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Post by stokeykez on Jan 18, 2020 18:10:18 GMT
Shouldn't mean they lose 5-0 though. They beat Leeds away last week, the loss of one man can't have had that much of an effect. Bloody championship is mad isnt it, cannot predict results
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Post by lordb on Jan 18, 2020 19:08:23 GMT
Get 50 points and we'll be ok, it's that simple. 49 and we go down then ? Unlikely 44 probably go down 45 fifty/fifty 46 should stay up 47 very unlucky to go I now think we will get beyond 50 points
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Post by DC1863 on Jan 18, 2020 19:23:00 GMT
Shouldn't mean they lose 5-0 though. They beat Leeds away last week, the loss of one man can't have had that much of an effect. Lost their last 3 at home now, they've had a decent season but I can see them tailing off from the pack eventually.
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Post by BuzzB on Jan 18, 2020 19:25:07 GMT
Shouldn't mean they lose 5-0 though. They beat Leeds away last week, the loss of one man can't have had that much of an effect. Its a crazy crazy division. Impossible to predict any game with confidence, thats why its so competative.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 19:54:11 GMT
Unlikely 44 probably go down 45 fifty/fifty 46 should stay up 47 very unlucky to go I now think we will get beyond 50 points I wasn't suggesting we would,but when someone says we need 50 points to stay up they are saying 49 relegates you....no ones knows how many points will be needed at this stage
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jan 18, 2020 19:59:36 GMT
Unlikely 44 probably go down 45 fifty/fifty 46 should stay up 47 very unlucky to go I now think we will get beyond 50 points I wasn't suggesting we would,but when someone says we need 50 points to stay up they are saying 49 relegates you....no ones knows how many points will be needed at this stage Think it's normally the average that keeps you up in this league was the point being made but obviously as you are saying each season is different. Just hope whatever it is needed we bloody get it.
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Post by felonious on Jan 18, 2020 20:00:49 GMT
Shouldn't mean they lose 5-0 though. They beat Leeds away last week, the loss of one man can't have had that much of an effect. Its a crazy crazy division. Impossible to predict any game with confidence, thats why its so competative. My lad's mate is a Blackburn supporter who was at the match today. He sent a text to my lad at Oneish confidently expecting a 4:0 defeat. As you say it's a crazy division
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Post by hogansgoals on Jan 18, 2020 20:24:11 GMT
Yep we'll finish bottom on 49. Blackburn went down on 52 a few years y
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Post by RF10 on Jan 18, 2020 20:27:48 GMT
Yep we'll finish bottom on 49. Blackburn went down on 52 a few years y Fair enough, but in general it will keep you up. It's like 40 points for Prem but West Ham went down once on 42 points.
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Post by thevoid on Jan 18, 2020 21:54:03 GMT
Derby could be deducted up to 21 points
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Post by likelyladgalizmo on Jan 18, 2020 21:59:25 GMT
Derby could be deducted up to 21 points Hopefully just to wipe that smug smile of Mel Morris's face.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 19, 2020 0:53:11 GMT
Don't build your hopes up. I've been told by someone with inside knowledge at Derby that there is no way they can be done as 1.they had prior approval from the league before the sale and 2.they got an 'independent' valuation of the ground before the sale saying it was worth what Morris paid and not what it was in the accounts as being worth.
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Post by stokiesteve on Jan 19, 2020 11:10:39 GMT
Worth mentioning WBA are actually on really quite shit form by their standards this season. The Stoke City charity wagon however is a different class of surrender monkey. H 🤣
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Post by stokiesteve on Jan 19, 2020 11:12:07 GMT
Tomorrow night is a free hit after the weekend results
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Post by chigstoke on Jan 19, 2020 11:16:00 GMT
Don't build your hopes up. I've been told by someone with inside knowledge at Derby that there is no way they can be done as 1.they had prior approval from the league before the sale and 2.they got an 'independent' valuation of the ground before the sale saying it was worth what Morris paid and not what it was in the accounts as being worth. Don't think that matters. The EFL concern previously was to approve the sale and make sure it went through. However they are now looking at the value and see that it was over valued and they will investigate this. independent valuation or not. Doesn’t matter if they approved it, they can still do them in.
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Post by wilcopotter on Jan 19, 2020 11:44:22 GMT
Tomorrow night is a free hit after the weekend results A win tomorrow would be massive, a bit of daylight between the bottom 3. Come on Stoke.
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Post by seabridgestokie on Jan 19, 2020 14:42:12 GMT
But what is the likely result of beating them. I know they are not on a good run but the reason they are top of the league is they have a better team than us.
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Post by Veritas on Jan 19, 2020 15:26:09 GMT
But what is the likely result of beating them. I know they are not on a good run but the reason they are top of the league is they have a better team than us. So were Swansea when we beat them.
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Post by stokeykez on Jan 19, 2020 16:10:48 GMT
But what is the likely result of beating them. I know they are not on a good run but the reason they are top of the league is they have a better team than us. So were Swansea when we beat them. We tend to do better against the teams that sit back and let us come at them, it's the toe to toe games we struggle to break down and open up. We have to convert any chance possible as usually like against fulham we have the lions share but cannot make up for the 1 shot and conversion they have had.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 19, 2020 22:23:23 GMT
Don't build your hopes up. I've been told by someone with inside knowledge at Derby that there is no way they can be done as 1.they had prior approval from the league before the sale and 2.they got an 'independent' valuation of the ground before the sale saying it was worth what Morris paid and not what it was in the accounts as being worth. Don't think that matters. The EFL concern previously was to approve the sale and make sure it went through. However they are now looking at the value and see that it was over valued and they will investigate this. independent valuation or not. Doesn’t matter if they approved it, they can still do them in. That's the point about the Independent valuation they got though. It's like you buy a house for £200,000 it's in your assets at that price. When you sell it an estate agent comes in and values it and its valuation could have doubled. That's what Derby did with their ground so according to my source there is no way they can be done for it.
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Post by LH_SCFC on Jan 20, 2020 12:15:17 GMT
Don't think that matters. The EFL concern previously was to approve the sale and make sure it went through. However they are now looking at the value and see that it was over valued and they will investigate this. independent valuation or not. Doesn’t matter if they approved it, they can still do them in. That's the point about the Independent valuation they got though. It's like you buy a house for £200,000 it's in your assets at that price. When you sell it an estate agent comes in and values it and its valuation could have doubled. That's what Derby did with their ground so according to my source there is no way they can be done for it. The EFL appear to be more concerned with Derby’s rather questionable amortisation policy as opposed to the stadium sale. This is going to be their real sticking point (hence the official club statement banging on about it so much).
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Post by neddy on Jan 20, 2020 12:16:32 GMT
If Brum sell this young kiddy they won’t have points deducted?
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Post by Veritas on Jan 20, 2020 12:57:35 GMT
That's the point about the Independent valuation they got though. It's like you buy a house for £200,000 it's in your assets at that price. When you sell it an estate agent comes in and values it and its valuation could have doubled. That's what Derby did with their ground so according to my source there is no way they can be done for it. The EFL appear to be more concerned with Derby’s rather questionable amortisation policy as opposed to the stadium sale. This is going to be their real sticking point (hence the official club statement banging on about it so much). The reason is that selling your ground even to a newly created company owned by your owner is within the letter if not the spirit of the current rules. I fully expect the loophole to be closed in the summer but until it is nothing can be done to stop it. Bet 365 could create a new subsidiary sell our ground to them to clear all our debts and it would be within current rules.
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Post by thebet365 on Jan 20, 2020 13:05:32 GMT
The EFL appear to be more concerned with Derby’s rather questionable amortisation policy as opposed to the stadium sale. This is going to be their real sticking point (hence the official club statement banging on about it so much). The reason is that selling your ground even to a newly created company owned by your owner is within the letter if not the spirit of the current rules. I fully expect the loophole to be closed in the summer but until it is nothing can be done to stop it. Bet 365 could create a new subsidiary sell our ground to them to clear all our debts and it would be within current rules. No they can't because the football club don't own the ground, it would have to be on the football clubs balance sheet to do that, it's on Stoke City Property Ltd balance sheet. I can't see them closing the loophole either as it's perfectly legal as long as it's sold at a true and fair value and reported in the financial year it's sold.
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Post by thebet365 on Jan 20, 2020 13:10:59 GMT
That's the point about the Independent valuation they got though. It's like you buy a house for £200,000 it's in your assets at that price. When you sell it an estate agent comes in and values it and its valuation could have doubled. That's what Derby did with their ground so according to my source there is no way they can be done for it. The EFL appear to be more concerned with Derby’s rather questionable amortisation policy as opposed to the stadium sale. This is going to be their real sticking point (hence the official club statement banging on about it so much). I didn't realise they'd messed about with Amortisation, Having now had a look around at other clubs Amortisation Derby's stands out as very low compared to everyone else, but their policy sounds reasonable so it must be breaking the EFL rules somewhere.
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Post by Veritas on Jan 20, 2020 13:29:58 GMT
The reason is that selling your ground even to a newly created company owned by your owner is within the letter if not the spirit of the current rules. I fully expect the loophole to be closed in the summer but until it is nothing can be done to stop it. Bet 365 could create a new subsidiary sell our ground to them to clear all our debts and it would be within current rules. No they can't because the football club don't own the ground, it would have to be on the football clubs balance sheet to do that, it's on Stoke City Property Ltd balance sheet. I can't see them closing the loophole either as it's perfectly legal as long as it's sold at a true and fair value and reported in the financial year it's sold. I didn't realise that about our ground so we couldn't do it but others could and have. FFP was in part designed to avoid the disasterous situations when clubs become financially over exposed like Leeds, Leicester, Coventry etc and you would hope to avoid clubs being threatened with eviction when they now don't own the ground and the relationship with the owner or his successors goes sour as with the Vale. I feel they do need to close down this option and quickly.
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Post by dutchstokie on Jan 20, 2020 13:38:55 GMT
Tomorrow night is a free hit after the weekend results I dont know why but the words 'swing' and 'miss' suddenly spring to mind...…. But for some sadistic reason I think we will win this one !!!!!!!!!
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Jan 20, 2020 14:05:13 GMT
Tomorrow night is a free hit after the weekend results I dont know why but the words 'swing' and 'miss' suddenly spring to mind...…. But for some sadistic reason I think we will win this one !!!!!!!!! As the famous saying goes... it’s the hope that kills you 😂
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Post by markby on Jan 21, 2020 6:54:41 GMT
The EFL appear to be more concerned with Derby’s rather questionable amortisation policy as opposed to the stadium sale. This is going to be their real sticking point (hence the official club statement banging on about it so much). I didn't realise they'd messed about with Amortisation, Having now had a look around at other clubs Amortisation Derby's stands out as very low compared to everyone else, but their policy sounds reasonable so it must be breaking the EFL rules somewhere. Today's Times is covering Derby's amortisation:
‘Unusual accounting’ may have cost Derby further £30 million
It means if a £10 million player signs a four-year contract, the club calculates a loss of £2.5 million a year. But Derby introduced a policy at the start of the three-year period in question that involved applying “residual values” with an amortisation rate, sources say, nearer 10 per cent.
If the EFL calculates Derby’s losses using the standard amortisation rate, it could potentially mean an even greater breach of its profit and sustainability rules.
Derby County may have incurred losses of as much as almost double the permitted £39 million for a three-year period after introducing an “unusual” accountancy policy for players.
Last week Derby were charged by the Football League with a breach of its rules that involves the valuation of their Pride Park Stadium. Derby responded on Friday night by declaring the EFL charges “unlawful”, with the matter likely to end in court. But The Times understands the club may have suffered a further £30 million in losses in the three seasons up to June 2018 because of an accounting policy said to be unique to the English game.
Most clubs have a policy which recognises a player is worth nothing at the end of their contract, so his value decreases in proportion to the length of time left on his deal.
If you look at all that has gone on at that club in recent years - the sacking of the CEO over suspicious contracts (inc a certain Mrs. Ince getting paid for 'scouting'!); the Keogh sacking (literally a 'car crash'!), the dodgy sale and lease back of the Astro(nomical) Dome; the contract for Rooney meaning the 'coaching' part of his role didn't come within FFP; and now this - it's clear that this club has been ducking and diving for years to try to keep afloat financially.
Sure, they'll have tried to make it look as though it all comes within the Rules, but this is only what has been made public - you can bet your last shilling that a whole lot more has gone on which has yet to emerge. And with Steve Gibson and others kicking up a stink, the EFL will have to send the auditors in to root it out.
I never had anything much against Derby in the past, but under Mel Morris they've become an utterly rancid club.
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Post by markby on Jan 21, 2020 7:01:14 GMT
No they can't because the football club don't own the ground, it would have to be on the football clubs balance sheet to do that, it's on Stoke City Property Ltd balance sheet. I can't see them closing the loophole either as it's perfectly legal as long as it's sold at a true and fair value and reported in the financial year it's sold. I didn't realise that about our ground so we couldn't do it but others could and have. FFP was in part designed to avoid the disasterous situations when clubs become financially over exposed like Leeds, Leicester, Coventry etc and you would hope to avoid clubs being threatened with eviction when they now don't own the ground and the relationship with the owner or his successors goes sour as with the Vale. I feel they do need to close down this option and quickly. Regarding the sale and lease back of Shame-Not-Pride Park, DCFC are relying on the fact that the EFL gave them permission to do so. The reason permission is required is to protect clubs from having their ground sold from under them by a dodgy owner to an equally dodgy buyer (property developer or the like), meaning the club could end up homeless.
i imagine that the EFL will have permitted this particular sale because it is effectively an internal transfer, an accounting transaction if you like, from one Mel Morris company to another.
But that is not the same as saying they gave permission at the same time for Morris to frigg the figures when doing so, especially when such financial sleight of hand is solely in order to get round FFP Rules.
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