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Post by bathstoke on Dec 13, 2019 19:23:30 GMT
I don’t believe 100% these labour canvassers who said there was nothing wrong with the policies and it was Corbin or Brexit Why are you so obsessed. R U trying to justify your decisions... What is it to you...
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Dec 13, 2019 19:34:08 GMT
'The left' are currently all over Twitter with #NotMyPM, #NotMyGovernment, #LittleEngland & #RejoinEU... How many more defeats is it going to take before it sinks in?! Will they march to overturn this result? Said at the time it was a dangerous precedent. Mard arses.
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Post by M on Dec 13, 2019 19:36:37 GMT
Nandy resigned from the shadow cabinet in 2016. She can get fucked for a start off. I literally can't stand her, but Phillips would rattle cages. She'd be fierce at PMQs. She is a twat though. Politically she's moderate and one of the original chicken coup lot who have undermined so much that the party has achieved but can we compromise for the greater good? Who's left on the list if you take the usual liberal elite London MPs out of contention? Could Lewis do it? Good speaker, principled by accepting losing the whip but would entrenched Brexiteers hold it against him post Brexit for voting against it because he was from a remain constituency? He is an ex squaddie which ticks the nationalist buttons so many fall over for? It's awful, but we've got to find someone who has broadest appeal to the working class core areas and I think someone like Philips would get that 🤕
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 13, 2019 19:38:25 GMT
I wouldn't say that Johnson has made retaining them a 'priority', he has thanked those specific voters for 'lending' him their vote, he's not so stupid as to not realise that once Brexit is done, traditional allegiances will ultimately remerge. But Johnson now has a huge majority and those sort of majorities aren't usually overturned at the first time of asking, it could easily take two goes. But if the Labour Party continue with Corbynism, then I think they'll be hard pushed to make any inroads at all, even if Johnson's government makes life very difficult over the next five years, for those voters who switched this time in the Labour heartlands. They got carried away in their latest manifesto and it showed. But you say Corbynism, for many it’s just democratic socialist policies that are successful across the water in the likes of Scandinavia and Germany. The policies in 2017 were relatively popular as you said, the landscape could be very different in a few years time. Voting for a centrist Labour Party or a One Nation Tory Party just feels the same to me...... Ian Lavery has had his majority absolutely shredded from over 10,000, down to just 700. He clearly backed leave, indeed he said he would lead the leave campaign if there was a second referendum but yet he came close to losing his seat (it went to a recount). If a Labour candidate who is so clearly firmly behind leave, is getting pumelled to such an extent, then there's something about the current Labour party that doesn't sit right with the electorate. I just don't think that the Labour party can get back into power without a shift away from the far left. I think describing the policies of Blair and Brown as being neoliberal, is over simplyfying things and possibly a little unfair. A couple of great (imho) articles from Glen O'Hara here: blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/ed-miliband-new-labour/www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/20/new-labour-neoliberal-left-tony-blairI have a lot of respect and sympathy for your position but I just don't think the electorate will go for it and I really want to see the Labour party in power.
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Post by desman2 on Dec 13, 2019 19:38:40 GMT
Will they march to overturn this result? Said at the time it was a dangerous precedent. Mard arses. Theyre so pathetic
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Post by thevoid on Dec 13, 2019 19:40:27 GMT
Will they march to overturn this result? Said at the time it was a dangerous precedent. Mard arses. Haters gonna hate
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 13, 2019 19:42:00 GMT
I think Salops continued reference to a failed labour party is due to him feeling let down by them more than anything else. I get the impression that in his heart he's a labour voter but due to various (and documented) reasons has felt obligated to vote against them, for which he feels bitter and resentful. Sort of but as a soldier the Conservative party is often your home but my dad would turn in his grave. I believe in opposition a government is only as good as the opposition. But I despite the name I believe an opposition is there to take governments to task not just to oppose everything for the sake of it. Labour should now make a new manifesto now. Release it. Say this is what we want in 5 years time. Keep hammering the message home. Tweak it every so often as times change but give the voters 5 years of policy statement and intent. Not just a unicorn fag packet of bribes in 4 years and 9 months. Thought the Forces swore allegiance to the Queen, not the Tory’s. How longs it been since you held the gun...
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 13, 2019 20:24:59 GMT
Nandy resigned from the shadow cabinet in 2016. She can get fucked for a start off. I literally can't stand her, but Phillips would rattle cages. She'd be fierce at PMQs. She is a twat though. Politically she's moderate and one of the original chicken coup lot who have undermined so much that the party has achieved but can we compromise for the greater good? Who's left on the list if you take the usual liberal elite London MPs out of contention? Could Lewis do it? Good speaker, principled by accepting losing the whip but would entrenched Brexiteers hold it against him post Brexit for voting against it because he was from a remain constituency? He is an ex squaddie which ticks the nationalist buttons so many fall over for? It's awful, but we've got to find someone who has broadest appeal to the working class core areas and I think someone like Philips would get that 🤕 Dianne Abbott next Labour leader anyone ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 23:32:39 GMT
Good OP.
I'm from a Conservative family and area, and Conservative policies tend to favour me in my position. I'm probably a right leaning Liberal if that even exists.
However I'm 100% pro EU, remaining, and also for making sure those with more, pay more for any society we are in.
This election was bigger than Brexit, whilst still being Brexit focused. Under no circumstances could i vote for Tories promoting a hard exit. Labour just went so far to the left though that i couldn't back them either for their sole policy of a new referendum.
My vote slip was blank, as nobody was worthy of my support.
Fuck them all. Fuck me too coz leaving EU will fuck me over.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 14, 2019 6:35:12 GMT
I think the left are using Brexit as an excuse. They weren't blaming Brexit at the last election when Labour made all those gains. What has changed now, is that the electorate are far more aware of who Corbyn IS and they don't like him - he was toxic on the doorstep this time around. Momentum is destroying the Labour party from within, there's no point in having an ideology, if that's all it ever remains - you have to be IN power to make a difference. No matter what the Labour party do now, it's going to be virtually impossible to turn over such a big majority within 5 years, it's going to take at least 10, maybe even more. Jon Lansman and his ilk have set back the Labour party back 10 - 20 years and now the party needs to shift back towards the centre if it's going to have any chance of being relevant in the future. Been saying this for the last couple of years. Far left parties will never win a majority in this country, ever, so they either have to be pragmatic and move to the centre or they'll just end up as a protest party shouting from the sidelines. I've always voted Labour but I couldn't vote for anyone this or last time. We've got to hope Boris does what he did when he was London Mayor and be a people's PM rather than too right wing. I have a feeling that's the way he'll go and a lot of the Labour voters who voted for him will be satisfied in 4 years time.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 14, 2019 8:05:00 GMT
I think the left are using Brexit as an excuse. They weren't blaming Brexit at the last election when Labour made all those gains. What has changed now, is that the electorate are far more aware of who Corbyn IS and they don't like him - he was toxic on the doorstep this time around. Momentum is destroying the Labour party from within, there's no point in having an ideology, if that's all it ever remains - you have to be IN power to make a difference. No matter what the Labour party do now, it's going to be virtually impossible to turn over such a big majority within 5 years, it's going to take at least 10, maybe even more. Jon Lansman and his ilk have set back the Labour party back 10 - 20 years and now the party needs to shift back towards the centre if it's going to have any chance of being relevant in the future. Been saying this for the last couple of years. Far left parties will never win a majority in this country, ever, so they either have to be pragmatic and move to the centre or they'll just end up as a protest party shouting from the sidelines. I've always voted Labour but I couldn't vote for anyone this or last time. We've got to hope Boris does what he did when he was London Mayor and be a people's PM rather than too right wing. I have a feeling that's the way he'll go and a lot of the Labour voters who voted for him will be satisfied in 4 years time. Mmmm, a bit of positivity. Is that allowed on here? 😜
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 14, 2019 8:14:27 GMT
I think the left are using Brexit as an excuse. They weren't blaming Brexit at the last election when Labour made all those gains. What has changed now, is that the electorate are far more aware of who Corbyn IS and they don't like him - he was toxic on the doorstep this time around. Momentum is destroying the Labour party from within, there's no point in having an ideology, if that's all it ever remains - you have to be IN power to make a difference. No matter what the Labour party do now, it's going to be virtually impossible to turn over such a big majority within 5 years, it's going to take at least 10, maybe even more. Jon Lansman and his ilk have set back the Labour party back 10 - 20 years and now the party needs to shift back towards the centre if it's going to have any chance of being relevant in the future. We've got to hope Boris does what he did when he was London Mayor and be a people's PM rather than too right wing. I have a feeling that's the way he'll go and a lot of the Labour voters who voted for him will be satisfied in 4 years time. That would take quite a dose of humility from Boris. Does he do humility...
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 14, 2019 8:21:11 GMT
I think the left are using Brexit as an excuse. They weren't blaming Brexit at the last election when Labour made all those gains. What has changed now, is that the electorate are far more aware of who Corbyn IS and they don't like him - he was toxic on the doorstep this time around. Momentum is destroying the Labour party from within, there's no point in having an ideology, if that's all it ever remains - you have to be IN power to make a difference. No matter what the Labour party do now, it's going to be virtually impossible to turn over such a big majority within 5 years, it's going to take at least 10, maybe even more. Jon Lansman and his ilk have set back the Labour party back 10 - 20 years and now the party needs to shift back towards the centre if it's going to have any chance of being relevant in the future. Been saying this for the last couple of years. Far left parties will never win a majority in this country, ever, so they either have to be pragmatic and move to the centre or they'll just end up as a protest party shouting from the sidelines. I've always voted Labour but I couldn't vote for anyone this or last time. We've got to hope Boris does what he did when he was London Mayor and be a people's PM rather than too right wing. I have a feeling that's the way he'll go and a lot of the Labour voters who voted for him will be satisfied in 4 years time. That was the message from his speech yesterday. He is looking to grab that fabled middle ground. The same ground Tony Blair pitched his tent on. He was someone who knew how to win elections. That middle ground looks likely to be uncontested. Labour, it would seem from early signs, are busy convincing themselves that their humiliation was down to Brexit and unfair media coverage of Corbyn; their policies and approach are fine. The hold momentum has over the party means that view will be uncontested. That will please the cabal that now run that party, as well as the Tories.
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 14, 2019 8:21:43 GMT
We've got to hope Boris does what he did when he was London Mayor and be a people's PM rather than too right wing. I have a feeling that's the way he'll go and a lot of the Labour voters who voted for him will be satisfied in 4 years time. That would take quite a dose of humility from Boris. Does he do humility... The next few years will tell.
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Post by zerps on Dec 14, 2019 8:59:02 GMT
Will they march to overturn this result? Said at the time it was a dangerous precedent. Mard arses. What a pisser. The left are a national embarrassment.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 14, 2019 12:38:12 GMT
I'm not sure that the Labour party are now capable of listening and making the type of changes required to reform as a party that could actually be worthy of power , a power to be exerted on behalf of the good citizens of our country... which is the majority....the average jo or Josephine who doesn't really want to get involved in politics but wants to trust politicians, trust them that they are doing their best to produce a fair and just society. There are now too many in the Labour party that are ideologically driven without taking into account where people are starting from..... they are not particularly interested in the ideology. Too many of that ilk to be part of any change, not capable of it..,I think that after the ' period of reflection" they will conclude that their policies and approach was correct, we just need the Tories to make a balls up and people to change how they think.
For me they would have been better to 1 stop simply attacking Boris, in a personality contest Boris would win....in terms of enthusiasm and "character" 2 IF and only IF they believe it to be an issue, argue for Electoral Reform. That is the one thing that would re engage the working class ( not necessarily Labour) and reduce the chances of the Tories having unregulated unmitigated power.... difficult for Labour to comprehend this because they have visions of themselves winning a landslide to form the socialist utopia.....it has not dawned upon them that this is not going to happen. 3 Abolish the House of Lords....this is not ideologically driven, just common sense in the modern world. An easy target in terms of a symbol of the class system if ever there was one and a money saver... perhaps Labour are a bit too hypocritical to contemplate this because it could be a nice little earner for their own. Much easier target than " Abolish the monarchy" ...some working class people like the queen 4 Don't keep on about the NHS in terms of the Tories are going to privatise it/ we'll throw money at it... instead promise to set up an independent , as far as possible, non Political body to oversee it. 5 Use the overseas aid budget to commit to taking the rough sleepers off the streets within a lifetime of the government....a caring target that people can understand. 6 They should have clearly supported Brexit
Personally I don't think that those who currently control Labour are capable of real change.
The terms left and right are now becoming meaningless, particularly if some are describing Boris as Far right... simply hysterical
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Post by starkiller on Dec 14, 2019 12:38:44 GMT
They may not consider BJ as their PM, but, in many ways, they are partly responsible for his election. The Labour Party, abandoning its working class roots almost completely, to focus on this demographic, and the London virtue-signallers. Many seeing them as more concerned with how many genders there are, and interest in every other demographic on the planet, except the needs of white working class British people. Also, making a promise to honour a referendum and then telling the biggest voting group ever that they must do it again, also doesn't help. Anyone with experience in the real world , rather than social media, could see that they were losing their heartland vote. Yet they persisted because they were sitting in London bistros, getting their sense of the public mood from Twitter. Now that the traditional vote is willing to go elsewhere, I struggle to see how Labour can get them back, especially with the names touted for the next leader. Momentum, by focussing largely on the woke vote, have brought Labour to a halt.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 15, 2019 3:00:02 GMT
This is not a parody account.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 15, 2019 3:18:31 GMT
This is not a parody account.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 15, 2019 8:37:01 GMT
We've got to hope Boris does what he did when he was London Mayor and be a people's PM rather than too right wing. I have a feeling that's the way he'll go and a lot of the Labour voters who voted for him will be satisfied in 4 years time. That would take quite a dose of humility from Boris. Does he do humility... Boris does humility if it allows him to win And one thing Boris does is make a habit of winning in labour areas London mayor twice in a Labour City A EU referendum mostly in Labour areas The election And I shall not list the labour seats that turned blue one there are to many and second you may find it upsetting Boris can be discribed as many things mostly they have a level of truth But there is one thing Boris has that is invaluable in a politician and that is a winning habit
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 15, 2019 8:56:07 GMT
That would take quite a dose of humility from Boris. Does he do humility... Boris does humility if it allows him to win And one thing Boris does is make a habit of winning in labour areas London mayor twice in a Labour City A EU referendum mostly in Labour areas The election And I shall not list the labour seats that turned blue one there are to many and second you may find it upsetting Boris can be discribed as many things mostly they have a level of truth But there is one thing Boris has that is invaluable in a politician and that is a winning habit It’s funny you should say that Wag, cause I was pondering the same lastnight(Sometimes I sits & thinks, sometimes I just sits!) Anyway, I thought that Bonzo is such narcissist he could possibly take the accolade of one nation Tory to heart & reinvent himself as some sort of messianic figure. & before any lying bastard says they saw all this before they voted for him(same as they saw the fallout of N Ireland before Brexit)B%!!%#&$Xx
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Post by Gods on Dec 15, 2019 8:56:23 GMT
Was the Labour manifesto too detailed? Everything from reimburse waspi women caught the wrong side of the pension age change to 60 million free routers from a soon to be publicly owned BT.
I bet it was impossible to know where to start on the door step and it all sounded prohibitively expensive.
The Tories conversely just had get Brexit done and a number in the high thousands on new policemen and nurses. Safer and healthier was the message from that.
What do they say, keep it simple, stupid!
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Post by franklin66 on Dec 15, 2019 9:08:13 GMT
It's quite simple really labour are not the party for the working class they are for the posh kids who go to uni. They have embarrassed their voters by making out they are racist,thick,homophobic and intolerant. Telling the working class Derek can get his knob out in the wife's changing room at the local baths because he says he's Doreen will not wash.
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 15, 2019 9:21:10 GMT
Telling the working class Derek can get his knob out in the wife's changing room at the local baths because he says he's Doreen will not wash. If you’re going to do reactionary, get it right. That was the Libdems.
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Post by zerps on Dec 15, 2019 9:23:28 GMT
Labour are completely finished. Well done jezzer 😆
Common sense went out of the window in favour of wetting the bed.
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Post by serpico on Dec 15, 2019 9:36:33 GMT
Leftism is dead.
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Post by franklin66 on Dec 15, 2019 9:36:52 GMT
Telling the working class Derek can get his knob out in the wife's changing room at the local baths because he says he's Doreen will not wash. If you’re going to do reactionary, get it right. That was the Libdems. AND Labour Bath its undeniable too many political correct bullies who vilified the core supporters.
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Post by serpico on Dec 15, 2019 9:38:09 GMT
Telling the working class Derek can get his knob out in the wife's changing room at the local baths because he says he's Doreen will not wash. If you’re going to do reactionary, get it right. That was the Libdems. Corbyn dabbled though, he did an interview in which he actually said “my preferred pronouns are he/him”
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Dec 15, 2019 9:48:02 GMT
This is not a parody account. Are you talking about your Oatcake account, or those two Twitter accounts you posted? I'm unsure.....
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 15, 2019 10:27:01 GMT
Was the Labour manifesto too detailed? Everything from reimburse waspi women caught the wrong side of the pension age change to 60 million free routers from a soon to be publicly owned BT. I bet it was impossible to know where to start on the door step and it all sounded prohibitively expensive. The Tories conversely just had get Brexit done and a number in the high thousands on new policemen and nurses. Safer and healthier was the message from that. What do they say, keep it simple, stupid! Even if it was half as long it would still be unbelievable. The WASPI women £58 billion came after the manifesto was published and 'costed' so automatically making it uncosted. Free broadband to all even those that can afford it. Free school meals are already free for those who can't afford. Everyone gets a 4 day week and £10 an hour for flipping burgers. The 'extra' from earners over 80k produces about 80 billion the promises were 120 billion. The list goes on and on. Nevermind mass Nationalisation.
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