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Post by bathstoke on Apr 4, 2020 17:02:09 GMT
Top rant sheiky.... a load of old bollocks but top rant all the same !!! đđđ The Oatcake's foremost rantboy Duchy is a rentboy!?! Whoâd a thunk it... is he high or low rent...
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Post by dutchstokie on Apr 4, 2020 17:16:44 GMT
The Oatcake's foremost rantboy Duchy is a rentboy!?! Whoâd a thunk it... is he high or low rent... Apparently so ...đ first I knew about it.... and just for the record its high rent !đđ This together with being a âright wing cum swallowerâ itâs starting to add up đ And I thought I was the one posting vile messages sheiky. You fuckin mug !!!đđ
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2020 17:52:57 GMT
I think that class battle is just as bad as it was then to be honest. I'm not sure Corbyn was the one misreading Brexit really, it was mostly Starmer really! But I get what you mean. That said, if Starmer was to 'read the electorate' he'd be putting forward some things that are very much at odds with helping the working classes, the reason for labour's existence. The problem is more how you persuade the electorate that your policies are the best thing for them to believe in. Lil, there is always a battle for justice and fairness. In the UK in particular this has cemented in a class battle. In one sense I agree, it is a constant battle that each age and generation has to fight( as is the battle for democracy, which goes hand in hand)...I have not got a problem with that...My problem is that they cannot seem to fight the battle as it actually is now...they seem.to re fight the battle of the past , in the terms of the past....and , for me, they come over as a backward looking , griping, moaning party, bearing grudges and grievances,portraying the working class as victims...no vision , no inspiration, no aspiration....I'm sure that you will claim and cite otherwise...but that's how I believe that they come over...and I don't just blame the press. I agree with most of what Clare Fox says in this interview I agree they came over wrong, and you're right, I don't think they seemed like a moaning party, certainly not anything that didn't need moaning about. I think their manifesto was full of aspiration and hopeful things, too many, if anything, for their credibility. I don't think it's just the press either, I just don't think the UK population is looking for a party that does what Labour offered. I think we showed ourselves to be a virtue-signalling nation actually, who generally decries huge societal issues but doesn't try hugely to solve it. Even Brexit was a vote in which people accepted it wouldn't solve problems. We're a nation whereby a large number of people think that a person getting something good that they don't deserve is worse than a person in need not getting what they need. That's partly why our benefit system is so knackered in my view. Honestly, as many issues as Labour had, the Tories had just as many, their leader literally hid in a fridge to avoid questions. The media did put a lot of shit to Labour, but the reason it worked is because people wanted to hear it and didn't want to hear it about the Tories. We're simply not that left-wing a country anymore, certainly not socially.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 4, 2020 17:56:54 GMT
You'll have to explain that to me Momo....it seems to have nothing to do with my post.except you have done exactly what I said about a moaning, griping Labour party, offering very little that is positive....I think that the Clare Fox interview would be worth watching....of course I think that you would dismiss what she is saying, but she is hardly one of the Burlington club. So youâd prefer to lied to than be told the truth. Thatâs a bit childish or is it something else... I prefer the truth myself....actually that is part of what Clare Fox is talking about....much more representative of what's going on politically than the current Labour party No real need for the insults again though Bath, is there? You illustrate precisely what I, and people like Fox , allude to. Unfortunately, I think that you represent what recent Labour stand for,part of the problem. It's a big ask , but let's hope Starmer surprises a few people , including me.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 4, 2020 17:57:35 GMT
Imagine being working class and falling hook line and sinker for Cummings' horse spunk đ
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 4, 2020 17:58:05 GMT
The Oatcake's foremost rantboy Duchy is a rentboy!?! Whoâd a thunk it... is he high or low rent... You certainly don't do " the cause" any favours.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 4, 2020 17:59:47 GMT
Lil, there is always a battle for justice and fairness. In the UK in particular this has cemented in a class battle. In one sense I agree, it is a constant battle that each age and generation has to fight( as is the battle for democracy, which goes hand in hand)...I have not got a problem with that...My problem is that they cannot seem to fight the battle as it actually is now...they seem.to re fight the battle of the past , in the terms of the past....and , for me, they come over as a backward looking , griping, moaning party, bearing grudges and grievances,portraying the working class as victims...no vision , no inspiration, no aspiration....I'm sure that you will claim and cite otherwise...but that's how I believe that they come over...and I don't just blame the press. I agree with most of what Clare Fox says in this interview I agree they came over wrong, and you're right, I don't think they seemed like a moaning party, certainly not anything that didn't need moaning about. I think their manifesto was full of aspiration and hopeful things, too many, if anything, for their credibility. I don't think it's just the press either, I just don't think the UK population is looking for a party that does what Labour offered. I think we showed ourselves to be a virtue-signalling nation actually, who generally decries huge societal issues but doesn't try hugely to solve it. Even Brexit was a vote in which people accepted it wouldn't solve problems. We're a nation whereby a large number of people think that a person getting something good that they don't deserve is worse than a person in need not getting what they need. That's partly why our benefit system is so knackered in my view. Honestly, as many issues as Labour had, the Tories had just as many, their leader literally hid in a fridge to avoid questions. The media did put a lot of shit to Labour, but the reason it worked is because people wanted to hear it and didn't want to hear it about the Tories. We're simply not that left-wing a country anymore, certainly not socially. As the best apologist for the left on here, by far in my opinion, I would value your opinion on the Fox video , Lil
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Post by wagsastokie on Apr 4, 2020 18:04:16 GMT
Imagine being working class and falling hook line and sinker for Cummings' horse spunk đ
Well he must have a big set of bollocks Because a awful lot of them swallowed it
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Apr 4, 2020 18:25:26 GMT
I think we showed ourselves to be a virtue-signalling nation actually, who generally decries huge societal issues but doesn't try hugely to solve it. We're a nation whereby a large number of people think that a person getting something good that they don't deserve is worse than a person in need not getting what they need.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 4, 2020 18:26:26 GMT
I agree they came over wrong, and you're right, I don't think they seemed like a moaning party, certainly not anything that didn't need moaning about. I think their manifesto was full of aspiration and hopeful things, too many, if anything, for their credibility. I don't think it's just the press either, I just don't think the UK population is looking for a party that does what Labour offered. I think we showed ourselves to be a virtue-signalling nation actually, who generally decries huge societal issues but doesn't try hugely to solve it. Even Brexit was a vote in which people accepted it wouldn't solve problems. We're a nation whereby a large number of people think that a person getting something good that they don't deserve is worse than a person in need not getting what they need. That's partly why our benefit system is so knackered in my view. Honestly, as many issues as Labour had, the Tories had just as many, their leader literally hid in a fridge to avoid questions. The media did put a lot of shit to Labour, but the reason it worked is because people wanted to hear it and didn't want to hear it about the Tories. We're simply not that left-wing a country anymore, certainly not socially. As the best apologist for the left on here, by far in my opinion, I would value your opinion on the Fox video , Lil It's just agenda driven nonsense bjr
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 4, 2020 18:39:53 GMT
As the best apologist for the left on here, by far in my opinion, I would value your opinion on the Fox video , Lil It's just agenda driven nonsense bjr I'm sorry Momo, I still don't get you. I guess most people in politics have some sort of agenda. Fox strikes me as someone at least who has sincere deeply held beliefs. In my opinion she isnt stupid, isn't afraid of sticking her neck out for her beliefs,calls herself a Trotskyite...but is critical of the direction of the " left"....Labour could do a lot worse than taking the " advice" she gives in the video, in my opinion...I thought this particular thread was about the leadership of the Labour party....not about how lying and deceitful the Tories are?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 4, 2020 18:53:19 GMT
It's just agenda driven nonsense bjr I'm sorry Momo, I still don't get you. I guess most people in politics have some sort of agenda. Fox strikes me as someone at least who is sincere deeply held beliefs. In my opinion she isnt stupid, isn't afraid of sticking her neck out for her beliefs,calls herself a Trotskyite...but is critical of the direction of the " left"....Labour could do a lot worse than taking the " advice" she gives in the video, in my opinion...I thought this particular thread was about the leadership of the Labour party....not about how lying and deceitful the Tories are? She's certainly not stupid but entirely agenda driven.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 4, 2020 18:56:54 GMT
Duchy is a rentboy!?! Whoâd a thunk it... is he high or low rent... You certainly don't do " the cause" any favours. Bath's being losing it for awhile now. No wonder the God botherer was all over him like a cheap suit.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 4, 2020 18:58:49 GMT
I'm sorry Momo, I still don't get you. I guess most people in politics have some sort of agenda. Fox strikes me as someone at least who is sincere deeply held beliefs. In my opinion she isnt stupid, isn't afraid of sticking her neck out for her beliefs,calls herself a Trotskyite...but is critical of the direction of the " left"....Labour could do a lot worse than taking the " advice" she gives in the video, in my opinion...I thought this particular thread was about the leadership of the Labour party....not about how lying and deceitful the Tories are? She's certainly not stupid but entirely agenda driven. As I say , most people in politics are.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 4, 2020 18:59:11 GMT
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Post by bathstoke on Apr 4, 2020 19:10:26 GMT
Duchy is a rentboy!?! Whoâd a thunk it... is he high or low rent... You certainly don't do " the cause" any favours. Now Now Biggie, Dont be a homophobeđâ¤ď¸đłď¸âđ
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Post by bathstoke on Apr 4, 2020 19:12:57 GMT
You certainly don't do " the cause" any favours. Bath's being losing it for awhile now. No wonder the God botherer was all over him like a cheap suit. Actually, Youâve been so quiet of late that I thought youâd been sectioned...
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 4, 2020 19:16:09 GMT
Bath's being losing it for awhile now. No wonder the God botherer was all over him like a cheap suit. Actually, Youâve been so quiet of late that I thought youâd been sectioned... No , I've got the certificate that says I'm now sane.
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Post by bathstoke on Apr 4, 2020 19:21:02 GMT
Actually, Youâve been so quiet of late that I thought youâd been sectioned... No , I've got the certificate that says I'm now sane. Have you developed a split personality Biggie, are you now both you & Voidy!?! Itâs not looking too good...
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 4, 2020 19:26:39 GMT
No , I've got the certificate that says I'm now sane. Have you developed a split personality Biggie, are you now both you & Voidy!?! Itâs not looking too good... And a few others, including Cedric Felonious the second, we've done a better job of it than the man who can't be named.
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Post by dutchstokie on Apr 4, 2020 19:48:08 GMT
Lets get back on topic.... genuine question to the Labour supporters here on The Oatie:
How do people see Starmer moulding his back room team ?
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Apr 4, 2020 19:57:48 GMT
Well it is definitely a decent step back towards the centre ground.
There doesnt appear to be any tabloid media ammunition that comes with him a la IRA, Hamas/Hezbollah etc..
There seems to be a theme surrounding his background of private schooling and being a millionaire and how this will go down with 'red wall' voters. Can't see the issue myself as they've chucked their votes to Old Etonian Johnson so Keir should be safe there.
Next GE is 5 years away do plenty of time to see what he's about but I wish him the very best of luck. đ
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Apr 5, 2020 6:40:49 GMT
Well it is definitely a decent step back towards the centre ground. There doesnt appear to be any tabloid media ammunition that comes with him a la IRA, Hamas/Hezbollah etc.. There seems to be a theme surrounding his background of private schooling and being a millionaire and how this will go down with 'red wall' voters. Can't see the issue myself as they've chucked their votes to Old Etonian Johnson so Keir should be safe there. Next GE is 5 years away do plenty of time to see what he's about but I wish him the very best of luck. đ Starmer was Director of the CPS when over 150 complaints came from the NSPCC about Jimmy Savile. Starmer said there wasn't enough evidence. He also stopped evidence taking in the John Worboys case because he thought he had enough evidence to keep Worboys away for a long time. People resign for that kind of bad judgement. There's also the little matter of Brexit. Don't forget he was Labour's remainer in chief. Constantly pushing for a second ref and eventually openly admitting he would vote remain. We've got all that to come back. Just you watch. He'll call for Brexit to paused within a couple of weeks. Extending tbe transition. "All options are on the table" etc. This is how uber europhiles greeted the news.
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Post by bathstoke on Apr 5, 2020 6:49:44 GMT
Well it is definitely a decent step back towards the centre ground. There doesnt appear to be any tabloid media ammunition that comes with him a la IRA, Hamas/Hezbollah etc.. There seems to be a theme surrounding his background of private schooling and being a millionaire and how this will go down with 'red wall' voters. Can't see the issue myself as they've chucked their votes to Old Etonian Johnson so Keir should be safe there. Next GE is 5 years away do plenty of time to see what he's about but I wish him the very best of luck. đ People resign for that kind of bad judgement. Do they Wodger? Do they really
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Post by partickpotter on Apr 5, 2020 7:05:37 GMT
Well it is definitely a decent step back towards the centre ground. There doesnt appear to be any tabloid media ammunition that comes with him a la IRA, Hamas/Hezbollah etc.. There seems to be a theme surrounding his background of private schooling and being a millionaire and how this will go down with 'red wall' voters. Can't see the issue myself as they've chucked their votes to Old Etonian Johnson so Keir should be safe there. Next GE is 5 years away do plenty of time to see what he's about but I wish him the very best of luck. đ Starmer was Director of the CPS when over 150 complaints came from the NSPCC about Jimmy Savile. Starmer said there wasn't enough evidence. He also stopped evidence taking in the John Worboys case because he thought he had enough evidence to keep Worboys away for a long time. People resign for that kind of bad judgement. There's also the little matter of Brexit. Don't forget he was Labour's remainer in chief. Constantly pushing for a second ref and eventually openly admitting he would vote remain. We've got all that to come back. Just you watch. He'll call for Brexit to paused within a couple of weeks. Extending tbe transition. "All options are on the table" etc. This is how uber europhiles greeted the news. On Brexit, I suspect he would like it to be done and dusted asap. If it gets delayed, as it surely will, Brexit remains a live topic which isnât good news for him. I doubt he will be retweeting Verhofstadtâs congratulations any time soon. With friends like that who needs enemies!!
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Post by wagsastokie on Apr 5, 2020 7:39:33 GMT
People resign for that kind of bad judgement. Do they Wodger? Do they really Well if they don't they fucking should
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 5, 2020 7:58:31 GMT
Starmer was Director of the CPS when over 150 complaints came from the NSPCC about Jimmy Savile. Starmer said there wasn't enough evidence. He also stopped evidence taking in the John Worboys case because he thought he had enough evidence to keep Worboys away for a long time. People resign for that kind of bad judgement. There's also the little matter of Brexit. Don't forget he was Labour's remainer in chief. Constantly pushing for a second ref and eventually openly admitting he would vote remain. We've got all that to come back. Just you watch. He'll call for Brexit to paused within a couple of weeks. Extending tbe transition. "All options are on the table" etc. This is how uber europhiles greeted the news. On Brexit, I suspect he would like it to be done and dusted asap. If it gets delayed, as it surely will, Brexit remains a live topic which isnât good news for him. I doubt he will be retweeting Verhofstadtâs congratulations any time soon. With friends like that who needs enemies!! Equally though Partick , depending upon how the virus pandemic pans out, and the status/ fate of Johnson , come December he could be asking for an extension ( possibly ultimately ( secretly) with a hope for some version of " remain " ) based upon the state of the economy at the time. But his stance might also depend upon the status of the EU in December.
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Post by partickpotter on Apr 5, 2020 8:07:35 GMT
On Brexit, I suspect he would like it to be done and dusted asap. If it gets delayed, as it surely will, Brexit remains a live topic which isnât good news for him. I doubt he will be retweeting Verhofstadtâs congratulations any time soon. With friends like that who needs enemies!! Equally though Partick , depending upon how the virus pandemic pans out, and the status/ fate of Johnson , come December he could be asking for an extension ( possibly ultimately ( secretly) with a hope for some version of " remain " ) based upon the state of the economy at the time. But his stance might also depend upon the status of the EU in December. We are leaving - there is no doubt about that. But that deadline of the end of this year will surely, and reasonably, be moved. That said, the nature of the departure may change. Maybe the negotiations will be more reasonable, maybe they wonât. Who knows. I think the EU may be faced with bigger challenges going forward. In particular the (minimal) role it has played in the crisis may raise questions about its purpose as well as its capability and capacity.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 5, 2020 8:17:28 GMT
Equally though Partick , depending upon how the virus pandemic pans out, and the status/ fate of Johnson , come December he could be asking for an extension ( possibly ultimately ( secretly) with a hope for some version of " remain " ) based upon the state of the economy at the time. But his stance might also depend upon the status of the EU in December. We are leaving - there is no doubt about that. But that deadline of the end of this year will surely, and reasonably, be moved. That said, the nature of the departure may change. Maybe the negotiations will be more reasonable, maybe they wonât. Who knows. I think the EU may be faced with bigger challenges going forward. In particular the (minimal) role it has played in the crisis may raise questions about its purpose as well as its capability and capacity. Oh, I think there's no doubt for me that we are leaving......but Starmer is a firm Remainer and close to Verhofstadt......the circumstances in December can't be predicted and it may be such that he doesn't stop trying. I actually think and hope that we will still leave , as planned, and it may be given the state of the EU , Eurozone, the best thing that we could have done. The coronavirus has certainly seen the reemergence of the nation state and I don't think that some of the countries will be as willing to follow the rules...post virus emergency and post Brexit....not a formal declaration to leave, just reasserting more autonomy.
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Post by partickpotter on Apr 5, 2020 8:31:10 GMT
We are leaving - there is no doubt about that. But that deadline of the end of this year will surely, and reasonably, be moved. That said, the nature of the departure may change. Maybe the negotiations will be more reasonable, maybe they wonât. Who knows. I think the EU may be faced with bigger challenges going forward. In particular the (minimal) role it has played in the crisis may raise questions about its purpose as well as its capability and capacity. Oh, I think there's no doubt for me that we are leaving......but Starmer is a firm Remainer and close to Verhofstadt......the circumstances in December can't be predicted and it may be such that he doesn't stop trying. I actually think and hope that we will still leave , as planned, and it may be given the state of the EU , Eurozone, the best thing that we could have done. The coronavirus has certainly seen the reemergence of the nation state and I don't think that some of the countries will be as willing to follow the rules...post virus emergency and post Brexit....not a formal declaration to leave, just reasserting more autonomy. Starmer, as the architect of the Peopleâs Vote, will certainly be asked about how he sees the future relationship with Europe. No doubt he will try and keep that as fuzzy as possible, but I suspect he will be asked specifically about Labourâs position on freedom of movement post Brexit. He might find it hard to find a position that reconciles his metropolitan supporters with the lost Labour heartlands in the Red Wall. As to the EU, you are quite correct that it could see the return of more national autonomy which Brussels wonât like.
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