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Post by Homzy on Dec 5, 2007 19:43:54 GMT
Nothing earth shattering but I thought it was worth you all knowing that we (365MediaGroup) got an outside company to develop the new Rivals network.
Anyway, it's fair to say 365 are just about as pissed off with the end result as we are so at least we shouldn't have to put up with that shower for too long.
Like I say, not the world's most fascinating news but there you go!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 5, 2007 19:44:38 GMT
What do You do within the organisation LiverpoolStokie1?
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Post by lordeffinghamhunt on Dec 5, 2007 19:46:37 GMT
Design crappy football forums by any chance?
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Post by Homzy on Dec 5, 2007 19:47:16 GMT
I'm a journo for TEAMtalk - all part of the same group.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Dec 5, 2007 20:27:26 GMT
It should'nt take too much to improve that other new site.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Dec 5, 2007 20:31:09 GMT
liverpool, do you get to have much to do with the football365 site? Love the mediawatch page. What is the site they always refer to as soccers***?
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Post by Homzy on Dec 5, 2007 20:35:10 GMT
Yeah I sit right next to the F365 lot (or should I say the F365 two!) - don't know what site Soccershit is though! I'm at work now and no one else knows either, they're a bloody weird bunch!
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Dec 5, 2007 20:42:58 GMT
I use f365 for most of my footie news, they are very prem centric but there are some good bits to it, Sarah Winterburn is a pretty decent comment writer.
Don't suppose you saw the "gary breville" thread on their MB did you?
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Post by Homzy on Dec 5, 2007 20:52:56 GMT
I don't look on it a lot to be honest - we all look down on them because they say bloody Chelski and Manure etc!! It's got a real cult following to be fair though. I'm not just saying this because it's my site but if you like the news on F365 you should use TEAMtalk. F365 just copies all our stories anyway except they only use the best of the Champ stuff, whereas we use all of it. TEAMtalk has more Stoke news than any of other other sites - F365, SkySports, SportingLife, ITV, etc - and the messageboard is pretty good as well! Plug over
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Post by Olgrligm on Dec 5, 2007 20:54:19 GMT
Ah, but SportingLife has the live league table!
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Post by Homzy on Dec 5, 2007 20:55:36 GMT
I know, the buggers!!
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bryanshawcross
Lads'n'Dads
ZAK celebrates another Stoke win!!
Posts: 74
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Post by bryanshawcross on Dec 5, 2007 21:01:51 GMT
Rivals....shiiiittte
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Dec 5, 2007 21:17:26 GMT
I really only go on 365 for mediawatch most days, and then generally glance at the headlines while i'm there and maybe read a couple of their comment bits over the week. Their MB is pretty amusing at times, my flatmate goes on there a bit and links me the best threads, the gary breville one was photoshopping genius. I spend enough time on the oatcake without another MB, in fact on that realisation it is time to power down.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Dec 5, 2007 22:27:45 GMT
LS I reckon that Boothen site's not bad!
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Post by daverichards on Dec 6, 2007 7:56:34 GMT
I find NewsNow is the best as it picks up all the stories from all over, even if it just links you to the pages of the other sites
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Post by Pedropotter on Dec 6, 2007 8:22:11 GMT
Im with you ID, Newsnow is pretty good.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 18:41:31 GMT
I don't know if the Oatcake people involved want comments on this, or not? Anyhow, it seems better to put stuff here than take the mickey at the new 365 site (which ain't on really, is it).
The thing is the outside development company haven't developed much at all. The Forum is basically the freely downloadable "example" code from Microsoft's .NET site. The news and other "modules" are also very much like the "dashboard" example code available from the same place. About the only thing they seem to have done is made the example code work across multiple sites/sub-domains ... at that ain't hard.
Either the outside development company is related to one of Rivals/365 Management, or everyone was too drunk to pay attention past Powerpoint slide number-3.
There is almost no chance, and absolutely no point, in someone trying to develop a .NET messageboard from scratch. If it must run on windows, then there are plenty of ASP forums you can buy in for nothing; or there's even more "Pearl" based stuff that will run on Windows with the free "Peral on Windows" kit.
The chances of someone developing all of the functionality that MessageBoard development has under gone in the last ten years (like the RETURN Key needing to be parsed for HTML display, like last post updated at the top, and like just about every other function not included Microsoft's example code) are pretty damn slim (certainly in a realistic timescale) whether the developers are any good or not (and especially when ready-made components are so cheap in comparison).
If Smudge is serious about making a decision to leave the network (not that I'm saying I think he ouht to ... it won't be that straight forward a decision), I hope he has set himself a deadline ... And I doubt they can fix everything before then (assuming it is before June 2008) ... unless they BUY IN some components (stuff is not that expensive when you "only" want forum and news etc ... And it could still all be plugged into the WebSideStory tracking code ...)
Anyhow ... my 10p worth ... I really hope the mess gets sorted out ... As the young lad over at Facebook is finding out - because of his user tracking system - it takes no time at all for people to find somewhere else to go ... Whether you provide a free service or a paid service, every (in this case, football) "messageboard" will gladly take your userbase from you, if you fuck up.
Good luck anyway boys ... Hope it all works out OK.
ah
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Post by Kenilworth_Stokies on Dec 6, 2007 18:52:53 GMT
A quality inside track, explains a lot. Thanks AndyHar.
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Post by Homzy on Dec 6, 2007 20:17:49 GMT
Andy - I was speaking to the boss about it again at work and it was actually a company Sky own that developed the new site - mykindaplace.
But like I said at the top, 365 obviously aren't happy with the end result so I don't know if they'll get our guys to take a look at it now.
I really hope so as they did a cracking job on TEAMtalk and SkySports - just not sure if messageboards are their forte.
But the main thing is that they are committed to improving it and the boss has even been reading this board as he knows the Stoke site is one of the most popular on the network (2nd behind Everton I believe).
I think the over-zealous swear filter has been sorted now so that's something!
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 6, 2007 20:20:20 GMT
Bloody hell, Andy, you clever sod, I struggle with 'Front Page'. OS.
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Post by Widget123 on Dec 6, 2007 21:40:20 GMT
sounds like progress is being made - but i agree with AndyHar unless a competant dedicated team take over the dev work it'll be june 08 or beyond before the .net tempates are hacked into a working and more importantly user friendly format.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2007 23:01:46 GMT
the .net tempates are hacked into a working and more importantly user friendly format. I know what you're saying, but there's worse than that. Birly (I think it was Birly ... sorry if it was someone else) found the most well known SQL injection attack (long URL in link) that "crashed" the website in about 15-minutes. This just shows how much work has to be done to anticipate all the tricks "robust" messageboard software defeats. A messageboard is among the worst kind of systems to run on the web. Any system that allows users to post data to your servers (especially unstructured data) is very likely to expose your system to hacks much worse than Birly crashing the thing for a short while. Much much worse. I've been developing and running (ASP) websites for 11+ years (I need to retire soon!) but there is no world - no matter how low the development budget - where I agree to have a system like that custom built. (So I am as boring as I appear OS!!) For a lot less than £500 you can buy in an ASP MB system that is at least tested and used by more people than you. You'll find it in Google (either one of the three is better than you have or will get anytime soon). Skysports and Teamtalk are fine sites, but the people who worked on them should be saying the same thing. In the 2007 Internet Land of The-Bot it pays to go with stuff that is tested (and even that gets busted occasionally ...). If you plan on trying to expand the community to get other sites upto the Stoke & Everton level, then personally I'd run a "forum server" on a dedicated unix box, with phpBB or something similar; and let the developers muck about with the "news" and "video" code etc for as long as they like (only admin posts data to that ... so no harm gets done). mykindaplace - AltoHiway, based in Newbury ... taken over a few months ago by Opal (part of Carphone warehouse, based in Manchester). Don't know the people behind Alto, but they had a good reputation ... Was this the new "Manchester Division", by any chance? (And to be fair, if they sold up then the former owners may now be living it up in Panama, flogging apartments to daft old ladies ...) Anyhow - Ditch the DIY forum, get the developer to pay a small amount of wedge for one that works (phpBB including a server to host it on, won't cost £2000 a year). Worry about the news and so on at the developers leisure. ah
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Post by Widget123 on Dec 7, 2007 0:06:46 GMT
agreed Andy, a phpBB or vBulletin forum architecture would have saved 365media the entire hassle of trying to go from scratch. The bot laden interweb of today with its spam amongst the other more seedy sql-injection or more serious rootkit problems just doesnt seem worth inviting to the party by using the custom (and basic) code they've introduced to the rivals network. i worry a lot when i get constant messages from my firewall asking why certain websites are asking me to allow unsigned activex code or other somesuch bollocks. the new rivals site even uses code to by pass the inbuilt IE7 popup blocker. to say i'm unimpressed is a complete understatement.
i run a 4 year old company and if i treated clients the way the rivals network with all its revenue advertising has treated us i'd be out of business tomorrow...
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Post by Kelkerstokie on Dec 7, 2007 10:39:43 GMT
Andy - I was speaking to the boss about it again at work and it was actually a company Sky own that developed the new site - mykindaplace. But like I said at the top, 365 obviously aren't happy with the end result so I don't know if they'll get our guys to take a look at it now. I really hope so as they did a cracking job on TEAMtalk and SkySports - just not sure if messageboards are their forte. But the main thing is that they are committed to improving it and the boss has even been reading this board as he knows the Stoke site is one of the most popular on the network (2nd behind Everton I believe). I think the over-zealous swear filter has been sorted now so that's something! I really think your boss should think about going back to the old board. I'm not worried about where I will get the information about Stoke from, there are plenty of forums which are available. The oatcake has always been by far the best, and I believe that is because of the banter between clubs. I fear that will be lost in the matter of weeks, maybe days if Rivals don't sort it out.
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Post by Homzy on Dec 7, 2007 10:49:57 GMT
I've told them they should just use the Football365 Forum, it's better than either of the two Rivals efforts and this one as well really.
But it's probably best to leave it to the computer geeks - I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about!
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 7, 2007 10:53:03 GMT
Is there anything new in the Whelan link?
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Post by Homzy on Dec 7, 2007 10:54:22 GMT
I haven't heard anything new today but I'm confident it will go ahead if my SW contact is on the money with his info.
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Post by FullerMagic on Dec 7, 2007 10:58:52 GMT
Hope so. He seems just what we need (maybe alongside Diao?), not that I've seen an enormous amount of him.
Hope the talk of interest from bigger clubs is wide of the mark.
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Post by Menorca Stokie on Dec 7, 2007 11:25:47 GMT
Computer geeks are becoming quite a problem. They are very good at making things work however, very often they have no idea and making things user friendly. Why launch the bllody thing if they new it wasn't up to the job? Why not now revert to the old site until the new one can be used. I'm sure Smudge and co are tearing their hair out.
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Post by Admin on Dec 7, 2007 12:07:02 GMT
Computer geeks are becoming quite a problem. They are very good at making things work however, very often they have no idea and making things user friendly. Why launch the bllody thing if they new it wasn't up to the job? Why not now revert to the old site until the new one can be used. I'm sure Smudge and co are tearing their hair out. Hair? Ah yes, I remember hair!
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