are ready to face the prem again. 'Don't run before you can walk' has never been more apt for us right now, given the last three years. What, we would be better off getting relegated next season than being promoted? Porque? No of course relegation wouldn't be a better option. I just think that if we can avoid the drop this year, then a slow rebuild would be the best option. Hopefully finishing mid table next season with a view to play offs or automatic promotion the following year. |
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Feb 24, 2020 23:32:20 GMT
If he can win 5 more games before the end of the season, he will have won more league games than Jones and Rowett combined in 2/3rds of a season . Quite remarkable really and also very shit on the part of Rowett and Jones at the same time. |
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Post by skelman on Feb 25, 2020 9:42:40 GMT
If he can win 5 more games before the end of the season, he will have won more league games than Jones and Rowett combined in 2/3rds of a season . Quite remarkable really and also very shit on the part of Rowett and Jones at the same time. And 'thank the Lord' we didn't land Moyes!!!  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 13:25:39 GMT
If he can win 5 more games before the end of the season, he will have won more league games than Jones and Rowett combined in 2/3rds of a season . Wow that's some stat and good chance will happen. |
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Post by Lesalanos on Feb 25, 2020 21:15:19 GMT
I'm with DaveJ on this one, you're a miserable get, you thought Nathan Jones was the great white hope. To be fair you have done well in the Marriage stakes, you must have something we've missed  Oh here we go I've just messaged Jonno to thank him for taking my post in the spirit it was given. You know what I probably am a miserable sod. It's years and years of being let down by a mistress you can't let go and then amazingly a capped Welshman (who we always backed btw take note Shawry) got us to the promised land, then another Welshman provided some of the greatest results and atmospheres bar Macari that I've ever had the pleasure of. Then just while everything is fucking golden and I've played the round of my life probably never to be repeated Les goes fucking tonto and ruins all his good work! On the flip side I've just had Sky Q installed after a 4 year hiatus and you are welcome anytime for the arra's H xx Top man, you're a legend. I must have missed the round of your life. Would love to watch the arras, as long as you don't moan about o'Neill xx |
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Post by stokeykez on Feb 25, 2020 21:21:50 GMT
If we got relegated this year it would feel far worse than from the prem.
We were a team in decline, full of individuals who didnt give a shit about the club.
Finally it appears we have a manager who is level headed and rationale and seems to be a good man manager, to think we get relegated due to the utter shit results in the first half that did so much damage.
Come on michael,win the first battle which is to avoid relegation
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 7, 2020 20:11:01 GMT
The fight back goes on. Brilliant result today. Some of our passing in the first half was mesmerising.
But don't be surprised if he goes all defensive at Reading and plays Vokes up top.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 12:15:51 GMT
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Post by markby on Mar 12, 2020 13:20:26 GMT
"O’Neill likes to paint himself as an attack-minded coach and his start at Stoke supports this notion"
That may be the case since taking over at the bet365, but I'd characterise him as pragmatic. That is, Stoke's position on taking over meant that hard-fought draws/being hard to beat would not be enough, victories were essential. And as a famous old Scots manager once observed, "If ye dinnae score, ye cannae win!"
When Michael took over NI, all our best players were big, strong, obdurate defenders, while we lacked goalscorers. His first priority was to make us competitive (no relegation in international football, obviously), so he made sure our defence was sound, while hoping to nick goals from set-pieces.
Four or five years on and that had changed. Our big defenders had mostly retired, bar Evans and Cathcart, two ball-playing CB's. However, we had a new generation of young midfielders coming through, so he transformed our game plan to take in a high pressing, attacking game.
My guess is that with Stoke lacking prolific, goal-scoring strikers, he instead concentrated on finding goals from his midfielders, with some success.
It will be interesting to see who he signs in the summer, assuming he's allowed to bring new players in. Who knows, he might conclude that he needs to concentrate on his defence next?
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Post by skelman on Mar 12, 2020 13:35:11 GMT
Whether MON is the man for the job long term who can say. But the indicators are very positive. However, looking simply at the bald stats, Jones had a win rate of 0.53 ppg with 8 points from 15 games which would have returned us 24 points over a season and certain relegation. MON has a return of 29 points from 19 games at a rate of 1.53 ppg which if extrapolated over a season would put us on 70 pts and on the verge of the play offs. All with virtually the same players that Jones failed so miserably with. Clearly Jones' tenure is a very flawed yardstick to compare with but the fact that the players are the same makes it a valid comparison. Anyone who says he hasn't done a fabulous job so far is clearly insane or on an agenda. The fact that he hasn't managed a sizeable club before is a complete red herring. Well mate that's an extremely balanced view. Hadn't realised before you had command of such farty vocabulary. Spot on mind you!  UTMP |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 12, 2020 14:08:18 GMT
Whether MON is the man for the job long term who can say. But the indicators are very positive. However, looking simply at the bald stats, Jones had a win rate of 0.53 ppg with 8 points from 15 games which would have returned us 24 points over a season and certain relegation. MON has a return of 29 points from 19 games at a rate of 1.53 ppg which if extrapolated over a season would put us on 70 pts and on the verge of the play offs. All with virtually the same players that Jones failed so miserably with. Clearly Jones' tenure is a very flawed yardstick to compare with but the fact that the players are the same makes it a valid comparison. Anyone who says he hasn't done a fabulous job so far is clearly insane or on an agenda. The fact that he hasn't managed a sizeable club before is a complete red herring. Well mate that's an extremely balanced view. Hadn't realised before you had command of such farty vocabulary. Spot on mind you! UTMP Bog off grumpo. |
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Post by cousindupree on Mar 12, 2020 14:15:15 GMT
I don't think there are many if any who don't think he is the right man for the job. His record to date has been unexpected and stunning in equal measures. Two major pluses for me has been:
Goals scored...after years of austerity in the goals for column he has turned this round with some very iffy (campbell apart) forwards. His philosophy of wanting attacking football is absolutely right and gives you the best chance to get promoted.
Man management...It's fairly obvious that he has significant skill in this area. Most of the players have improved under him mainly because they buy into what he has to say. It must have come as a welcome relief after suffering Jones's amateur psychobabble and seemingly sticking their fingers in their ears to Jones's messages. However the crowning glory for MON since he has been here was to persuade Campbell to rebuff Rangers and Celtic and remain with us. That was some result.
My big hope is that MON can pull off some miracles in the transfer market in the summer. It's an obvious statement to make but only a stellar window where he brings in 3/4 players who significantly improve our first xi will get us in the promotion shake up.
The fans forum was very enlightening and fair play to the panel for answering most of the questions but the one on recruitment continues to worry me. The process and the recruitment team/ scouting network needs major surgery. My take from the fudged answer is that we are going to continue with the manager shouldering the majority of the burden. I am not convinced he has the contacts and the reach to find the gems we need, he knows Scotland but that's about it. We need more reach and MON needs help. Summer will be fascinating.
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Post by Gifton on Mar 12, 2020 14:49:51 GMT
It's very easy to discount MON's experience with NI, as the old cliché that international management and club management are completely different has coloured our perception over time.
We must remember though, that NI are not England, he has performed wonders with a limited group of players through hard work, consistency and a clear plan.
The NI Euro 2016 squad seemed to possess a certain togetherness, much like a well managed club side and he's just had to implement a system and work at it, with the same players over a long period, tweaking it over time. He's done a fantastic job there, overachieving massively.
Given our current predicament, particularly taking FFP in mind, his appointment looks inspired. Wether it came about more via luck or judgement doesn't overly concern me. If he can over achieve here, that can only be a great thing as despite our problems, many clubs in the championship will still be envious of our squad come the start of next season.
After he keeps us up this season obviously...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 14:54:15 GMT
What, we would be better off getting relegated next season than being promoted? Porque? No of course relegation wouldn't be a better option. I just think that if we can avoid the drop this year, then a slow rebuild would be the best option. Hopefully finishing mid table next season with a view to play offs or automatic promotion the following year. In theory I agree it would be good to just improve on what is being done now, see some kids establish themselves, and have a stressfree season, but these two past seasons we've learned that there is no such thing as a middle ground in the Championship. You're either chasing promotion (even when the manager denies it) or you're avoiding getting into or being in the relegation dogfight. The minute you're 12th and think you're safe, 5 games later, you're hovering just above the relegation zone, and then you have to bring out different tactics, different mentality, different players, which sounds easy, especially if you're in FM, but many's the teams that have failed to adapt, as have we. |
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