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Post by Goonie on Dec 15, 2019 11:00:09 GMT
Yesterday was one of the worst games of football I’ve watched. Why not be negative? MON has done ok but 4 years of dross takes its toll and no one should be positive for the sake of it. Yesterday was a must win game and we were utter bollocks. There wasn’t one positive. The players deserve the disappointment from the crowd, MON should get cut a little slack till after the window at least - 30 games would make a fair assessment period
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 11:00:49 GMT
I think we are going backwards under O’Neill. No sign of him motivating the players But plenty of signs that you're still a troll
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Post by fca47 on Dec 15, 2019 11:00:53 GMT
I have been a bit negative about him, especially the Badou and Etebo situation, but he does seem to have stabilised the defence, though a bit too early to judge properly. But he can't be blamed for the lack of creativity in the side, that has been an issue for the last three years at least. This squad has proved itself to be full of a lot of expensive under achievers, we have to give him the þransfed window at least before we condemn him.
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Post by Goonie on Dec 15, 2019 11:00:56 GMT
MON is a better manager than Jones but I simply don’t see that he is good enough to get what he needs from this group of shite hawks Hopefully quite a few ins and outs may resolve some of this issue
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 15, 2019 11:02:10 GMT
Yesterday was one of the worst games of football I’ve watched. Why not be negative? MON has done ok but 4 years of dross takes its toll and no one should be positive for the sake of it. Yesterday was a must win game and we were utter bollocks. There wasn’t one positive. The players deserve the disappointment from the crowd, MON should get cut a little slack till after the window at least - 30 games would make a fair assessment period Oh definitely. There are some worrying things there though but there have been som positive things too. Yesterday’s game is on him for me though.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 15, 2019 11:03:12 GMT
Yesterday was one of the worst games of football I’ve watched. Why not be negative? MON has done ok but 4 years of dross takes its toll and no one should be positive for the sake of it. Yesterday was a must win game and we were utter bollocks. There wasn’t one positive. The players deserve the disappointment from the crowd, MON should get cut a little slack till after the window at least - 30 games would make a fair assessment period Hang on, sorry if we’d crushed them yesterday he’d be hailed as a hero, why should he be immune from scrutiny when he ballses things up?
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Post by Goonie on Dec 15, 2019 11:07:12 GMT
The players deserve the disappointment from the crowd, MON should get cut a little slack till after the window at least - 30 games would make a fair assessment period Hang on, sorry if we’d crushed them yesterday he’d be hailed as a hero, why should he be immune from scrutiny when he ballses things up? I think he's just playing with the hand he's been dealt I'm just withholding judgement until he's had a window plus a good run at it He should be criticised for his game management yesterday but I'm not to add to the negative vibe we've all been exposed to for 3 seasons of mediocrity (on a good day!) You're very much entit6to criticise him old chap
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Post by Goonie on Dec 15, 2019 11:07:25 GMT
The players deserve the disappointment from the crowd, MON should get cut a little slack till after the window at least - 30 games would make a fair assessment period Hang on, sorry if we’d crushed them yesterday he’d be hailed as a hero, why should he be immune from scrutiny when he ballses things up? I think he's just playing with the hand he's been dealt I'm just withholding judgement until he's had a window plus a good run at it He should be criticised for his game management yesterday but I'm not to add to the negative vibe we've all been exposed to for 3 seasons of mediocrity (on a good day!) You're very much entitled to criticise him old chap
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Post by stokemark on Dec 15, 2019 11:07:48 GMT
The players deserve the disappointment from the crowd, MON should get cut a little slack till after the window at least - 30 games would make a fair assessment period Hang on, sorry if we’d crushed them yesterday he’d be hailed as a hero, why should he be immune from scrutiny when he ballses things up? I agree He made one of the most ridiculous substitutions in the last 3 shite seasons by brining on Hogan for Vokes And he also has no excuse for not selecting Gregory to at least have him as a semi-sensible option from the bench given he has nailed his colours to this formation. Remarkably poor decision making
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 15, 2019 11:10:44 GMT
Hang on, sorry if we’d crushed them yesterday he’d be hailed as a hero, why should he be immune from scrutiny when he ballses things up? I think he's just playing with the hand he's been dealt I'm just withholding judgement until he's had a window plus a good run at it He should be criticised for his game management yesterday but I'm not to add to the negative vibe we've all been exposed to for 3 seasons of mediocrity (on a good day!) You're very much entitled to criticise him old chap I don’t get this ‘withholding judgement’ stuff. There’s no need to make a definitive call on the manager one way or the other as a whole but I don’t get this weird moratorium on saying so when we gets things wrong. The team/system he’s picking isn’t going to get us the wins we need to get us where we need to be, just as it didn’t for Rowett when he used it. The subs he made yesterday made things worse.
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Post by Goonie on Dec 15, 2019 11:14:44 GMT
I think he's just playing with the hand he's been dealt I'm just withholding judgement until he's had a window plus a good run at it He should be criticised for his game management yesterday but I'm not to add to the negative vibe we've all been exposed to for 3 seasons of mediocrity (on a good day!) You're very much entitled to criticise him old chap I don’t get this ‘withholding judgement’ stuff. There’s no need to make a definitive call on the manager one way or the other as a whole but I don’t get this weird moratorium on saying so when we gets things wrong. The team/system he’s picking isn’t going to get us the wins we need to get us where we need to be, just as it didn’t for Rowett when he used it. The subs he made yesterday made things worse. Agreed mate. Other than the bare faced facts all else is assumption and the subs and overall performance were admittedly dire I've just been so bitterly disappointed for so long I'm refusing to get into it again though and trying to be positive or neutral at least to preserve my own mental health 😁
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Post by potterpaul on Dec 15, 2019 11:36:22 GMT
Hang on, sorry if we’d crushed them yesterday he’d be hailed as a hero, why should he be immune from scrutiny when he ballses things up? I think he's just playing with the hand he's been dealt I'm just withholding judgement until he's had a window plus a good run at it He should be criticised for his game management yesterday but I'm not to add to the negative vibe we've all been exposed to for 3 seasons of mediocrity (on a good day!) You're very much entitled to criticise him old chap You seem to be pinning all your hopes on the next window. A mistake basically everyone made last time round. Unless of course our recruitment team can turn around a diabolical record over the last few seasons and actually spot a football player. You also need to take in the following 1)Its the January window very little movement takes place. Stoke usually make 2 signing at best. 2)Its already been made clear we have a bulging squad so trimming it down is our agenda, which is going to be hard taking point one into account
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 15, 2019 11:39:26 GMT
Benign games come back after the 4 games starting Boxing Day Jones took 6 points from Wednesday , Fulham , Millwall and Swansea fancy O’Neil won’t get within 50% of that , he’s Hopelessly out of his depth and the Eyebo Badou saga shows cowardice. Moronic. You cannot take a selection of 4 games from a span of over 30 and state that if O’Neill doesn’t win those, he is awful. Take pretty much any other 4 games in a row and see how Jones stacks up. I’m happy to judge O’Neil over 30 and as I’ve aids since day one it will be catastrophic by then
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 11:39:50 GMT
The players deserve the disappointment from the crowd, MON should get cut a little slack till after the window at least - 30 games would make a fair assessment period Hang on, sorry if we’d crushed them yesterday he’d be hailed as a hero, why should he be immune from scrutiny when he ballses things up? Not true. After each win thus far there has been a number of people who have moaned about him for one reason or another!
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 15, 2019 11:40:42 GMT
Jones last 4 games got 6 points from Swansea , Fulham , Millwall and Sheffield Wednesday let’s see how O’Neil does for the 4 games starting Boxing Day , personally I think he’ll get less than three , he’s taking us backwards . Ah yes, the old, well tried, and trusted cherry picking routine to make statistics fit the argument. Ah the well trusted avoidance tactic let’s see how he does and then from a judgment I’ve give me view and o stand by it over 4 10 30 or 48 games he’s out of his depth
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 15, 2019 11:43:45 GMT
Hang on, sorry if we’d crushed them yesterday he’d be hailed as a hero, why should he be immune from scrutiny when he ballses things up? Not true. After each win thus far there has been a number of people who have moaned about him for one reason or another! You'll pretty much always get that though won't you? He'd get, rightly, praise from the overwhelming majority.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 11:52:03 GMT
Moronic. You cannot take a selection of 4 games from a span of over 30 and state that if O’Neill doesn’t win those, he is awful. Take pretty much any other 4 games in a row and see how Jones stacks up. I’m happy to judge O’Neil over 30 and as I’ve aids since day one it will be catastrophic by then You really shoud proof read what you write before pressing send
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Post by Goonie on Dec 15, 2019 12:12:46 GMT
I think he's just playing with the hand he's been dealt I'm just withholding judgement until he's had a window plus a good run at it He should be criticised for his game management yesterday but I'm not to add to the negative vibe we've all been exposed to for 3 seasons of mediocrity (on a good day!) You're very much entitled to criticise him old chap You seem to be pinning all your hopes on the next window. A mistake basically everyone made last time round. Unless of course our recruitment team can turn around a diabolical record over the last few seasons and actually spot a football player. You also need to take in the following 1)Its the January window very little movement takes place. Stoke usually make 2 signing at best. 2)Its already been made clear we have a bulging squad so trimming it down is our agenda, which is going to be hard taking point one into account Ah. Can you see it? It's my last hope flying out the window. It's the red pill. I should've taken the blue pill and stayed blissfully asleep. Thank you for waking me up to this nightmare Potterpaul. Divion 1 here we come followed by crushing points and financial penalties, another relegation and losing to Vale and Crewe oh the humanity Why did you wake me! 😫🧐😁
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Post by potterpaul on Dec 15, 2019 12:37:24 GMT
You seem to be pinning all your hopes on the next window. A mistake basically everyone made last time round. Unless of course our recruitment team can turn around a diabolical record over the last few seasons and actually spot a football player. You also need to take in the following 1)Its the January window very little movement takes place. Stoke usually make 2 signing at best. 2)Its already been made clear we have a bulging squad so trimming it down is our agenda, which is going to be hard taking point one into account Ah. Can you see it? It's my last hope flying out the window. It's the red pill. I should've taken the blue pill and stayed blissfully asleep. Thank you for waking me up to this nightmare Potterpaul. Divion 1 here we come followed by crushing points and financial penalties, another relegation and losing to Vale and Crewe oh the humanity Why did you wake me! 😫🧐😁 I'm sorry mate, if it's any consolation there's still enough time to find just 3 teams worse than us and there are a few candidates on paper, but as I write that I cruelly remind myself of the lousy 3 points we were short in our last relegation campaign.
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Post by Goonie on Dec 15, 2019 12:47:03 GMT
Ah. Can you see it? It's my last hope flying out the window. It's the red pill. I should've taken the blue pill and stayed blissfully asleep. Thank you for waking me up to this nightmare Potterpaul. Divion 1 here we come followed by crushing points and financial penalties, another relegation and losing to Vale and Crewe oh the humanity Why did you wake me! 😫🧐😁 I'm sorry mate, if it's any consolation there's still enough time to find just 3 teams worse than us and there are a few candidates on paper, but as I write that I cruelly remind myself of the lousy 3 points we were short in our last relegation campaign. It is all rather bleak! If I only held Jones's delusional belief system!
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Post by somersetstokie on Dec 15, 2019 13:22:10 GMT
I assume that there arn't any Stoke highlights compilation videos available this year.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 13:38:13 GMT
We need 32 points from this little lot to be sure of safety:
10 wins + 2 draws 9 Wins + 5 draws 8 Wins + 8 draws
DEC Middlesbrough A Sheffield Wednesday H Fulham A
JAN Huddersfield Town A Millwall H West Bromwich Albion A Swansea City H Derby County A
FEB Charlton Athletic H Preston North End H Queens Park Rangers A Cardiff City H Blackburn Rovers A Luton Town A
MAR Hull City H Reading A Middlesbrough H Wigan Athletic A
APR Barnsley H Leeds United A Birmingham City H Bristol City A Brentford H
MAY Nottingham Forest A
24 games - 32 points required at 1.3 ppg Our current hit rate is 0.82 ppg which would see us hit a final total of 38 points.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 15, 2019 14:50:19 GMT
Beg to differ he’s taking us backwards which seemed unthinkable , he’s ignoring the best players , i personally find not a single cell of optimism in his press conferences , selection , tactics or game management right now I’d say hell b3 lucky to get more than 36 points You are right in that in some ways we have gone backwards - the fact that you and others find this "unthinkable" just illustrates the ridiculous blind faith in sacking the manager as the surefire solution to all our ills. If a club is basically ok and has fairly simple problems to resolve a new manager can make an immediate impact - like Mourinho at Spurs. If a club has long term and deep seated problems - like us - it's going to take a long time to fix - especially if it means rewriting the tactics and structure of the team mid season which is what O'Neil is having to do because we had a dysfunctional team and a dodgy game plan when he arrived. Effectively 5 or 6 of O'Neil's games so far were pre-season games - in effect we are a couple of games into the season and finding out feet with a new formation and core 11 while the rest of the league are half way through the season and up and running with settled teams and settled tactics. We have gone backwards - the football is stuttering and pretty turgid but there are definite signs of improvement - we're making fewer stupid errors and we look a lot more solid defensively. So in answer to the OP - the negativity is largely down to the fact that most posters on here still don't get that sacking the manager isn't the route to instant success and when, yet again, a manager fails to make magic happen it's once more the managers fault. It's the same thought process behind blaming the next goat for the crops failing having just slaughtered it's predecessor. Understood but that doesn’t change me view long term . Short term medium term he’s out of his depth equally I’ve never said the manager was the core issue for 5 years I’ve said it’s the chief executive and because of that we’ve picked a succession of poorly qualified managers
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 16:27:06 GMT
Shit squad, with absolutely shit strikers'. Been coming for a while this. Any numpty with a nose on their face could see it!
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Post by hogansgoals on Dec 15, 2019 16:57:41 GMT
MON is a better manager than Jones but I simply don’t see that he is good enough to get what he needs from this group of shite hawks well it's now four different groups of shite hawks
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Post by Miles Offside on Dec 15, 2019 19:41:56 GMT
Hardly surprising everyone is so negative. Yesterday's game was devoid of any quality or entertainment.
I'm positive that, if we played a proper formation, rather than that brain-dead 4-5------1, then the fans would be more positive.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 22:11:21 GMT
Not true. After each win thus far there has been a number of people who have moaned about him for one reason or another! You'll pretty much always get that though won't you? He'd get, rightly, praise from the overwhelming majority. I mean, he doesn’t get praise from the overwhelming majority on here. Stoke fans are used to losing now and just happy to lash out, even when we win, a good many still are saying it’s a fluke, a gift, Jones could have done it, and all the rest of the bullshit.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 15, 2019 22:16:30 GMT
You'll pretty much always get that though won't you? He'd get, rightly, praise from the overwhelming majority. I mean, he doesn’t get praise from the overwhelming majority on here. Stoke fans are used to losing now and just happy to lash out, even when we win, a good many still are saying it’s a fluke, a gift, Jones could have done it, and all the rest of the bullshit. Who is saying that? Name names? I don't think it's a matter of lashing out, the manager has already done some questionable things as well as some good ones and on a messageboard both sides will be talked about.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 22:19:57 GMT
I mean, he doesn’t get praise from the overwhelming majority on here. Stoke fans are used to losing now and just happy to lash out, even when we win, a good many still are saying it’s a fluke, a gift, Jones could have done it, and all the rest of the bullshit. Who is saying that? Name names? I don't think it's a matter of lashing out, the manager has already done some questionable things as well as some good ones and on a messageboard both sides will be talked about. I mean, it is quite easy to look through this thread, the Indi thread, the MON thread about his appointment thread, and see plenty of knives drawn. It’s also often the case in all of the team selection threads, with ONeill out ringing through, which is just pathetic.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 15, 2019 22:39:59 GMT
Who is saying that? Name names? I don't think it's a matter of lashing out, the manager has already done some questionable things as well as some good ones and on a messageboard both sides will be talked about. I mean, it is quite easy to look through this thread, the Indi thread, the MON thread about his appointment thread, and see plenty of knives drawn. It’s also often the case in all of the team selection threads, with ONeill out ringing through, which is just pathetic. So it's actually any criticism of the manager that you've got issue with, rather than him not getting credit when we win (which he largely does)?
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