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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 19:04:37 GMT
Why do plenty of the supporters shout " forward " keeping possession is more important surely or not ? Well yes it is BUT .....
When LMH took over he had to change our style. Keep the ball on the ground, keep possession etc. Well the change in style didn't work overnight and there was that incident when we saw LMH say to Whelan (I think it was) - "Try going that way", pointing up the pitch with his finger.
These things take time, and I appreciate that time isn't a commodity that we have a lot of.
I feel fairly confident that we will be ok.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 19:26:02 GMT
Why do plenty of the supporters shout " forward " keeping possession is more important surely or not ? Possession for possession sake is pointless. There was a moment yesterday Smith took a throw in just inside the Millwall half.Did he look for an attacker to throw it to ? No.He immediately turned back to our half,threw it to Batth,he passed back to Butland,he passed to Lindsay,he passed to Bruno,he hoofed it up the pitch and we lost possession.This happens time and again and has done since Hughes took over. What is the point ?
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Post by leicspotter on Jan 12, 2020 19:32:56 GMT
I don't agree with the booing of our layers when they try to keep possession, whilst many would argue it's because fans don't understand the game, my own view is that it is driven by nervousness. Fans are acutely aware of 2 things:
1. Our defence is prone to making errors, so when the defenders try to play 'keep ball' fans get nervy
2. Our parlous league position means that any slip ups could prove very costly
Whilst I don'r think our players are currently chock full of confidence it does appear that they have more belief than many of the supporters
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 12, 2020 19:39:45 GMT
Why do plenty of the supporters shout " forward " keeping possession is more important surely or not ? Possession for possession sake is pointless. There was a moment yesterday Smith took a throw in just inside the Millwall half.Did he look for an attacker to throw it to ? No.He immediately turned back to our half,threw it to Batth,he passed back to Butland,he passed to Lindsay,he passed to Bruno,he hoofed it up the pitch and we lost possession.This happens time and again and has done since Hughes took over. What is the point ? Keeping possession when winning is fine.If you have the ball your opponent can’t hurt you.You are reliant on runners when you have possession in forward areas,and when you can’t find one then the ball invariably goes backwards.Frustrating but sometimes necessary.
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Post by BuckRogers on Jan 12, 2020 19:44:58 GMT
Why do plenty of the supporters shout " forward " keeping possession is more important surely or not ? Possession for possession sake is pointless. There was a moment yesterday Smith took a throw in just inside the Millwall half.Did he look for an attacker to throw it to ? No.He immediately turned back to our half,threw it to Batth,he passed back to Butland,he passed to Lindsay,he passed to Bruno,he hoofed it up the pitch and we lost possession.This happens time and again and has done since Hughes took over. What is the point ? This does my head in , this passing around the back then eventually we hoof it. Why not hoof straight away 🙄 I know the main problem is no movement in front of them but it's still frustrating
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 19:46:25 GMT
Possession for possession sake is pointless. There was a moment yesterday Smith took a throw in just inside the Millwall half.Did he look for an attacker to throw it to ? No.He immediately turned back to our half,threw it to Batth,he passed back to Butland,he passed to Lindsay,he passed to Bruno,he hoofed it up the pitch and we lost possession.This happens time and again and has done since Hughes took over. What is the point ? Keeping possession when winning is fine.If you have the ball your opponent can’t hurt you.You are reliant on runners when you have possession in forward areas,and when you can’t find one then the ball invariably goes backwards.Frustrating but sometimes necessary. We weren't winning,we haven't been a winning team for years
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Post by sportsman on Jan 12, 2020 19:47:12 GMT
Why do plenty of the supporters shout " forward " keeping possession is more important surely or not ? Because they are football uneducated thickos
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 20:11:56 GMT
It's worth noting even O'Neill was getting pissed of with it,the uneducated thicko that he is
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Post by stokieoldboy on Jan 12, 2020 20:54:58 GMT
I look at this way, great teams keep possession,for long periods, scoring a goal with the end product,shit teams like ours, keep possession, then give the fcukg ball away, and we end up a goal down,wer'e just not good enough to keep pussy footing around like we do,we need more forward passing, like defence splitting passes,or balls over the top of the defence, but you need clever,inteligent,players to execute it, unfortunately stoke haven't fcukg got any of that type of player.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jan 12, 2020 20:58:40 GMT
It depends. Yesterday we had a 30 yard chasm between the two defensive midfielders and Nick Powell. There was no point whatsoever persisting with the tippy tappy stuff because we had no options beyond the edge of our own box beyond lumping it forward.
Better to have played a high tempo long ball game with none of the tippy tappy. I used to complain about halfway line ball, now we au edge of own area ball!
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 12, 2020 20:59:46 GMT
It is better to keep possession than give it away, but
1. We regularly pass b/s to only eventually lump the ball up the field, especially if it goes to Butland, when we might as well of launched it upfield straight away before the opposition defence is well prepared.
2. Some players like Allen look to pass forward before passing b/s, but others immediately pass b/f which is what I think infuriates MON.
3. The is a severe lack of competence and ability in the side, probably reinforced by a shortage of confidence. These mean: we are unable to pass forward accurately, there is a lack of movement, lack of speed/mobility, and lack of vision. I know it was windy yesterday but too many long forward passes were far too strong or innaccurate.
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Post by adi on Jan 12, 2020 21:02:30 GMT
Why do plenty of the supporters shout " forward " keeping possession is more important surely or not ? Possession for possession sake is pointless. There was a moment yesterday Smith took a throw in just inside the Millwall half.Did he look for an attacker to throw it to ? No.He immediately turned back to our half,threw it to Batth,he passed back to Butland,he passed to Lindsay,he passed to Bruno,he hoofed it up the pitch and we lost possession.This happens time and again and has done since Hughes took over. What is the point ? Agreed. If we are a goal or two up then fine. Or if it’s against much better opposition then okay but not when you’re the wrong end of the table and not winning. We even seem to do it when losing. Now I’m not asking for every ball to go forwards but when we have an attacking throw or free kick or corner let’s try to use it to get forward with a view to getting a shot off.
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Post by nonameface on Jan 12, 2020 21:28:49 GMT
Pressing the ball backwards and sideways is better than losing the ball.
Thing is, there are normally plenty of opportunities to play it forward if it's made early, but alot of the team take a touch or an extra touch and then the chance has gone. This is compounded by our lack of pace.
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Post by potterpaul on Jan 12, 2020 21:44:32 GMT
The slick and integrated movement and passes we make getting the ball back to Butland is a thing of beauty
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Post by BuzzB on Jan 12, 2020 22:37:12 GMT
What was it our Tone used to say? Why take 20 passes to do what you can do in one. Although Lindsay takes this literally!!
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 12, 2020 23:53:32 GMT
Keeping possession when winning is fine.If you have the ball your opponent can’t hurt you.You are reliant on runners when you have possession in forward areas,and when you can’t find one then the ball invariably goes backwards.Frustrating but sometimes necessary. We weren't winning,we haven't been a winning team for years I wasn’t particularly referring to yesterday however there were a few occasions when the crowd were baying when there simply wasn’t a forward pass.We were more direct in the second half and still could hardly muster a shot on target.
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Post by LankyPotter on Jan 13, 2020 0:18:23 GMT
It's worth noting even O'Neill was getting pissed of with it,the uneducated thicko that he is Yeah but its his job to impact the way we are playing, its our responsibility to encourage, not one person in the stands is good enough to be on that pitch or else they would be so wind it in.
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Post by thehoof on Jan 13, 2020 0:23:47 GMT
Why do plenty of the supporters shout " forward " keeping possession is more important surely or not ? Because they are football uneducated thickos Seriously? So when we are passing it around at the back ( where possession football starts), you are totally confident that 3 touch Batth, 3 touch BMI,2 touch Lindsay followed by the cultured punt into touch and 1 touch Smith ( the touch being the pass back to Butland), and invariably all 3 of the others pass it back to Butland who then hoofs it forward, we are uneducated? Get real- Stoke don’t have one single defender currently playing who is comfortable on the ball, with the exception of Powell none of the midfield have a trust worthy first touch, so you have to go back to basics - it is harder for the opposition to score when the ball is in their half than ours. If we had ball playing defenders and a midfield who can pass forward I would agree with you. With the Donkeys we have at the back, please keep the ball as far away from our penalty area as possible. Look at Man City and their performance at Norwich, where their inability to play properly from the back started them on their 16 points deficit to Liverpool- and everyone of their defenders is a better footballer than anyone in our defence.
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Post by colinroberts1 on Jan 13, 2020 8:04:19 GMT
Reasons not to pass the ball back to defence /keeper. 1.were shit at it! 2.it puts unnecessary pressure on an already shakey defence! 3.gives opposition time to get back into position! On Saturday Campbell pointed up the line to Smith to show him where he wanted the ball played,Campbell had space behind to run in, Smith passed back and motioned to Campbell to come closer to him. If you can put you're forward players through into space, shouldn't we be trying to? All xxxx Smith had to do was chip it into space! Manager didn't look happy at times with it!
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 13, 2020 9:01:37 GMT
Pressing the ball backwards and sideways is better than losing the ball. Thing is, there are normally plenty of opportunities to play it forward if it's made early, but alot of the team take a touch or an extra touch and then the chance has gone. This is compounded by our lack of pace. Better done in the opposition half than just in front of our box though. One misplaced pass or uncontrolled ball and the opposition are one v one on the gk where we pass sideways and back.
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Post by reddipotter on Jan 13, 2020 9:31:14 GMT
If we are going to play a long ball, which is what happened mostly on Saturday, it has to be played quickly, before the opposition have time to get ready, not after a series of sideways passes across the defence. Or else you try to play the ball through the pitch. Unfortunately, we have a truly dreadful back four who are incapable of making such tricky decisions.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 13, 2020 10:31:20 GMT
Our players keep the ball too long, because they don't know what to do with it. Take Baath, his forward hoofs either go out for a throw in or a goal kick. So all you you hear is, Baath back to Butland. That's why the likes of Baath have to be replaced with players who have a football brain.
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Post by vahl on Jan 13, 2020 11:03:47 GMT
Long ball is fantastic if you’re watching the Premier League highlights from from 2008.
Otherwise nah.
We will continue to hover around the relegation spots until we play football better, it’s ineffective.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jan 13, 2020 11:13:16 GMT
Long ball is fantastic if you’re watching the Premier League highlights from from 2008. Otherwise nah. We will continue to hover around the relegation spots until we play football better, it’s ineffective. Leicester still do it quite well. The trick is to do it quickly, nothing wrong with an early ball forward that gets the defence turned and gives the attacked a bit of space. We have to take 3 or 4 touches to control it first before we can contemplate the ball over the top or in behind.
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Post by AlliG on Jan 13, 2020 12:00:36 GMT
Long ball is fantastic if you’re watching the Premier League highlights from from 2008. Otherwise nah. We will continue to hover around the relegation spots until we play football better, it’s ineffective. Slow, predictable possession football can be just as ineffective. Good teams try to play 2 touch (control/pass) possession football to move the ball around the pitch to find space, gaps and opportunities to get players into positions where they can either create opportunities or pressure their opponents into losing concentration or leaving a bit too much space and create chances that way. Playing against good possession football wears teams out because the ball always travels faster than the player and that tiredness eventually causes lapses in concentration. Batth, Lindsay, Smith & BMI are so slow in possession and take so many touches before they move the ball on so slowly and deliberately that one player jogging across the pitch from right to left (or vice versa) could be used to pressure our possession, which means we don't create space, gaps or mistakes in the opposition coverage. A bit more off the ball movement wouldn't go amiss either. I am sure that the opposition managers must be delighted to see Batth & Lindsay having the majority of possession. (I wouldn't trust either of them to pass the ball 15 yards if their was an opponent within 10 yards of their target)
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Post by warringtonstokie on Jan 13, 2020 12:09:46 GMT
It’s irritating as fuck and obviously unsettles players who panic and twat it and lose the ball as a result. At least a dozen times on Saturday they were playing bounce passes to each other to unsettle the Millwall press and it got booed, get a grip.
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Post by stokecitydom on Jan 13, 2020 12:38:56 GMT
We need to find some middle ground with regards to our passing. At the moment we either hoof it forward aimlessly, or play slow & tedious possession around the defence & go back to the keeper.
On Saturday there were numerous occasions where Smith could’ve played a ball in behind their defence when Campbell had made a run, but he decided to constantly cut back and give it to Batth who proceeded to lump it forward.
At times we have to be brave, otherwise it’s just awful to watch.
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Post by eddyclamp on Jan 13, 2020 13:11:19 GMT
the gap between our back four and the midfield two of Clucas and Allen was too big on Saturday, leaving the back four (at times) with nowhere to go. Clucas was poor on Saturday
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Post by reddipotter on Jan 13, 2020 13:51:24 GMT
Long ball is fantastic if you’re watching the Premier League highlights from from 2008. Otherwise nah. We will continue to hover around the relegation spots until we play football better, it’s ineffective. Leicester still do it quite well. The trick is to do it quickly, nothing wrong with an early ball forward that gets the defence turned and gives the attacked a bit of space. We have to take 3 or 4 touches to control it first before we can contemplate the ball over the top or in behind. Liverpool use a fair bit of quick long ball, too.
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Post by bagnallboothen on Jan 13, 2020 14:27:49 GMT
Long ball is fantastic if you’re watching the Premier League highlights from from 2008. Otherwise nah. We will continue to hover around the relegation spots until we play football better, it’s ineffective. Leicester still do it quite well. The trick is to do it quickly, nothing wrong with an early ball forward that gets the defence turned and gives the attacked a bit of space. We have to take 3 or 4 touches to control it first before we can contemplate the ball over the top or in behind.
They also have a centre forward capable of moving slighly quicker than a tortoise.
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