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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 2, 2020 20:30:05 GMT
So what do you reckon Villa would be prepared to pay for him? I’ve no idea mate that’s up to them If Stoke sell for because of the upcoming FFP thing then it’ll be interesting to see what they’d accept as they have to claw some money back but in an ideal world he’s worth £15m + of anybody’s money given his age, English, length of contract and until recently in the international set up He’s a superb keeper who having a poor spell ...that’s all From next summer he'll be into his final year of his contract, he's been in terrible form for a long time now, we're currently in a very serious relegation battle and we're staring the spectre of FFP in the face. You can't just ignore all of that when it comes to his valuation. Furthermore, there's nobody in the Championship who would be prepared to pay his wages and could afford his fee. That leaves an incredibly small number of Premiership clubs who would even be remotely interested in him in the first place. Now of that select few, how many would currently want/need to take a gamble on a keeper horribly out of form? Erm, probably just one ... Aston Villa and they know that and they know that that will put them in a strong bargaining position and I'd be amazed if they offered more than £10 million, probably less. Whether we'd accept it or not is another matter but if he doesn't regain his form before entering the final year of his contract, then the fee that he can attract, certainly isn't going to increase is it?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 2, 2020 20:33:33 GMT
I’ve no idea mate that’s up to them If Stoke sell for because of the upcoming FFP thing then it’ll be interesting to see what they’d accept as they have to claw some money back but in an ideal world he’s worth £15m + of anybody’s money given his age, English, length of contract and until recently in the international set up He’s a superb keeper who having a poor spell ...that’s all From next summer he'll be into his final year of his contract, he's been in terrible form for a long time now, we're currently in a very serious relegation battle and we're staring the spectre of FFP in the face. You can't just ignore all of that when it comes to his valuation. Furthermore, there's nobody in the Championship who would be prepared to pay his wages and could afford his fee. That leaves an incredibly small number of Premiership clubs who would even be remotely interested in him in the first place. Now of that select few, how many would currently want/need to take a gamble on a keeper horribly out of form? Erm, probably just one ... Aston Villa and they know that and they know that that will put them in a strong bargaining position and I'd be amazed if they offered more than £10 million, probably less. Whether we'd accept it or not is another matter but if he doesn't regain his form before entering the final year of his contract, then the fee that he can attract, certainly isn't going to increase us it? Yeah - this was the argument in the summer. We could have got 100% of £10m - but ended up getting 0% of £15m by being unrealistic. Teams have got to a.) want a new keeper and b.) home in on Butland as te best way to spend their millions. With each month out of the spotlight, the list of suitors and fee dwindles. Right now, if we've got a possible buyer on the hook, I'd take £8m to secure the deal. If we could get £20m for Allen and Butland, we could think about a rebuild of sorts
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Post by werrington on Jan 2, 2020 20:34:49 GMT
I’ve no idea mate that’s up to them If Stoke sell for because of the upcoming FFP thing then it’ll be interesting to see what they’d accept as they have to claw some money back but in an ideal world he’s worth £15m + of anybody’s money given his age, English, length of contract and until recently in the international set up He’s a superb keeper who having a poor spell ...that’s all From next summer he'll be into his final year of his contract, he's been in terrible form for a long time now, we're currently in a very serious relegation battle and we're staring the spectre of FFP in the face. You can't just ignore all of that when it comes to his valuation. Furthermore, there's nobody in the Championship who would be prepared to pay his wages and could afford his fee. That leaves an incredibly small number of Premiership clubs who would even be remotely interested in him in the first place. Now of that select few, how many would currently want/need to take a gamble on a keeper horribly out of form? Erm, probably just one ... Aston Villa and they know that and they know that that will put them in a strong bargaining position and I'd be amazed if they offered more than £10 million, probably less. Whether we'd accept it or not is another matter but if he doesn't regain his form before entering the final year of his contract, then the fee that he can attract, certainly isn't going to increase is it? Are you talking about him being worth only 7m because he’s ( apparently ) wank now or because of FFP? That’s my point
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 2, 2020 20:40:06 GMT
From next summer he'll be into his final year of his contract, he's been in terrible form for a long time now, we're currently in a very serious relegation battle and we're staring the spectre of FFP in the face. You can't just ignore all of that when it comes to his valuation. Furthermore, there's nobody in the Championship who would be prepared to pay his wages and could afford his fee. That leaves an incredibly small number of Premiership clubs who would even be remotely interested in him in the first place. Now of that select few, how many would currently want/need to take a gamble on a keeper horribly out of form? Erm, probably just one ... Aston Villa and they know that and they know that that will put them in a strong bargaining position and I'd be amazed if they offered more than £10 million, probably less. Whether we'd accept it or not is another matter but if he doesn't regain his form before entering the final year of his contract, then the fee that he can attract, certainly isn't going to increase is it? Are you talking about him being worth only 7m because he’s ( apparently ) wank now or because of FFP? That’s my point He's only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for him. (For all the reasons that I've explained) I can't see anybody (well Aston Villa actually) being prepared to pay more than £7-£9 million for him. Hence why I asked the question, would we accept £7 million (the low end)? There's not a chance that they'll be offering £10+ million.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 2, 2020 20:42:18 GMT
Are you talking about him being worth only 7m because he’s ( apparently ) wank now or because of FFP? That’s my point He's only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for him. (For all the reasons that I've explained) I can't see anybody (well Aston Villa actually) being prepared to pay more than £7-£9 million for him. Hence why I asked the question, would we accept £7 million (the low end)? There's not a chance that they'll be offering £10+ million. Then unless we’re really in the shit we shouldn’t be selling him for me
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 2, 2020 20:43:13 GMT
He's only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for him. (For all the reasons that I've explained) I can't see anybody (well Aston Villa actually) being prepared to pay more than £7-£9 million for him. Hence why I asked the question, would we accept £7 million (the low end)? There's not a chance that they'll be offering £10+ million. Then unless we’re really in the shit we shouldn’t be selling him for me Why, out of interest mate? He'll be desperate to go. I really can't see based on his form this season that we'd be enormously worse off?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 2, 2020 20:44:22 GMT
He's only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for him. (For all the reasons that I've explained) I can't see anybody (well Aston Villa actually) being prepared to pay more than £7-£9 million for him. Hence why I asked the question, would we accept £7 million (the low end)? There's not a chance that they'll be offering £10+ million. Then unless we’re really in the shit we shouldn’t be selling him for me But he's not an above-average Cship keeper at the moment is he, CP? (as good as he was previously) He's been out of form for a hell of a long time now Is he offering us more than a season worth of Federici? And he'll be worth buttons come the summer, with the prospect of him seeing his contract out and leaving on a Bosman?
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Post by werrington on Jan 2, 2020 20:45:33 GMT
He's only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for him. (For all the reasons that I've explained) I can't see anybody (well Aston Villa actually) being prepared to pay more than £7-£9 million for him. Hence why I asked the question, would we accept £7 million (the low end)? There's not a chance that they'll be offering £10+ million. Then unless we’re really in the shit we shouldn’t be selling him for me We’ve got too mutts as FFP dictates it
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 2, 2020 20:47:04 GMT
Then unless we’re really in the shit we shouldn’t be selling him for me Why, out of interest mate? He'll be desperate to go. I really can't see based on his form this season that we'd be enormously worse off? I actually think he’ll come good again mate that’s why despite the poor season he’s had so far
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Post by werrington on Jan 2, 2020 20:49:38 GMT
Then unless we’re really in the shit we shouldn’t be selling him for me But he's not an above-average Cship keeper at the moment is he, CP? (as good as he was previously) He's been out of form for a hell of a long time now Is he offering us more than a season worth of Federici? And he'll be worth buttons come the summer, with the prospect of him seeing his contract out and leaving on a Bosman? So is De Gea just an average premiership goalkeeper FM if that’s the criteria for a valuation? I’ll repeat what I said to Paul in that if it’s a FFP deal then yeah he might go for a below par price as clubs will be like hyenas picking at our flesh knowing we have to get players off the wage bill but that doesn’t detract from his real value
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 2, 2020 20:54:39 GMT
But he's not an above-average Cship keeper at the moment is he, CP? (as good as he was previously) He's been out of form for a hell of a long time now Is he offering us more than a season worth of Federici? And he'll be worth buttons come the summer, with the prospect of him seeing his contract out and leaving on a Bosman? So is De Gea just an average premiership goalkeeper FM if that’s the criteria for a valuation? I’ll repeat what I said to Paul in that if it’s a FFP deal then yeah he might go for a below par price as clubs will be like hyenas picking at our flesh knowing we have to get players off the wage bill but that doesn’t detract from his real value I think FFP AND form come into it, Wez. It doesn't really matter what weight you put on either factor as they both impact on his value hugely - as does his contract situation. In the end, the gun is against our head and we're going to have to accept something lowish if we sell at this point. I take your point on De Gea. But he hit greater heights for a lot longer than Butland did.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 2, 2020 20:55:17 GMT
Why, out of interest mate? He'll be desperate to go. I really can't see based on his form this season that we'd be enormously worse off? I actually think he’ll come good again mate that’s why despite the poor season he’s had so far When though mate? Just in time for his contract to run out and him go for nothing at the end of next season? Or before then?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jan 2, 2020 20:56:37 GMT
I actually think he’ll come good again mate that’s why despite the poor season he’s had so far When though mate? Just in time for his contract to run out and him go for nothing at the end of next season? Or before then? Who knows Rob but it will happen mark my words😄
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 2, 2020 20:56:44 GMT
But he's not an above-average Cship keeper at the moment is he, CP? (as good as he was previously) He's been out of form for a hell of a long time now Is he offering us more than a season worth of Federici? And he'll be worth buttons come the summer, with the prospect of him seeing his contract out and leaving on a Bosman? So is De Gea just an average premiership goalkeeper FM if that’s the criteria for a valuation? I’ll repeat what I said to Paul in that if it’s a FFP deal then yeah he might go for a below par price as clubs will be like hyenas picking at our flesh knowing we have to get players off the wage bill but that doesn’t detract from his real value You said yourself though Wez, he's worth whatever someone will pay for him. That cuts both ways. No club in their right mind is going to give us more than £10m for him, irrespective of FFP. Why on earth would they?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 20:57:31 GMT
Villa will obviously low ball it in the hope we meet in the middle. They'll point to his form and the contract situation as well as trying to take advantage of the FFP situation.
I haven't got a clue as to which way Big To will swing.
What do you do in our situation? Accept any old shit and chalk it off the debt or hold out for a big fee happy to let him walk for even less in the summer?
There's also the impact it will have on our relegation battle.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 21:00:42 GMT
Villa will obviously low ball it in the hope we meet in the middle. They'll point to his form and the contract situation as well as trying to take advantage of the FFP situation. I haven't got a clue as to which way Big To will swing. What do you do in our situation? Accept any old shit and chalk it off the debt or hold out for a big fee happy to let him walk for even less in the summer? There's also the impact it will have on our relegation battle. We could loan him with a view to selling him in the summer. If he did well at Villa on the big stage there’d be a number of clubs interested. All options have their plusses and minuses I guess.....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 21:03:12 GMT
Villa will obviously low ball it in the hope we meet in the middle. They'll point to his form and the contract situation as well as trying to take advantage of the FFP situation. I haven't got a clue as to which way Big To will swing. What do you do in our situation? Accept any old shit and chalk it off the debt or hold out for a big fee happy to let him walk for even less in the summer? There's also the impact it will have on our relegation battle. We could loan him with a view to selling him in the summer. If he did well at Villa on the big stage there’d be a number of clubs interested. All options have their plusses and minuses I guess..... Would we gain that much with people knowing he'd be out of contract at the end of that season? Good Premier League clubs would happily take him as backup on a free and you'd think they'd let Butlands representatives know as much way in advance!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 21:06:04 GMT
We could loan him with a view to selling him in the summer. If he did well at Villa on the big stage there’d be a number of clubs interested. All options have their plusses and minuses I guess..... Would we gain that much with people knowing he'd be out of contract at the end of that season? Good Premier League clubs would happily take him as backup on a free and you'd think they'd let Butlands representatives know as much way in advance! I think if he shone at Villa on loan we’d get a better price, but ultimately his big money days have passed. They can take Hogan back as part of the deal. I still think he’ll do well at his next club and he’s still young for a keeper.....
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 2, 2020 21:07:21 GMT
On the form of the last 18months hes worth about 5-8 million I'll edge towards the 5 mark
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 2, 2020 21:16:45 GMT
But he's not an above-average Cship keeper at the moment is he, CP? (as good as he was previously) He's been out of form for a hell of a long time now Is he offering us more than a season worth of Federici? And he'll be worth buttons come the summer, with the prospect of him seeing his contract out and leaving on a Bosman? So is De Gea just an average premiership goalkeeper FM if that’s the criteria for a valuation? I’ll repeat what I said to Paul in that if it’s a FFP deal then yeah he might go for a below par price as clubs will be like hyenas picking at our flesh knowing we have to get players off the wage bill but that doesn’t detract from his real value His REAL value is based on what somebody is prepared to pay for him, NOW. If we were currently in the top four, looking like we have every chance of getting promoted and Jack was in brilliant form and still part of the England set-up with four years left on his contract, then he'd probably be worth £30 million. Now if all of the things above were true but he only had 18 months left on his contract, then straight away, you're looking at £20 million but then you realise, we're currently not in the top four looking likely to be promoted but we're actually in the bottom four in a relegation battle and Jack isn't in the form of his life but has been in shocking form for a considerable length of time and we've got FFP issues and there's probably only one club who'd even be remotely interested in him. When you take into account ALL of those factors together, then you arrive at what roughly will be his real, current, value.
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Post by lordb on Jan 2, 2020 21:19:36 GMT
Would need solid interest from more than one Premier League club to get his price up.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Jan 2, 2020 21:29:25 GMT
Would Jack really want to sign a long contract at villa, theres a good chance they could be back in the championship come May, persoally i think Jack would prefer an offer to be back up keeper at a safe premier club then fight for the number 1 shirt rather than risk another relegation tied to a long contract.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jan 2, 2020 21:34:52 GMT
Why, out of interest mate? He'll be desperate to go. I really can't see based on his form this season that we'd be enormously worse off? I actually think he’ll come good again mate that’s why despite the poor season he’s had so far He's only ever had one really good season imho during which I personally think he punched above his weight. Nowadays he's got too many flaws in his game to ever come really good. Plus like many a keeper from Jim Leighton to Joe Hart - once mistakes creep into their game there's always a clanger hanging on their shoulder for every next cross.
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Post by brumstokie on Jan 2, 2020 21:41:02 GMT
On the form of the last 18months hes worth about 5-8 million I'll edge towards the 5 mark We wouldn’t accept such a low bid - particularly as Birmingham get 20% of any profit?
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Post by adamsson on Jan 2, 2020 22:14:50 GMT
Would Jack really want to sign a long contract at villa, theres a good chance they could be back in the championship come May, persoally i think Jack would prefer an offer to be back up keeper at a safe premier club then fight for the number 1 shirt rather than risk another relegation tied to a long contract. True he could stay and have a good chance of league 1
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 2, 2020 22:15:59 GMT
On the form of the last 18months hes worth about 5-8 million I'll edge towards the 5 mark We wouldn’t accept such a low bid - particularly as Birmingham get 20% of any profit? Then he leaves for nothing it's a fine line money or nothing.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 3, 2020 9:16:58 GMT
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jan 3, 2020 10:04:16 GMT
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Post by bolders on Jan 3, 2020 10:06:52 GMT
£7.5m rising to £10m if they stay up and a 20-25% sell on fee, plus they have to recall Hogan at no fee to us :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 10:23:42 GMT
It'll be a loan,you watch
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