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Post by Northy on Jan 14, 2020 17:20:18 GMT
Let them have a referendum, funded by the SNP If they vote leave: - Faslane Submarine base moves to Plymouth, cancel the new destroyers being built in Glasgow and give to Southampton or Portsmouth, and any new builds in Rosyth as well. RAF and Army units move south of the border All scots working in England have to apply for work permits ? There must be a million of them down here bleating on about how good Scotland is and singing about fighting the English Astute fleets boats could move to Plymouth, but the trident boats are too big and can only get into Guzz on the spring tides. A lot of civvies in Helensborough who worked at Faslane when I was there were pro independence- go figure as the yanks say. During the 2014 referendum possible homes mentioned for the Trident boats included Milford Haven and Falmouth. A Scottish Navy would likely resemble the Rebublic Of Ireland’s small GRP coastal patrol ships. Looks like EU would have a big bill protecting Scotland from Russian incursion. I think it would be entirely fair to move warship building south of the border too. When I was at Faslane early 90's the CND peace camp outside the gate were sponsored by Dunbartonshire council !
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 14, 2020 19:14:21 GMT
They should have one. Brexit has changed the game in Scotland completely. Do you live in Scotland ?, you don't live in Stoke but seem to know everything about it, the Scots. should have another referendum not that wee Jimmy really wants one, as long as they fund it then fine crack on, no more funding from the rest of the UK though that has to be stipulated from day one, no more Barnett formula let them stand on their own two feet. It would be interesting to see if the EU would accept them in as a non contributing country, pretty sure they have enough of them already
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Post by Dutchpeter on Jan 14, 2020 19:38:43 GMT
They should have one. Brexit has changed the game in Scotland completely. Do you live in Scotland ?, you don't live in Stoke but seem to know everything about it, the Scots. should have another referendum not that wee Jimmy really wants one, as long as they fund it then fine crack on, no more funding from the rest of the UK though that has to be stipulated from day one, no more Barnett formula let them stand on their own two feet. It would be interesting to see if the EU would accept them in as a non contributing country, pretty sure they have enough of them already A big Question is, would the EU welcome Scotland and possibly encourage other break away regions in Europe?
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Post by franklin66 on Jan 14, 2020 21:45:39 GMT
Do you live in Scotland ?, you don't live in Stoke but seem to know everything about it, the Scots. should have another referendum not that wee Jimmy really wants one, as long as they fund it then fine crack on, no more funding from the rest of the UK though that has to be stipulated from day one, no more Barnett formula let them stand on their own two feet. It would be interesting to see if the EU would accept them in as a non contributing country, pretty sure they have enough of them already A big Question is, would the EU welcome Scotland and possibly encourage other break away regions in Europe? They would have to adopt the euro for starters which I cant see them wanting to do. Plus they would need a boarder which again they would not want. I'm spiteful I would asset strip the fuck out of them prior starting now. I'd move everything south and tell them to get fucked and crack on 😁 then watch them shit it.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 14, 2020 22:11:32 GMT
Do you live in Scotland ?, you don't live in Stoke but seem to know everything about it, the Scots. should have another referendum not that wee Jimmy really wants one, as long as they fund it then fine crack on, no more funding from the rest of the UK though that has to be stipulated from day one, no more Barnett formula let them stand on their own two feet. It would be interesting to see if the EU would accept them in as a non contributing country, pretty sure they have enough of them already A big Question is, would the EU welcome Scotland and possibly encourage other break away regions in Europe? If they do it has massive implications for spain
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Post by felonious on Jan 15, 2020 7:04:31 GMT
Do you live in Scotland ?, you don't live in Stoke but seem to know everything about it, the Scots. should have another referendum not that wee Jimmy really wants one, as long as they fund it then fine crack on, no more funding from the rest of the UK though that has to be stipulated from day one, no more Barnett formula let them stand on their own two feet. It would be interesting to see if the EU would accept them in as a non contributing country, pretty sure they have enough of them already A big Question is, would the EU welcome Scotland and possibly encourage other break away regions in Europe? There's no chance of Scotland being accepted into the EU. This was made evident in the referendum build up by the Conservatives, Labour and the Libdems and no doubt influenced the vote to stay in the Union as evidenced by the later massive pro remain vote in the Brexit referendum.
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 15, 2020 7:56:47 GMT
A big Question is, would the EU welcome Scotland and possibly encourage other break away regions in Europe? There's no chance of Scotland being accepted into the EU. This was made evident in the referendum build up by the Conservatives, Labour and the Libdems and no doubt influenced the vote to stay in the Union as evidenced by the later massive pro remain vote in the Brexit referendum. I wouldn’t say there is no chance - but it ain’t a certainty. What we do know is there is no categoric position which, you would think, should be awkward for the SNP. Even more so when you consider that they are unable to answer any questions on further membership like when would it happen, what would membership look like (for example does that mean using the Euro), what does it mean to the trading relationship with England, what happens between independence and joins the EU. This for me is one of the problems facing the SNP - they can’t answer hard questions about independence. Like for example on currency which caused them so many problems last time. This is why they are continuously pushing the grievance agenda. They seem to have abandoned rationale argument for emotional attacks hoping that heart will rule head among the Scottish people.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 14, 2020 11:47:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2020 12:21:31 GMT
they could enter Eurovision
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Oct 14, 2020 12:26:15 GMT
It will happen
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Post by thevoid on Oct 14, 2020 12:43:42 GMT
As long as Shetland get their referendum.
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 14, 2020 12:48:57 GMT
Not a chance when it boils down to it a referendum will require a labour government in London which is a least four years away at the earliest And personally I think that if they finally get a referendum people will vote with there pockets over there heart Scotland’s only hope keeping there current standard of living would to be a member of the Eu and the Eu can play mischief with messages of support But there is no way I can see Spain or Belgium allowing Scotland in as this would aggravate the Catalonia / Wallonia and Flanders situation
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 14, 2020 13:08:24 GMT
Not a chance when it boils down to it a referendum will require a labour government in London which is a least four years away at the earliest And personally I think that if they finally get a referendum people will vote with there pockets over there heart Scotland’s only hope keeping there current standard of living would to be a member of the Eu and the Eu can play mischief with messages of support But there is no way I can see Spain or Belgium allowing Scotland in as this would aggravate the Catalonia / Wallonia and Flanders situation I agree there doesn't have to be a referendum legally but if polling were to continue at those levels there would probably need to be one however there is likely to be a full on SNP civil war breaking out soon as the fall out from the Salmond case comes to the fore so that may impact the polls. As for a vote I think like brexit now the Yes voters don't see it as an economic issue, should it come to independence the EU have shown the way though first its the divorce bill, then the Withdrawal agreement then we think about a trade deal etc etc
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Oct 14, 2020 14:56:35 GMT
Not a chance when it boils down to it a referendum will require a labour government in London which is a least four years away at the earliest And personally I think that if they finally get a referendum people will vote with there pockets over there heart Scotland’s only hope keeping there current standard of living would to be a member of the Eu and the Eu can play mischief with messages of support But there is no way I can see Spain or Belgium allowing Scotland in as this would aggravate the Catalonia / Wallonia and Flanders situation Let the indigenous people have their way, it's going to happen anyway
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Oct 14, 2020 14:58:13 GMT
As long as Shetland get their referendum. Dead right, what the majority want.
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 14, 2020 15:23:44 GMT
I’ve always found it ironic that the party set up to achieve UK independence would also provide vital stimulus to destroy the UK. Because, there is no doubt that Brexit is the catalyst for the surge in Independence we are seeing in Scotland. Btw, I’m pretty sure now Scotland will be independent before this decade is out.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 14, 2020 19:26:52 GMT
I’ve always found it ironic that the party set up to achieve UK independence would also provide vital stimulus to destroy the UK. Because, there is no doubt that Brexit is the catalyst for the surge in Independence we are seeing in Scotland. Btw, I’m pretty sure now Scotland will be independent before this decade is out. I agree with what you are saying Partick, Independence does seem much more likely, except to say that by time a referendum is granted and organised the political climate could change again in these unpredictable times. It seems to me that the pressure to force a referendum will be increasingly hard to resist , the alternative being that the SNP could organise their own ( illegal?) referendum, claiming to have popular support. I think that Brexit is a catalyst/ reason/ excuse, but I wonder if the ever increasing movement towards devolution makes Independence almost inevitable, .... if in reality rather than formally.....a sort of equivalent to soft Brexit in reverse( if you see what I mean)
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 14, 2020 19:43:44 GMT
I’ve always found it ironic that the party set up to achieve UK independence would also provide vital stimulus to destroy the UK. Because, there is no doubt that Brexit is the catalyst for the surge in Independence we are seeing in Scotland. Btw, I’m pretty sure now Scotland will be independent before this decade is out. I agree with what you are saying Partick, Independence does seem much more likely, except to say that by time a referendum is granted and organised the political climate could change again in these unpredictable times. It seems to me that the pressure to force a referendum will be increasingly hard to resist , the alternative being that the SNP could organise their own ( illegal?) referendum, claiming to have popular support. I think that Brexit is a catalyst/ reason/ excuse, but I wonder if the ever increasing movement towards devolution makes Independence almost inevitable, .... if in reality rather than formally.....a sort of equivalent to soft Brexit in reverse( if you see what I mean) The key is next summer. If the SNP win a majority in the Holyrood elections next year a referendum must follow soon. To deny it will just delay it and make a “remain in the UK” vote even more likely if not inevitable. As it is I’d say there’s a likely 50/50 chance for the vote as things stand today. That’s the best options for the Union I’m afraid.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 26, 2021 10:14:48 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 26, 2021 10:23:33 GMT
Nobody likes football officials
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 26, 2021 10:24:42 GMT
Oh… and by way of a catch up, the polls have reverted back against independence. It seems Sturgeon got something of a Covid bounce last year which hasn’t been sustained.
The SNP still massively lead in the polls for voting intentions, but, this is looking more of an endorsement for Sturgeon than an overwhelming desire for independence. It seems a bit contradictory, but many folk up here (including my 2 kids) would vote SNP but not for independence.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 26, 2021 10:49:44 GMT
Oh… and by way of a catch up, the polls have reverted back against independence. It seems Sturgeon got something of a Covid bounce last year which hasn’t been sustained. The SNP still massively lead in the polls for voting intentions, but, this is looking more of an endorsement for Sturgeon than an overwhelming desire for independence. It seems a bit contradictory, but many folk up here (including my 2 kids) would vote SNP but not for independence. In the same way that Farage would have been quite happy for Brexit to drag on for another 10 years as it kept him in work, I think it will suit Sturgeon to simply talk about Independence for another 4/5 years and make all the right noises to detract from their poor record on certain issues domestically. Only when the next batch of SNP MP's take over will we see a burning desire for a another referendum............
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 26, 2021 12:37:56 GMT
Oh… and by way of a catch up, the polls have reverted back against independence. It seems Sturgeon got something of a Covid bounce last year which hasn’t been sustained. The SNP still massively lead in the polls for voting intentions, but, this is looking more of an endorsement for Sturgeon than an overwhelming desire for independence. It seems a bit contradictory, but many folk up here (including my 2 kids) would vote SNP but not for independence. In the same way that Farage would have been quite happy for Brexit to drag on for another 10 years as it kept him in work, I think it will suit Sturgeon to simply talk about Independence for another 4/5 years and make all the right noises to detract from their poor record on certain issues domestically. Only when the next batch of SNP MP's take over will we see a burning desire for a another referendum............ That is the charge Alex Salmond and his motley crew in the Alba Party are levelling at Sturgeon. In fairness to Sturgeon, she is acutely aware that, as things stand, another independence referendum would most likely result in another defeat (for the Independents) and would be an end to any prospect of a future referendum for a very long time. It’s not just that the polls are against them but that they still have no meaningful answer on currency and that Brexit has added a new problem (border control) into the mix. That said, her treading water approach leads to political paralysis in Scotland where she (and her party) spend too much time playing to her Indie lobby by generating grievances with Westminster and not enough on doing what’s best for Scotland. The litany of problems in Scotland is quite shocking. She gets away with this because the opposition in Scotland has been, and continues to be, incredibly feeble. The political picture in Scotland just now is a mess.
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 7, 2021 18:11:06 GMT
Good news in Scotland today… we top the league in the UK for booze related deaths… Scotland has highest alcohol death rate in UK. Rates in Scotland jumped from 18.6 deaths per 100,000 to 21.5, comfortably ahead of England who come in at a miserly 13. This follows Scotland’s stunning performance on drug deaths where Scotland continues to have Europe’s highest per capita rate of drug deaths, at 25.2 fatalities per 100,000 people, more than three-and-a-half times higher than the rest of the UK. Oh flower of Scotland… etc etc
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Post by thevoid on Dec 7, 2021 19:18:34 GMT
Good news in Scotland today… we top the league in the UK for booze related deaths… Scotland has highest alcohol death rate in UK. Rates in Scotland jumped from 18.6 deaths per 100,000 to 21.5, comfortably ahead of England who come in at a miserly 13. This follows Scotland’s stunning performance on drug deaths where Scotland continues to have Europe’s highest per capita rate of drug deaths, at 25.2 fatalities per 100,000 people, more than three-and-a-half times higher than the rest of the UK. Oh flower of Scotland… etc etc Maybe they should replace the thistle with the poppy... Next time they whip themselves up over the English they should remember where Buckfast comes from 😉
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Post by salopstick on Dec 7, 2021 20:38:17 GMT
Good news in Scotland today… we top the league in the UK for booze related deaths… Scotland has highest alcohol death rate in UK. Rates in Scotland jumped from 18.6 deaths per 100,000 to 21.5, comfortably ahead of England who come in at a miserly 13. This follows Scotland’s stunning performance on drug deaths where Scotland continues to have Europe’s highest per capita rate of drug deaths, at 25.2 fatalities per 100,000 people, more than three-and-a-half times higher than the rest of the UK. Oh flower of Scotland… etc etc Maybe extra tax on booze will stop that Oh hang on
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 26, 2021 8:47:49 GMT
Anger as Ministers approve plans for controversial Judy Murray Park of Keir projectThe SNP are masters at timing “bad” news. With so much attention on new Coronavirus rules, one news story was missed by a bunch of news outlets. Basically, a local planning decision denying permission to build a tennis centre and a bunch of very expensive, exclusive houses on green belt land has been overruled by the Scottish Government. Because they know best. The fact that there are plenty of brownfield sites that could be used for a National Tennis Centre in more appropriate locations is by the by. And the fact that there was overwhelming objection from the local community to this development is also irrelevant. Big names and big business is clearly what matters in Scotland. Or maybe, the right big names is more accurate (being a supporter of independence seems to open all manner of doors). Anyway, a peculiar manifestation of Sturgeon’s fairer, more equal society. This is a staggering decision by the SNP… and not the first. Donald Trump was a previous beneficiary of SNP benevolence “trumping” local opinion. Anyway, I wonder what protests we might see. Both on the ground and in Parliament. The Scottish Greens oppose this decision so, in theory, if that party has any balls (which is highly questionable) the SNP would lose a vote in parliament on this (as they need Scottish Green votes for a majority). It will be interesting to see where this goes.
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 11, 2022 8:07:36 GMT
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Post by noustie on Jan 11, 2022 9:57:40 GMT
For me they’re grifting – if their main objective was Independence they wouldn’t have been so visceral in their approach to Alba. Salmond and Sturgeon obviously have beef but if the SNP’s primary focus is independence a party who could hoover up list votes should be hugely attractive as could have produced a Super Majority. Instead ‘Both Votes SNP’ showed up where their priorities lie as voting SNP in the list, given how it works, is a complete waste of time except in a couple of sections where the Tories and Labour actually take seats on the main ballot. I reckon they’ll nudge it again for the WM elections and then the wheels will fall off before the next SG election – there’s a lot of pissed off voters with Hobson’s Choice who may investigate other methods of transportation or just decide to postpone departure. The other angle to this is SNP when the lost last time had Sturgeon waiting in the wings so Salmond could take all the flak then step aside – the SNP haven’t gone anyone in the wings anywhere near that calibre. Hamza Yusaf is struggling to beat a nursery in the Ferry for fuck sake let alone taking on the baton for independence. For the rights and wrongs of it if I was a strategist for the Union side all I would do is ask NS to define what a women would be in an Independent Scotland.
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 11, 2022 10:24:37 GMT
For me they’re grifting – if their main objective was Independence they wouldn’t have been so visceral in their approach to Alba. Salmond and Sturgeon obviously have beef but if the SNP’s primary focus is independence a party who could hoover up list votes should be hugely attractive as could have produced a Super Majority. Instead ‘Both Votes SNP’ showed up where their priorities lie as voting SNP in the list, given how it works, is a complete waste of time except in a couple of sections where the Tories and Labour actually take seats on the main ballot. I reckon they’ll nudge it again for the WM elections and then the wheels will fall off before the next SG election – there’s a lot of pissed off voters with Hobson’s Choice who may investigate other methods of transportation or just decide to postpone departure. The other angle to this is SNP when the lost last time had Sturgeon waiting in the wings so Salmond could take all the flak then step aside – the SNP haven’t gone anyone in the wings anywhere near that calibre. Hamza Yusaf is struggling to beat a nursery in the Ferry for fuck sake let alone taking on the baton for independence. For the rights and wrongs of it if I was a strategist for the Union side all I would do is ask NS to define what a women would be in an Independent Scotland. www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-snp-s-desperate-bid-to-save-sterlingisationThis is still the most difficult problem to solve, like Brexit people ultimately may decide its not an economic argument but unlike Brexit this would have a significant impact on anyone with a loan, mortgage or pension because the companies that provide these will have no interest in taking on the currency risk associated with payment or receipt of these in the new scottish currency so would continue to pay / ask for payments in GBP.
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