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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 16, 2020 11:28:36 GMT
He needs replacing next season, regardless of what division we are in. I think that is true from perspective of both player and club.
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Post by shrewspotter on Feb 16, 2020 11:39:33 GMT
He needs replacing next season, regardless of what division we are in. I think that is true from perspective of both player and club. very true. He is a top keeper but needs that move. I expect him to continue in goal for us though, there’s no way I can see Federici coming in, maybe Davies but that’s more likely next season
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2020 11:45:48 GMT
He needs replacing next season, regardless of what division we are in. I think that is true from perspective of both player and club. Yeah I agree. His career has gone backwards at a dramatic rate and he needs a move to try and get his game back to the level it was. On the flip side, we need a complete clear out of all the playing staff that have seen us through this period of form that has seen us at the bottom of this dreadful league.
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Butland
Feb 16, 2020 12:28:51 GMT
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Post by wilcopotter on Feb 16, 2020 12:28:51 GMT
Not as good whe thinks he is. Would struggle to play in the Premier at present. Think he’s going the Joe Hart way. Good shot stopper, that’s about it. Never gets anywhere near a corner. Kicking iffy.
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Butland
Feb 16, 2020 12:41:31 GMT
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Post by chuckrocky on Feb 16, 2020 12:41:31 GMT
Not as good whe thinks he is. Would struggle to play in the Premier at present. Think he’s going the Joe Hart way. Good shot stopper, that’s about it. Never gets anywhere near a corner. Kicking iffy. Good shot stopper?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 16, 2020 13:01:38 GMT
Why he was ever bought back into the side I will never get.
He needed a loan in January.
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Post by adi on Feb 16, 2020 14:04:57 GMT
As someone has posted in another thread, on terms of shots against saved, Butland is the worst performer, which makes sense as he’s been shit.
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Butland
Feb 16, 2020 18:00:48 GMT
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Post by stokie1 on Feb 16, 2020 18:00:48 GMT
Any manager that’s studied him this season will be saying to his players to target him at set pieces. By not coming out for anything outside the six yard box he’s backing his defenders to cut out every single ball that comes In. When we play a big physical side I could see it getting very ugly. Any team that wants to play the percentage game against us will score 2 or 3 a match if they put any sort of pressure on us. The lack of attacking pressure by them yesterday covered up a big weakness in our game. I fear for when we play better sides. MONs doing a cracking job. I just hope he can get Jack to come out and claim crosses or else we’ll drop a lot of point between now and the end of the season. His confidence seems shot to me. He is not coming out for anything anymore. This puts massive pressure on the defense. I don’t think they have confidence in Jack to be honest. I would drop him now. He’s had more than his fair share of chances at Stoke and I honestly don’t think he is good enough.
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Butland
Feb 16, 2020 18:17:11 GMT
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Post by Absolution on Feb 16, 2020 18:17:11 GMT
Any manager that’s studied him this season will be saying to his players to target him at set pieces. By not coming out for anything outside the six yard box he’s backing his defenders to cut out every single ball that comes In. When we play a big physical side I could see it getting very ugly. Any team that wants to play the percentage game against us will score 2 or 3 a match if they put any sort of pressure on us. The lack of attacking pressure by them yesterday covered up a big weakness in our game. I fear for when we play better sides. MONs doing a cracking job. I just hope he can get Jack to come out and claim crosses or else we’ll drop a lot of point between now and the end of the season. His confidence seems shot to me. He is not coming out for anything anymore. This puts massive pressure on the defense. I don’t think they have confidence in Jack to be honest. I would drop him now. He’s had more than his fair share of chances at Stoke and I honestly don’t think he is good enough. To me, he always looks like his first thought is to avoid any kind of injury. Great or even good keepers will put their bodies on the line. Jack won't.
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Butland
Feb 16, 2020 18:44:34 GMT
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Post by Fred Merger on Feb 16, 2020 18:44:34 GMT
Don't want to see him in goal for us next season. Whichever division we end up in. Absolutely criminal getting beaten on your near post like he does so often!
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Post by greenman on Feb 16, 2020 19:28:09 GMT
He comes out like a defender trying to avoid giving away a penalty for handball.
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Post by f1rew0rks on Feb 16, 2020 19:49:04 GMT
federici was doing ok for us and somehow got dropped for Jack????
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Butland
Feb 16, 2020 19:57:03 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 16, 2020 19:57:03 GMT
federici was doing ok for us and somehow got dropped for Jack???? We lost 6 of the 8 games he played and he's now no3 keeper.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2020 20:00:01 GMT
federici was doing ok for us and somehow got dropped for Jack???? We lost 6 of the 8 games he played and he's now no3 keeper. We've lost 3 of the last 4. Federici didn't make any mistakes that directly led to goals, Butland has made loads and continues to do so
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 16, 2020 20:03:03 GMT
We lost 6 of the 8 games he played and he's now no3 keeper. We've lost 3 of the last 4. Federici didn't make any mistakes that directly led to goals, Butland has made loads and continues to do so He made mistakes at Crawley, birmingham and millwall and that is just off the top of my head. Jack may be lots of things, but worse than Federici and Davies he absolutely isn't
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2020 20:33:58 GMT
We've lost 3 of the last 4. Federici didn't make any mistakes that directly led to goals, Butland has made loads and continues to do so He made mistakes at Crawley, birmingham and millwall and that is just off the top of my head. Jack may be lots of things, but worse than Federici and Davies he absolutely isn't Butland is 1 of the worst keepers in the division this season
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 16, 2020 21:31:15 GMT
He made mistakes at Crawley, birmingham and millwall and that is just off the top of my head. Jack may be lots of things, but worse than Federici and Davies he absolutely isn't Butland is 1 of the worst keepers in the division this season In your opinion yes. He also has more clean sheets in the championship than any other keeper since we arrived in this league despite being largely crap by his own standards. Stats can prove anything you want them to prove.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 16, 2020 22:14:07 GMT
After Jones, Butland is the main reason we go down if it happens.
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Butland
Feb 16, 2020 22:14:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2020 22:14:37 GMT
Butland is 1 of the worst keepers in the division this season In your opinion yes. He also has more clean sheets in the championship than any other keeper since we arrived in this league despite being largely crap by his own standards. Stats can prove anything you want them to prove. You've seen Davies play 1 game and decided he's worse than Butland. That's a laughable conclusion to come to. He made a mistake that led to a goal I accept that,but 1 game ! He was voted the best keeper in league 1 last season
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Butland
Feb 16, 2020 22:19:26 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 16, 2020 22:19:26 GMT
In your opinion yes. He also has more clean sheets in the championship than any other keeper since we arrived in this league despite being largely crap by his own standards. Stats can prove anything you want them to prove. You've seen Davies play 1 game and decided he's worse than Butland. That's a laughable conclusion to come to. He made a mistake that led to a goal I accept that,but 1 game ! He was voted the best keeper in league 1 last season I decided he was crap long before he played a game for us. He's not quite as bad as haugaard but he's not far off. Technically, my 6 year old is a better keeper than Davies and I'm not joking. Watch them warm up and see for yourself.
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Post by blackpoolred on Feb 16, 2020 22:33:07 GMT
Potential to be a great keeper, but not sure he is being managed correctly at Stoke - well, nothing is managed correctly at Stoke so odds on it is the same with the playing staff.
For me has been doing alright lately, yesterday you could argue at fault for all 4
1st: Really acute angle and gets beat at the near post, his position though is actually good and I am not sure how that managed to get past him 2nd: His weakest area for me is his positioning on his one-on-one. Pause the replay at the point the QPR player is about to shoot and Butland is on the floor and has dived to his right - as a consequence has left the entire goal to shoot at for the QPR forward 3rd: Same as the 1st really, he seems to be in the right position, but I am not sure how it has managed to get in from such an acute angle 4th: Ball is moving all over the place and bounced before him and did well to get something behind it, but maybe could have guided it away from goal, unfortunately it went straight back out to the middle of the penalty area and of course with his luck straight to a QPR player
HIs body language not good at the end of the game and it is a shame to see such a talent wasted here at SCFC - I think for the good of all he needs to go to a better ran club with some top goalkeeping coaches.
He does seem to keep getting some of the basic things wrong which does make you wonder if our backroom staff are doing any post match analysis with him.
It has to be said that he possibly has the hardest job in football with the shower of shite he has in front of him
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Post by threepoints on Feb 17, 2020 7:45:04 GMT
federici was doing ok for us and somehow got dropped for Jack???? We lost 6 of the 8 games he played and he's now no3 keeper. Buttland has suffered a drop in form, something that happens to a lot of players when they come to Stoke City. We have seen this so many times.
I'd move him on, but can't see anyone paying decent money for him or (I suspect) match his wages at Stoke.
Stoke City need someone to come into the club to sort out what is wrong.
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Butland
Feb 17, 2020 13:03:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 13:03:18 GMT
Jack is fortunate he's not playing in the premier league where his every move gets analysed by pundits on the BBC,Soccer Saturday,Goals on sunday etc and not just by a few Oatcakers and Martin Spinks
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 17, 2020 13:16:20 GMT
I was surprised Butland got brought back in for Federici who I thought was doing ok. When he came back his form improved and in the game against West Brom and I thought he'd turned a corner - he started coming for balls into the box and you could see what it meant to the defence when they started to rally round and congratulate him. Since then he's gone backwards - he just doesn't dominate his area and you can see the defence (who have to take their fair share of the blame) losing confidence as a result. Whether it's confidence or a fundamental flaw in his game I don't know - probably a bit of both.
I'd be surprised if he's picked for the next game and I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't play another games for us. I genuinely hope he gets his career back on track but for whatever reason I can't see it being at Stoke.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Feb 17, 2020 13:21:18 GMT
People just analysing the 4 goals he conceeded but there was also those open goals that Jack wasnt anywhere near.
The worst offence was a corner that dropped 2 yards out in the middle of the goal. Butland was totally unmarked but the ball easily cleared over his head and dropped to a QPR player who contrived to help Jack out by putting it way wide when it was easier to score.
Jack is constantly rooted to his goalline and Im sure that is a having a negative effect on the defenders in front of him.
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Butland
Feb 17, 2020 15:49:44 GMT
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Feb 17, 2020 15:49:44 GMT
People just analysing the 4 goals he conceeded but there was also those open goals that Jack wasnt anywhere near. The worst offence was a corner that dropped 2 yards out in the middle of the goal. Butland was totally unmarked but the ball easily cleared over his head and dropped to a QPR player who contrived to help Jack out by putting it way wide when it was easier to score. Jack is constantly rooted to his goalline and Im sure that is a having a negative effect on the defenders in front of him. Yes, and this is the incident mentioned on the other thread where Clucas bollocked him. He was rooted to his line again.
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Butland
Feb 17, 2020 16:07:16 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 17, 2020 16:07:16 GMT
The difference between a decent keeper and a very good keeper Is the good keeper dominates his area and makes it his
Sadly to me since his injury butland has become reactive rather than proactive He never seems to be on his toes
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Butland
Feb 17, 2020 16:57:29 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 17, 2020 16:57:29 GMT
The difference between a decent keeper and a very good keeper Is the good keeper dominates his area and makes it his Sadly to me since his injury butland has become reactive rather than proactive He never seems to be on his toes There are very few keepers who dominate their box in the way that you describe.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 17, 2020 17:40:03 GMT
Total overreaction to Butland’s performance on Saturday in my opinion and having seen the goals again this afternoon for the 1st time since Saturday I’ll stick to my original thought that only the 4th goal he’s culpable for.Yes he’s not the keeper he once was but the constant abuse is ridiculous
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Butland
Feb 17, 2020 17:46:04 GMT
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Post by TinkerT on Feb 17, 2020 17:46:04 GMT
The difference between a decent keeper and a very good keeper Is the good keeper dominates his area and makes it his Sadly to me since his injury butland has become reactive rather than proactive He never seems to be on his toes There are very few keepers who dominate their box in the way that you describe. Begovic used to. You'd always be confident on him coming for crosses and corners, with jack its the opposite
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